Scotland squad for autumn tests

First topic message reminder :

The scotland squad for the autumn tests is named on Monday for the three tests in November.

The tests are
Argentina 8th November 5.30pm kick off at Murrayfield

New zealand 15th November 5.30pm kick off at Murrayfield

Tonga 22nd November 2.30pm kick off at rugby park, Kilmarnock

All three tests are going to be very hard and physical, scotland having just beaten argentina in the summer but what was mostly a 2nd/3rd choice argentina team, never having beaten the all blacks and losing to Tonga the last time they played 2 years ago on a dismal day in Aberdeen.

The scotland players will want to put in big performances to impress new coach Vern cotter and the team will also want to put down a marker with games running out before the World Cup.

For me winning the Argentina and Tonga games and putting in a good performance and keeping the all blacks close will be a good series for scotland.
Glasgow have had a great start to the season and will provide a lot of the squad. Edinburgh on the other hand have been poor and probably won't provide too many of the squad. Will fielding the majority of the glasgow first Xv be the way to go with one or two exiles included ?

There will probably be a squad of around 32 to 34 named on Monday.
This would be my squad

Props
Gordon Reid
Al Dickinson
Alex Allan
Euan murray
Geoff cross
Jon Welsh

Props are a little bit of a concern due to injuries and loss of form of some. Jon Welsh returns this weekend for ayr and is expected to play for Glasgow the following week. Geoff cross has just returned from injury aswell and hopefully will get more game time for London Irish as in recent tests he has been very good. The Rev seems to be getting back to good form for Glasgow and will be first choice till the others pick up form.
Loose head is a bit easier, Gordon Reid is in decent form, Al Dickinson has been oneof Edinburghs few form players and alex Allan is getting better and better. Think it will be too early for ryan grant to challenge.

Hookers
Ross ford
Pat maccarthur
Fraser brown

Hooker is a difficult position, not toomany players really pushing on in this position. Ross ford has looked fairly decent this season though still having problems with hooking and the occasional line out blip.
Pat maccarthur has had mixed form and seems to be a rotation system at glasgow with their hookers as all four are pretty equal. Fraser brown has impressed me, very accurate at set piece and is like an extra open side in open play.

Locks
Jonny gray
Richie gray
Grant Gilchrist
Tim Swinson
Lots of good quality locks to choose from but these four are the best on form. The gray brothers are very different players and should compliment each other. Richie is very athletic and strong in the line out, jonny has those qualities but has an added bite about him and really is effective in the breakdown area and is a good leader despite only being 20. Grant Gilchrist has come on leaps and bounds over the last 2 years. A bit of acombination between the gray brothers, athletic but is developing a hard edge which scotland need. Tim Swinson wins the fourth lock spot, playing well at glasgow, not the biggest lock but very powerful and gets through lots of work

Back row

Rob Harley
Kelly brown
Johnnie Beattie
Ally hogg
Blair Cowan
John Barclay

One of Scotland's strongest area if they are played in their correct positions and have the correct combination which is key. Have included ally hogg as he is in great form at Newcastle and deserves a call up. Blair Cowan has been one of the best 7s in the premiership. Been very impressed by him, big tackler, good at winning turnovers, very athletic and gets about the pitch and is good with ball in hand and also has a bit of aggression about him. Rob Harley has been impressive and is the tough niggly player you want from a six. Great line out option and tackles like a demon, also seems to have improved his ball carrying.

Scrum halfs
Chris cusiter
Greig Laidlaw
Scott Steele

A fairly easy pick, cusiter in great form at sale and Laidlaw getting better at glaws especially in the last couple games. Then there is scott steele who has really impressed at London irish. Been probably their key player. Great service and also likes to have ago himself and has created a fair few tries too.

Stand offs
Finn Russell
Duncan weir

No one is really standing out. Weir has been very consistent this season and finn Russell is starting to come into form after a later start to the season. Russell still looks the most all rounded option with a good kicking game, strong passing game and not afraid to have a go himself. Unlucky for ruraidh Jackson as he had looked very impressive at wasps. Tom heathcote has had good moments but still looks a bit short in confidence while Tonks has shifted back to full back.

