Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread V - The Fun Continues

[IanBru]

First topic message reminder :

Banter through the ages:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv

Well friends, the pre-season has come and gone, now things get real.

A. Edinburgh Rugby


1. Pre-Season

Edinburgh 10-11 Leicester Tigers
Edinburgh 21-15 Newcastle Falcons

2. Results
Munster 13-14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 13-14 Connacht
Ospreys 62-13 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 20-20 Scarlets
Ulster 30-0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24-10 Newport Gwent Dragons
Bordeaux-Bègles 13-15 Edinburgh

3. Upcoming Fixtures

Friday 24 Oct 2014 - 19:45 (TBC)
Lyon   (H)   -   European Rugby Challenge Cup

B. Glasgow Warriors


1. Pre-Season Results
Glasgow Warriors 23-24 Harlequins
London Scottish 19-38 Glasgow Warriors

2. Results
Glasgow Warriors 22-20 Leinster
Cardiff Blues 12-33 Glasgow Warriors
Newport Gwent Dragons 13-33 Glasgow Warriors
Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht
Benetton Treviso 23-40 Glasgow Warriors
Ulster 29-9 Glasgow Warriors


3. Upcoming Fixtures

Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 15:15 (Live on BT Sport 2)
Bath   (H)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Sat 25 Oct 2014 - 18:15 (Live on Sky Sports)
Montpellier Herault   (A)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Any and all discussion of things rugby-related is welcome. Restaurant recommendations are openly sought. Introductions to eligible young people would be fantastic. Bullying, jingoism, and wang-measuring is not on.

We need to move forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

[RDW]

A 1 week ban is pretty much an acknowledgment that it wasn't a red, but they didn't want to make a dangerous precedent on stamping by letting him off with it.

[George Carlin]

...and also, I feel, an acknowledgment that Rhys Thomas is an enormous jessie.

[madmaccas]

There is something wrong at Edinburgh. Something very wrong! It needs to be sorted out ASAP.

I don't know if it is the management, the coaching or the players. We're going backwards fast and it doesn't look like sorting itself any time soon!

The more teamsheets I see the more it seems to be the quality of players. Would Atkins, Toolis, Strauss, McLennan, Beard, Atkins, Hilterbrand or Coman get a starting spot in any other Pro12 team? I doubt many of them would even be starters in the English Championship.

I think the Glasgow 'A' team would beat Edinburgh at the moment.

Yes they're missing guys like Scott and Denton, but they wouldn't have changed many results on their own. Unless the squad develops some kind of siege mentality I think this season could become very ugly indeed.

[Majestic83]

There is something wrong at Edinburgh. Something very wrong! It needs to be sorted out ASAP.

I don't know if it is the management, the coaching or the players. We're going backwards fast and it doesn't look like sorting itself any time soon!

The more teamsheets I see the more it seems to be the quality of players. Would Atkins, Toolis, Strauss, McLennan, Beard, Atkins, Hilterbrand or Coman get a starting spot in any other Pro12 team? I doubt many of them would even be starters in the English Championship.

I think the Glasgow 'A' team would beat Edinburgh at the moment.

Yes they're missing guys like Scott and Denton, but they wouldn't have changed many results on their own. Unless the squad develops some kind of siege mentality I think this season could become very ugly indeed.

I would agree the quality of player that is at Edinburgh has a lot to do with it but I would say part of the problem is Solomons. Was not a fan of him before he came to Edinburgh having seen what he did to Northampton when he was there and wouldn't say my opinion has changed. He is very stubborn and isn't one for listening to players if they disagree with him or have opinions and ideas.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

A 1 week ban is pretty much an acknowledgment that it wasn't a red, but they didn't want to make a dangerous precedent on stamping by letting him off with it.

Understandable, albeit frustrating that he has to serve a ban for what was at worst a YC offence. As you say a dangerous precedent would have been set with no ban, but if that is a one game ban (after already being punished during the match) then there are going to be some seriously long bans dished out this season.

Did they ever mention why the TMO did not answer fully the question the Ref asked?

[RDW]

There is something wrong at Edinburgh. Something very wrong! It needs to be sorted out ASAP.

I don't know if it is the management, the coaching or the players. We're going backwards fast and it doesn't look like sorting itself any time soon!

