England v New Zealand - Test 2 (14 Jun 2014)

First topic message reminder :

NEW ZEALAND v ENGLAND
Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Saturday 14th June, KO 19:35 local, 08:35 BST

TEAMS
New Zealand
1: Woodcock, 2: Coles, 3: O Franks, 4: Retallick, 5: Whitelock, 6: Messam, 7: McCaw (c), 8: Kaino, 9: A Smith, 10: Cruden, 11: Savea, 12: Nonu, 13: C Smith, 14: Jane, 15: B Smith
Bench: 16: Mealamu, 17: Crockett, 18: Faumuina, 19: Tuipulotu, 20: Vito, 21: Perenara, 22: Barrett, 23: Fekitoa
England
1: Marler, 2: Webber, 3: Wilson, 4: Launchbury, 5: Parling, 6: Wood, 7: Robshaw (c), 8: Morgan, 9: Care, 10: Farrell, 11: Yarde, 12: Twelvetrees, 13: Burrell, 14: Tuilagi (what was he thinking?), 15: Brown
Bench: 16: Hartley, 17: Mullan, 18: Brookes, 19: Lawes, 20: Vunipola, 21: Youngs, 22: Burns, 23: Ashton

OFFICIALS
Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
ARs: Nigel Owens (WRU) & Jérôme Garcès (FFR)
TMO: George Ayoub (ARU)

We will win one of the remaining tests

I don't think you guys will

I wouldn't expect you to   

Right back at ya. Let's just hope the best team wins T2 and T3 so that we all know where we stand.

Young Scotty has been going on about red head Marler all week...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11272849

"As for the aura, well, one can only assume Mr Marler is referring to the peroxide haze hanging about his hairdo. Nothing against the "Marler mohawk" but when a loosehead starts discussing aura, I'm going to stop listening and start researching the long-term effects of hair-dye use."

Other than that little gem...just a bit more stirring that pot thats been brewing all week...aaah the aroma of the next test tomorrow night...

ebop wrote:Right back at ya. Let's just hope the best team wins T2 and T3 so that we all know where we stand.

yeah..you mean like T1...This is Arnie we're talking here right?

englandglory4ever wrote:

Gunner wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Gee they have a roof! Its not all grass skirts, spears and shields down there then.

Thats just the latest of the ridiculous statements you have made in the past few days englandglory4ever.
How about the rugby game on Sat? What are your thoughts?

Crikey gunner. All jokes are ridiculous aren't they. You need to lighten up a bit. Smile sometimes its good for you.

Sorry englandglory4ever.

Does that mean I should treat all your posts as pure comedy (I'm smiling as I type)?

It seems odd to me that Lancaster would choose this game to test Tuilagi on the wing rather than the last 6N match.  That he's got Ashton on the bench doesn't suggest he has overwhelming confidence in the shift.  Maybe he's just being canny, thought he could nick one match at this stage, but not two, so best to win the last and retain the positive effect during the break until the AIs, therefore experiment in the 2nd test and throw the ABs off the scent before pouncing in the 3rd.  You English are a crafty lot.

Taylorman wrote:Young Scotty has been going on about red head Marler all week...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11272849

"As for the aura, well, one can only assume Mr Marler is referring to the peroxide haze hanging about his hairdo. Nothing against the "Marler mohawk" but when a loosehead starts discussing aura, I'm going to stop listening and start researching the long-term effects of hair-dye use."

Other than that little gem...just a bit more stirring that pot thats been brewing all week...aaah the aroma of the next test tomorrow night...

And that attitude towards LH props is why you got owned in the scrum last week

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Young Scotty has been going on about red head Marler all week...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11272849

"As for the aura, well, one can only assume Mr Marler is referring to the peroxide haze hanging about his hairdo. Nothing against the "Marler mohawk" but when a loosehead starts discussing aura, I'm going to stop listening and start researching the long-term effects of hair-dye use."

Other than that little gem...just a bit more stirring that pot thats been brewing all week...aaah the aroma of the next test tomorrow night...

And that attitude towards LH props is why you got owned in the scrum last week

yeah that and the aura...I mean the myth..the legend? I mean...

I can see what he's saying, that most teams are behind before they even get on the pitch. Easier said than done to get over that, it takes a few times of getting the better over a team.

My prediction for the game is an improvement for both teams. A couple of tries each at least and England falling short by 3.

