Englands Summer Tour of NZ - The rugby

First topic message reminder :

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hows his lineout work going?

 Master at it prob the best jumper in Leicester including Parling imo, commands it so well.

 Well I think that anyway.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:I see SKY are calling it with Burns and Eastmond to start. Now if this were June 2013 then I'd agree with Burns's selection but that is an enormous dullop of faith and loyalty Lancaster is giving with this choice.

Someone previously said they'd be watching from the behind sofa.........10 pints of larger and a packet of crisps please or as the man said, 'squeaky bum time'.

Well they've all been in training, so he'll have looked at everyone.

A few of us have said previously, maybe getting back into this England set up will do wonders for Burns.

Its seems a far better, happier camp that people want to be part of unlike Martin Johnsons, which people seemed to want to get out of.

Also, Burns actually has a lot of experience being in the England camp. He knows the drills, requirements, and plays. That's quite an advantage over Cipriani!

To be honest, I wouldn't mind either of them starting. I think to beat the All Blacks we'll need some flair and play-making ability. Burns and Cips both bring that, so it's moot for me.

Add in Eastmond at 12 and Care at 9 and you have a strong axis of creativity...i just hope physically they can cope.

Yeh, that would be a rather small backline! Just hope Tuilagi and the backrowers cover some ground to help them out

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:I see SKY are calling it with Burns and Eastmond to start. Now if this were June 2013 then I'd agree with Burns's selection but that is an enormous dullop of faith and loyalty Lancaster is giving with this choice.

Someone previously said they'd be watching from the behind sofa.........10 pints of larger and a packet of crisps please or as the man said, 'squeaky bum time'.

Well they've all been in training, so he'll have looked at everyone.

A few of us have said previously, maybe getting back into this England set up will do wonders for Burns.

Its seems a far better, happier camp that people want to be part of unlike Martin Johnsons, which people seemed to want to get out of.

This all suggests to me, that even if his numbers not on the shirt, realistically we will see Tuilagi facing off Nonu at 12 and have Eastmond on the outside feeding the wings from fast 2nd/3rd phase - or even on the miss pass - which immediately shrieks Smith interception. Go steady Freddie!

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:I see SKY are calling it with Burns and Eastmond to start. Now if this were June 2013 then I'd agree with Burns's selection but that is an enormous dullop of faith and loyalty Lancaster is giving with this choice.

Someone previously said they'd be watching from the behind sofa.........10 pints of larger and a packet of crisps please or as the man said, 'squeaky bum time'.

Well they've all been in training, so he'll have looked at everyone.

A few of us have said previously, maybe getting back into this England set up will do wonders for Burns.

Its seems a far better, happier camp that people want to be part of unlike Martin Johnsons, which people seemed to want to get out of.

Also, Burns actually has a lot of experience being in the England camp. He knows the drills, requirements, and plays. That's quite an advantage over Cipriani!

To be honest, I wouldn't mind either of them starting. I think to beat the All Blacks we'll need some flair and play-making ability. Burns and Cips both bring that, so it's moot for me.

Add in Eastmond at 12 and Care at 9 and you have a strong axis of creativity...i just hope physically they can cope.

Yeh, that would be a rather small backline! Just hope Tuilagi and the backrowers cover some ground to help them out

They already work their A$$es off Eddie....if they are asked to do even more work they'll be crawling off the pitch.

Yes i suspect Manu will cover 12 on defence.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:I see SKY are calling it with Burns and Eastmond to start. Now if this were June 2013 then I'd agree with Burns's selection but that is an enormous dullop of faith and loyalty Lancaster is giving with this choice.

Someone previously said they'd be watching from the behind sofa.........10 pints of larger and a packet of crisps please or as the man said, 'squeaky bum time'.

Well they've all been in training, so he'll have looked at everyone.

A few of us have said previously, maybe getting back into this England set up will do wonders for Burns.

Its seems a far better, happier camp that people want to be part of unlike Martin Johnsons, which people seemed to want to get out of.