Centre
Al Dunbar
Mark Bennett
Peter Horne
Duncan Taylor

No options in the centre from edinburgh as they continue to play foreigners so 3 out of the 4 are from glasgow. All 3 are very different players but seem to compliment each other no matter what combo. Duncan Taylor has looked good at Saracens playing mostly at 13 and has won motm a couple times. Struggling slightly with other options with alex grove playing in the championship and nick de Luca playing in d2.

Wing
Sean Maitland
Tommy Seymour
Tim visser
Sean Lamont

Lots of good options to choose from Seymour is getting better each game and looks very sharp and dangerous. Maitland back from injury and an extended break which has probably been a good thing after playing pretty much 3 years without a break. Should be refreshed and certainly looked v sharp scoring an 80 m try for glasgows back up squad. Visser having a mixed season, still sharp in attack but still suspect in defence. A lot of people will disagree with sean Lamont but thought he has been v good for Glasgow and has that added physicality. For me he will be a very good impact sub. Max evans misses out despite being in good form for castres despite their poor start, has scored 2 or 3 times already this season. Dougie fyfe just back from injury and could sneak into the squad but will struggle due to edinburgh spoor form.

Full back

Stuart hogg
Peter murchie

Hogg seems to have recovered from last seasons lions syndrome blip. His attitude seems a lot better and looks a real attacking threat again. Hopefully will kick on even further and will establish himself as one of the top full backs in world rugby. Been doing a lot of work on his goal kicking to get him up to the 80% + mark. Peter murchie in great form at Glasgow as well, very solid in defence and under the high ball and pops up in the right place in attack and is deceptively quick with his long stride. Cuthbert started the season well at edinburgh but has been poor the last few weeksafterhaving to play wing. Tonks has looked ok but not as good as hogg or murchie. Steve MacColl started the season well for glaws but is injured but is one to watch out for in the future .

A year out from the world up scotland need to stop experimenting and trying out new players. They need to play the strongest team so that players are settled and can read each other which only comes with game time together.

For me the strongest lineup would be

1 Gordon Reid
2 Ross ford
3 Euan murray
4 grant Gilchrist
5 jonny gray
6 rob Harley
7 Blair Cowan
8 johnnie Beattie
9 chris cusiter (capt)
10 finn Russell
11 Tommy seymour
12 alex Dunbar
13 mark Bennett
14 sean Maitland
15 stuart hogg

16 Fraser brown
17 Al Dickinson
18 Geoff cross
19 Richie gray
20 kelly brown
21 greg Laidlaw close call with scott Steele
22 Duncan weir but tempted with Horne who is more versatile
23 sean Lamont.

That's my thoughts and my strongest current team but interested to hear others views in what is a real makeor break season for scotland.

Phew...

reallybored wrote:God I'm excited about the potential back-line we're going to have, honestly can't remember the last time it looked so potent plus there's plenty of competition.

Just hope our pack can deliver at the set-piece and provide some decent front-foot ball in the right areas.

I'd like to see

1 - Reid
2 - Ford
3 - Murray

A big unit with plenty experience, should be solid enough at scrum time and offer good grunt work around the park. Ford's throwing will be under the micro-scope as ever.

4 - Gray
5 - Gray

Another very hefty unit to add further ballast to the scrum, plus two tall line-out options.  Both have exceptional work-rates in the defence, with Jnr doing the dirty grunt work hopefully we'll see Snr stretching his legs a little like he used to.

6 - Harley
7 - Cowan
8 - Beattie

Well balanced unit, huge responsibility on Beattie to re-create the go forward Strauss provides Glasgow to get us on the front-foot.  Cowan should give us some pace in attack while Harley will tackle all day and just generally be a nuisance.  Plus Beattie and Harley are good line-out options.

That is the pack I would like to see for the argentina and all blacks game. Think the back row especially has a good balance and looking forward to see how it goes.
Will be interesting to see who they have as back row sub as the options that are left Fusaro, Ashe, Low and Strokosh are all pretty much specialists in one position so don't really offer much cover to the whole of the back row. Still think Cotter has made a mistake not having Brown or Hogg in the squad for at least the versatile bench option.
The only back rowers who are versatile and can really cover more than one position are Blair Cowan and Johnnie Beattie!

