A truly sad day for rugby...

First topic message reminder :

Last year while living and working in Edinburgh I came across a training camp, for juniors, and sat and watched for a while. I noticed a few Scotland and Edinburgh shirts, an England shirt, a Welsh shirt, and a kiwi shirt. Then I noticed the 10 was wearing a Toulon shirt, I thought little of it at the time, but as it stayed with me for a few days I kept thinking about it, it isn't a good sight to see a 14 yr old lad, at a Scottish training camp, trying to impress wearing a French club rugby jersey.

I could forgive that, despite the shirt being quite generic and boring, I have seen Stade shirts for years, so just put it down to Toulons stature, and the fact they have plenty of British players.

Then a few days ago while in Bristol I saw a few kids (15/16) in the city centre, 2 of the 3 were wearing Toulon shirts, and the 3rd an England shirt. On the back of the first child was written Jones, I'm guessing his own surname) the 2nd child had Wilkinson on his, makes sense as Jonny is the English and Toulon hero, however the 3rd child with the England shirt on had the name Basteraud. Now it could've been his own surname, however he didn't look like a Basteraud, and was clearly English through his accent.

Again this got me to thinking, now that the PRL and LNR virtually own the new european comp, and the RFU and FFR are looking less likely to control rugby union, are we seeing the first signs of a champions league style culture, where there is the dominant league that attracts players from all over the world, and the lesser leagues that essentially feed into the dominant league?

Toulons grip and brand have been boosted by huge success, plowed with an unlimited cash source, are now exposed to larger audiences, on a higher scale than ever before, and are starting to attract the eye of British children. Are we seeing the start of the death of international rugby? Is rugby going down the Football route of the haves get the lot and the have nots feed off the scraps?

Is it a sad time when british children would rather where French or English club shirts, they have no affiliation with whatsoever, over their own local clubs, or national shirts? Is this what this new competition is aimed at doing? Creating a champions league type structure where fans will support the few teams who can afford to compete, and succeed, because of a lack of choice?

How would kiwi rugby fans feel if their children started walking down the street wearing Bulls shirts?
How would SA fans feel watching their kids wearing Waratahs kits?
How would Aussie fans feel if their kids started supporting the Crusaders?

I've been pretty critical about this new competition, pretty much because it takes rugby a step closer to football, and is a step closer to taking the power away from unions and ultimately the international game. We've already seen a direct result in French rugby, the poor form of the national team has to be effected by the clubs actions, and therefore the national team is losing support while the club game picks it up, will this begin to happen in England also, some could argue the success of the Aviva has coincided with the poor performing England team which has lacked competitiveness since the early 2000's.

I could possibly be going overboard, but as the rise in club shirt appearances soars in the UK, my opinion on the club game, power struggle and new comp just gets worse, maybe I should move with the times and select an English or French club to support so I have some sort of involvement in rugby?!

As I have family there I have been to the Stade Mayol a few times, the stade velodrome in Marseille a few times as well (never seen so many drunk people in my life in Marseille). Have been to see them train in front of 200-300 fanatics. Forget the money, Toulon first and foremost is a club of the working class people in Toulon, and their owner is a working class chap done good. They may not all be French but there is an incredible team spirit and love of the club from fans and players alike is beyond anything in Europe. I'd get a flight down there and take it in. You'll probably end up sat with the players if you get a seat for 20 euros.......

I find that hard to imagine, and stories from friends who went to the Amlin final where they lost to Cardiff say different.

With Toulon hailed the 'galacticos', the contraversy around how players wages have added up under budget, the issue of 'French/european nationals' not taking NFQ spots, the penchant there are for loopholes and power grabs, and the constant arguing between Boudjellal and pretty much anyone who opposes him, i'd say Toulon are highlighting more that is wrong than rugby than is right.

I love the idea of a local, earnt big, buys his club and turns them into a top team, but this ruthless kind of way it's happened in Toulon is disturbing, especially the way that money has talked.

