Australia vs New Zealand: Match thread, pondering and pontificating.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

First topic message reminder :

It's almost upon us. Two teams geared up for this one. It's finally here.

Good luck to both sides and here's hoping for a cracker.

[Neutralee]

Fair play to Peyper, dubious call there, but at least he's been dubious pretty regularly and fairly   

Games on a knife edge, Aus are 5 minutes from a huge upset, with the rain I thought it would tighten the game up, but it hasn't really.

At this late stage mccaw is starting to struggle, Hooper has been far better throughout in most departments.

NZ have to start seeing mccaw as a 60 minute man if they want him at thwe RWC.

[Neutralee]

Nick Phipps is playing Peyper like a fiddle now!

[Neutralee]

Phipps to delay put in, Peyper calls penalty to Aus... ready?

[Neutralee]

Quick question, 1 minute to go, a free kick direclt in front of posts, can you drop for 3? Or do you have to restart, tap and drop?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I agree Neutralee. Bring Luatua on.

When's Barrett back?

[Neutralee]

Own 22 to win it...

[Neutralee]

12 all draw...

Noone looks happy with that, where are the SA fans?

[Guest]

What an underwhelming game

[Biltong]

Only team that will like that result is South Africa

[Guest]

For sure, SA will be licking their lips.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Well fair play to Australia. You've stuffed us up again with a record on the line. They were the better side in that second half and the McCaw critics will be louder after that display.

Kaino looks to be out with an injury as might Nonu so does Hansen bring in Luatua and Cane or will he think Kaino's absence needs some muscle from Ritchie.

Australia won't fancy having to beat NZ at Eden Park knowing there will be a NZ fightback but they showed they can compete. Let's hope for fine weather.

[Guest]

Michael Hooper is excellent, he could be the next superstar. Quality involvement.

[Neutralee]

Michael Hooper is excellent, he could be the next superstar. Quality involvement.

Hi change of pace, reactions and speed to the breakdown is something else, it really is!

Next week I think mccaw to 6, Smith will be back in midefield.

Aus POV, Charles and Carter were good, Palu non existent and panicy, Beale isn't the 10 answer, and mccabe/Horne on the wings are defencive options only!

[kiakahaaotearoa]

He'll be kicking that chance at 3 in the first half. Could've proved the difference. Good player though and definitely outshone McCaw in open play. The stats will probably say McCaw did the hard graft but he was slow getting to rucks and looked off the pace. May have got a knock to him but he looked out on his feet at the end.

[Neutralee]

He'll be kicking that chance at 3 in the first half. Could've proved the difference. Good player though and definitely outshone McCaw in open play. The stats will probably say McCaw did the hard graft but he was slow getting to rucks and looked off the pace. May have got a knock to him but he looked out on his feet at the end.

It looked like he was managing himself come second half, a few decisions to not get to certain rucks 2/3 years ago he wouldve hit before considering a decision. He does look a little off the pace late on, he needs to be managed better, 80 minutes regularly won't help.

[Neutralee]

Highlight reel at the end tells the story of the game, scrappy, full of mistakes and probably a deserved outcome in the end.

[Guest]

Michael Hooper is excellent, he could be the next superstar. Quality involvement.

Hi change of pace, reactions and speed to the breakdown is something else, it really is!

Next week I think mccaw to 6, Smith will be back in midefield.

Aus POV, Charles and Carter were good, Palu non existent and panicy, Beale isn't the 10 answer, and mccabe/Horne on the wings are defencive options only!

Yeah, he's lightening fast alright and he wears his socks down like all the true Oz superstars.

[aucklandlaurie]

Personally I thought the Aussies could have won that, but when they needed to capitalise they didnt kick on or take advantage......I think they will be in their shed at this very moment wondering, what could have?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I feel deflated and empty. Funnily enough that's probably how the Wallabies and their supporters are also feeling. Pretty much a carbon copy of the last draw in 2012.

No need for panic. Assess injuries and bring back Conrad Smith into the fold. Just a few tweaks here and there and just have to accept that NZ weren't good enough tonight.

Neutralee I remember a ruck where the ball looked like yum yum for a player entering from the hind foot. Richie had his hands on his knees and held off. We looked good early on. Just got stagnant and never adjusted well to Peyper. But hats off to Australia for once again spoiling the party. They'll be kicking themselves they didn't convert genuine chances. I'm not sure who's hurting more.

[chewed_mintie]

Poor captaincy by both teams, poor individual performances across the park (bar Hooper, Read, Savea, Smith) all going hand in hand with a poor ref.  They all deserve each other after that!!

Nerves are still shredded but I'll always bleed black.  Revenge will be on the cards next week big time!

[aucklandlaurie]

Hooper said the draw felt like a loss.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Exactly Laurie. 11 years waiting for a victory and they'll feel how did that one get away from them.

Folau's pass to Beale and passing too early. Smith made a poor pass in the first half and those were pretty much the only open passages of play.

My NZ player of the day was Savea. With his strength on defence, he made some pretty crucial tackles.