There are similar nerves to SA last year in Auckland and Joburg. That's testament to this England team and that's exactly what we need in preparation for next year not to mention a promising 4N where teams will be looking to beat NZ and have a good chance of doing so. So thanks to England for giving us ideal preparation for those respective tournaments. There will be no mental let up as the boys know they're in for a contest. Win or lose, NZ needs these kinds of challenges and they're getting them now from a number of teams. That's good for test rugby and you can see the belief in teams facing NZ is rising and that is also good to see. Kia kaha

Gunner, I do like to inject a little humour in most of my posts. After all its only a game. Nice to know I've got you smiling again. Its quite good eh. Now you can put your spear down and relax.

kingelderfield wrote:The more I think about it the more appalled I am by this backline selection.

The greatest ever English outside centre and probably currently the best in world rugby and stewie dicks him on the wing.....yer right, NOT.

This was our 1st and best opportunity to play Burrell and Tuilagi together in the biggest game of the year but dear old stewie ducked it big time.

And when did 36 play last? no worries we'll just stick him strait in because 4 months ago on a different side of the planet he didn't make Farrell look so bad.

Very annoyed but not surprised.

As for Farrell, well I thought there was some very sensible points made about player fatigue and injuries in this thread yesterday, but hey what do we know....

       

Well youve just cheered me up on this miserable friday morning.....thanks Kingy  

Problem is humour, like beauty, is in the eye or ear of the beholder. You may think you're a babe magnet and a top stand up comedian but that does not mean that the rest of the world shares your opinion. The next time NZ play in England Id like you to share your so-called humour with Nonu and then tell him to lighten up. That's a good way to truly test out your humour in public.

DaveM wrote:On paper I think this is the most exciting English backline I've ever seen.

Did you not see last week's team sheet? Back line looked far more exciting (in an attacking sense). Delivered more in attack than anything we saw in the six nations to boot. In an attacking sense the Farrell/Twelvetrees/Burrell combo doesn't inspire. Sure they'll do a good job but you don't look at them and think there's going to be any attacking magic ala last week.

Not sure where the "Burrell has a more well rounded game than Manu" thing comes from. Inferior tackler, carrier and at the breakdown. Equally bad at kicking but throws a few more passes.

Can anyone please tell me WHY the FECK Patterson has been called up ????!!!!

From the BBC website:

England have drafted Sale second row Michael Paterson into their squad for Tuesday's tour game against Crusaders.

"We wanted some second-row cover and, with Michael having trained with us leading up to the Barbarians game, it made sense to call on him as he was in Christchurch visiting family,"

Yeah hes a fu$£&ing KIWI...NOT ENGLISH!!!!!

Kia, we brits can laugh at ourselves sometimes. It's quite an endearing characteristic. We've been through a lot of hard times over the centuries. You banter killers make everything so serious that it stops being fun. You nzers should try being more comfortable about yourselves and you'll find you won't get so tetchy.

Got any funny war gags glory?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

DaveM wrote:On paper I think this is the most exciting English backline I've ever seen.

Did you not see last week's team sheet? Back line looked far more exciting (in an attacking sense). Delivered more in attack than anything we saw in the six nations to boot. In an attacking sense the Farrell/Twelvetrees/Burrell combo doesn't inspire. Sure they'll do a good job but you don't look at them and think there's going to be any attacking magic ala last week.

Not sure where the "Burrell has a more well rounded game than Manu" thing comes from. Inferior tackler, carrier and at the breakdown. Equally bad at kicking but throws a few more passes.

 
Care, Farrell, Twelvetrees and Burrell were showing very promising form in the 6Ns as it progressed. Far more confident about this backline even with Tuilagi out on the wing. Looking more exciting on paper doesn't mean it will convert into tries, obviously as we saw last week.

Just noticed you're from Leicestershire so I'm guessing the fact that Youngs, Burns and Tuilagi all playing for your local club have something to do with your view!

ebop wrote:Got any funny war gags glory?

Yes I have as it happens. But I don't do a dance about it whilst poking my tongue out just before a rugby match.

I went to a Zoo the other day...but all it had was one dog!

It was a Poopie

  

Guessing that joke works better without the swear filter, Geordie

Seth MacFarlane would like that joke based on his last film...

In the interests of balance glory, why don't you use your fellow countrymen as the target of your self-deprecating humour. You've ably demonstrated the ability to laugh at yourself.

englandglory4ever wrote:

ebop wrote:Got any funny war gags glory?

