Scotland squad for autumn tests

First topic message reminder :

The scotland squad for the autumn tests is named on Monday for the three tests in November.

The tests are
Argentina 8th November 5.30pm kick off at Murrayfield

New zealand 15th November 5.30pm kick off at Murrayfield

Tonga 22nd November 2.30pm kick off at rugby park, Kilmarnock

All three tests are going to be very hard and physical, scotland having just beaten argentina in the summer but what was mostly a 2nd/3rd choice argentina team, never having beaten the all blacks and losing to Tonga the last time they played 2 years ago on a dismal day in Aberdeen.

The scotland players will want to put in big performances to impress new coach Vern cotter and the team will also want to put down a marker with games running out before the World Cup.

For me winning the Argentina and Tonga games and putting in a good performance and keeping the all blacks close will be a good series for scotland.
Glasgow have had a great start to the season and will provide a lot of the squad. Edinburgh on the other hand have been poor and probably won't provide too many of the squad. Will fielding the majority of the glasgow first Xv be the way to go with one or two exiles included ?

There will probably be a squad of around 32 to 34 named on Monday.
This would be my squad

Props
Gordon Reid
Al Dickinson
Alex Allan
Euan murray
Geoff cross
Jon Welsh

Props are a little bit of a concern due to injuries and loss of form of some. Jon Welsh returns this weekend for ayr and is expected to play for Glasgow the following week. Geoff cross has just returned from injury aswell and hopefully will get more game time for London Irish as in recent tests he has been very good. The Rev seems to be getting back to good form for Glasgow and will be first choice till the others pick up form.
Loose head is a bit easier, Gordon Reid is in decent form, Al Dickinson has been oneof Edinburghs few form players and alex Allan is getting better and better. Think it will be too early for ryan grant to challenge.

Hookers
Ross ford
Pat maccarthur
Fraser brown

Hooker is a difficult position, not toomany players really pushing on in this position. Ross ford has looked fairly decent this season though still having problems with hooking and the occasional line out blip.
Pat maccarthur has had mixed form and seems to be a rotation system at glasgow with their hookers as all four are pretty equal. Fraser brown has impressed me, very accurate at set piece and is like an extra open side in open play.

Locks
Jonny gray
Richie gray
Grant Gilchrist
Tim Swinson
Lots of good quality locks to choose from but these four are the best on form. The gray brothers are very different players and should compliment each other. Richie is very athletic and strong in the line out, jonny has those qualities but has an added bite about him and really is effective in the breakdown area and is a good leader despite only being 20. Grant Gilchrist has come on leaps and bounds over the last 2 years. A bit of acombination between the gray brothers, athletic but is developing a hard edge which scotland need. Tim Swinson wins the fourth lock spot, playing well at glasgow, not the biggest lock but very powerful and gets through lots of work

Back row

Rob Harley
Kelly brown
Johnnie Beattie
Ally hogg
Blair Cowan
John Barclay

One of Scotland's strongest area if they are played in their correct positions and have the correct combination which is key. Have included ally hogg as he is in great form at Newcastle and deserves a call up. Blair Cowan has been one of the best 7s in the premiership. Been very impressed by him, big tackler, good at winning turnovers, very athletic and gets about the pitch and is good with ball in hand and also has a bit of aggression about him. Rob Harley has been impressive and is the tough niggly player you want from a six. Great line out option and tackles like a demon, also seems to have improved his ball carrying.

Scrum halfs
Chris cusiter
Greig Laidlaw
Scott Steele

A fairly easy pick, cusiter in great form at sale and Laidlaw getting better at glaws especially in the last couple games. Then there is scott steele who has really impressed at London irish. Been probably their key player. Great service and also likes to have ago himself and has created a fair few tries too.

Stand offs
Finn Russell
Duncan weir

No one is really standing out. Weir has been very consistent this season and finn Russell is starting to come into form after a later start to the season. Russell still looks the most all rounded option with a good kicking game, strong passing game and not afraid to have a go himself. Unlucky for ruraidh Jackson as he had looked very impressive at wasps. Tom heathcote has had good moments but still looks a bit short in confidence while Tonks has shifted back to full back.

