Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread V - The Fun Continues

[IanBru]

First topic message reminder :

Banter through the ages:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv

Well friends, the pre-season has come and gone, now things get real.

A. Edinburgh Rugby


1. Pre-Season

Edinburgh 10-11 Leicester Tigers
Edinburgh 21-15 Newcastle Falcons

2. Results
Munster 13-14 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 13-14 Connacht
Ospreys 62-13 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 20-20 Scarlets
Ulster 30-0 Edinburgh
Edinburgh 24-10 Newport Gwent Dragons
Bordeaux-Bègles 13-15 Edinburgh

3. Upcoming Fixtures

Friday 24 Oct 2014 - 19:45 (TBC)
Lyon   (H)   -   European Rugby Challenge Cup

B. Glasgow Warriors


1. Pre-Season Results
Glasgow Warriors 23-24 Harlequins
London Scottish 19-38 Glasgow Warriors

2. Results
Glasgow Warriors 22-20 Leinster
Cardiff Blues 12-33 Glasgow Warriors
Newport Gwent Dragons 13-33 Glasgow Warriors
Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht
Benetton Treviso 23-40 Glasgow Warriors
Ulster 29-9 Glasgow Warriors


3. Upcoming Fixtures

Sat 18 Oct 2014 - 15:15 (Live on BT Sport 2)
Bath   (H)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Sat 25 Oct 2014 - 18:15 (Live on Sky Sports)
Montpellier Herault   (A)   -   European Rugby Champions Cup

Any and all discussion of things rugby-related is welcome. Restaurant recommendations are openly sought. Introductions to eligible young people would be fantastic. Bullying, jingoism, and wang-measuring is not on.

We need to move forwards not backwards, upwards not forwards, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

[tigertattie]

Shipping 80 points to Zebre and Treviso?

[Weegie Wizard]

I cannot take a single positive from Edinburgh's performances. We are a disgrace.

Personally I don't see how we can do worse than shipping over 80 points against Ospreys and Ulster.

LOL there is no despair in the world like that of a Scottish rugby supporter.

If I were in your shoes I would be saying the same. But remember that the same players and the same coaching team produced the performance against Munster. If you play like that from now until Christmas you will probably be about 15pts better off going into the 1872 games.

If you don't, then fair enough Solomons will be in serious trouble but it is time to face the next 5 games with tentative optimism. We should be used to that by now.

[VinceWLB]

I personally had my doubts after the Munster result, it was effectively a 2nd/3rd stringer they were up against, i had never heard of their 8 for instance, arguably they should have lost if they had a kicker that day.

Unfortunately results that followed cleared those doubts.

Big performance needed against the drags but a change in selection as well as tactics are very much needed for that.

[GLove39]

I cannot take a single positive from Edinburgh's performances. We are a disgrace.

Personally I don't see how we can do worse than shipping over 80 points against Ospreys and Ulster.

Well it was actually over 90 points shipped over those 2 games!

Looking ahead to Europe, how hilarious are the games against London Welsh going to be!?
Edinburgh - PF 60. PA 139.
London Welsh - PF 44. PA 249

[RDW]

I cannot take a single positive from Edinburgh's performances. We are a disgrace.

Personally I don't see how we can do worse than shipping over 80 points against Ospreys and Ulster.

Well it was actually over 90 points shipped over those 2 games!

Radge is a prop remember, you've got to lower your expectations!

[GLove39]

I cannot take a single positive from Edinburgh's performances. We are a disgrace.

Personally I don't see how we can do worse than shipping over 80 points against Ospreys and Ulster.

Well it was actually over 90 points shipped over those 2 games!

Radge is a prop remember, you've got to lower your expectations!

To be fair it isn't just forwards who struggle with arithmetic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkgTBxu0AE

[George Carlin]

I've tried to write this post a few times, but decided to calm down each time and try again later. It's really very difficult to avoid slipping into Iannucci-esque flameswearing and hyperbole - I think that everyone else is the same and it's collectively borne of incredible disappointment - but I'm trying very hard to be balanced.

The thing is - are we being unfair? What were our expectations at the start of the league? Did the Munster victory set us off with a higher baseline level of expectation than we should have? We all know that any team in the league has a puncher's chance and if you get momentum in a game, then one off upsets are possible. There are 3 teams on 7 points, we are one of them. I think that the biggest poo in the salad has to be that it's a further 5 point gap until Leinster in 7th.