[chewed_mintie]

Agree Kia, a cut above all other wingers in the world on attack and defence

[Neutralee]

I feel deflated and empty. Funnily enough that's probably how the Wallabies and their supporters are also feeling. Pretty much a carbon copy of the last draw in 2012.

No need for panic. Assess injuries and bring back Conrad Smith into the fold. Just a few tweaks here and there and just have to accept that NZ weren't good enough tonight.

Neutralee I remember a ruck where the ball looked like yum yum for a player entering from the hind foot. Richie had his hands on his knees and held off. We looked good early on. Just got stagnant and never adjusted well to Peyper. But hats off to Australia for once again spoiling the party. They'll be kicking themselves they didn't convert genuine chances. I'm not sure who's hurting more.

Ye I think he looks a bit more effective at 6 these days, take a bit of anaerobic responsibility off him. That said NZ just don't look the same without him, even when he's struggling.

[Guest]

Hooper at 22 is something to ponder.

[Neutralee]

Agree Kia, a cut above all other wingers in the world on attack and defence

I wouldn't go that far, he made 2 good tackles against a ponderous 12 playing wing, mccabe wasn't in the team to finish, he wqas there to contain, he seemed lost going forward and had no real shot at scoring.


I'd say the most devestating winger in world rugby right now is probably Cuthbert, scores against everyone! North, Smith, Habana, and Savea are all in a similar group together for all round ability I'd say.

[aucklandlaurie]

Merts: "The only winner tonight was the guy out the front of the stadium selling those plastic ponchos"

[kiakahaaotearoa]

To be honest, he's still going to struggle for 80 minutes there as well. If Kaino's out, then it may be worth trying next week instead of bringing back Messam. Have Read, Cane, McCaw and Luatua covering. Depends on who can be brought on as lock cover.

Maybe the captaincy needs to be given to Read and that'll also ease the burden on McCaw. It might also make it easier to replace him in that final quarter.

Neutralee it was more than that you cheeky scamp and Mintie said attack and defence so you can leave out Cuthbert on the latter grounds.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Much like 2012, Aaron Smith needs to be super careful with his kicking and when he decides to do it. He's not a tall man and we had an attacking maul and he goes for the kick and the Wallaby players lift him, he puts in a nothing kick and really Australia should've scored after the breakout with Folau throwing a shocker of a pass to Beale.

He was putting in kicks and keeping the ball in play for Australia to kick out. A good option when executed well but he has to choose his moments.

Thankfully White was even poorer with his kicking and conceded points with his inability to make touch with a clearing kick. Inexcusable for a halfback.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Merts: "The only winner tonight was the guy out the front of the stadium selling those plastic ponchos"

Cheers Laurie. That brought a smile to my face. Merths is class as a punter.

[chewed_mintie]

Agree Kia, a cut above all other wingers in the world on attack and defence

I wouldn't go that far, he made 2 good tackles against a ponderous 12 playing wing, mccabe wasn't in the team to finish, he wqas there to contain, he seemed lost going forward and had no real shot at scoring.


I'd say the most devestating winger in world rugby right now is probably Cuthbert, scores against everyone! North, Smith, Habana, and Savea are all in a similar group together for all round ability I'd say.

"LOL"

[Neutralee]

To be honest, he's still going to struggle for 80 minutes there as well. If Kaino's out, then it may be worth trying next week instead of bringing back Messam. Have Read, Cane, McCaw and Luatua covering. Depends on who can be brought on as lock cover.

Maybe the captaincy needs to be given to Read and that'll also ease the burden on McCaw. It might also make it easier to replace him in that final quarter.

Neutralee it was more than that you cheeky scamp and Mintie said attack and defence so you can leave out Cuthbert on the latter grounds.

Well I would expect every international winger worth their salt to have made both mccabe attacks. The strength he showed on his own line was impressive, but then I thought that shouldve been awarded as a penalty or try to Aus anyway.

[Guest]

Merts: "The only winner tonight was the guy out the front of the stadium selling those plastic ponchos"

Cheers Laurie. That brought a smile to my face. Merths is class as a punter.

Yeah pretty good, but his partner in crime Marshall quipped that the poncho man didn't win as much as Merts did in Sydney this year. Those two are a double act.

[nganboy]

Actually I thought McCaw was the pick of our loose forwards.First to the ruck much more often than the others. He doesn't play as loose as Hooper but that just means they are doing different jobs.

I thought Aus deserved to win - at home, with an average ref and the ABs down to 14 men twice they should have.
Subbing Mealamu for Coles lost us the chance of the win.

[Guest]

I agree Ngan about Mealamu, he's a legend but time and time again his throws stuff us when he comes on as a sub. Mentioned it in the last game he played.

[chewed_mintie]

Subbing Mealamu for Coles lost us the chance of the win.

My thoughts too. This season will accelerate Mealamu's exit from the team but there is no back up for Coles

[Pal Joey]

Glad I wasn't out there tonight. Miserable weather here all of a sudden.
It's only the 3rd time it's rained here since April, Kia. The rain started about 4pm and it will last a week apparently.

Far too many poor decisions were made with a slippery ball. The resulting forced/unforced errors after every couple of phases followed by the stoppages for scrums really made that game very difficult to watch. The game was there for the taking on a few instances (late in the 1st half and even more in the 2nd half) and they failed to take advantage (or were belted off the ball by the ABs) and blew it.