Centre
Al Dunbar
Mark Bennett
Peter Horne
Duncan Taylor

No options in the centre from edinburgh as they continue to play foreigners so 3 out of the 4 are from glasgow. All 3 are very different players but seem to compliment each other no matter what combo. Duncan Taylor has looked good at Saracens playing mostly at 13 and has won motm a couple times. Struggling slightly with other options with alex grove playing in the championship and nick de Luca playing in d2.

Wing
Sean Maitland
Tommy Seymour
Tim visser
Sean Lamont

Lots of good options to choose from Seymour is getting better each game and looks very sharp and dangerous. Maitland back from injury and an extended break which has probably been a good thing after playing pretty much 3 years without a break. Should be refreshed and certainly looked v sharp scoring an 80 m try for glasgows back up squad. Visser having a mixed season, still sharp in attack but still suspect in defence. A lot of people will disagree with sean Lamont but thought he has been v good for Glasgow and has that added physicality. For me he will be a very good impact sub. Max evans misses out despite being in good form for castres despite their poor start, has scored 2 or 3 times already this season. Dougie fyfe just back from injury and could sneak into the squad but will struggle due to edinburgh spoor form.

Full back

Stuart hogg
Peter murchie

Hogg seems to have recovered from last seasons lions syndrome blip. His attitude seems a lot better and looks a real attacking threat again. Hopefully will kick on even further and will establish himself as one of the top full backs in world rugby. Been doing a lot of work on his goal kicking to get him up to the 80% + mark. Peter murchie in great form at Glasgow as well, very solid in defence and under the high ball and pops up in the right place in attack and is deceptively quick with his long stride. Cuthbert started the season well at edinburgh but has been poor the last few weeksafterhaving to play wing. Tonks has looked ok but not as good as hogg or murchie. Steve MacColl started the season well for glaws but is injured but is one to watch out for in the future .

A year out from the world up scotland need to stop experimenting and trying out new players. They need to play the strongest team so that players are settled and can read each other which only comes with game time together.

For me the strongest lineup would be

1 Gordon Reid
2 Ross ford
3 Euan murray
4 grant Gilchrist
5 jonny gray
6 rob Harley
7 Blair Cowan
8 johnnie Beattie
9 chris cusiter (capt)
10 finn Russell
11 Tommy seymour
12 alex Dunbar
13 mark Bennett
14 sean Maitland
15 stuart hogg

16 Fraser brown
17 Al Dickinson
18 Geoff cross
19 Richie gray
20 kelly brown
21 greg Laidlaw close call with scott Steele
22 Duncan weir but tempted with Horne who is more versatile
23 sean Lamont.

That's my thoughts and my strongest current team but interested to hear others views in what is a real makeor break season for scotland.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of the 3 I wouldn't mind who started, but I agree that they Gray brothers are probably our 2 best locks.

Maybe he wants the captain to be on the pitch for 80 minutes, and the next most obvious candidates (Cusiter and Laidlaw) usually get subbed off around the 60 minute mark?

Neither of those 2 have ever completely convinced as captains, with Laidlaw in particular it did seem to effect his form. I think as well with the scrum halves, there will be an element of tactics as to who they start and who comes off the bench. We also have other options as kickers now, so don't need to pick Laidlaw on that basis. Henry's form for Glasgow at the moment means that he is strongly coming into the mix as well. None of them are nailed on starters and a captain who is not will always present a problem.

For once the controversy is largely about who hasnt made the cut rather than who has. Four or five years ago we couldnt afford to leave out some of the calibre we have now. While it can certainly be argued that these guys shouldve been in the squad, the players who are there in their place can equally be argued for as well, so I struggle to see anyone selected who should absolutely not have been.

Im quite interested to see how the second rows work during the Autumn. Cotter likes his tight five to be hard working bar stewards that work their socks off in the tight and around the rucks. I reckon Gilchrists captaincy reflects this. Have him and Gray Jr throttle the oppostion forwards for 60 minutes and then bring on the all action dynamism of Gray Sr/Swinson when the games opened up a bit. I totally understand that Gilchrist wouldnt have been most peoples first choice as captain, but I think he will pleasantly surprise us. Hes got all the physical attributes, an outstanding attitude, and hes made a big difference for embra when hes played this season.