For me, the most disappointing thing is that Solly does not seem to have changed his tactics now that he'll have had the chance to see whether his teams can execute the strategy that he's given them. Tactical kicking in touch is a perfectly fine strategy but you need kick chasers who are willing to work their arses off to stop the quick line out or the return punt. Munster showed the other night against Leinster how effective that can be with good kickers and hungry chasers. The thing is, though, not only are Edinburgh not executing it well (some of the kicking from hand was horrible), but to the pea brained punter such as myself, it doesn't even seem to be a strategy particularly well suited to this squad.

[tigertattie]

The thing is George, is that pappy's tactics are negative but they are not getting the results!

Remember the good old days of Robbo at Edinburgh? 10 man rugby but we were a hard team to beat so we got results!

shipping 60 points to the hairsprays then being nilled by Ulster

Pappy said last year "I need a pre season" - He's had it and things are not improving!

If kick ball ain't working and players like Stauss and Coman are being poo week in week out, then bloomin well drop em and shake things up a bit!

Crikey, I'm sure if someone turned round and said to McInally "dude, I know you are in the process of changing to a hooker, but do you fancy a game at 6 on Sat?" He'd happily show Coman how backrow play should be done!

[TJ]

I think the real issue with Edinburgh is morale and leadership - or the lack thereof. They simply have no belief and no trust in each other - hence the poor kick chase, hence the hesitancy in defence. This is something for the coach to sort out.

As for expectations - its not unreasonable to expect a top 6 finish at the end of the season.

[George Carlin]

https://www.606v2.com/t55925-ulster-rugby-v-glasgow-warriors-11-october#2797217

[jimbopip]

I think the real issue with Edinburgh is morale and leadership - or the lack thereof.  They simply have no belief and no trust in each other - hence the poor kick chase, hence the hesitancy in defence.  This is something for the coach to sort out.

As for expectations - its not unreasonable to expect a top 6 finish at the end of the season.  

Ah yes, and this is the club who deemed Al Kellock surplus to requirements.

[George Carlin]

I think the real issue with Edinburgh is morale and leadership - or the lack thereof.  They simply have no belief and no trust in each other - hence the poor kick chase, hence the hesitancy in defence.  This is something for the coach to sort out.

As for expectations - its not unreasonable to expect a top 6 finish at the end of the season.  

Ah yes, and this is the club who deemed Al Kellock surplus to requirements.

It's the fact that they also deemed Sean Maitland surplus to requirements that's the problem...

[funnyExiledScot]

....and Geoff Cross, Ryan Grant, Ross Rennie, Alex Allan, Netani Talei and Nick De Luca...

[RDW]

Also worth noting the likes of Andy Kelly, Ben Cairns, Steven Turnbull and Steve Lawrie retiring / being let go - they were never going to be top internationalists (cairnsy aside maybe ) but were part of the heart and soul of the club. Something we're desperately missing.

[funnyExiledScot]

Baby fES afforded me the opportunity last night (around 3am) to catch up on all my recorded rugby viewing and I was able to watch a few Newcastle, Glaws and Sale performances. I must say that Cusiter, Laidlaw and Hogg have made some telling contributions over the last couple of weeks and are simmering on some decent form. Hogg in particular looked good in the win over Exeter and at 31 (32 at the World Cup) and with Denton injured I would recall him for the AIs personally. He is of course a specialist number 8 so would probably be deployed on the wing, but he showed a great turn of pace down the wing against Exeter and put in some big carries as well. He also gives a lineout option at the tail (handy for those Ross Ford overthrows, so we just tell Fordy to aim for the middle and put up Gray at the front and Hogg at the back, no need for a middle jumper of course - all bases covered!).

[tigertattie]

I've been saying for years that I don't get why Hogg (Ally) has dropped off the rader from a Scotland point of view! He is a far more rounded player than one direction denton! Former Captain at Edinburgh. Just the kind of player with actual leadership skills (not the kind Coman and Strauss have) that Scotland and Edinburgh are crying out for!

[funnyExiledScot]

With Denton injured I think his recall becomes even more obvious. Beattie will presumably also make the squad but I'd like to see Ali Hogg brought back into the fold. The World Cup is not about development, it is about delivering, and these AIs and the 6 Nations are about preparing for the World Cup. From what I've seen Hogg has a compelling case, particularly in Denton's absence. Brown at 8 is absolutely not an option, and I'm not convinced that Wilson and Ashe are better than Hogg.

[RuggerRadge2611]

The Laidlaw/Hook/Twelvetrees combo at Glaws feeding Sharples and May has been scintilating.

It raises the question that Laidlaw is thinking too much about everything else when he playes for Scotland. Whereas at Glaws having Hook and Twelvetrees running the midfield he is back to being a proper terrier of a Scrum Half.