Also, Burns actually has a lot of experience being in the England camp. He knows the drills, requirements, and plays. That's quite an advantage over Cipriani!

To be honest, I wouldn't mind either of them starting. I think to beat the All Blacks we'll need some flair and play-making ability. Burns and Cips both bring that, so it's moot for me.

Add in Eastmond at 12 and Care at 9 and you have a strong axis of creativity...i just hope physically they can cope.

Yeh, that would be a rather small backline! Just hope Tuilagi and the backrowers cover some ground to help them out

They already work their A$$es off Eddie....if they are asked to do even more work they'll be crawling off the pitch.

Yes i suspect Manu will cover 12 on defence.

But 23 guys selected to represent their country, that's sort of what I want to see GF!

I know they already work hard, but if there's a defensive weakness anywhere on the field, other players have to be there to provide cover. We've seen it with Quade Cooper.

It's going to be mighty interesting to see how they get on on Saturday. If Conrad Smith plays 13, and Eastmond lines up there, he'll be fine. It is just Nonu that I'm worried about, and Savea on the wing cutting inside.

Its going to be one of the fastest backline's I can remember us fielding in a very long time.

Care/Youngs = both have speed
Cipriani/Burns = both burn Farrell/Myler
Tuilagi dosn't do speed, he just revolves the planet beneath his feet
Eastmond, quicker than all three rivals, infact speed enough to play across the entire backline
May can't run strait but very quick all the same - serious long range speed could cover and exploit the space from Fullback
Yarde, proper try scortching wing.
And Brown will struggle to keep up - would love to see him hitting the line more. This could be the game?

kingelderfield wrote:Its going to be one of the fastest backline's I can remember us fielding in a very long time.

Care/Youngs = both have speed
Cipriani/Burns = both burn Farrell/Myler
Tuilagi dosn't do speed, he just revolves the planet beneath his feet
Eastmond, quicker than all three rivals, infact speed enough to play across the entire backline
May can't run strait but very quick all the same - serious long range speed could cover and exploit the space from Fullback
Yarde, proper try scortching wing.
And Brown will struggle to keep up - would love to see him hitting the line more. This could be the game?

Actually about Tuilagi. He may not have great top speed (it is good enough though). However I remember when he came back from injury during the 6N that they said he had faster acceleration over short distances than anyone else in the squad by some margin.

He is going to be a marked man out there

lostinwales wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Its going to be one of the fastest backline's I can remember us fielding in a very long time.

Care/Youngs = both have speed
Cipriani/Burns = both burn Farrell/Myler
Tuilagi dosn't do speed, he just revolves the planet beneath his feet
Eastmond, quicker than all three rivals, infact speed enough to play across the entire backline
May can't run strait but very quick all the same - serious long range speed could cover and exploit the space from Fullback
Yarde, proper try scortching wing.
And Brown will struggle to keep up - would love to see him hitting the line more. This could be the game?

Actually about Tuilagi. He may not have great top speed (it is good enough though). However I remember when he came back from injury during the 6N that they said he had faster acceleration over short distances than anyone else in the squad by some margin.

It's the power in those ridiculous Pacific Island thighs.

Top speed I reckon May is the quickest. When he gets going it looks crazy on tv. Interestingly though, I remember in an interview with Ashton, he said that Sharples was the fastest player he's ever seen.

Does anyone know how Savea the news is for the big wings knee?

Lostinwales, I think you're right regards the attention provided to Tuilagi. Hopefully we'll be able to use the space this will create - the way Cipriani has been playing off his centres this year I am certain it is something he can exploit.....Burns maybe not so much.

Remarkable how things have played out and how similar the side will be compared to our last overseas tour;

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/181075.html

Shame the opposition won't be as compliant....

kingelderfield wrote:Remarkable how things have played out and how similar the side will be compared to our last overseas tour;

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/181075.html

Shame the opposition won't be as compliant....