I really think this is being blown out of proportions, frankly for training I will buy pretty much any top in the sales as long as it is the right size, as it doesn't matter if it gets wrecked! likewise I wont generally wear the new wales/regions kit for training as I don't want to ruin them!

welshy824 (new) wrote:I really think this is being blown out of proportions, frankly for training I will buy pretty much any top in the sales as long as it is the right size, as it doesn't matter if it gets wrecked! likewise I wont generally wear the new wales/regions kit for training as I don't want to ruin them!

This is my point though, old bargain shirts make sense, £60 shirts worn with pride in a city centre while out with friends is a different story. Kids don't wear clothes at that age they are not proud of, especially when in groups and socialising.

Neutralee wrote:I find that hard to imagine, and stories from friends who went to the Amlin final where they lost to Cardiff say different.

With Toulon hailed the 'galacticos', the contraversy around how players wages have added up under budget, the issue of 'French/european nationals' not taking NFQ spots, the penchant there are for loopholes and power grabs, and the constant arguing between Boudjellal and pretty much anyone who opposes him, i'd say Toulon are highlighting more that is wrong than rugby than is right.

I love the idea of a local, earnt big, buys his club and turns them into a top team, but this ruthless kind of way it's happened in Toulon is disturbing, especially the way that money has talked.

wrong. Mistakes early on, but from the last 4/5 years they're a unit. The only tw@t amongst the group lasted a week.

Neutralee wrote:I find that hard to imagine, and stories from friends who went to the Amlin final where they lost to Cardiff say different.

With Toulon hailed the 'galacticos', the contraversy around how players wages have added up under budget, the issue of 'French/european nationals' not taking NFQ spots, the penchant there are for loopholes and power grabs, and the constant arguing between Boudjellal and pretty much anyone who opposes him, i'd say Toulon are highlighting more that is wrong than rugby than is right.

I love the idea of a local, earnt big, buys his club and turns them into a top team, but this ruthless kind of way it's happened in Toulon is disturbing, especially the way that money has talked.

The French don't travel (and it is acceptable to lose away from home a lot).

Last season in the Top 14, Toulon (who topped the league) lost 9 games. In Pro12 Leinster lost 4 and Saracens lost 3.

The French are very beatable once you get them away from home (although the Irish teams have had considerable success over there in the Heineken Cup). Even Connacht has beaten Toulouse down there.

I agree with seanmichaels - if you ever get the chance to watch a match at Stade Mayol take it with the utmost alacrity.

The most passionate, intense and awe inducing rugby experience ever. Made Thomond Park, Ravenhill and Dunedin look like a WI coffee morning.

Neutralee wrote:

Welly wrote:And there is a difference between teenagers wearing another clubs kit to a huge contract in France.

 I think you are blowing things way out of proportion from the OP.

They said that about Nazi behaviour, it was blown out of proportion until bang, there goes Poland.

Godwin's Law dictates this argument has reached an end.

Neutralee wrote:


I could possibly be going overboard, but as the rise in club shirt appearances soars in the UK, my opinion on the club game, power struggle and new comp just gets worse, maybe I should move with the times and select an English or French club to support so I have some sort of involvement in rugby?!

Neutralee wrote:

They said that about Nazi behaviour, it was blown out of proportion until bang, there goes Poland.

I enjoy your posts here Neutralee, but on this occasion I honestly think you need to get a grip. You were over the top from the start and slipping into full blown godwin over a couple of kids wearing a Toulon top has the potential to make you look just a little unhinged   

LondonTiger wrote:I agree with seanmichaels - if you ever get the chance to watch a match at Stade Mayol take it with the utmost alacrity.

The most passionate, intense and awe inducing rugby experience ever. Made Thomond Park, Ravenhill and Dunedin look like a WI coffee morning.

A lot of smoking, a brisk wind, 20,000 news papers and 30 degree heat. Immense.

It saddens me that noone seems to want to foresee the problems rugby union are about to run into, I truly just want the best for the game and domination through market monopoly isn't what I think will benefit Rugby union in the long run

You should change your name to Cassandra. It's so tragic I'm beginning to well up.

I'm going to buy a Toulon shirt with 'greyghost' on the back.

I'm going to buy a French shirt with Armitage on the back.

