Englands Summer Tour of NZ - The rugby

First topic message reminder :

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hows his lineout work going?

 Master at it prob the best jumper in Leicester including Parling imo, commands it so well.

 Well I think that anyway.

I would say that if we do manage a win, every player will likely have played out of his skin so deserves another go, but the bench will look a whole lot stronger with Hartley, Lawes, Wood, Care, Farrell and Burrell on it

Front row: Marler and Wilson are our second choice props

Robbo,

I would suggest that Marler is our 1st choice now. Corbs is probably a stronger scrummager, but will he ever be fully fit for a long enugh period now.

Besides Marler has been very very good in the games for England. And at 23/24 is only going to improve his scrummaging, and he could become a nightmare of a prop to play against.

I agree Marler has been improving every year. Probably is 1st choice.

Problem is we don't know enough about Corbs physical shapoe at the moment. A nice relaxing summer with family on the beach on Long Island, strong supervised personal workouts and - if he can stay healthy - we might have a monster on our hands. But he has to stay healthy.

Not far to go lads.....

40 minutes to haka.

From a neutral perspective Eastmond is going to need a big game. All Blacks will test the 10-12 channel and Cruden and Nonu will test England in that area. Manu has a tendancy to go for the big tackles and come out of his line which could really leave Eastmond isolated.

New Zealand do start slow so that's a plus and maybe will have a bearing on the game.

That said even with the New Zealand side missing some big names, they look strong favourites. England will need to keep it close in the opening half to make sure they have a chance.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Front row: Marler and Wilson are our second choice props

Robbo,

I would suggest that Marler is our 1st choice now. Corbs is probably a stronger scrummager, but will he ever be fully fit for a long enugh period now.

Besides Marler has been very very good in the games for England. And at 23/24 is only going to improve his scrummaging, and he could become a nightmare of a prop to play against.

I agree Marler has earned the shirt, and if Corbisiero has an injury-free run at the start of the season he might have to bench for Marler in the autumn, especially if Marler has another good tour here. But I think Corbisiero is our best loosehead prop when he's fully fit, and actually one of the best in the world.

Welshmushroom wrote:From a neutral perspective Eastmond is going to need a big game.  All Blacks will test the 10-12 channel and Cruden and Nonu will test England in that area.  Manu has a tendancy to go for the big tackles and come out of his line which could really leave Eastmond isolated.  

New Zealand do start slow so that's a plus and maybe will have a bearing on the game.

That said even with the New Zealand side missing some big names, they look strong favourites.  England will need to keep it close in the opening half to make sure they have a chance.

Manu has stopped running out of the line so much, i remember when he came back from injury he was really bad for it. I'd be sending Manu down Crudens channel too.

Will be interesting to see how the Burns/B. Youngs partnership goes.

England has plenty of attacking threats but out scoring New Zealand wont be the way to beat them. Defence will win them the game by limiting the All Blacks champions. I can't see them out attacking New Zealand (with them playing at home). It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

for me its the breakdown, its how we beat them in 2012

I just hope we can keep the score within 10 points

Welshmushroom wrote: It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

Unfortunately today's 10 is the weakest link in the England squad and the 12 can't get a start for his club.  
Optimism anyone?

doctor_grey wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote: It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

Unfortunately today's 10 is the weakest link in the England squad and the 12 can't get a start for his club.  
Optimism anyone?

Despite what Lancaster says i'd be happy with a good performance with this team picked.

Welshmushroom wrote:England has plenty of attacking threats but out scoring New Zealand wont be the way to beat them.  Defence will win them the game by limiting the All Blacks champions.  I can't see them out attacking New Zealand (with them playing at home).  It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

I'd have thoght outscoring the opposition is the only way to win a game.

doctor_grey wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote: It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

Unfortunately today's 10 is the weakest link in the England squad and the 12 can't get a start for his club.  
Optimism anyone?

And I think that's the point I would be driving at. Burns and Eastmond (while they have potential) haven't shown/or been allowed to show their wares for their respective clubs. It's going to be difficult (not impossible) for them to step up to this level given the lack of gametime. On the plus side at least they will be 100% fit so that should help them with the physicality of the game.

I've got to be honest though given the All Blacks lost to England a couple of seasons ago at Twickenham, I just don't see England coming away with a win. If anything New Zealand will have to much focus on winning with that motivation of proving a point.

Is this the game thread? Or is this the one:

https://www.606v2.com/t53934-england-xv-vs-new-zealand-first-test

Submachine wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:England has plenty of attacking threats but out scoring New Zealand wont be the way to beat them.  Defence will win them the game by limiting the All Blacks champions.  I can't see them out attacking New Zealand (with them playing at home).  It's why I think England's 10 & 12 will need to play really well today.

I'd have thoght outscoring the opposition is the only way to win a game.