Barclay? perhaps somethings gone on, perhaps its not even between him and the coaching staff, but rather with other players? Who knows.
Brown? I reckon Cotter is going to go for Harley at 6, and Cowan covers all backrow spots and is being praised by all the pundits for his performances this season, whereas Brown is quite short on gametime. Id personally still include him, but hey ho.
Horne? I just have not been impressed with him in a Scotland shirt. In his albeit handful of caps hes been a real liability in defence. He also needs to find a position and make it his own at glasgow, and if that position is stand off, then he needs to work on his goal kicking. Ive always been a fan of him, but if he wants the coaching staff to forget his poor cameos for scotland he needs to absolutely stand out for Glasgow, and I dont think hes done that since before his injury last year.
Macarthurs another one who hasnt lived up to the hype in a scotland shirt. Everyone was looking forward to our lineout becoming watertight when he started to get games last year, me included, but it was just as bad as when Ford was playing. He also looked very underpowered in the loose, and while I see people saying theyve seen him hook for Ayr, ive yet to see it for glasgow. So at the end of the day, I dont think he brings enough to displace Ford.
I think Visser is lucky that hes bagged a couple of tries for Embra recently, because hes got nothing else going for him, and I can see Seymour, Maitland and Fife ahead of him.

The one guy who should be nowhere near the squad is Shlong. great servant of the scots game and no one has tried harder with less talent - but we no longer need him

TJ wrote:The one guy who should be nowhere near the squad is Shlong.  great servant of the scots game and no one has tried harder with less talent - but we no longer need him

Its hard to see him getting many or even any more caps with the current form of some of the other wingers. I imagine he still brings an awful lot to the squad though and if injuries strike he would still go out there and give it a really good shift. I would still have him in there as the utility back, but maybe not once Scott is fit again which would give us just a little bit more options in the centre than we have now. If everyone is fit then he will struggle to make the world cup squad.

It's brilliant to see some posters come out the woodwork having not contributed for a while - welcome back guys!

Are there any lurkers out there who haven't built up the confidence to come say hello? Please come speak to us - we won't bite!

RDW_Scotland wrote:It's brilliant to see some posters come out the woodwork having not contributed for a while - welcome back guys!

Are there any lurkers out there who haven't built up the confidence to come say hello? Please come speak to us - we won't bite!

Cheers RDW. I started lurking again a few months ago after a year away from the board, and finally gave in to posting again. The Duncan Taylor fanclub is back!

I find the Barclay situation quite sad, for such a long time he was my favourite player. He was one of the best opensides in the UK and was touted as Scotland captain.

I watched him play vs Toulon for the Scarlets, scoring a try and doing exactly what a 7 should do.

It'll be interesting to see the tactics that Scotland use. Watching Glasgow play, the box kick with Seymour chasing has been effective. His aerial skills are wonderful! I think Pyrgos might get the nod if that is the case.

alexgmacdonald wrote:I find the Barclay situation quite sad, for such a long time he was my favourite player. He was one of the best opensides in the UK and was touted as Scotland captain.

I watched him play vs Toulon for the Scarlets, scoring a try and doing exactly what a 7 should do.

It'll be interesting to see the tactics that Scotland use. Watching Glasgow play, the box kick with Seymour chasing has been effective. His aerial skills are wonderful! I think Pyrgos might get the nod if that is the case.

Thank the Lord, Glasgow do much, much, more than that.  There is a place for (good) box kicks, but only as a variation - not the entire strategy!

Obviously we'll rotate the squad for the tests, but out of the players selected, in my opinion this is our strongest side:

1. Reid
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gilchrist
5. J. Gray
6. Harley
7. Cowan
8. Beattie
9. Cusiter
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

In terms of players I've left out the 15, would have no issue with Dickinson instead of Reid....actually looking through the side and really I wouldn't be overly concerned about any of the players I've listed being left out for one of the other players in the squad, unless they are being played out of position.  The only exceptions being;
Harley, needs to start, he's been on form for so long and deserves his chance,
Seymour, Dunbar and Bennett should all be nailed on, and I suppose Hogg given he appears to be the only fullback called up.

Changed days!!

Barclay has probably only got himself to blame for his situation. He was the incumbent for Glasgow and Scotland and allowed himself to become just a little bit disinterested and complacent and performance levels dropped.

He is someone who would have benefitted from moving when he was nearer the top of his game and would probably have improved as a player had he gone to a top English or French side where he would properly have had to fight for his place. Instead he found himself not wanted by Glasgow, nor anyone else and had to settle for a much poorer move.