I've got a Munster shirt I use as a toilet matt, I didn't even have to spend much on it as Adidas have so many of them made in sweatshops that they are really cheap if you buy them at the right time of the season.

Scrumpy wrote:I've got a Munster shirt I use as a toilet matt, I didn't even have to spend much on it as Adidas have so many of them made in sweatshops that they are really cheap if you buy them at the right time of the season.

All contributions are welcome Scrumps!

What do you use the All Blacks, Crusaders & Chief's, Bluers etc. Adidas jerseys for?

I do have a framed Lomu All Blacks jersey in my Mancave, pre Adidas though.

Not a big fan of Toulon but one cannot question the passion of Mourad Boudjellal. You might hate him but he's obviously put his heart and soul into the club. He's turned them from a club not even in the Top 14 to one of the most successful clubs in Europe. Can argue with the methods but it's worked.  Sure it's damaging to French international team but that's not Mourad's problem. If the French don't want to damage the French international side they need to bring restrictions in etc.

Mourad and Toulon also obviously look after the supporters. I say to Toulon and Mourad - well done.  As for the fans - nice bit of banter before the HC final - they are pleasant enough. My encounters with rival fans has generally been friendly banter even in defeat.

Most hostile fans I have encountered were the NZers on the Lions tour in 2005.

Mourad and Habana were the only two to do a complete lap of honour after the HC final this year, for that they earned some respect from me.

Whilst I hope we don't go the French way Mourad hasn't done anything wrong, he has worked within the rules the French have in place.

Good luck to them I say.

Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

beshocked wrote:Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

Hmm, passionate isn't necessarily the same thing as noisiest! Not sure how you'd comparatively judge passion?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

Hmm, passionate isn't necessarily the same thing as noisiest!  Not sure how you'd comparatively judge passion?

A good point, although it does seem that unless you buy out a stadium, all wear the same shirt and sing the same song for 80 minutes you aren't 'passionate' fans...!

True aslongasbut100ofus but you have to measure passion some way and being noisy is a part of that.

Shouting passionately for your team and wearing the team's colours at a live game I would say shows more passion than someone sitting quietly and not wearing a team's colours.

Being visible and heard is important part of being passionate. If you've been picked out of the crowd on the TV you know you're one of the most passionate IMO.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

Hmm, passionate isn't necessarily the same thing as noisiest!  Not sure how you'd comparatively judge passion?

A good point, although it does seem that unless you buy out a stadium, all wear the same shirt and sing the same song for 80 minutes you aren't 'passionate' fans...!

Ha Ha, very true, I mean the fans of the round ball claim us egg chasers are not nearly as passionate as they are about their game because they sing more and get angrier more often. The fact that we have our entertainment on the pitch and passion in our very souls is completely lost on them

Pete330v2 wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

Hmm, passionate isn't necessarily the same thing as noisiest!  Not sure how you'd comparatively judge passion?

A good point, although it does seem that unless you buy out a stadium, all wear the same shirt and sing the same song for 80 minutes you aren't 'passionate' fans...!

Ha Ha, very true, I mean the fans of the round ball claim us egg chasers are not nearly as passionate as they are about their game because they sing more and get angrier more often. The fact that we have our entertainment on the pitch and passion in our very souls is completely lost on them

Well that's where we disagree. I think football fans are more passionate in general - for many it's like a religion/tribal warfare.

E.g. Arsenal fans hating Tottenham fans and vice versa because they support rival teams! There is not the same passion in terms of rivalry in rugby - you could argue that's a good thing.

You could argue some football fans are too passionate which is trouble breaks out.

I would say Mourad fits into the very passionate category.

At least we aren't rugby league fans!   

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
......
I enjoy your posts here Neutralee, but on this occasion I honestly think you need to get a grip. You were over the top from the start and slipping into full blown godwin over a couple of kids wearing a Toulon top has the potential to make you look just a little unhinged   

Get used to it.   

Toulon are the model rugby team we should all be looking to emulate.