Wow. Main differences will be Robshaw (resting last summer) and Tuilagi - the only Lions player to make it (and then he has had a lot of time on the sidelines this season). Lions tours really do take it out of the players.

lostinwales wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Remarkable how things have played out and how similar the side will be compared to our last overseas tour;

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/181075.html

Shame the opposition won't be as compliant....

Wow. Main differences will be Robshaw (resting last summer) and Tuilagi - the only Lions player to make it (and then he has had a lot of time on the sidelines this season). Lions tours really do take it out of the players.

Parling and Youngs as well. The other youngs would be there but for his wifes illness. 36 if you can count him.

What time does the match KO?

Ive said it before, i rate Johnny May really highly. I just want to see him be a bit more direct.

He's actually a powerful kid that belies his lightweight looking frame aswell. Hopefully he'll really gain from this experience and next season with Glos's new team he can score plenty of tries to prove how good he is.

Really Hope Eastmond shows up positively aswell. The lad has so much potential.

GeordieFalcon wrote:What time does the match KO?

Ive said it before, i rate Johnny May really highly. I just want to see him be a bit more direct.

He's actually a powerful kid that belies his lightweight looking frame aswell. Hopefully he'll really gain from this experience and next season with Glos's new team he can score plenty of tries to prove how good he is.

Really Hope Eastmond shows up positively aswell. The lad has so much potential.  

Hate to say this given what ended up happening but maybe May is a little bit remeniscent of Balshaw. Absolutely devastating attacking runner given any space but a real confidence player. He could be a real weapon

GeordieFalcon wrote:What time does the match KO?

Ive said it before, i rate Johnny May really highly. I just want to see him be a bit more direct.

He's actually a powerful kid that belies his lightweight looking frame aswell. Hopefully he'll really gain from this experience and next season with Glos's new team he can score plenty of tries to prove how good he is.

Really Hope Eastmond shows up positively aswell. The lad has so much potential.  

I agree. I think May is a very special sort of player. To score the sorts of tries he does and make professional athletes look so laboured and slow is unbelievable. He had some lovely touches in the 6N but didn't have as much of an impact as I reckon he could. I think he's adjusting to the international scene still. It is faster and defences are better, but there's still space for him to do what he does, and it is just going to take a little bit of time for him to adapt. I get the impression as well that he's a confidence player. One little spark of magic and I think he'll be on fire.

kingelderfield wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I think if England can keep the margin of defeat below twenty points on Saturday, and still be in the game at half-time, then that will be a decent accomplishment.

Can't expect any better with this farcical scheduling.

I'm more confident than that and think it will be 5/10 points EITHER WAY.

It all depends on cutting them down at source and therefore the pack Lancaster selects?

If Marler and Webber are fit then it has to be;

Marler, Webber, Wilson,
 Launchbury, Attwood,
Robshaw, Morgan, Haskell

That is a quality pack in anyone's backyard and with so much to play for.

Its New Zealands first game, there's still injuries for Woodcock and Savea to be clarified and if they go with Cruden then he's undercooked.

Its going to be a full house and the weather is set fair - its going to be a cracker and we have absolutely nothing to lose!

Hugely optimistic!! The All blacks at home start favourites against anyone for all the reasons pointed out in replies to your post.

But if you reckon England can win by 5-10 get some money on it:

England by 1-5 pts is 18/1
England by 6-10 pts is 28/1

bluestonevedder wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:What time does the match KO?

Ive said it before, i rate Johnny May really highly. I just want to see him be a bit more direct.

He's actually a powerful kid that belies his lightweight looking frame aswell. Hopefully he'll really gain from this experience and next season with Glos's new team he can score plenty of tries to prove how good he is.

Really Hope Eastmond shows up positively aswell. The lad has so much potential.  