He is a bit out of sight and out of mind down in Wales. He clearly still us a good player as he showed against Toulon but when I watched a Scarlets game the other week he hardly seemed in the game.

If others fall by the wayside and he continues to play well he may get another chance, but it remains slightly in the hands of the gods now. If he does get a shout he needs to make the most of it, as he may not get another, younger hungrier players like Watson are starting to appear on the horizon!

EWT Spoons wrote:Obviously we'll rotate the squad for the tests, but out of the players selected, in my opinion this is our strongest side:

1. Reid
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gilchrist
5. J. Gray
6. Harley
7. Cowan
8. Beattie
9. Cusiter
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

In terms of players I've left out the 15, would have no issue with Dickinson instead of Reid....actually looking through the side and really I wouldn't be overly concerned about any of the players I've listed being left out for one of the other players in the squad, unless they are being played out of position.  The only exceptions being;
Harley, needs to start, he's been on form for so long and deserves his chance,
Seymour, Dunbar and Bennett should all be nailed on, and I suppose Hogg given he appears to be the only fullback called up.

Changed days!!

That is a decent looking side and I would not really have any problem if that one went out against Argentina. The even more encouraging thing is that it can be improved further before the world cup with a few more, Grant, Denton and Scott to come back from injury and a couple more significant additions, Strauss and Del becoming qualified.

You can almost be optimistic, changed days indeed!

Russell at 10? Weir surely especially given how his form is coming good for Glasgow

See I wasn't sure about 10. I think Weir has a tendency to kick out on the full too often and he had a pretty terrible 6 nations, and Russell has a better all round game in my opinion. With that said, Weir has been playing well for Glasgow recently so I wouldn't have an issue with him starting, i just think Russell is the better player.

Some fairly vague comments from VC on why he left out the big name players:

Asked why he had omitted Brown, Cotter included the Saracens back row in a group of four players he deemed unfortunate to have been omitted. “Kelly, Jim Hamilton, Peter Horne, Max Evans – very tough decisions. A lot of good people and good players have missed out. It goes to show the competition for places, especially at loose forwards.

“All we can say to the players that have missed out is that they’re one step away from being called back through injury.

“All they can do is prepare themselves as best as possible if we do get an injury. You never know.

“When they get the call-up they’ll have to play particularly well and put pressure on to make sure of selection next time.

“We looked at John [Barclay]. We’ve gone for players who’ve been playing well. Chris Fusaro has been playing well, Hamish Watson” – one of three “invited to train with the squad” – “has been playing well.

“It was tough for John as well. We’re aware of what he’s been doing.

“We’ve been following him. We had to make some tough calls over good people with the players who have missed out.”

Also worth noting in an interview he said he wanted his forwards to be comfortable carrying the ball - maybe points to a more positive game plan?

I think there's more going on we don't know about.

Would you really pick a player from the French 2nd division, who isn't really playing at the top level, over a player starting for one of the best English teams?

I reckon SJ is covering his back from the 7/captain fiasco.

I wonder if we are just reading too much into this whole Brown missing out thing. It could be simply that Cotter knows Stroker better from their time in French rugby, and doesn't think he needs Brown as well.

Perhaps Cotter would prefer a destructive tackler at blind-side, hence the selection of Harley and Stroker.

Feel for Horne, surely having only one genuine inside-centre is a risk considering Dunbar hasn't played for a few weeks. And Horne has been playing well.

Who'd you think Gilchrist will be paired with in the boiler room?

2nd row pairing is an interesting one, because if he goes with Gilchrist and Jonny then we'll have a very inexperienced back 5 (assuming Harley and Cowan are picked)

4 - Gray (5)
5 - Gilchrist (8)
6 - Harley (7)
7 - Cowan (3)
8 - Beattie (32)

Gray jnr is the obvious partner, but I suspect he might go for Gray snr for the more experience. That is one hell of a dynamic 2nd row combo, but with obvious conerns regarding physicality and grit.

I really don't mind either way to be honest!

Nematode wrote:Think I've found something that's gone under the radar:

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12321/9527190/barbarians-name-squad-to-face-australia-at-twickenham

Big Al has been chosen to play for the BaBas.