The more teamsheets I see the more it seems to be the quality of players. Would Atkins, Toolis, Strauss, McLennan, Beard, Atkins, Hilterbrand or Coman get a starting spot in any other Pro12 team? I doubt many of them would even be starters in the English Championship.

I think the Glasgow 'A' team would beat Edinburgh at the moment.

Yes they're missing guys like Scott and Denton, but they wouldn't have changed many results on their own. Unless the squad develops some kind of siege mentality I think this season could become very ugly indeed.

I would agree the quality of player that is at Edinburgh has a lot to do with it but I would say part of the problem is Solomons. Was not a fan of him before he came to Edinburgh having seen what he did to Northampton when he was there and wouldn't say my opinion has changed. He is very stubborn and isn't one for listening to players if they disagree with him or have opinions and ideas.

For those not on the Edinburgh - Scarlets thread, we had a similar discussion and I posted the following assessment of the individuals in the squad:

Here goes!

Key:

(Position) - NSQ

International class (Scotland)

Al Dickinson (1)
Ross Ford (2)
Grant Gilchrist (4)
Cornell Du Preez (6/8)
Dave Denton (8)
Matt Scott (12)
Tim Visser (11)

Good Pro 12 standard- potential International

WP Nel (3)
Fraser McKenzie (4)
Roddy Grant (7)
Greig Tonks (10/15)
Dougie Fife (14)
Jack Cuthbert (15)

Good squad players

John Andress (3)
Ollie Atkins (5)
Anton Bresler (5 - jury is still out, he's had an underwhelming start but should be higher)
Mike Coman (6) (being generous)
Grayson Hart (9)
Phil Burleigh (12)
Sam Beard (13)
Tom Brown (15)

Promising youngsters

Rory Sutherland (1)
Alan Dell (1)
Stuart McInally (2)
George Turner (2)
Ewan McQuillan (3)
Toolis twins (4/5)
Hamish Watson (7)
Jamie Ritchie (6/8)
Sam Hidalgo Clyne (9)
Sean Kennedy (9)
Tom Heathcoat (10)
Jamie Farndale (11)
Chris Dean (13)
Damian Hoyland (14)

Solid yet unspectacular

Thomas Leonardi (6)
Wicuss Blaauw (1)
Neil Cochrane (2)
Joaquin Dominguez (12)
Michael Tait (12/13)
Carl Bezzy (10/15)
Nick Mclennan (15)
Brett Thomson (14 - not seen him play yet)

Not so solid and not so spectacular

James Hilterbrand (2 - Ok in the loose, rubbish throwing)
Simon Berghan (3 - although still young)
Andreas Strauss (12)
Ben Atiga (12)


So from that I suppose you can conclude the following:

- Our best players are generally Scottish
- We have a shedload of promising youngsters. Sadly, not many of them will see gametime.
- Most of the NSQ players either fall into solid yet unspectacular, or not so solid and not so spectacular

[madmaccas]

There is something wrong at Edinburgh. Something very wrong! It needs to be sorted out ASAP.

I don't know if it is the management, the coaching or the players. We're going backwards fast and it doesn't look like sorting itself any time soon!

The more teamsheets I see the more it seems to be the quality of players. Would Atkins, Toolis, Strauss, McLennan, Beard, Atkins, Hilterbrand or Coman get a starting spot in any other Pro12 team? I doubt many of them would even be starters in the English Championship.

I think the Glasgow 'A' team would beat Edinburgh at the moment.

Yes they're missing guys like Scott and Denton, but they wouldn't have changed many results on their own. Unless the squad develops some kind of siege mentality I think this season could become very ugly indeed.

I would agree the quality of player that is at Edinburgh has a lot to do with it but I would say part of the problem is Solomons. Was not a fan of him before he came to Edinburgh having seen what he did to Northampton when he was there and wouldn't say my opinion has changed. He is very stubborn and isn't one for listening to players if they disagree with him or have opinions and ideas.

For those not on the Edinburgh - Scarlets thread, we had a similar discussion and I posted the following assessment of the individuals in the squad:

Here goes!