Agreed on that pack. The back row bench slot is tricky. Ashe is probably the most obvious choice as Beattie would cover 6 but an injury to Cowan would leave you exposed. It's why the omission of Brown is utterly nonsensical. Imagine the boost to the team if Brown came off the bench with 20 to go (and a massive point to prove).

I'd probably go with Strokosch. He could cover 7 if he had to (or switch Harley to 7). I just don't see Fusaro as an impact sub.

Yeah I think Strokosch is probably the likely sub back rower as he does play at 7 a lot for Perpignan.
Just seems mad to me to not have Brown in the squad. He is playing well at Saracens and is versatile player. Strokosch was good when in form but from what I have seen of him this season he hasn't been in great form for Perpignan.
For me the 6 in form backrowers would have been Cowan, Barclay as 7s Harley and Brown as 6s and Hogg and Beattie as 8s. Gives you a strong starting back row and then Brown, Hogg and Barclay are versatile subs.
Out of the squad that has been picked the back row selection is the one that I find most odd!

Its just madness to leave out Brown!

Wasn't he the player who made the most tackles and won the most turnovers in his last 6ns campaign?

Majestic83 wrote:Yeah I think Strokosch is probably the likely sub back rower as he does play at 7 a lot for Perpignan.
Just seems mad to me to not have Brown in the squad. He is playing well at Saracens and is versatile player. Strokosch was good when in form but from what I have seen of him this season he hasn't been in great form for Perpignan.
For me the 6 in form backrowers would have been Cowan, Barclay as 7s Harley and Brown  as 6s and Hogg and Beattie as 8s. Gives you a strong starting back row and then Brown, Hogg and Barclay are versatile subs.
Out of the squad that has been picked the back row selection is the one that I find most odd!

It is an odd selection but hopefully we're still better off than with the Scott Johnson madness of playing Ryan Wilson at 6 and Kelly Brown at 7. At least we have specialist players looking to play in specialist positions (fingers crossed). It's because we have specialists that the bench slot is tricky.

For what it's worth I entirely agree on your "form" back row choices. I'd certainly want Ali Hogg in the squad, he's having a storming season. I'd probably start him at 8 ahead of Beattie if I'm being honest, and his experience would be a real asset in a relatively green back 5 of the pack.

Is anyone aware of why Hogg (Ali) would be overlooked repeatedly for Scotland?

I’ll be honest I’ve not seen him play much for a while, but everyone on here who has been able to see him in action have been nothing but positive about his performances, so why isn’t he in with a shout?  Is it an age thing, given he’s now 31 and maybe other younger players are perceived as better options, did he do something to offend the blazers and they’ve excommunicated him, or is there some other blatantly obvious reason I’m missing?

The same applies to a certain extent with Barclay, since he left Glasgow it’s like he doesn’t exist to Scotland coaches.

Maybe we’ve applied a type of ‘home rule’, but make exceptions for certain players, but that would seem unlikely

Spoons - I honestly believe that his biggest problem is that he plays for a relatively unfashionable club (sorry GeordieFalcon) who often find making progress in the league very tough. It's for the same reason that if John Barclay played for Northampton or Harlequins then I suspect the Scottish selectors would have more time for him.

A. Hogg has never stopped being a really good player though.

Aye that makes sense.

Still a shame though.

George Carlin wrote:Spoons - I honestly believe that his biggest problem is that he plays for a relatively unfashionable club (sorry GeordieFalcon) who often find making progress in the league very tough. It's for the same reason that if John Barclay played for Northampton or Harlequins then I suspect the Scottish selectors would have more time for him.

A. Hogg has never stopped being a really good player though.

....so how do Edinburgh players make the squad???

GLove39 wrote:

BigGee wrote:

TJ wrote:Harley is out tho - broken cheekbone.

That was Roddy Grant, unless Harley did as well, but no news on that front from the medical bulletin.

Mistaking Harley for Roddy Grant! Insinuating that all red heads look alike... should be a ban

Sorry *tugs forelock*

What's the position with Jim Hamilton - he's in the Scottish Rugby youtube channel video in training???