Old news - Bru beat you to it on the Ongoing Banter thread!

IanBru wrote:The Baabaas have just announced Big Al Kellock as part of their squad to play Australia and Leicester Tigers!

I'm getting all emotional.

Right, been very bored this afternoon, fun fact with a couple of injuries we could end up fielding a team against the All Blacks with fewer total caps than McCaw!

1. Reid (3)
2. Brown (1)
3. Cross (32)
4 - Gray (5)
5 - Gilchrist (8)
6 - Harley (7)
7 - Cowan (3)
8 - Ashe (1)

9. Pyrgos (12)
10. Russell (2)
11. Seymour (10)
12. Dunbar (8)
13. Bennett (0)
14. Maitland (13)
15. Hogg (24)

Total caps 129 - 134 McCaw

Old news - Bru beat you to it on the Ongoing Banter thread!

IanBru wrote:The Baabaas have just announced Big Al Kellock as part of their squad to play Australia and Leicester Tigers!

I'm getting all emotional.

[/quote]

I'm sure Big Al will thrive in that fast paced flowing attacking game plan that the Baa Baas deploy. I would be surprised if he touches the ball.

I would like Cotter to select two 23s, and use one for Argentina and New Zealand and the other for Tonga.

Mine for Argentina and New Zealand:

1.Reid 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.J Gray 5.Gilchrist(c) 6.Harley 7.Cowan 8.Beattie 9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Seymour 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Dickinson 17.Lawson 18.Cross 19.R Gray 20.Strokosch 21.Cusiter 22.Russell 23.Fife

For Tonga:

1.Dickinson 2.Brown 3.Cross 4.Swinson 5.R Gray 6.Strokosch(c) 7.Fusaro 8.Ashe 9.Pyrgos 10.Russell 11.Visser 12.Taylor 13.Bennett 14.Fife 15.Hogg

16.Reid 17.Lawson 18.Murray 19.J Gray 20.Beattie 21.Cusiter 22.Heathcote 23.S Lamont

First choice for the big two, plus consistency, and then an opportunity to take a look at other players against Tonga.

Plan to be at the Tonga game.
Anyone ever been to Rugby Park and have suggestions on where best to sit/stand/slump/cower (stature directly correlated to on-field performance)?
Thx

at least time is on our side for once as far as the backs are concerned.
we should get at least 3-4 good years out this mob

Maitland 26
Seymour 26
Visser 27
Hogg 22
Dunbar 24
Scott 24
Bennet 21
Pyrgos 25
Russell 22
Weir 23

Beeb reporting that Scotland have lost out to france in the bidding to host the 7's from next season onwards.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Beeb reporting that Scotland have lost out to france in the bidding to host the 7's from next season onwards.

Read that as well.
Looks like the feel,good factor from the 7s at ibrox could be very short lived

No surprise really - 7s never really got going in Scotland, and has pretty much died a death when it was moved to Glasgow!

Not a bad trigger for just dropping out of sevens completely.

Just read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29704288

In February, Rokoduguni, having had no contact from the Fiji Rugby Union for more than a year, played for England Saxons against Scotland (who he could also have represented) but was hampered by a knee injury and failed to impress.

He's in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, how on earth did we not spot him or even pick him earlier. We used to be good at discovering everyone who had even the slightest connection to Scotland.

I obviously don't watch Gilcho enough because I'm staggered that such a youngfeller should be given the captain's armband when guys like Cusiter have the experience and we have taken bad tactical decisions before in recent games which have proven costly. However, the undeniable thing about Gilchrist is that successive coaches have been impressed with what they have seen, so who am I to argue with that?

On the basis that this means Gilchrist will almost certainly start, then I would like to see:

01 Reid
02 Ford
03 Murray
04 J. Gray
05 Gilchrist (c)
06 Harley
07 Cowan
08 Beattie

09 Cusiter
10 Russell
11 Visser
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Dickinson
17 Brown
18 Cross
19 R.Gray
20 Fusaro
21 Laidlaw
22 Weir
23 Maitland

Tough on Duncan Taylor and Adam Ashe, who have played well recently, but we need to start sticking to teams who are going to win. And yes, I would play the same team for Argentina as well as the All Blacks.

To be fair, we've hardly done well with 'experienced' captains running the show over the last decade so what difference will an inexperienced one make?