Key:

(Position) - NSQ

International class (Scotland)

Al Dickinson (1)
Ross Ford (2)
Grant Gilchrist (4)
Cornell Du Preez (6/8)
Dave Denton (8)
Matt Scott (12)
Tim Visser (11)

Good Pro 12 standard- potential International

WP Nel (3)
Fraser McKenzie (4)
Roddy Grant (7)
Greig Tonks (10/15)
Dougie Fife (14)
Jack Cuthbert (15)

Good squad players

John Andress (3)
Ollie Atkins (5)
Anton Bresler (5 - jury is still out, he's had an underwhelming start but should be higher)
Mike Coman (6) (being generous)
Grayson Hart (9)
Phil Burleigh (12)
Sam Beard (13)
Tom Brown (15)

Promising youngsters

Rory Sutherland (1)
Alan Dell (1)
Stuart McInally (2)
George Turner (2)
Ewan McQuillan (3)
Toolis twins (4/5)
Hamish Watson (7)
Jamie Ritchie (6/8)
Sam Hidalgo Clyne (9)
Sean Kennedy (9)
Tom Heathcoat (10)
Jamie Farndale (11)
Chris Dean (13)
Damian Hoyland (14)

Solid yet unspectacular

Thomas Leonardi (6)
Wicuss Blaauw (1)
Neil Cochrane (2)
Joaquin Dominguez (12)
Michael Tait (12/13)
Carl Bezzy (10/15)
Nick Mclennan (15)
Brett Thomson (14 - not seen him play yet)

Not so solid and not so spectacular

James Hilterbrand (2 - Ok in the loose, rubbish throwing)
Simon Berghan (3 - although still young)
Andreas Strauss (12)
Ben Atiga (12)


So from that I suppose you can conclude the following:

- Our best players are generally Scottish
- We have a shedload of promising youngsters. Sadly, not many of them will see gametime.
- Most of the NSQ players either fall into solid yet unspectacular, or not so solid and not so spectacular

Cracking list. Agree with almost all your selections, however I would split the youngsters into 2 - promising and not up to snuff. I'd probably bung SHC into good squad.

[RDW]

I did consider splitting the youngsters, but thought it would be a bit harsh given they are still developing.  As it stands, the only 2 I'm not sure will get much of a chance are Turner and McQuillan - can see them not getting much gametime, and falling out of pro-rugby due to a lack of chances.

Sam H-C has been promising, but he hasn't been great in the last 2 games he's played (not helped by the rest of the team) so I think we need to see him play more often before we can judge.

If Solomons keeps reigning in his natural attacking instincts I suspect he won't truly realise his attacking potential though.  Imaging telling Matawalu not to take quick taps?? It is unthinkable, but that's what Solomons has done with his 9s.

[RDW]

Also, would be interesting if someone did a similar list for Glasgow. I suspect the majority of the squad will be in the top two groups, and can't really think of anyone in the 'not so soild and not so spectacular' group, especially now Barry has left!

[funnyExiledScot]

I see that Sherlock was suspended for a week for standing on Grabby Graberson. That's a tacit admission it shouldn't have been a red card in my one-eyed opinion.

Agreed. Never a red card in a million years.

Of course had it been an Edinburgh player he would have said "Excuse me opposition hooker my good man, sorry to trouble you but would you mindly awfully releasing my garment from your grasp. I haven't missed a tackle in 5 minutes and I do rather require to keep up certain standards. Apologies once again for the trouble".

That's what you call discipline.

[funnyExiledScot]

Also, would be interesting if someone did a similar list for Glasgow.  I suspect the majority of the squad will be in the top two groups, and can't really think of anyone in the 'not so soild and not so spectacular' group, especially now Barry has left!

Glasgow categories:

1. World Class - heralds from Ayr.

2. World Class - good enough to play for Wales.

3. World Class - what he lacks in skill he makes up for in soul and leadership, or some other intangible concept that Edinburgh fans or No voters just cannot understand.

4. International class - so bad that not even Schizoid can say with a straight face that the player is World Class. There have been no such players in a Glasgow jersey thus far.

[RDW]

Also, would be interesting if someone did a similar list for Glasgow.  I suspect the majority of the squad will be in the top two groups, and can't really think of anyone in the 'not so soild and not so spectacular' group, especially now Barry has left!

Glasgow categories:

1. World Class - heralds from Ayr.

2. World Class - good enough to play for Wales.

3. World Class - what he lacks in skill he makes up for in soul and leadership, or some other intangible concept that Edinburgh fans or No voters just cannot understand.

