England 38 man squad

by robshaw4england Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:45 am

First topic message reminder :

With the squad set to be selected on Wednesday, I'd be interested to see what players people would like to see included.
This would be my squad in no particular order...

01: J.Marler (Quins) A.Waller (Saints) M.Mullan (Wasps)*
02: R.Webber (Bath) D.Hartley (Saints) J.Gray (Quins)
03: D.Wilson (Bath) H.Thomas (Bath) K.Brookes (Newcastle)
04: J.Launchberry (Wasps) G.Kitchener (Leicester)
05: D.Attwood (Bath) C.Lawes (Saints)
06. T.Wood (Saints) J.Haskell (Wasps)
07. C.Robshaw (Quins) W.Fraser (Saracens) M.Kvesic (Gloucester)*
08: B.Vunipola (Saracens) B.Morgan (Gloucester)

Injured: Corbisiero, Vunipola, Youngs, Cole, Slater, Parling, Croft, Garvey, Fearns, Johnson, Dickinson.

09: D.Care (Quins) B.Youngs (Leicester) L.Dickson (Saints)
10: D.Cipriani (Sale) G.Ford (Bath) O.Farrell (Saracens)
11. M.Yarde (Irish) A.Watson (Bath)
12. B.Barritt (Saracens) K.Eastmond (Bath) B.Twelvetrees (Gloucester)*
13. L.Burrell (Saints) J.Joseph (Bath)
14. S.Rokodeguni (Bath) C.Ashton (Saracens)*
15. M.Brown (Quins) B.Foden (Saints) A.Goode (Saracens)

Injured: Allen, Tuilagi, Trinder.

*Marler isn't having the most consistent seasons, whilst Waller is thriving for Saints in Corbisiero's absence. I could see him pressing Marler for a spot in the test XV

*The back row is our most competitive area. With all 5 of our flanker options the official 7's for their clubs; Quins, Saints, Saracens, Wasps and Gloucester respectively. I expect to see Fraser or Kvesic given a starting birth against Samoa.

*I reluctantly picked Twelvetrees, due to his ineffectiveness against better sides. However, Lancaster has faith in him so i'll give him the spot. If Eastmond is fully fit, his form merits a starting position.

*The wings are very open. There are a number of players who must be close to selection including May (LW) Strettle (LW) Sharples (RW) Nowell (RW) and Wade (RW) Chris Ashton really is in the last chance saloon.

This would be my XV to play New Zealand in the first test. Subs in brackets.

01. J.Marler (A.Waller)
02. D.Hartley (R.Webber)
03. D.Wilson (H.Thomas)
04. J.Launchberry (C.Lawes)
05. D.Attwood
06. T.Wood (J.Haskell)
07. C.Robshaw
08. B.Vunipola
09. D.Care (B.Youngs)
10. O.Farrell (D.Cipriani)
11. A.Watson
12. L.Burrell (K.Eastmond)
13. J.Joseph
14. C.Ashton
15. M.Brown

This would be my XV to play Samoa. Mostly squad players to be given a chance. Subs in brackets.

01. A.Waller (M.Mullan)
02. R.Webber (J.Gray)
03. H.Thomas (K.Brookes)
04. C.Lawes (G.Kitchener)
05. D.Attwood
06. J.Haskell
07. W.Fraser (M.Kvesic)
08. B.Morgan
09. B.Youngs (L.Dickson)
10. G.Ford (D.Cipriani)
11. M.Yarde
12. K.Eastmond
13. J.Joseph
14. S.Rokodeguni
15. B.Foden (A.Goode)

by beshocked Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:22 pm

FES Armitage is not in England contention so shouldn't be considered.

Well if it's Lancaster's thought process that Haskell or Wood should play 7 then he's got it wrong again sadly.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:01 pm

It would be Wood I would think. In regards to the backrow its looked good and well balanced maybe he just doesnt want to rock the boat. We re also likely to have 2 2nd rowers who are pretty good on the deck.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:16 pm

Clark is a good bench option, he covers 6,7 and lock where he often plays for Saints albeit when they want to bring on another backrower. Just because he has a deserved reputation for being a thuggish idiot on occasions, don't down rate his ability. He is very good on the ground, if he gets over the ball he is a rock and not easily shifted. He has the muscle that RobWood doesn't, a bit like Haskell with a big skill set and quicker with a motor that allows him to go for all 80 minutes.