I agree. I think May is a very special sort of player. To score the sorts of tries he does and make professional athletes look so laboured and slow is unbelievable. He had some lovely touches in the 6N but didn't have as much of an impact as I reckon he could. I think he's adjusting to the international scene still. It is faster and defences are better, but there's still space for him to do what he does, and it is just going to take a little bit of time for him to adapt. I get the impression as well that he's a confidence player. One little spark of magic and I think he'll be on fire.

This is certainly a creative backline and so will hopefully enable us to provide space for the likes of May, Yarde and Brown.

Its a real shame Watson got injured as he'd have definitely offered pace from the bench.

I know the reasons for the oversized squad etc. but is does make me question Goode and to a lesser extent Barrett's selections.

I hope cips/burns and eastmond will be wearing thier lucky tackling briefs cause NZ are going to be sending missles down that channel all day. Lets hope Cipriani v4 really is the real deal this time and Kyle (size deosn't matter ) Eastmond really can punch above his diminutive height. TBH after watching Henry Slade tackle everything that moved on Sunday and still play very well for 60 minutes with one eye closed I would get him in the set up now...you cant teach heart like that.

andyi wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I think if England can keep the margin of defeat below twenty points on Saturday, and still be in the game at half-time, then that will be a decent accomplishment.

Can't expect any better with this farcical scheduling.

I'm more confident than that and think it will be 5/10 points EITHER WAY.

It all depends on cutting them down at source and therefore the pack Lancaster selects?

If Marler and Webber are fit then it has to be;

Marler, Webber, Wilson,
 Launchbury, Attwood,
Robshaw, Morgan, Haskell

That is a quality pack in anyone's backyard and with so much to play for.

Its New Zealands first game, there's still injuries for Woodcock and Savea to be clarified and if they go with Cruden then he's undercooked.

Its going to be a full house and the weather is set fair - its going to be a cracker and we have absolutely nothing to lose!

Hugely optimistic!!  The All blacks at home start favourites against anyone for all the reasons pointed out in replies to your post.

But if you reckon England can win by 5-10 get some money on it:

England by 1-5 pts  is 18/1
England by 6-10 pts is 28/1

andyi where are you seeing those odds? Add's a little spice.

Ofcourse I am being hugely optimistic. The thing is 'I've got a feeling'..........

kingelderfield wrote:

andyi where are you seeing those odds?  Add's a little spice.

Ofcourse I am being hugely optimistic. The thing is 'I've got a feeling'..........

BET365 but they will be similar with most bookies.

EG: You can cover a bigger spread with PaddyPower:
England by 1-12 is 10/1  
England by by 13 or more is 45/1

And they also offer:
England by 1-5 is 16/1
England by 5-10 is 30/1

sirtidychris wrote:I hope cips/burns and eastmond will be wearing thier lucky tackling briefs cause NZ are going to be sending missles down that channel all day. Lets hope Cipriani v4 really is the real deal this time and Kyle (size deosn't matter ) Eastmond really can punch above his diminutive height. TBH after watching Henry Slade tackle everything that moved on Sunday and still play very well for 60 minutes with one eye closed I would get him in the set up now...you cant teach heart like that.

I think Lancaster will be thinking the same. Lancasters type of player that....a battler!

kingelderfield wrote:Its going to be one of the fastest backline's I can remember us fielding in a very long time.

Care/Youngs = both have speed
Cipriani/Burns = both burn Farrell/Myler
Tuilagi dosn't do speed, he just revolves the planet beneath his feet
Eastmond, quicker than all three rivals, infact speed enough to play across the entire backline
May can't run strait but very quick all the same - serious long range speed could cover and exploit the space from Fullback
Yarde, proper try scortching wing.
And Brown will struggle to keep up - would love to see him hitting the line more. This could be the game?

Brown will be fine and that backline has weapons everywhere let's hope we can use them

It just struck me that we haven't seen the new model, strike weapon Brown playing off Tuilagi yet. What they have in common is a lack of deceleration. Manu making even a half break and feeding Brown on the offload could make for a lot of yards if they can get on the same wavelength. Vice versa would work as well - if Brown can run the ball from deep, take his usual 2-3 tacklers with him and then get the ball away, Manu will make holes in the remaining defence.