Hogg has looked pretty good for Newcastle too, despite them being on the bad end of some results.

[funnyExiledScot]

The Laidlaw/Hook/Twelvetrees combo at Glaws feeding Sharples and May has been scintilating.

It raises the question that Laidlaw is thinking too much about everything else when he playes for Scotland. Whereas at Glaws having Hook and Twelvetrees running the midfield he is back to being a proper terrier of a Scrum Half.

Hogg has looked pretty good for Newcastle too, despite them being on the bad end of some results.

I think this is a really good point. The impression last year was that Laidlaw didn't have much faith in Jackson's ability to run the game, and so took on the responsibility himself, leading to slower service and more box kicking. He seemed better with Weir because of Weir's more kicking orientated game, and the fact that Weir is considerably less likely to take any form of risk than Jackson. Problem there was that we were putting boot to ball far too much, and just feeding opposition counter attacks due to a poor kick chase (and in Weir's case hoofing it out on the full too often giving up possession and territory).

Laidlaw seems more at ease with Hook and 36 outside him making game management decisions, and when Glaws play at tempo Laidlaw just plays instinctively off the cuff rather than overthinking things, which brings out the best in him. His chip for the May try a couple of weeks back was sublime. Not just the decision and execution, but the speed of thought was top drawer. It's up to Cotter to extract that sort of performance from him in a Scotland jersey, rather than just asking him to kick the ball away slowly all the time.

[George Carlin]

Similarly Cusiter's charge down try at the weekend really was instrumental (following just after a Waps sin binning) in turning the game. Classic scrum half sniping. Always good to read about exiles doing well.

[tigertattie]

I'd not say it is just down to taking away the decision making from Laidlaw, He's a great decision maker and I'd not want to take that skillset away from his all-round game!

For me the difference is the tactics! Under Rab C and also with Solomons at Edinburgh, Laidlaw had instructions of "In your own half, hoof the ball away" and "Between the halfway and the opponents 22, kick the ball into space for folk to chase"

At Glaws there is more of a "play the game of rugby, mix things up and play what is in front of you".  If he sees that Glaws have an overlap (even inside their own half) or if he gets a call from the 10/12 to ship the ball, then Laidlaw gets the ball out quick and puts it through the hands. If he sees a flat line of defense rushing up, then a chip over the top could be required!

I beleive they call it "heads up rugby" its far more entertaining that a prescribed mantra of hoof ball when in your own half at all times tactic!

[lostinwales]

I'd not say it is just down to taking away the decision making from Laidlaw, He's a great decision maker and I'd not want to take that skillset away from his all-round game!

For me the difference is the tactics! Under Rab C and also with Solomons at Edinburgh, Laidlaw had instructions of "In your own half, hoof the ball away" and "Between the halfway and the opponents 22, kick the ball into space for folk to chase"

At Glaws there is more of a "play the game of rugby, mix things up and play what is in front of you".  If he sees that Glaws have an overlap (even inside their own half) or if he gets a call from the 10/12 to ship the ball, then Laidlaw gets the ball out quick and puts it through the hands. If he sees a flat line of defense rushing up, then a chip over the top could be required!

I beleive they call it "heads up rugby" its far more entertaining that a prescribed mantra of hoof ball when in your own half at all times tactic!

At Gloucs you have Charlie Sharples and John May on the wings. They are both seriously fast and can score from anywhere given the chance.

[GLove39]

Great news from Glasgow. @GlasgowWarriors: LATEST: Capacity of Scotstoun increased for remainder of the season due to high demand for tickets http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/10/07/scotstoun-capacity-increased-remainder-season

[tigertattie]

At Gloucs you have Charlie Sharples and John May on the wings. They are both seriously fast and can score from anywhere given the chance.

Tim Visser does the same thing! Difference is that our centres don't get the ball out to him!

[jimbopip]

Buffy's Mate had this to say after his excellent debut on Sunday,
"Al Kellock was a massive influence on me. He just made sure that if I was nervous or a bit lost he would always help me out. He was absolutely fantastic.

"There were loads of other individuals - it's a great family atmosphere at Glasgow and everyone put an arm round me and said 'good luck. After the game it was a great experience with them all saying 'well done'."

I'm sure our eastern brethren will never fully understand just how good a player Big Al is, nor how much he contributes to the success at Glasgow but those of us with our hearts in the west worship the very ground he hovers above.

[EWT Spoons]

Jimbop – I don’t think any Edinburgh fan would question what the ruck inspector brings to the Glasgow team, sure he can’t ‘inspect’ as well as he used to, but as a captain, he’s different class, I think any Edinburgh fan would be delighted to have him in the squad.