Surely you can turn this on its head and say surely its good that rugby fans are not ashamed to wear different nations/clubs tops, I mean while you may not have a tigers fan wear a saints shirt, a welsh fan wear and English shirt, a munster fan wear a leinster shirt etc, it shows that the rugby community are strong together and people wont be judged on what shirt they wear/support. If we start judging then how long till fans of opposing sides are segregated like football, or fans stop the pre game banter/discussion and instead turn to abusing each other?

I know I am being over the top, but considering what has already been written in this thread....

lost

Thats pretty disrespectfull, and this thread has at least brought out a varied debate I havn't seen on 606v2 thus far.

I am baffled by some of the comments on this thread...

'Toulon are the model rugby team we should all be looking to emulate'?
ARE YOU NUTS? By that model every 2nd tier nation would be stripped of talent, most of the 1st tier nations would be pillaged, we would see 6-8 clubs created as superpowers and everyone else fall away. Is that really what you want to see?

'I think football fans are more passionate in general'?
Are you kidding, I have been a football fan for years, rivalrys don't exist today because of football history, half of the fans don't know the history, they just need the rivalry to belong.
Football crowds are louder, but most of that noise isn't directed at support for their team, its about degrading the other team, the players, and fans.
Next thing you'll say is throwing coins, bottles and flares shows more passion!


'It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular'
Your confusing noise, and contraversy, mixed with bully tactics with passion. The Twickenham crowd in the early 20th century weren't happy with the way Welsh fans conducted themselves at away games, they were first banned from alcohol sales, and then banned full stop. They were perceived as drunken louts, for shouting, cheering and creating raucus.

'Mourad and Habana were the only two to do a complete lap of honour after the HC final this year'
Sadly that isn't a surprise, not a lot of the squad have much affiliation to the club or area, except for the big pay cheque.

What I find most sad is that when the Toulon train started rolling many people were criticle, and dismissive of how the team would effect the game, we were told, and i'm sure beleived that rugby wasn't soccer, you couldn't just buy the best squad around and succeed, that teams with passion and relationships would conquer. The Toulon experiment wasn't taken seriously, however not only have they succeeded, they have paved the way for others to mimic, Racing metro followed, Saracens started throwing money at SA players etc.

There was a succinct headline a few seasons ago, when Toulon won the HC, 'Sad day for rugby as HC has price tag'

beshocked wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Can't admire Habana for his dive though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QalzKWdpdyg

It's funny that arguably the most passionate representatives of clubs - Nigel Wray,Mourad Boujellal and Bruce Craig are the most unpopular.

Hmm, passionate isn't necessarily the same thing as noisiest!  Not sure how you'd comparatively judge passion?

A good point, although it does seem that unless you buy out a stadium, all wear the same shirt and sing the same song for 80 minutes you aren't 'passionate' fans...!

Ha Ha, very true, I mean the fans of the round ball claim us egg chasers are not nearly as passionate as they are about their game because they sing more and get angrier more often. The fact that we have our entertainment on the pitch and passion in our very souls is completely lost on them

Well that's where we disagree. I think football fans are more passionate in general - for many it's like a religion/tribal warfare.

E.g. Arsenal fans hating Tottenham fans and vice versa because they support rival teams! There is not the same passion in terms of rivalry in rugby - you could argue that's a good thing.

You could argue some football fans are too passionate which is trouble breaks out.

I would say Mourad fits into the very passionate category.

I don't see tribalism, inbred hatred of opposing fans and screaming anger as passion and I certainly do not think soccer fans are any more passionate about their sport then rugby fans so there our opinions will absolutely differ.

Neutralee has gone and done it now!

Using red text!   

Neutralee wrote:

I am baffled by some of the comments on this thread...

'Toulon are the model rugby team we should all be looking to emulate'?
ARE YOU NUTS? By that model every 2nd tier nation would be stripped of talent, most of the 1st tier nations would be pillaged, we would see 6-8 clubs created as superpowers and everyone else fall away. Is that really what you want to see?

But that's rubbish isn't it. There are only a few clubs that have managed to do what Toulon have done. If that is the scenario then yes your situation above may arise. But if the majority are all as commercially aware and succesful as Toulon then it will dilute the "superpower pool" as you call it and be more of a level playing field.