I think May's problem in the 6N was that he was taking the ball while moving slowly and flat to the line. International defences won't allow him the time to get up to speed in those circumstances - hence his crabbing. I hope that they've used his time in camp to get him taking the ball from a deeper position and moving at speed; if he can do that he will start causing defences some problems.

This backline has its risks (and I agree that Manu probably needs to cover the 12 channel - and not rush up - for the defence to work), but it has a potent mix of players who can straighten the line, players with an eye for a gap and finishers. It is potentially dangerous enough to disrupt the ABs usual defensive patterns, especially as they will never have seen it before.

Does it come down to a question of whether England can gel a backline faster than the AB's experience can adapt to what they're faced with?

My concern keeps coming back to Lancaster. This team selection and subsequent performance will say much about the coaches ability to do more than create the right environment. Is he able to select the best 15/23 and coach a winning performance?

First named are my selections(fit & available);

Marler/Mullan?
Webber/Ward?
Wilson
Launchbury
Attwood/Slater/Parling?
Robshaw
Morgan
Haskell/Johnson?
Care/Youngs
Cipriani/Burns?
Yarde
Tuilagi/Eastmond?
Eastmond/Tuilagi/Trinder?
May/Eastmond
Brown

Mullan/Catt
Ward/Webber
Sinckler not initially selected/Thomas
Slater/Parling
Johnson/Kvesic
Youngs/Care
Burns/Cipriani
Sharples not selected/Pennell/Trinder/Eastmond

Is it fair to say its the backs that are the concerning area?

I quite like the potential forward pack we will field. There is a bit of everything.

The big big thing for me is how that 9-10-12 axis works. If it clicks then they'll give the blacks a game.

But its a HUGE ask to get a midfield like that to click in a few weeks and be good enough to challenge the AB's.

The other thing of course is that a fair few of these younger lads wont have played at the intensity that the AB's do. Some have and indeed have a record victory over them...but the question is how will the likes of Yarde, Eastmond, May cope.

Even the likes of Attwood who im happy to have in the side will not have experienced the pace, physicality and intensity that they will experience on the weekend.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is it fair to say its the backs that are the concerning area?

The big big thing for me is how that 9-10-12 axis works. If it clicks then they'll give the blacks a game.

I don't see the issue being between 9 & 10 as both Cipriani and Burns have worked best with fast ball from their clubs halfs (Peel & Robson).

The issue is definitely the defencive organisation across 10 12 & 13 - Cipriani/Burns with centres Tuilagi/Eastmond?

However make no mistake the game will be won in the forwards.

Is issue is that we will have two players who can;t get in their club side match day squad starting at 10 and 12 for england against the all blacks in Eden park, whatever anyone says we will get killed in this first test. I think Stu lancaster is the best thing to happen to english rugby in a decade but his 'credit in the bank' approach to team selection doesn't quite work when the credit was from a year ago and they haven't played club rugby for while. His hands are massivley tied by the situation and numerous injuries but i would have maybe even thought about bringing Flood for a last tour to cover 10/12. He risks derailing the momentum of the building process and demolarising young guys like eastmond and burns with a hammering.

kingelderfield, we get that you don't like Lancaster. You make the point often enough.

What I'd like to understand is what precisely you think he has done wrong. He has perhaps been slower than some fans would like to bring through certain players - though we always have to bear in mind that he has access to information about them that we don't.

It's clear that he has a plan, and he's built it methodically - culture and attitude first, defence second and attacking flair only recently. But he's had a plan and he's stuck with it (unlike Ashton, who famously never had a plan, or Johnson, who seemed to lose confidence in his). He favours certain types of player, but that's consistent with the plan. He has stuck with players and sometimes with positional decisions that sometimes haven't worked (Brown at wing, Goode at fullback) but at least as often have been rewarded (Twelvetrees, Robshaw, Lawes).