4. International class - so bad that not even Schizoid can say with a straight face that the player is World Class. There have been no such players in a Glasgow jersey thus far.

On a similar note, if a weegie had assessed the Edinburgh squad it would have been:

Matt Scott - not bad, but he's no Dunbar
Du Preez - not bad, but he's no Strauss

Everyone else - a useless sack of

[madmaccas]

Here's my list for Glasgow. Bit harsh on a few players, but they can't all be in international or potential international!

Key:

(Position) – NSQ


International class (Scotland)

Stuart Hogg (15)
Jonny Gray (4)
Ryan Grant  (1)
Alex Dunbar (12)
Sean Maitland (14)
Niko Matawalu (9)
Euan Murray (3)
Tommy Seymour (11)
Josh Strauss (8)
DTH van der Merwe (14)
Gordon Reid (1)



Good Pro 12 standard- potential International

James Downey (12)
Mark Bennett (13)
Pat MacArthur (2)
Leone Nakarawa (5)
Chris Fusaro (7)
Finn Russell (10)
Henry Pyrgos (9)
Duncan Weir (10)
Mike Cusack (3)
Rossouw de Klerk (3)
Alex Allan (1)
Adam Ashe (8)
Rob Harley (6)
Tim Swinson (5)



Good squad players

Tyrone Holmes (7)
Pete Horne (13)
Ryan Wilson (8)
Jon Welsh (3)
Sean Lamont (11)
Lee Jones (14)
Peter Murchie (15)
Dougie Hall (2)
James Eddie (6)
Tom Ryder (5)
Connor Braid (10)




Promising youngsters


Richie Vernon (12)
Murray McConnell (9)
Kevin Bryce (2)
Rory Hughes (11)
George Hunter (1)
Tommy Spinks (7)



Unproven youngsters

Gavin Lowe (13)
Gary Strain (1)
Ali Price (9)
Jack Steele (12)
James Bordill (7)
Scott Cummings (6)
Cameron Fenton (2)
Zander Fagerson (3)
James Malcolm (2)
D‘arcy Rae (1)
Matt Smith (7)
Andy Redmayne (8)
Fergus Scott (2)



Solid yet unspectacular

Jerry Yanuyanutawa (3)
Fraser Brown (2)



Not so solid and not so spectacular

Alastair Kellock (5)

[InjuredYetAgain]

Horne only a good squad player? I think you might be a bit harsh there.
Do Glasgow have a defence coach? He must take quite a bit of the credit for the performances. There is that Aussie guy (Matt Taylor?) but I thought he worked with the national team

[RDW]

He works with both.

[InjuredYetAgain]

Why are we so list then?
Did you see the article in the Evening News about yer man Cramond? Sodding big licks about Accies but only a passing mention about our Alma Mater

[funnyExiledScot]

Mark Bennett not in the top bracket of player. That'll be enough to get ASBO back on here to protest!!

[InjuredYetAgain]

"List"? I am sure that I typed pish

[RDW]

Why are we so list then?
Did you see the article in the Evening News about yer man Cramond? Sodding big licks about Accies but only a passing mention about our Alma Mater

I did. It's typical of the evening news - they keep Brown nosing the big teams. Never mind spending pretty much his entire playing career at Royal High before going to uni - those few games at accies were obviously far more important!

[InjuredYetAgain]

Was it written by Bill Lothisn? He tends to be lazy to say the least.
I remember on bygone days you used to be able to keep up with the club scene as they had articles about clubs team selections ( even down yo our diddy level) from Wednesday onwards

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Richie Vernon, youngster? He's 27!

Think you have these three are all two highly ranked at the moment.

Mike Cusack (3)
Rossouw de Klerk (3)
Alex Allan (1)

Who knows if Cusack will ever play again and de Klerk and Allan have played, a couple of competitive games!

[RDW]

Of course it was Lothian - the same journalist who actually asked Mark Dodson if the BT Murrayfield stadium would have to be renamed in the event of independence!

[RDW]

A game highlights (except the Edinburgh score) at 4:30

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

A game highlights (except the Edinburgh score) at 4:30

As fine a run as it was the attempt at tackling for Maitlands try has to be seen to be believed!

[tigertattie]

See the more I read about rugby in Scotland, the more depressed I get

[madmaccas]

Richie Vernon, youngster? He's 27!