Granted Toulon have things in their favour such as the Local Goverment fund, but what they have done is a massive success story and is not based on "chucking money" at it. More forming stable partnerships with businesses.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

I am baffled by some of the comments on this thread...

'Toulon are the model rugby team we should all be looking to emulate'?
ARE YOU NUTS? By that model every 2nd tier nation would be stripped of talent, most of the 1st tier nations would be pillaged, we would see 6-8 clubs created as superpowers and everyone else fall away. Is that really what you want to see?

But that's rubbish isn't it. There are only a few clubs that have managed to do what Toulon have done. If that is the scenario then yes your situation above may arise. But if the majority are all as commercially aware and succesful as Toulon then it will dilute the "superpower pool" as you call it and be more of a level playing field.

Granted Toulon have things in their favour such as the Local Goverment fund, but what they have done is a massive success story and is not based on "chucking money" at it. More forming stable partnerships with businesses.

Chunky

Are you mad, 'chucking money at it' is exactly what theyve done! This season is the first time they have run without the backers money being put in, and thats not making a profit, winning both the top14 and HC hasn't proved profitable!!! Building up to this point has seen millions go into the club, every season, toward players, staff, marketting etc...

This model can only be done by billionaires willing to waste a ton of money, of which we are seeing Racing attempt. Not even the financial powerhouses of Tolouse or CA can do anything to match that.
Lets get one thing straight, this isn't a case of a small club getting it's act together, tightening its belt, getting structured and organized, and proffting from that, this is flat out man city territory. A local guy, and thats why he is able to get away with this, has flat out bought success with millions of his own euro, he can afford to waste!

Neutralee wrote:

Chunky

Are you mad, 'chucking money at it' is exactly what theyve done! This season is the first time they have run without the backers money being put in, and thats not making a profit, winning both the top14 and HC hasn't proved profitable!!! Building up to this point has seen millions go into the club, every season, toward players, staff, marketting etc...

That's because they've EARNED those millions. It is not Boulledjal's private money. This is a fact SO MANY people get wrong.

This model can only be done by billionaires willing to waste a ton of money, of which we are seeing Racing attempt. Not even the financial powerhouses of Tolouse or CA can do anything to match that.

Toulouse turn over 10m Euros more than Toulon. CA equal Toulon. Boudjellal is worth a fraction of what the Bath owner and the Cardiff Blues owner is worth.

Lets get one thing straight, this isn't a case of a small club getting it's act together, tightening its belt, getting structured and organized, and proffting from that, this is flat out man city territory. A local guy, and thats why he is able to get away with this, has flat out bought success with millions of his own euro, he can afford to waste!

Completely incorrect. Consider this:

Toulon's sponsorship income per season amounts to more or less the player salary budget for the 4 Welsh regions' European squad put together.

Nasty Toulon being commercially successful. How dare they.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

Chunky

Are you mad, 'chucking money at it' is exactly what theyve done! This season is the first time they have run without the backers money being put in, and thats not making a profit, winning both the top14 and HC hasn't proved profitable!!! Building up to this point has seen millions go into the club, every season, toward players, staff, marketting etc...

That's because they've EARNED those millions. It is not Boulledjal's private money. This is a fact SO MANY people get wrong.

This model can only be done by billionaires willing to waste a ton of money, of which we are seeing Racing attempt. Not even the financial powerhouses of Tolouse or CA can do anything to match that.

Toulouse turn over 10m Euros more than Toulon. CA equal Toulon. Boudjellal is worth a fraction of what the Bath owner and the Cardiff Blues owner is worth.

Lets get one thing straight, this isn't a case of a small club getting it's act together, tightening its belt, getting structured and organized, and proffting from that, this is flat out man city territory. A local guy, and thats why he is able to get away with this, has flat out bought success with millions of his own euro, he can afford to waste!

Completely incorrect. Consider this:

Toulon's sponsorship income per season amounts to more or less the player salary budget for the 4 Welsh regions' European squad put together.

Nasty Toulon being commercially successful. How dare they.