He has perhaps given players slightly longer than he should have when they've been out of form (Ashton) but then he emphasises players playing within a system and it's the flip side of loyalty. I can also see good reasons for why he hasn't picked most of the players fans clamour to see picked (usually: defence not good enough).

I guess my point is that he has a plan that seems to work, and while he and the team have been learning on the fly (no option for either of them there) I can only think of one thing he's done that looked instantly wrong, and that was the subs in Paris

sirtidychris wrote:Is issue is that we will have two players who can;t get in their club side match day squad starting at 10 and 12 for england against the all blacks in Eden park, whatever anyone says we will get killed in this first test. I think Stu lancaster is the best thing to happen to english rugby in a decade but his 'credit in the bank' approach to team selection doesn't quite work when the credit was from a year ago and they haven't played club rugby for while. His hands are massivley tied by the situation and numerous injuries but i would have maybe even thought about bringing Flood for a last tour to cover 10/12. He risks derailing the momentum of the building process and demolarising young guys like eastmond and burns with a hammering.  

I share your concerns but believe the Front Row is the primary concern - Marler Webber Wilson have to perform and must provide parity.

As above I would select Cipriani over Burns obviously for his proven form this term, especially when compared to that of Burns. I fear Lancester has been rubbing the magic lantern a little too much and believes by selecting and thus trusting Burns he will imbue him with confidence and thus performance - a real gamble.

sirtidychris wrote:Is issue is that we will have two players who can;t get in their club side match day squad starting at 10 and 12 for england against the all blacks in Eden park, whatever anyone says we will get killed in this first test. I think Stu lancaster is the best thing to happen to english rugby in a decade but his 'credit in the bank' approach to team selection doesn't quite work when the credit was from a year ago and they haven't played club rugby for while. His hands are massivley tied by the situation and numerous injuries but i would have maybe even thought about bringing Flood for a last tour to cover 10/12. He risks derailing the momentum of the building process and demolarising young guys like eastmond and burns with a hammering.  

We're leading up to a world cup, Flood is off to France. Surely that place would be better spent giving the opportunity to someone else.

lostinwales wrote:Tuimond for the 1st test doesnt sound too bad.

Eastlagi surely?  

Poorfour wrote:kingelderfield, we get that you don't like Lancaster. You make the point often enough.

What I'd like to understand is what precisely you think he has done wrong. He has perhaps been slower than some fans would like to bring through certain players - though we always have to bear in mind that he has access to information about them that we don't.

It's clear that he has a plan, and he's built it methodically - culture and attitude first, defence second and attacking flair only recently. But he's had a plan and he's stuck with it (unlike Ashton, who famously never had a plan, or Johnson, who seemed to lose confidence in his). He favours certain types of player, but that's consistent with the plan. He has stuck with players and sometimes with positional decisions that sometimes haven't worked (Brown at wing, Goode at fullback) but at least as often have been rewarded (Twelvetrees, Robshaw, Lawes).

He has perhaps given players slightly longer than he should have when they've been out of form (Ashton) but then he emphasises players playing within a system and it's the flip side of loyalty. I can also see good reasons for why he hasn't picked most of the players fans clamour to see picked (usually: defence not good enough).

I guess my point is that he has a plan that seems to work, and while he and the team have been learning on the fly (no option for either of them there) I can only think of one thing he's done that looked instantly wrong, and that was the subs in Paris

Well to start with his very appointment was highly questionable. The RFU was/is a dysfunctional organisation and they, unable to either persuade another English/AP or other appropriately able international candidate looked in house and gambled on the reserve team coach who happily is an RFU man who won't rock the boat a'la SCW and tell them what a bunch of dossers they are - because he is indebted to them for his position.

Since then unlike your revisionist portrayal he has in geological terms charged through his plan!