Think you have these three are all two highly ranked at the moment.

Mike Cusack (3)
Rossouw de Klerk (3)
Alex Allan (1)

Who knows if Cusack will ever play again and de Klerk and Allan have played, a couple of competitive games!

That's fair. I was working it based on being 'potential' Scotland players. For the same reason I downgraded Sean Lamont who is still playing international rugby but is on the wane.

Yeah Vernon is a senior player and international but has chosen to radically change position - so for all intents and purposes it's as if he's just starting out.

[funnyExiledScot]

Is Vernon injured at the moment? With Downey joining I wonder how much rugby at centre Vernon will see this season. You'd think that Downey, Horne, Dunbar and Bennett would all be ahead of him, an potentially Sean Lamont as well.

I'd take him at Edinburgh ahead of Strauss.....

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Is Vernon injured at the moment? With Downey joining I wonder how much rugby at centre Vernon will see this season. You'd think that Downey, Horne, Dunbar and Bennett would all be ahead of him, an potentially Sean Lamont as well.

I'd take him at Edinburgh ahead of Strauss.....

Yes, he is out with an Achilles injury.

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

Richie Vernon, youngster? He's 27!

Think you have these three are all two highly ranked at the moment.

Mike Cusack (3)
Rossouw de Klerk (3)
Alex Allan (1)

Who knows if Cusack will ever play again and de Klerk and Allan have played, a couple of competitive games!

That's fair. I was working it based on being 'potential' Scotland players. For the same reason I downgraded Sean Lamont who is still playing international rugby but is on the wane.

Yeah Vernon is a senior player and international but has chosen to radically change position - so for all intents and purposes it's as if he's just starting out.

Categories were too restrictive, I blame RDW

[funnyExiledScot]

Is Vernon injured at the moment? With Downey joining I wonder how much rugby at centre Vernon will see this season. You'd think that Downey, Horne, Dunbar and Bennett would all be ahead of him, an potentially Sean Lamont as well.

I'd take him at Edinburgh ahead of Strauss.....

Yes, he is out with an Achilles injury.

Even with an achilles injury I'd take him over Strauss.....

[RDW]

Richie Vernon, youngster? He's 27!

Think you have these three are all two highly ranked at the moment.

Mike Cusack (3)
Rossouw de Klerk (3)
Alex Allan (1)

Who knows if Cusack will ever play again and de Klerk and Allan have played, a couple of competitive games!

That's fair. I was working it based on being 'potential' Scotland players. For the same reason I downgraded Sean Lamont who is still playing international rugby but is on the wane.

Yeah Vernon is a senior player and international but has chosen to radically change position - so for all intents and purposes it's as if he's just starting out.

Categories were too restrictive, I blame RDW

Hey, don't blame the categories!

[madmaccas]

I thought I was being quite provocative putting Al Kellock in "Not so solid and not so spectacular", but the fact that no-one has flagged this vindicates it in my mind. Lovely bloke and great leader from all reports, but assuming he'll be moving over to a coaching role pretty soon. Has been picked to face Connacht, but he looks slightly out of place in a squad packed full of exception talent.

[RDW]

I thought I was being quite provocative putting Al Kellock in "Not so solid and not so spectacular", but the fact that no-one has flagged this vindicates it in my mind. Lovely bloke and great leader from all reports, but assuming he'll be moving over to a coaching role pretty soon. Has been picked to face Connacht, but he looks slightly out of place in a squad packed full of exception talent.

Absolutely - if the Edinburgh team had half the guts and determination he has we would't be in this mess.

He's just not got the body for a modern day 2nd row - he's very much from the Doddie Weir era of beanpole 2nd rows that weren't expected to make big hits and big carries. Whenever Kellock goes into contact he just crumples - Gray always gets over the gainline.

[madmaccas]

I thought I was being quite provocative putting Al Kellock in "Not so solid and not so spectacular", but the fact that no-one has flagged this vindicates it in my mind. Lovely bloke and great leader from all reports, but assuming he'll be moving over to a coaching role pretty soon. Has been picked to face Connacht, but he looks slightly out of place in a squad packed full of exception talent.

Absolutely - if the Edinburgh team had half the guts and determination he has we would't be in this mess.