Yes I have as it happens. But I don't do a dance about it whilst poking my tongue out just before a rugby match.

Wow, you're right. You are an expert banterer 

Dammit....    

Yeah replace poopie with the breed of dog...shi zu  

englandglory4ever wrote:Kia, we brits can laugh at ourselves sometimes. It's quite an endearing characteristic. We've been through a lot of hard times over the centuries. You banter killers make everything so serious that it stops being fun. You nzers should try being more comfortable about yourselves and you'll find you won't get so tetchy.

Cryptically, NZ AIs coming up (5).

I hear the England boys wanted to do a village dance just before kick off on Saturday but SL quashed the idea. He said if they did that people would take the mick. Hmmm.

Well there is the matter of the recent congregation of dwarves in Dunedin this week. They said they were looking forward this one. They're ferrying in...something about two birds...one stone?...or something like that. Any idea?

You're a good sport glory. One more please to really set up my weekend for japes and jollies.

That's great news Taylor. I hear our boys can throw two at a time now. The dwarfs really like the opportunity for a chat while flying across the room.

Changing of the guard game coming up here....England by 3......  

Glory, so what Village People dance did the English boys want to perform?

Apologies for that glory'esque punchline. Wish I could take it back now. My bad.

ebopahula?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

DaveM wrote:On paper I think this is the most exciting English backline I've ever seen.

Did you not see last week's team sheet? Back line looked far more exciting (in an attacking sense). Delivered more in attack than anything we saw in the six nations to boot. In an attacking sense the Farrell/Twelvetrees/Burrell combo doesn't inspire. Sure they'll do a good job but you don't look at them and think there's going to be any attacking magic ala last week.

Not sure where the "Burrell has a more well rounded game than Manu" thing comes from. Inferior tackler, carrier and at the breakdown. Equally bad at kicking but throws a few more passes.

Sam, that's nonsense. Last week England played well but they only had a handful of decent breaks, at least two of which were made by back row forwards and none of which resulted in much continuity. That's not to denigrate the team that played. Against NZ, in NZ, with very inexperienced combinations, that's considerably better than many of us expected. But it was not showing the kind of potential we saw in the 6N. Against Ireland and especially Wales, we saw a bit of what Lancaster's aiming for: Care, Farrell and Twelvetrees orchestrating a two-sided attack with dangerous runners on either side coming onto the ball at speed.

Burrell is a different kind of player from Manu, but I prefer him at 13 because he offers more variety. No he doesn't have a kicking game - hence why Lancaster wants Twelvetrees at 12. He is not as destructive a carrier, but he picks better lines (i.e. ones that sometimes target space rather than people) and holds defensive shape better. Manu is still prone to rushing out of the line and leaving holes. I had the pleasure of chatting to Ben Kay about rugby earlier in the year and one of his points was that the Tuilagi boys used to settle disputes at school by running at each other and trying to break each other's tackles - and that no-one had yet managed to coach Manu not to just run at people. It was said tongue partly in cheek but he knows more about it than either you or I do.

In the 6N we had Brown and May on one side and Burrell and Nowell on the other. May has not yet translated his AP form to international level, and while Nowell is a very solid player for a youngster in his first season, he's not a gamebreaker in his own right.

Tomorrow, Care, Farrell and Twelvetrees will have Brown and Yarde on one side, Burrell and Manu on the other. Twice the threat, more than twice as hard for defenders to target. It might not work, but if it does it could be very powerful.

Excellent post Poorfour,

I hope it comes off.

The thing with 'flair' players like Manu is what they do doesnt always work, and its easy for critics to go after the performances when they dont tear things up.

But he does make things work more often than not, and when he does get his hands on the ball his scoring rate from center is absolutely top notch. He can also run around players as well as through them - he just doesnt do it very much   

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can anyone please tell me WHY the FECK Patterson has been called up ????!!!!

From the BBC website:

England have drafted Sale second row Michael Paterson into their squad for Tuesday's tour game against Crusaders.

"We wanted some second-row cover and, with Michael having trained with us leading up to the Barbarians game, it made sense to call on him as he was in Christchurch visiting family,"

Yeah hes a fu$£&ing KIWI...NOT ENGLISH!!!!!

We can't be sure. There is some debate as whether Christchurch, and the Canterbury region, is in fact part of England. Auckland being part of Australia and the us real kiwis living everywhere else.