Lancaster is a naturally methodical down to earth individual who isn't overly imaginative or sophisticated in his vision of how we should play, but has a bad case of playing to the home counties media with his particularly vulgar patronising whimsy (my mother would probably write something like 'some school teacher with a stupid grin wouldn’t stop phoning me till I gave him a line of tripe to confirm to you what a pratt he is').

He has been weighed down by his initial reliance on Saracen based players (as a short term ploy acceptable much like Gatland did with his selection of almost the entire Ospreys team) when he should have moved on much sooner and has been fatally over shadowed by Andy Farrell and the selection of his son to play the baby Jesus. This decision alone is staggeringly bad, not necessarily the selection of Owen, but the complete failure to understand how the coach selecting his son is controversial beyond belief. This decision alone is an outright fail.

His none too prescient selection of bean pole forwards to face South Africa was not unexpectedly smashed from the field. He then famously selected Farrell and Barritt in the most self forfilling expression of failure since his predecessor and incredibly continued to do so. Three sixes when Billy Vunipola was primed to explode the millennium stadium, selecting Ashton till time forgot or at least till Wade was injured, fallbacks for goal posts and Barritt on the bench.

Na he's not my man. Stick him in the premiership and if he doesn’t take more clubs down than Ryan, reward him with a reserve team to coach.

On form I’d take O'Shea every day, though I remember when Malinder and Diamond took us to Argentina to much aplomb so would be happy to reproduce their partnership.

Post script - please don't mention losses to sides depleted by illness and fatigue - one in 10 year victories happen but mean nothing - no one ever mentions the two losses in the previous weeks do they?

Rubbish as ever.

All Blacks v England
Eden Park, 7.35pm Saturday
15 Israel Dagg
14 Ben Smith
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma'a Nonu
11 Cory Jane
10 Aaron Cruden
9 Aaron Smith
8 Jerome Kaino
7 Richie McCaw (c)
6 Liam Messam
5 Sam Whitelock
4 Brodie Retallick
3 Owen Franks
2 Dane Coles
1 Tony Woodcock
Reserves
Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa
- NZ Herald

No 7&1/2 wrote:Rubbish as ever.

Thanks for your enlightened thoughts, perhaps you've somthing to add to the thread?

No, thought not.

You're just too biased. Lancaster is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're just too biased. Lancaster  is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

We'ver all got opinions, so feel free to express yours.

Well the All Black's certainly aren't resting anybody that's a pretty awesome team.

I'm not sure if Cruden has had one or two games back from injury, though I understand his performance last out against the Warratahs was not altogether flash.

I would love for Cipriani to go up against him. Whilist we're all concerned about our 10/12 size I'm sure Cipriani will realise the AB's arn't the biggest at the same juncture.

This has the makings of really great game.

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're just too biased. Lancaster  is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

We'ver all got opinions, so feel free to express yours.

No keyboard at mo hence short replies 1 question tho. Malinder/Diamond Argentina good combo?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're just too biased. Lancaster  is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

We'ver all got opinions, so feel free to express yours.

    No keyboard at mo hence short replies 1 question tho. Malinder/Diamond Argentina good combo?

I think Vickery was captain.....early 2000's

Ofcourse they were previously at Sale together

Sorry, yer they were ok, though I think they were replaced by the french 'genius' Saint andre

kingelderfield wrote:All Blacks v England
Eden Park, 7.35pm Saturday
15 Israel Dagg
14 Ben Smith
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma'a Nonu
11 Cory Jane
10 Aaron Cruden
9 Aaron Smith
8 Jerome Kaino
7 Richie McCaw (c)
6 Liam Messam
5 Sam Whitelock
4 Brodie Retallick
3 Owen Franks
2 Dane Coles
1 Tony Woodcock
Reserves
Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa
- NZ Herald

Quality side. And we're missing the 2012 IRB Player of the Year and the 2013 IRB Player of the Year.

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're just too biased. Lancaster  is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

We'ver all got opinions, so feel free to express yours.

    No keyboard at mo hence short replies 1 question tho. Malinder/Diamond Argentina good combo?