New Zealand tend to convert pretty much every line break past a certain point. NH sides just are not generally that clinical. The point I'm making is that yes they will have to score points to win but if they try to go all out attack I think it will end badly given the All Blacks are probably the best counter attacking team in World Rugby. Like I said, defence will be key in the sense they don't want to give the All Blacks any soft points.

Rugby Fan wrote:Is this the game thread? Or is this the one:

https://www.606v2.com/t53934-england-xv-vs-new-zealand-first-test

Maybe we  should use robshaw4england's one above. (don't think we should merge them)

This is the more general England team news one... the tour build up, player selections, intra-Test banter, etc..

Decent showing by the England back. Limited New Zealand well but we're just missing a bit of something. Youngs dropping it for Retallick's pick and surge up the pitch was a huge error at the wrong time, costing us 3 points and a man in the bin, as was not booting the ball deep into New Zealand's territory when Marler got isolated and turned over, leading to the penalty and New Zealand's winning try.

Bringing back Hartley, Lawes, Wood, Vunipola, Care, Farrell, Burrell and Ashton should make us so much stronger and this series could be here for the taking.

My 23 for the next game would be:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw (C)
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. Ashton
12. Burrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown
16. Webber
17. Mullan
18. Thomas
19. Parling
20. Vunipola
21. Dickson
22. Cipriani
23. Eastmond

Harsh to drop Haskell completely from the 23 after how he played, so maybe stick him on the bench instead of Billy? But can you leave Billy out? Tough call.

Either way, bring on the second test.

Bookies have England at +12 handicap for the 2nd test if anyone fancies that.

Luke Cowan-dickie heading home for treatment on knee injury

robbo277 wrote:Decent showing by the England back. Limited New Zealand well but we're just missing a bit of something. Youngs dropping it for Retallick's pick and surge up the pitch was a huge error at the wrong time, costing us 3 points and a man in the bin, as was not booting the ball deep into New Zealand's territory when Marler got isolated and turned over, leading to the penalty and New Zealand's winning try.

Bringing back Hartley, Lawes, Wood, Vunipola, Care, Farrell, Burrell and Ashton should make us so much stronger and this series could be here for the taking.

My 23 for the next game would be:

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Robshaw (C)
8. Morgan
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. Ashton
12. Burrell
13. Tuilagi
14. Yarde
15. Brown
16. Webber
17. Mullan
18. Thomas
19. Parling
20. Vunipola
21. Dickson
22. Cipriani
23. Eastmond

Harsh to drop Haskell completely from the 23 after how he played, so maybe stick him on the bench instead of Billy? But can you leave Billy out? Tough call.

Either way, bring on the second test.

I'd be tempted to leave Billy out of the 23 for this one too. The lad looked exhausted after both Heineken and Premiership finals.

Haskell was immense on Saturday, though he did fade. A great bench option.

I'd be tempted to leave May in too. He started nervously- though got called for one knock on which was not- but grew into the game considerably. He's started backing his pace too and there was less infield cutting!

England call up Michael Paterson for crusaders match

Why Paterson, there are plenty of younger locks with more potential.

Kitchener for a start.

Paterson was visiting family in Auckland
Saves the rfu an air fare
Wouldn't read too much into it
Slater and attwood to start

Okay makes more sense now cheers.

England call up Michael Paterson for crusaders match.

 

Aw now this really pi$$es me off!!!!

You have Stooke, Kruis, Barrow all class players at home...not too mention the likes of Slater already on tour.

Is Kitchener in the touring party? If hes not HE should be going instead of a fu$^&ng aging Kiwi!!!

EDIT:
Why has he been called up ....who is injured?

Just as cover
No injury

Good news for him. His great grandfather and my grandfather were brothers.

Fortunately for England I'm not available as a late replacement this weekend.

Im just not happy even if its just as cover.

He missed the chance to put one of them in for the Baa baas squad...and he then would have had one of the youngsters with experience of calls etc.

Then that lad could have gone out and gained huge experience on a NZ tour.

His thinking is probably that those younger locks won't be ready for the WC next year whereas Paterson would do a decent holding job. Suspect in terms of Locks the choice goes Lawes and Launchbury, Parling, Attwood, Slater and Kitchener......then a fair distance to Paterson.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im just not happy even if its just as cover.

He hasn't jumped up the pecking order, he just happens to be there. Lancaster wouldn't call anyone up if they weren't already on the doorstep. The same thing happened to Nick Abendanon two years ago in South Africa. He was in the country attending a wedding.

I wrote this back then:

With the longer June tours now set to be a regular part of the rugby calendar, a northern player who doesn’t make the cut for the original squad might...consider arranging a holiday with his country’s playing schedule in mind. It might not be pleasant being so close to the action while not an official part of the squad but, if the manager has your contact details, there’s always an outside chance that someone else’s misfortune becomes your opportunity.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/06/14/advantage-johnny-spot/

Ok fair enough ill chill abit...