00.23

I thought he'd been added to the squad after Gilchrist's date with density.

Can someone remind me when Willem Nel qualifies for Scotland? I'm thinking of a potential world cup squad.

Yeah, on Tuesday nights I go a little 'crazy'.

IanBru wrote:Can someone remind me when Willem Nel qualifies for Scotland? I'm thinking of a potential world cup squad.

Yeah, on Tuesday nights I go a little 'crazy'.

Don't think he'd make my squad, hardly like his form is setting the heather alight and he's got no Test experience.

Murray is still first choice and enjoying an indian summer imo
Cross has yet to let us down at Test level, always worry about the scrum but he usually come through flying colours
Welsh hasn't been given a chance but he's done well at TH for Glasgow and was first choice ahead of Cross and Low
Low never pushed on as we hoped he might and isn't getting much time at Exteter but as a prop he's still got time
Faregson ok he's only had a couple appearances for Glasgow and certainly won't go to RWC but i'm excited

Nematode wrote:What's the position with Jim Hamilton - he's in the Scottish Rugby youtube channel video in training???



00.23

My god, how can Whispering Ross Ford ever captain anyone? My 3 year old daughter is more vibrant in stating what she wants.
The fact that he is increasingly looking like a garden gnome does not help add gravitas.

Compare that to the likes of BOD, De Villiers and McCaw and I need a stiff drink. Interesting that Gilchrist is seen to be captain material.

Nematode wrote:What's the position with Jim Hamilton - he's in the Scottish Rugby youtube channel video in training???

I take it you missed the fact that Grant Gilchrist broke his arm and big Jim was called up to replace him?

What about Stuart Hogg as captain? Guaranteed starter, Lions tourist and clearly "arrogant" in that he thinks he's good at rugby.

Perhaps his "bad attitude" was just the sort of front we need from the captain. A sort of Scottish Will Carling.

FES - completely agree re Hogg... Was thinking exactly the same thing before I even watched the filum...even more so now.
We've had some reasonable captains at full back before...

In fact, I think who ever is picked at full back automatically gets the captaincy...

I don't think Hogg is a terrible shout for captain, possibly the only player really guaranteed his place in the XV. Plus he's probably our best player, young, used to winning and as FES said a British Lion.

Anyone watch the SRU interview with Beattie and Cusiter on twitter feed?  

Sounds like Cotter will have far more control and influence on how we're going to play compared to the summer tests.  Gosh I'm excited!

If, through injury, Lamont starts I think he'd be a good shout for captain. He's been the most passionate player for Scotland over the last decade and is one of the only senior players left in the squad. I could see the lads following him and he certainly leads from the front. Not a long term option but I'd take him over Ford any day of the week.

I wouldn't have Mister AP as captain, I don't think.
He's too young and I don't think is an authority figure within a squad.

Other guys who are technically very good like Rob Harley are, by all accounts, a bit quiet.

I'll only say it one more time, but you need a bedrock and figure of calm.
Like a Josh Strauss, for example.

The Scotsman today suggests that Harley is being considered for captain.

I'd be happy with that choice - he's guaranteed a place in the swquad, he's an incredibly committed player, and he's captained Glasgow in the past. He's not a shouty player, but I don't think a captain needs to be. He needs to lead by example, have the respect of his players, make good decisions on the pitch and be able to speak to the ref. No reason Harley can't do all that.

I would be encouraged if it was Harley - he is the clear leader for the 6 shirt in the absence of the mighty Kellybrows.

There was an incident reported in the Scotsman during the Leinster game. Harley quietly asked Nigel Owens to please study the video footage of the previous play as he believed he'd been held back off the ball. Owens did (perhaps because of the nature of the query) and the penalty was reversed in Glasgow's favour. Bodes well.

What is true is that Harley is one of the most articulate people in the squad.

Injury concerns for Scotland:

Scotsman wrote:Whether it is a blip or par for the professional course only time will tell but the number of injuries at the top of the game is reaching epidemic proportions.


Matt Scott, David Denton, Ryan Grant, Grant Gilchrist and Ryan Wilson are all either injured or have only recently returned to action and are not deemed Test-match fit. Two of Scotland’s most experienced scrum-halves were also unable to take any significant part in a Newcastle squad session.