On a totally unrelated topic, Edinburgh have sent Chris Auld on loan to London Scottish and Alex Toolis on loan to London Irish.

Would have liked to see at least Auld get some gametime for us, but I can only assume he’s showing some level of ability/potential in training and Solomons is worried that he might have to drop Strauss for him.

[George Carlin]

London Scottish does well out of their relationship with the Scottish pro sides. Glasgow already loaned them Connor Braid to cover their backline injury woes.

[Majestic83]

I've been saying for years that I don't get why Hogg (Ally) has dropped off the rader from a Scotland point of view! He is a far more rounded player than one direction denton! Former Captain at Edinburgh. Just the kind of player with actual leadership skills (not the kind Coman and Strauss have) that Scotland and Edinburgh are crying out for!

Same think its a disgrace Ally hasn't been in the Scotland squad since 2009. A great ball playing 8 who can cover the whole back row. If not starting would have made the ideal impact sub for Scotland.
Also has one of the best try scoring records out of any scottish players in recent years. Think it is 10 tries in 47 tests.
Hopefully he gets a call up this autumn as in my opinion he is better than Ryan Wilson by a mile, Adam Ashe is good but not had enough game time and would say Hogg is at least as good as Denton if not slightly better in some key areas like ball skills.
Plus he is a very good leader which is something Scotland don't have many off!

[jimbopip]

Ally Hogg is a bit like John Barclay; one day he was an integral part of the side and next he was in Purdah with only Schiz and Asbo for company. I still think Barclay is probably our best 7 and that a fit and hungry Hogg is worth a place in the squad.
Rennie-Hogg-Barclay. What a back row NOT to take to the world cup.

[justified sinner]

2 7s and an 8 though, bit Rob Moffatesque.

[jimbopip]

Justified, remember that Rennie can play anywhere. Even in the lower English leagues.

[tigertattie]

playing with 2 7s and an 8 is far better than playing with 3 8s!!!

[George Carlin]

We beat Australia in Newcastle playing two 7s (Rennie, Barclay) and a 6 (Strokosch).

The famous Out-Pococking Pocock Day.

[RDW]

The chances of us ever playing two 7s is very slim given we hardly ever play one 7!

[IanBru]

playing with 2 7s and an 8 is far better than playing with 3 8s!!!

Yeah, the 7s are more grateful.

Isn't Tinder wonderful?

[jimbopip]

I believe Tinder is dating site for young sexually active people, Mr Bru. Best make the most of it while you still have the "stones".
MFL to finish in the top six, oh what hubris. And after all the wisdom Schiz and Lady Schiz attempted to share with you.

[RDW]

Who knew Lee Jones had this in him??



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU8WiVSKcgY

Great effort!

[funnyExiledScot]

That is hilarious, and great work Lee Jones! Once Solomons and the anti-rugby brigade at Edinburgh get their inevitable P45s he's more than welcome back!

[IanBru]

Outstanding from the Selkirk Pixie! Unless I'm blind, I genuinely can't see where he came from!?

[jimbopip]

Don't you be worrying about your eyesight Brumeister, you concentrate on praying for the MFL to start winning.

[IanBru]

It's happening Jim, I can... I can feel it in my stones.

[jimbopip]

Feel them while you can. Ooops, that allegedly is where Asbo got his name from.
p.s. I am not obsessing about your genitalia. And I don't miss Schiz. Or Asbo.

[George Carlin]

Oh lord. Here we go, then:
https://www.606v2.com/t55999-ercc-pool-4-round-1-glasgow-warriors-v-bath-rugby

[tigertattie]

Glasgow lose - Edinburgh win

Welcome gentlemen to the twilight zone!

[RDW]

Random thought - with Du Preez injured and Talei released by Dragons, reckon we should bring him back? If even just for the season

Not sure what kind of shape he'll be in though, and there's no doubt a reason he was let go...

[justified sinner]

I think the reason he was released is he's out injured until February, so not much use really.

[RDW]

Baws.

[Argybargy]

So I have both the Edinburgh and Glagow games recorderised.
And I know both results but limited time so can only watch one this week.
Which is most entertaining....???? Suggestions on a postcard?

[RDW]

Recorderised aye?

Sounds like the Glasgow game was much more exciting, but Edinburgh at least won!

[George Carlin]

So I have both the Edinburgh and Glagow games recorderised.
And I know both results but limited time so can only watch one this week.
Which is most entertaining....???? Suggestions on a postcard?

The sheer novelty of Edinburgh putting together a half decent performance is the clear determining factor for me. In years to come we'll all look back on that victory and weep with nostalgia.

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