I think Vickery was captain.....early 2000's

Ofcourse they were previously at Sale together

Sorry, yer they were ok, though I think they were replaced by the french 'genius' Saint andre

1 match with someone elses side much aplomb...think I prefer Lancasters record there!

dallym wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:All Blacks v England
Eden Park, 7.35pm Saturday
15 Israel Dagg
14 Ben Smith
13 Conrad Smith
12 Ma'a Nonu
11 Cory Jane
10 Aaron Cruden
9 Aaron Smith
8 Jerome Kaino
7 Richie McCaw (c)
6 Liam Messam
5 Sam Whitelock
4 Brodie Retallick
3 Owen Franks
2 Dane Coles
1 Tony Woodcock
Reserves
Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Patrick Tuipulotu, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa
- NZ Herald

Quality side. And we're missing the 2012 IRB Player of the Year and the 2013 IRB Player of the Year.

This irb thing seems a bit of curse don't you think  

[quote="No 7&1/2"]

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're just too biased. Lancaster  is doing a bloody good job but no matter what you'll never give him credit.

We'ver all got opinions, so feel free to express yours.

    No keyboard at mo hence short replies 1 question tho. Malinder/Diamond Argentina good combo?

I think Vickery was captain.....early 2000's

Ofcourse they were previously at Sale together

Sorry, yer they were ok, though I think they were replaced by the french 'genius' Saint andre

1 match with someone elses side much aplomb...think I prefer Lancasters record there!

/quote]

They certainly lack bombers experience.

At international level I d agree.

No 7&1/2 wrote:At international level I d agree.

Ceretainly worked for Johnston, the other rfu appointed internationally experienced..........come off it Lancaster is so inexperienced it scares me.

@SkySportsNews: England team : 15 Mike Brown, 14 Marland Yarde, 13 Tuilagi, 12 Kyle Eastmond, 11 Jonny May, 10 Freddie Burns, 9 Danny Care 1 Joe Marler, 2 Rob Webber, 3 David Wilson, 4 Joe Launchbury, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 James Haskell, 7 Chris Robshaw, 8 Ben Morgan

Eng bench: Gray Thomas Mullan Attwood Johnson Youngs Cipriani Pennell

Parling   

kingelderfield wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:At international level I d agree.

Ceretainly worked for Johnston, the other rfu appointed internationally experienced..........come off it Lancaster is so inexperienced it scares me.

Back with a keyboard so more than a sentence again! You were just praising Mallinder for handling a game against Argentina over a decade ago with such aplomb (honestly didn't know he'd had anything to do with it) yet he'd had less than a year as a coach so I don't think Lancaster is inexperienced in comparison.

You want O'Shea after complaining Lancaster's England team lacked grunt, something I think we can point out at Quins to greater effect.

Thanks goodness Lancaster ignored all the nepotism calls and did start Farrell as we now have one of the best fly halfs in the world who's just getting better.

Why do we need to ignore the NZ game; because it doesn't fit into the idea Lancaster can't do the job?! Damn fine game thouroughly deserved but if you want to discount it because NZ were under strength or anything like that you should at least do the same whenever Lancaster has had to field an under strength side e.g. against Wales. Although I'm sure if he'd chucked a 20 year old debutant in B Vunipola in we would have won...

Ironically although I think Lancaster is v good I don't really think we're going to beat the best team in the world away at one of their strongest grounds yet you do!

BamBam wrote:@SkySportsNews: England team : 15 Mike Brown, 14 Marland Yarde, 13 Tuilagi, 12 Kyle Eastmond, 11 Jonny May, 10 Freddie Burns, 9 Danny Care 1 Joe Marler, 2 Rob Webber, 3 David Wilson, 4 Joe Launchbury, 5 Geoff Parling, 6 James Haskell, 7 Chris Robshaw, 8 Ben Morgan

Eng bench: Gray Thomas Mullan Attwood Johnson Youngs Cipriani Pennell

Parling   

Sucks to start with a Lion.