Chris Cuister has a calf strain and Greig Laidlaw has suffered deep bruising to his lower leg. While both are expected to be fit for the Argentina Test, Scotland head coach Vern Cotter doubts either will play for their clubs this weekend, leaving them a 
little undercooked for a Test match a week on Saturday.

On top of the scrum-half crisis, neither of Scotland’s two best centres did much. Mark Bennett has a sore knee and Alex 
Dunbar had a repetition of the thigh problem that kept him out of action for five weeks ahead of Glasgow’s European tie in Montpellier, where he only lasted until half time.

Bennett is the form player in Scotland and should recover in time to make his international debut against Argentina but Dunbar is a real doubt, especially since he has had so little rugby in recent weeks. If Dunbar does not recover in time, and he may be asked to prove his fitness this Friday for Glasgow, then Saracens’ Duncan Taylor would be the favourite to fill the No 12 shirt inside Bennett.

In addition, Johnnie Beattie was another player who spent most of the time in Newcastle on the sidelines.

The breakaway is the only specialist No 8 in the squad with much experience in the bank and Cotter cannot 
afford to lose him at this stage.

It's a shame the Springboks won't be playing Scotland this November, I would much rather have swopped Italy for Scotland

Glasgow team announced, with Horne and Fusaro starting.

Suggests the rest are involved in the Scotland squad, are at least covering for injuries.

Do we think that the players released back to Glasgow and Edinburgh are giving us some clues as to who will play against Argentina next Saturday.

Horne and Heathcote are probably no great surprises, as it would seem they are a little down the pecking order in their respective positions. Fusaro being back, especially after having had a bruising few weeks would suggest that Blair Cowan will start at openside. I would say that is probably the form pick, despite the fact that Fusaro played very well in the two European games and actually surprised me, having had him down as a weaker link in the Glasgow set up. He is never going to be a bench option though, it will always be start or nothing for him.

Visser being back with Edinburgh and Lamont staying with the squad is perhaps more surprising, especially as he has not played for a few weeks and could arguably have done with some game time. The back three is definitely looking like Seymour, Hogg and Maitland, with now I guess Lamont on the bench. Visser to stay behind and carry on with the tackling practice!

No word on Dunbar, who could arguably have done with a game to sharpen up and prove his fitness, so I guess we have to assume that he is fit and should start next week. The half back situation seems no clearer though, with some injuries thrown into the mix as well. Going to have to wait for that one. It may decide the captaincy as well.

Beattie is also still struggling a bit with injury, which hopefully explains why he has not played for Castres recently. Could it be that Adam Ashe, rapidly upward trajectory is going to continue and he may win his second cap!

All will be revelled!

George Carlin wrote:I wouldn't have Mister AP as captain, I don't think.
He's too young and I don't think is an authority figure within a squad.

Other guys who are technically very good like Rob Harley are, by all accounts, a bit quiet.

I'll only say it one more time, but you need a bedrock and figure of calm.
Like a Josh Strauss, for example.

Completely agree. Afterall, he's probably the only 100% guaranteed starter at the World Cup, having such an unblemished international track record.....

Chapeau, FES!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I wouldn't have Mister AP as captain, I don't think.
He's too young and I don't think is an authority figure within a squad.

Other guys who are technically very good like Rob Harley are, by all accounts, a bit quiet.

I'll only say it one more time, but you need a bedrock and figure of calm.
Like a Josh Strauss, for example.

Completely agree. Afterall, he's probably the only 100% guaranteed starter at the World Cup, having such an unblemished international track record.....

True. I passed my drivers test the day after I turned 18. Then I moved to Oxford and then London where you don't need to drive unless you have kids or live in Randomshire. 16 years later, I wondered what would happen if I filled in the online form for lost driver's licenses. A replacement turned up a week later.

My insurance premiums are very low. 19 years, no accidents.

That reminds me of a friend from Uni who had just finished his national service in the Swiss Army.

He had a coffee cup that read something like (in german) 'The Swiss Army: 300 years, and not a single battle lost'