Being a big hairy forward he's maybe more likely to go for a kick to the corner or attacking scrum than a kick at goal if his adrenaline is up and blood is pumping, but I suspect VC will have run through with him what he expects him to do in terms of penalty decisions.

RDW_Scotland wrote: Being a big hairy forward he's maybe more likely to go for a kick to the corner or attacking scrum than a kick at goal if his adrenaline is up and blood is pumping, but I suspect VC will have run through with him what he expects him to do in terms of penalty decisions.

No. He plays for Edinburgh, so he will be immacuately waxed, buffed and exfoliated, with his pores sucked by FES' Danish female dermatologist every fortnight. Lucky barsteward.

madmaccas wrote:Just read this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29704288

In February, Rokoduguni, having had no contact from the Fiji Rugby Union for more than a year, played for England Saxons against Scotland (who he could also have represented) but was hampered by a knee injury and failed to impress.

He's in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, how on earth did we not spot him or even pick him earlier. We used to be good at discovering everyone who had even the slightest connection to Scotland.

Is it not the case that members of the UK armed forces not otherwise qualified are eligible to play for any of the home countries? A bit like Channel Islanders. They would be unlikely to qualify on normal residence grounds as they move around too often.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote: Being a big hairy forward he's maybe more likely to go for a kick to the corner or attacking scrum than a kick at goal if his adrenaline is up and blood is pumping, but I suspect VC will have run through with him what he expects him to do in terms of penalty decisions.

No. He plays for Edinburgh, so he will be immacuately waxed, buffed and exfoliated, with his pores sucked by FES' Danish female dermatologist every fortnight. Lucky barsteward.

If only!

I'd be hugely surprised if Cotter goes for Gilchrist and Jonny in the engine room against the All Blacks. Rightly or wrongly. I think he'll see the experience of Richie as being key.

I can't make up my mind about the front row. Does he stick with Ford or go for Lawson? Does Dickinson offer more with a decent pack around him, than Reid? Neither Cross nor Murray have been playing stacks of rugby.

The pack is going to be a tricky balance of giving guys time to gel as relatively new units, giving form players like Gordon Reid, Jonny Gray and Blair Cowan their chance and retaining enough experience to cope with the All Blacks and what Id expect to be a very tight Argentina match.

That's going to be very tricky and may mean we concede a cricket score against the All Blacks and lose 'heroically' to the Argies.

I'd expect Cotter to go with experience against the Blacks and to give some of the alternative guys their chance against the Argies and Tonga. I suppose we are building for the RWC now...

I think the backs pick themselves at the moment and they look very exciting (albeit it with a slightly weird looking bench). I just hope the forwards can supply them with enough ball.

Here's my 23 for the All Blacks

01 Dickinson
02 Lawson
03 Murray
04 R. Gray
05 Gilchrist (c)
06 Harley
07 Cowan
08 Beattie

09 Cusiter
10 Weir
11 Maitland
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Reid
17 Ford
18 Cross
19 J.Gray
20 Strokosh
21 Laidlaw
22 Lamont
23 Taylor or Visser

I agree with your assumption that VC will go with Richie's experience rather than Jonny, albeit that I don't agree. Still, not a bad choice to have to make.

I would personally use these AIs to give Brown some rugby at hooker, and see little advantage of using Lawson. If we want an experienced option then I would take Ford over Lawson. As for the props, I don't think there's an obvious option. Cross and Dickinson is the combination that gives you the most in the loose, whereas the Rev and Reid the most bulk. I would suggest that against Argentina we pick our biggest front row then perhaps review against NZ depending on how they do.

I really do have a concern that VC is going to do something that catches us all unawares, like pick Low in the 2nd row, Strokosh at 6 and Fusaro at 7 or something like that.

When has anyone on here managed to get a Scotland team selection 100% right in recent times??

nickj wrote:

I think the backs pick themselves at the moment and they look very exciting (albeit it with a slightly weird looking bench). I just hope the forwards can supply them with enough ball.

I would say that the outside backs pick themselves, but not so sure about half backs. I think all three SH's are playing well and are in the mix and I am pretty sure that Finn Russell will start at least one of the games. VC was talking him up the other day and clearly does seem to rate him.