What are you talking about, Boudjellal just made comments bragging that this season was the first time he hasn't had to plow money into Toulon, and they were expecting to make such loss as to be coped with. You realise Boudjellal literally sold his business for about 100m to concentate on builing Toulose, he has invested masses of his own wealth.

From what ive read Toulons turnover was around the 25mill mark, and they made a small loss.

Toulose and cleremont have had no benefactor money in the last few seasons, have a turnover of less that Toulon, and both made small losses I beleive. These 2 clubs have built through sponsors and equities, Toulon have been bought, and have literally bought their status!

I have no idea where your getting the idea of Toulon from but it's pretty messed up.

Interesting - so what drives the sponsorship in France ?
Given all the comparatives in terms of reach, supporter base, ABC1s, TV coverage, etc. then surely teams like Harlequins or Tigers should have blue chips falling over them to pour sponsorship into them, and yet Harlequins are sponsored by an online gambling site and Tigers by Caterpillar but Toulon are sponsored by VW and Stade by the French equivalent of BT. Why aren't the top end Jeff clubs getting these sort of sponsors.

Irish Londoner wrote:Interesting - so what drives the sponsorship in France ?
Given all the comparatives in terms of reach, supporter base, ABC1s, TV coverage, etc. then surely teams like Harlequins or Tigers should have blue chips falling over them to pour sponsorship into them, and yet Harlequins are sponsored by an online gambling site and Tigers by Caterpillar but Toulon are sponsored by VW and Stade by the French equivalent of BT. Why aren't the top end Jeff clubs getting these sort of sponsors.

Check out montpellier in the next few seasons too, their owner is pretty agressive and apparently is about to head down the same route.

Now the HC is tailored toward the Franch and English teams bigger sponsors will become available as likelyhood through numbers alone of reaching the knockouts and finals have increased.

Stade by the way have been a pretty hefty failure, are still losing miney hand over foot.

Neutralee wrote:

What are you talking about, Boudjellal just made comments bragging that this season was the first time he hasn't had to plow money into Toulon, and they were expecting to make such loss as to be coped with. You realise Boudjellal literally sold his business for about 100m to concentate on builing Toulose, he has invested masses of his own wealth.

He sold his business for 40m, and has put an average of 600k in per year since he became president.

From what ive read Toulons turnover was around the 25mill mark, and they made a small loss.

Toulose and cleremont have had no benefactor money in the last few seasons, have a turnover of less that Toulon, and both made small losses I beleive.

Sorry that's Love sacks. Toulouse have the biggest turnover in France.

These 2 clubs have built through sponsors and equities, Toulon have been bought, and have literally bought their status!

I have no idea where your getting the idea of Toulon from but it's pretty messed up.

Toulon have built through sponsorships and equities. Or are you telling me that they don't receive £13m a year in sponsorship?

It just shows that some people have an entrenched mindset that equates to -
team comes from 2nd division now has loads of money and best players in the world = must equal rich playthings

The Top14 is on FTA tv which means they will attract a lot of mainsteam advertisers like car companies.

Toulon gets a fair bit of help from the Municipality - I think I heard an annual 'grant' of 3m per year.

Chunky please re read what you've just wrote, are you ok?

Lets take the idea that Toulon have received 600k per year from Boudjellal, of which you originally said he put nothing in personally. Who payed the 3mill for SBW? Wasn't it Boudjellal personally? Isn't Toulons current playing budget reported to be near 20m? I know it was report as 16m in 2012, are you telling me a club can run when they are paying players 3m more than their biggest income in sponsorships?

If Toulon have received 13 mill in sponsorships through VW etc (of which there are rumours of misdealings) that will be 50% of what they are reported to have earned in one season, part of that would be through TV sponsorship through league and HC that every French club receive,
the figures for this season may start to make sense as Boudjellal has plowed his money and influence in to get them here.

Lets take your 'passionate' Boudjellal, he has become a media lady of loose morals, some of the things he has come out with in recent seasons have been slanderous at best, calling the Top14 racist, claiming referee's are on payrolls, threatening to sack current players and staff on the spot after losses, slandering former players names! And thats not including all the rumblings of his bully tactics, his penchant for legal loopholes, and the rumours of dealings outside of the FFR's stipulations.