LIW

Is Manu seen as a flair player? I dont see him as that...i see him as a wrekcing ball like Billy Vunipola.

Someone like Eastmond, Wade...players that have sublime skills are the flair players.

This is why Manu out there "could" work...if they use him like Tigers used Alex Tuilagi...

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW

Is Manu seen as a flair player? I dont see him as that...i see him as a wrekcing ball like Billy Vunipola.

Someone like Eastmond, Wade...players that have sublime skills are the flair players.

This is why Manu out there "could" work...if they use him like Tigers used Alex Tuilagi...

I agree. It's a calculated risk. The thing about Manu is that he attracts defenders. He's like a mini Lomu. He has the ability break a tackle and a bit of speed. You can bring him into the midfield in set play as well. I'm not sure how he is under the high ball or at kicking the ball. I suspect it's as bit of a tradeoff.

GeordieFalcon wrote:LIW

Is Manu seen as a flair player? I dont see him as that...i see him as a wrekcing ball like Billy Vunipola.

Someone like Eastmond, Wade...players that have sublime skills are the flair players.

This is why Manu out there "could" work...if they use him like Tigers used Alex Tuilagi...

Flair may not be the right term. X factor may be better in that his presence tends to concentrate the minds of his opponents, but does lead to some critics being all too quick to criticise when he doesnt smash tackles for fun and score a couple of tries.

I do think the non smashing people to pieces aspects of his game are underated

the teams are picked and both teams, and most of the individuals within them, will feel they have points to prove. the fans are nice and nervous. supposed to be dry tmrw in dunedin.

all the ingredients for a cracking game of rugby.

have managed to convince the wife to look after the boys, and she said fine as long as i dont have any beer at 8.35am you can't win em all i suppose

Game on!!!!!!!

Well said Quins...

COME ON ENGLAND!!!!

Will there be any cables on the pitch for Owen Farrell to trip over?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can anyone please tell me WHY the FECK Patterson has been called up ????!!!!

From the BBC website:

England have drafted Sale second row Michael Paterson into their squad for Tuesday's tour game against Crusaders.

"We wanted some second-row cover and, with Michael having trained with us leading up to the Barbarians game, it made sense to call on him as he was in Christchurch visiting family,"

Yeah hes a fu$£&ing KIWI...NOT ENGLISH!!!!!

Sneaky bugger did a Cross and visited family coincidentally close to the tour. Which he can do. Because his family are from New Zealand.

He'll only bench

ChequeredJersey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Can anyone please tell me WHY the FECK Patterson has been called up ????!!!!

From the BBC website:

England have drafted Sale second row Michael Paterson into their squad for Tuesday's tour game against Crusaders.

"We wanted some second-row cover and, with Michael having trained with us leading up to the Barbarians game, it made sense to call on him as he was in Christchurch visiting family,"

Yeah hes a fu$£&ing KIWI...NOT ENGLISH!!!!!

Sneaky bugger did a Cross and visited family coincidentally close to the tour. Which he can do. Because his family are from New Zealand.

He'll only bench

Slater and Attwood to start in the SR, that's heavy duty!

I think that trying Tuilagi on the wing is a good call, he is fast direct and very strong, but is not a great distributor so to me he has always looked a wing. Don't forget George North played all his age grade rugby at Centre but within a few months a first playing wing for the Scarlets he was scoring 2 trys on the wing against South Africa as an 18 year old debutant. And the rest is history!

England are building a very strong team and we are all looking forward to your next visit to Cardiff. I suspect that NZ will be better prepared for the second test, so for me its NZ by 10-15 points this weekend.

I don't think we'll know if it's a good call or not until the 80th minute of the game tomorrow.

Until then it's just as likely that he could be a revelation as a liability.

Manu Tuilagi, guaranteed to work every time, 60% of the time.

Poor four I disagree with the idea that the Farrell/Twelvetrees partnership has managed to orchestrate an attacking game plan of any great scope. I'll be happy to be proved wrong but I can't see us accomplishing a better result when the pack is still short of carrying ability to provide good ball and the backs have less creative spark than last week.

Our attacking breaks came from Eastmond creating space and Burns playing flat. I hope Farrell and Billy gave been studying the footage of that because Farrell isn't known for his gain line attack and Twelvetrees isn't really the kind of centre to engineer space with clever footwork. Certainly we'll be stronger defensively and Care will give us a spark but until the forwards subs take the field I think we're simply out gunned.