In all honesty I think most if not all of the squad will get some game time due to injuries and rotation in three very abrasive games, probably a few others as well. The squad is so much more competitive this time around, players really need to put down their markers when they get the chance.

Agreed. 11-15 is easy, but 9 and 10 is hard to call, with all the squad options in contention.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really do have a concern that VC is going to do something that catches us all unawares, like pick Low in the 2nd row, Strokosh at 6 and Fusaro at 7 or something like that.

When has anyone on here managed to get a Scotland team selection 100% right in recent times??

Depends on how much VC wants to win vs test out some combinations. For example, the best attacking 9-15 might be something like Cusiter, Russell, Seymour, Dunbar, Bennett, Maitland, Hogg. But VC might want to keep Weir and play say Laidlaw, Weir, Visser, Dunbar, Taylor, Fife, Hogg.

Basically, when the team is announced, if there are some thoughts, it's probably more just to get the whole squad playing rather than a polished XV.

The thing I am most scared of is that he'll pick Laidlaw at 9.

This is the first time in recent memory where we have a 10 like Russell that can properly attack the gain line. For that, he needs quick, snappy ball. To pick Laidlaw negates the entire point of picking Russell and would be the stupidest thing of all time. I agree entirely with this piece in the Hootsmon today:

THE most encouraging news from the Scotland squad announcement by Vern Cotter yesterday was the inclusion of young Glasgow stand-off Finn Russell. This dynamic 22-year-old is just the player the national team requires for the upcoming Autumn Tests.

Scotland’s well-documented difficulties at stand-off have been the subject of criticism and at times mockery since the dawn of the inaugural Six Nations. The centre pairing of Alex Dunbar and Mark Bennett is sound, as is the back three of Sean Maitland, Stuart Hogg and Tim Visser. But in recent years the lack of attacking potency from the out-halves has beggared belief.

This is where Russell will make a difference. At last, perhaps for the first time since Gregor Townsend, Scotland has a natural attacking stand-off, and it is no wonder that Russell’s exuberance has already made him a crowd favourite at Glasgow.

Stand-offs these days are becoming more than just the speed bump for the opposition’s inside centres. They have to be robust. Russell has significant attacking savvy too, and takes the ball right up to the line. His manipulation of the opposition’s defence creates space for runners off him and invariably frees space for pacy wingers like Maitland out wide.

Selection against Argentina might be seen as a drastic, sink-or-swim scenario for Russell, but Scotland have very little to lose. They have been unnecessarily conservative for far too long, and need to try out a more expansive game against the Pumas if they are even to be competitive against the All Blacks a week later.

Given that, until the summer of 2012, Russell was still playing for Ayr in the BT Premiership, questions will inevitably be asked about his age and lack of experience. But the evidence so far suggests he has the versatility and the mental composure that is required to develop into a world-class stand-off.

As Cotter said of Russell: “He asks questions of the defence and is different.” Different, that is, from the incumbent No 10, his Glasgow team-mate Duncan Weir.

There is nothing irredeemably bad about Weir’s game, but it is more predictable and mechanical. Defenders don’t fear Weir as much as they will Russell, and know that, on balance, Weir opts for the boot instead of hands in the opposition 22.

Cotter’s emphasis on “developing an attack that will give us opportunities to score tries” should place Russell’s unpredictability and understanding with Dunbar and Bennett firmly at the heart of the coach’s thinking for the Autumn Tests.

The 2000s saw chronic indecision from the Scotland management in an effort to settle on a first-choice stand-off. What they eventually did was squander the chance of a genuine attacking threat from Chris Paterson in the ten jersey by playing him at full-back. Russell’s promise in the position is similar to that offered by Paterson at the same age; this time, the potential for Scotland to have an outstanding playmaker should not be ignored.

The national team has tried many options in this position in recent years, among them Ruaridh Jackson, Dan Parks and Phil Godman, but none has had quite the sense of expectation that Russell brings. Playing in a side that scores tries, Russell is used to having runners off him; and with Dunbar and Bennett both selected by Cotter, it would be no surprise to see this trio get a run in at least one of the Tests.

Russell is far less experienced than Weir, who has 15 caps to his two, as well as far more outings for Glasgow. But Cotter is unperturbed by this lack of match practice. “He comes from an efficient camp, and they [Glasgow] do plenty match simulations,” said the New Zealander.