His goal is 1 thing, for Toulon to rule rugby union, to change the rules of the T14 and HC to suit him, and to diminish international rugby to suit the club game.

Sounds like a pearler, wheres my nearest sports outlet...

Chunky Norwich wrote:It just shows that some people have an entrenched mindset that equates to -
team comes from 2nd division now has loads of money and best players in the world = must equal rich playthings

Or those rich playthings have made direct quotes about putting money in, and selling their business to play with Toulon!

It's far funnier how a Welsh supporter will fight tooth and nail to defend an organization he has no affiliation with!

I didn't say he had put in nothing. I said those millions which formed part of the annual budget are not his, they are earned.

Neutralee

Saracens did not follow Toulon. Saracens were one of the original teams to go down the galactico path but it failed but now they've taken a different route.

You call Mourad a bully - I call him a passionate individual trying to shape rugby to his liking.

Pete depends how you define passion. I thought passion was to do with serious emotion - either love or hate. I would say tribalism is linked with passion. Might be misguided passion but passion nonetheless.

I would say Mourad loves his pet project - Toulon and has done everything in his power to make it work.

I know me and chunky are having a heated debate here, but the filter to change my word to 'lady of loose morals' just cracked me up!

I think i'm done for the day after that as it can't get any better  

Neutralee wrote:Chunky please re read what you've just wrote, are you ok?

Lets take the idea that Toulon have received 600k per year from Boudjellal, of which you originally said he put nothing in personally. Who payed the 3mill for SBW? Wasn't it Boudjellal personally? Isn't Toulons current playing budget reported to be near 20m? I know it was report as 16m in 2012, are you telling me a club can run when they are paying players 3m more than their biggest income in sponsorships?

If Toulon have received 13 mill in sponsorships through VW etc (of which there are rumours of misdealings) that will be 50% of what they are reported to have earned in one season, part of that would be through TV sponsorship through league and HC that every French club receive,
the figures for this season may start to make sense as Boudjellal has plowed his money and influence in to get them here.

Lets take your 'passionate' Boudjellal, he has become a media lady of loose morals, some of the things he has come out with in recent seasons have been slanderous at best, calling the Top14 racist, claiming referee's are on payrolls, threatening to sack current players and staff on the spot after losses, slandering former players names! And thats not including all the rumblings of his bully tactics, his penchant for legal loopholes, and the rumours of dealings outside of the FFR's stipulations.

His goal is 1 thing, for Toulon to rule rugby union, to change the rules of the T14 and HC to suit him, and to diminish international rugby to suit the club game.

Sounds like a pearler, wheres my nearest sports outlet...

Toulon budget breakdown from French press :

Ticket sales 10m
sponsors 11.2m,
marketiong 4.8m (RCT brand) and restaurant,
1.4m T14 TV shareout
891k ERC TV shareout
2.9m Government funding

Toulon make €31M a year and Mourad hasn't put any money in for years.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/01/3565/toulon-chairman-mourad-boudjellal-on-building-the-champion-club

HammerofThunor wrote:Toulon make €31M a year and Mourad hasn't put any money in for years.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/01/3565/toulon-chairman-mourad-boudjellal-on-building-the-champion-club

Exsactly. It's just a lazy stereotype to label them rich playthings. Born from jealousy perhaps?

beshocked wrote:Neutralee

Saracens did not follow Toulon. Saracens were one of the original teams to go down the galactico path but it failed but now they've taken a different route.

You call Mourad a bully - I call him a passionate individual trying to shape rugby to his liking.

Pete depends how you define passion. I thought passion was to do with serious emotion - either love or hate. I would say tribalism is linked with passion. Might be misguided passion but passion nonetheless.

I would say Mourad loves his pet project - Toulon and has done everything in his power to make it work.

He is an unpredictable nutter. He claimed that the IMF were financing Munster a few years back   

He also refused to play in the new Champions Cup (despite the Top 14 League wanting to). He is just as likely to take the Top 14 (LNR) down as much as the FFR.