Then again, there were hardly any clean breaks from the ABs either so it must have been a fairly even contest out there and the errors from both sides sort of cancelled each other out.

If it were me, I'd start with half the players that came on from the bench in the last few minutes.
The Wallaby run-on team didn't have the right balance, imo. I wouldn't have started with Fardy, Horne or McCabe. We really need TPN back, Kurtley on the bench and start with Foley for the next match. Kuridrani and Skelton must start to give us more of an initial impact. It's throwing it all in at the start I know but that's what I think they will have to do in order to get some 5-pointers on the board.

The complete stupidity of some of the Wallaby's decision making and the usual wrong choices like trying to play too close to the sideline and paying the price, not passing when it's on out wide and then fluffing other passes with an overlap or a 50-50 opportunity with space to move. It's just so frustrating. And being in front of the kicker. FFS... they almost did it again just after. Unbelievable!

Agree with the post above. This particular Aussie team wouldn't have gone far in a World Cup group match. Too many holes and imperfections.
England would chew them up and spit them out (on tonight's performance) and deservedly so. SA would have given them a very severe mauling too.  In fact, unless there is some drastic change they will be typically embarrassed next weekend at Eden Park yet again.

Credit to the ABs for that committed defence on their line - how didn't Charles(?) score. All he had to do was dummy, head down and burrow and he would have slid over and scored if he could keep hold of the ball. Probably the worst "centre" display I've seen in ages. Get him off, please. 

As you say, kia - it's a bit unfair to be subjected to that sort of thing. I'm glad I didn't go out there tonight.  

[Guest]

Hey LB, you guys are on the up and I reckon despite the annoying draw you guys will be thinking (deep down) that we got something good going on here. The only back play I recall in that game came from Oz. Scrum seems ok to.

[Pal Joey]

I guess they simply need more game time, ebop.

We need more meat in there of course but also some brains... skill and experience.
Some of these guys hardly have any caps though. It's tough for us.

They'll also need to keep their confidence up too (it can all evaporate next match if they get hammered at EP) so I still think there are some obvious frailties to be exposed by more dominant teams. It always annoys me that they can't seem to consistently counter-act certain scrum skills and end up giving away the penalty. However, I'm not sure we had the best possible team out there tonight. So yeah, it wasn't too bad tonight considering that.

[bedfordwelsh]

Didn't see any of game so lets have the shortened version anyone - NZ played badly, or Australia getting their act together?

[Neutralee]

Didn't see any of game so lets have the shortened version anyone - NZ played badly, or Australia getting their act together?

Probably both and neither!

Aus the better team second half and shouldve won, but the backline play was awfull. 2 NZ yellow cards gave Aus the opportunity.

NZ didn't look like sniffing a try at all.

Unforced errors, rust mistakes and a ropy reffing display.

You missed nothing, however I really enjoyed the game from a neutral perspective.

[kingraf]

Anyway, I'm backing Argentina to finally sneak one through us today. The weather is atrocious... We're about to be burgled

[emack2]

Appalling conditions,ability of teams under the pump at Scrum time to milk penalties
proven again.After the hype a poor match but on balance a fair result. OZ setpiece
still wobbly Hooper is the best 7 in the World currently,McCaw has morphed into a
grafter.
Cane isn`t in the same class,Todd given a chance could be. SA just finished crept
home versus Argentina in wet conditions too.
NO team has a massive advantage yet for AB`S no record but still only lost one
game in 2 years.
A Yellow Card is supposedly worth 10points so OZ left a lot on the park a win at
Eden Park means the Bledisloe retained.
Hooray looks like a return to traditional 3Ns/4Ns as predicted where nothing can be taken for granted.

[Cyril]

I'm still not sure why people keep talking about this test winning-streak record being possibly broken today. Cyprus hold the record of 23.

Why does that always get forgotten?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

It doesn't. If you read the fine print it sees tier-one team record streak.

[Cyril]

It doesn't. If you read the fine print it sees tier-one team record streak.

I'm thinking more of commentators, pundits and the media who never seem to mention it being a Tier 1 (and not overall) Test record.

[Neutralee]

It doesn't. If you read the fine print it sees tier-one team record streak.

I'm thinking more of commentators, pundits and the media who never seem to mention it being a Tier 1 (and not overall) Test record.

In fairness the comentators did mention it being Tier 1 today... A LOT!

But it is a valid point, this tier 1 nonsense doesn't apply, you hold a record or you don't, the trick to not allowing the likes of Cyprus to win 23 in a row is to pit them against tougher opposition now and then.

[disneychilly]

Just wondering how many world cup qualifiers Cyprus has played, if any?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I don't think AIG plan any games there after its banks were fleeced of money...

[aucklandlaurie]

I'm still not sure why people keep talking about this test winning-streak record being possibly broken today. Cyprus hold the record of 23.

Why does that always get forgotten?

Its not forgotten, its because the All blacks are too scared to play Cyprus, so we purposely dont mention it. There that should make you happy Cyril.

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