He's just not got the body for a modern day 2nd row - he's very much from the Doddie Weir era of beanpole 2nd rows that weren't expected to make big hits and big carries. Whenever Kellock goes into contact he just crumples - Gray always gets over the gainline.

Yeah he's something of a Rudy character, full of heart and helps ground the team, so is worth keeping around for squad 'culture' alone. That's why I'd like to see him stay on in a coaching role once he hangs up his big size 14s (I'm assuming). The fact that the club captain rarely starts prevents Prima Donnas (I'm looking at you Hogg) from complaining if they don't get picked.

He's never been the most athletic but was a rock in the lineout for years when we needed it. Somehow he managed to catch Ross Ford's wayward throws for Scotland and kept everyone honest. It does show how far the Scotland squad have come in the past few years though. I don't think he'd even be 8th choice in his position based on skill.

[funnyExiledScot]

Agreed on Kellock assuming a coaching role. It's a perfect fit.

[InjuredYetAgain]

Can you coach what angle is the best to view a ruck from? I thought that was more an ability that comes by instinct more than anything

[funnyExiledScot]

The key to Kellock's rucking observation technique is to pretend that what you're actually doing is guarding the fringe of the ruck with your hand in the air to signal when the ball is coming out. That way you actually look like your non-attendence at the ruck is indeed a deliberate ploy. That's leadership.

[jimbopip]

So the MFL have a new flanker, SQ, highly rated and looks to be the next big thing: next game away to a side containing John Barclay. Sound familiar? I'm sure Roddy Grant will have been encouraging him in training this week.

[TJ]

The key to Kellock's rucking observation technique is to pretend that what you're actually doing is guarding the fringe of the ruck with your hand in the air to signal when the ball is coming out. That way you actually look like your non-attendence at the ruck is indeed a deliberate ploy. That's leadership.

:-)

[RDW]

Good interview with Andy Cramond in the Herald about his move to Toulon - really is incredibly surreal to think about it! Plus, no mention of his brief stint at Accies

The Stade Mayol, home to European Champions Toulon in the sun-kissed south of France, is a far cry from the cool climates of Rubislaw, the home of Aberdeen Grammar.

For Andy Cramond, a 20-year-old from Edinburgh, the two locations provide a glimpse at just how far he has come.

Two seasons ago, the second row was turning out for his local RHC Cougars in Barton and a year later, while studying in Aberdeen, Cramond played for Aberdeen Grammar in Scotland's RBS Premier Division. These days, he is sharing a changing room with some of the best rugby players on the planet.

"I'm still looking around and thinking how lucky I am to be here," says Cramond, who made his debut for the professional club from the bench in their 53-13 thrashing of Brive on Friday.

Cramond's route to the south of France has been far from ordinary, by all accounts. After Scotland's first match of the 2014 RBS Under-20 6 Nations - a loss against Ireland in which Cramond admits he "didn't event play that well" - he received "a random message" via social networking website, Facebook.

It was a French agent who was on the look out for a second row. "He said he knew of a few clubs out there looking for a second row, including Toulon, and asked me if I had any plans. To be honest, I was thinking if I had a good Six Nations, I might get an EDP [elite player development] contract with Glasgow or Edinburgh," says Cramond.

"Obviously I wanted to concentrate on Toulon and we just kept in contact throughout the Six Nations and got things sorted when I was out in New Zealand at the World Cup."

Nervousness, fear and excitement were just a few of the feelings that Cramond experienced as he flew to France. "I arrived on the Wednesday afternoon and it was pretty strange - my agent dropped me at my flat which was unfurnished at the time and I remember just feeling a little sorry for myself. I shouldn't have bothered as the next morning I was sitting eating breakfast with Ali Williams and Carl Hayman - it was a bit overwhelming," he says.

"Every morning before training, everyone shakes hands with everyone else. On the first day that was pretty special, it was so welcoming."

Australian winger Drew Mitchell stepped in to help furnish the flat Cramond lives in and, after two months, he already feels a part of the club.

Cramond, although signed as an 'Espoir' (which translates as 'hope' and is the title for the club's under-22 academy), is one of a handful of academy players to train with the full professional squad three days a week. Arriving in time for pre-season training, he was prepared for a gruelling time.

"I was expecting to get absolutely torn apart in my first professional pre-season, but it wasn't what I expected," he says. "The pre-season training was all rugby-specific stuff, position-specific games and uncontested run-throughs.