The Southern Hemisphere deal with the issue of age rather differently. The motto seems to be: if you’re good enough, you’re old enough. Fighting for the spot with the All Blacks, Aaron Cruden and Beauden Barrett both started their international careers at the tender age of 21.

South Africa have followed the same process with a pair barely out of high school. Johan Goosen and Handré Pollard both came from seemingly nowhere to Test starters, and 20-year-old Pollard bagged two tries and 14 points against the All Blacks at the start of the month.

While clearly not at the level of the All Blacks just yet, Russell has already learned his trade in the toughest school.

His time with the MacPhail Scholarship in Christchurch, New Zealand in 2013 – a scheme that has also advanced the career of new Scotland captain Grant Gilchrist – has helped make Russell a revelation in his short tenure as a professional.

Whatever Cotter plans for the Argentina match, sooner or later he will surely turn to Russell.

A potent threat at number ten provides the solid attacking platform that Scotland so 
desperately need, and Russell has the potential to do great things.

I'm surprised so many people are suggesting Maitland should start. He's only had one full pro game back from injury and isn't firing on all cylinders yet. Really he's lucky to even be picked considering some of the omissions who are playing well. We either have form players or we don't. Tim Visser has played well and been the only try scoring threat in the Edinburgh backs (whole team really) so far this term.

I like Maitland a lot but surely he would be better served as a bench player to cover variety of positions leaving our most potent try scorer to do his job.

Maitland looked like he was firing on all cylinders on Saturday, I thought he played very well!

Laidlaw as well looks a much better player for his move and seems to have concentrated on getting the ball out to Hook quickly for Gloucester. He is a very good advert for players needing a change of scenery in fact. It hopefully has rejuvenated him and seems to have changed the way he plays.

As I said earlier we now have three decent SH's and a few youngsters snapping around behind them. It is probably the most competitive position in the squad at the moment!

GC - That's a cracking article from the Hootsman. I entirely agree, and it tallies with what many of us have been saying on here for a while.

BigGee wrote:Maitland looked like he was firing on all cylinders on Saturday, I thought he played very well!

He did play well, but after one game we can't possibly say he's one of the form wingers. No other players would be picked after just 2 (my mistake about it being 1) games back following an injury layoff. Old Timbo has been on fine scoring form, especially considering he's been playing behind a poor Edinburgh pack and outside of "can't pass won't pass" Strauss. Imagine the damage he'll cause with the likes Dunbar and Bennett in the midfield!

Also, as I said Maitland is a good utility players so for his 3rd game back it should really be a bench effort covering the back 3.

I disagree with the Assessment of Weir in that hootsmon article.  Its become a matter of faith that Weir kicks the ball a lot - however if you look at the stats its really not at all true and he is playing himself into good form right now.  Russell is the high risk option for sure -but weir is a decent attacking player in his own right.  Weir kicked the ball 6 times of the 28 passes he received against Bath.  He put Bennet in for his first try and made some other great passes. He also made 10 tackles. laidlw has been much better playing for Glouster - not behind a retreating pack will help. I'd still have Cus as first choice tho

Weir certainly has been attacking the line much better the last few games.

The problem is at international level he's always looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights!

RDW - indeed - but he has had two seasons ruined by injury and by being sat on the bench for internationals rather than playing. Now he is playing regularly he looks much better. Russell is probably the more daring player - but its a high risk strategy to play him. Its a bit Townsend / Chalmers IMO

I have a feeling we will see Russell starting this week, apart from anything, Weir looked like he got clattered towards the end of the Bath game, but I suspect Toonie would have played him anyway!

Weir has played so much better this year and genuinely does look like an international player at times. He still seems to make a couple of howlers per game though, a charge down, a kick straight into touch. He needs to cut those out if he wants the shirt, international rugby is even less forgiving than the professional club game.

I am a bit torn on this one and have a lot of time for both players. Russell's potential is obvious but still mainly untapped but I am also impressed by the way that Weir has risen to the challenge. He was playing for his professional future this year and so far has passed the test. Whether he can really do it at international level though remains to be seen.

VC is of course going to have to choose and choose soon. I expect he will give them both some game time over the course of the AI, make up his mind, then run with that choice for the 6N and the world cup. I suspect he is going to go with Russell though.