"It's a lot more laid back here, in terms of conditioning and gym stuff. You're given your programme and there are coaches in the gym but they really just trust that you'll go away and do the work."

On Thursday last week, Cramond had his first taste of match-day life with the champions of Europe. A number of injures to first-team players led to his call-up and a professional debut against Brive. "I was actually surprised at the lack of nerves. Brive fans are known for getting an atmosphere going at home games so we were getting screamed at warming up in front of the home fans but I couldn't understand a huge amount of it being honest," he says with a smile.

"It's about working harder now, hopefully getting another shot. Now that I've experienced the pro setup, I'll be doing everything I can do get some more game time."

And after that? Anything is possible, but Cramond's sights are always set on achieving the ultimate goal of a full Scotland cap. "Playing for the national team ... that's something every player dreams of."

[JonnyEdinburgh]

Had email from Edinburgh Rugby saying we have another A game this Sunday at 2pm v Sale A on Murrayfield back pitches.
While I like the concept of the A games, I think this is a bit much right now. That will be Edinburgh had 2 1st team games and 2 A games in 8 days!!

Will probably wander along for a look if my spirit isn't completely broken after tonight. Think if we are to do these A games, why not just do a pool format (spread out over a number of weeks when it can fit in) - say Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sale. I feel it would add a bit more spice at least

[madmaccas]

The key to Kellock's rucking observation technique is to pretend that what you're actually doing is guarding the fringe of the ruck with your hand in the air to signal when the ball is coming out. That way you actually look like your non-attendence at the ruck is indeed a deliberate ploy. That's leadership.

Tried to find a picture of this and somehow couldn't. It's his default pose. Did find some other pictures that highlight his 'skillset':

The slow run, complete with hand chop and concentrated look.


The hopeful try assist - rest.


Finally a fair opponent (will still get knocked back)

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

The key to Kellock's rucking observation technique is to pretend that what you're actually doing is guarding the fringe of the ruck with your hand in the air to signal when the ball is coming out. That way you actually look like your non-attendence at the ruck is indeed a deliberate ploy. That's leadership.

Tried to find a picture of this and somehow couldn't. It's his default pose. Did find some other pictures that highlight his 'skillset':

The slow run, complete with hand chop and concentrated look.


The hopeful try assist - rest.


Finally a fair opponent (will still get knocked back)

Incredibly harsh on Kellock, while at the same time being very funny.

[RDW]

Had email from Edinburgh Rugby saying we have another A game this Sunday at 2pm v Sale A on Murrayfield back pitches.
While I like the concept of the A games, I think this is a bit much right now.  That will be Edinburgh had 2 1st team games and 2 A games in 8 days!!

Will probably wander along for a look if my spirit isn't completely broken after tonight.  Think if we are to do these A games, why not just do a pool format (spread out over a number of weeks when it can fit in) - say Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sale.  I feel it would add a bit more spice at least

Given that the majority of the A squad will have played in the A game on Monday and are not playing tonight, it should generally be OK. Can see more Prem 1 players having to be selected though.

Surely Brett Thompson will be given some gametime too.

[InjuredYetAgain]

Where is this place called "Barton" about which the journalist speaks, RDW? In all my playing days I don't recall playing at such a venue.
Are all journalists lysdexic?

[George Carlin]

https://www.606v2.com/t55812-benetton-treviso-v-glasgow-warriors-5-october 

Volunteers to do the Botox Users' thread will be much appreciated.

[RDW]

Good to see Edinburgh A got a win against Sale Jets on Sunday.

Most importantly, Ben Atiga is back fit!!!

Well I say fit...

[Majestic83]

Good to see Edinburgh A got a win against Sale Jets on Sunday.

Most importantly, Ben Atiga is back fit!!!

Well I say fit...

Anyone know who Richard Stewart is on the wing? Seems to be from South Africa but not been aware of him playing for any prem 1 club so must be on trial?

[RDW]

Not sure who be is, but he's a bit scrawny looking at some of the pictures. Looks young too.

[George Carlin]

Good to see Edinburgh A got a win against Sale Jets on Sunday.

Most importantly, Ben Atiga is back fit!!!

So clearly Edinburgh bakeries cannot be open yet.

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