He is a typical Saints player, not a lot of flash, but a team player that can do a lot of different things at a high level; whether that level is test level has yet to be found out.

by jamesandimac Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:45 pm

I like the look of the backrow options and it certainly ties in with how England have been utilising their flankers. All big, all abrasive, good in defence, good in the collision areas, good over the ball, and all team players with huge engines. I think it will work. Add in the big lumps at 8 and whatever combination you pick could do a job.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:05 pm

I'm very surprised with the knocking of Clark on here. Yes he's been a thug and has a real nasty side but anybody watching this season would understand he's been playing superbly surely?

His work rate and aggression at the breakdown is quite possibly unmatched in the AP and he's superb over the ball (better than Kvesic, Robshaw and maybe Fraser too). It's no surprise Saints pack doesn't look as good without him in, he's an outstanding player.

by Welly Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:42 pm

Disagree about his breakdown ability poorly he is a solid player with a good work rate.

But there are better 6's IMO Wood, Haskell, Ewers ahead I him and then there is a fit Croft. Although age is against him Lund would be up there and Gibson is impressing.

There are better 7's Robshaw (?), Kevisc, Fraser and Seymour.

He isn't going to be in the 23 other than the samoa game.

We have enough work horses ATM we need to look at specialist players I could understand maybe Clark for wood or Haskell although Haskell. Has outplayed Clark when they faced each other and in the league in general..

As for Lancaster he was what wa needed at the time but honestly I feel he won't be able to take us to the next level.

by GLove39 Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:52 pm

Regardless of his ability, I wouldn't want Clark playing for my club or my country.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:57 pm

I can't agree with any of that Welly.

I've been really watching Clark this season and he's much more than a work horse. His clearing out is superb (a skill that gets often missed) and his ground work is a class above most of those players mentioned imo. His tackling is agressive and often drives people back rather stoping them, these things are just as important as carrying. He's not a flashy player agreed but he's a players player and does high quality work, his physicality is quite unique for a English player.

I'd be more than happy for Clark to line up alongside Haskell/Wood & Billy/Morgan, he's a fantastic player who has come on leaps over the last season.

Glove - thats quite a odd view for me. Burger, Bakkies, Mealamu etc etc have all acted like thugs at one moment or another over time but are quality players, would you not want them involved if avaialble? Rugby isn't football, sometimes players cross the line and Clark has paid for his errors.

by GLove39 Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:08 pm

To be perfectly truthful no, there's no doubting the players you list are quality players, but I'd feel uneasy knowing that my team were paying the wages of people who've attempted to break opponents necks or blind them.

by Welly Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:18 pm

Sorry pooled still think your wrong Seymour is a way better player than him ATM, yet he hasn't ever been looked at by Lancaster.

As said before Lancaster has been desperate to get him in the squad sooner or later all down to his leeds days.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:27 pm

I really can't see anything in Seymour as an International player Welly, he's nowhere near good enough.

Glove, fair enough...you don't want much! A team of angels is pretty hard to find. Most forwards have had some indiscretion at some point.

by Cyril Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 pm

GLove39 wrote:I'd feel uneasy knowing that my team were paying the wages of people who've attempted to break opponents necks or blind them.

Who has done that?

by Welly Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Yeh broke another's players arm deliberatly not neck.

by nathan Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:57 pm

I watched Clark lots this season and i can't see this supposed class form that you talk off.

by GLove39 Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:05 pm

Cyril wrote:
GLove39 wrote:I'd feel uneasy knowing that my team were paying the wages of people who've attempted to break opponents necks or blind them.
Who has done that?

I was referring to Poolys example of Mealamu re the neck.

by kingelderfield Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:23 pm

Can you believe it, on the very day my 8th November ticket is confirmed for Twickenham and old stewie lancaster decides to bomb the party with a bag full of duff selections.....

one is learning to compromise by means of serene detachment.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:49 pm

Two Tigers fans not rating Clark.... Wink

by **LondonTiger** Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:55 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Two Tigers fans not rating Clark....

I think Clark is an excellent player. From what i have seen of him (from a playing ability point of view) he has impressed me much more than board favourites such as Ewers, Garvey and Fearns who i all feel do some showy runs then feck of and have a cup of tea for half an hour.

If you look at the four flankers chosen, they are all pretty similar and have played for their clubs at 6 and 7. Certainly looks like we will be going down the L & R route.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:58 pm

Trust you to spoil my theory LT!

I'd agree on Ewers, he's a good carrier but seems to lack the fitness/speed at the minute to make much of an impact. I think a lot of posters on 606 rate a forward for his carrying alone.

by quinsforever Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:59 pm

Solid looking 33. Very solid. Even missing a world class front row.

But again, it's all about the key combinations all over the pitch...

i reckon the front row will be fine, although we struggled in the 6Ns a bit imho.
2nd row - lawes/launchbury, sorted. lineout kings and awesome engines.
back row - all solid, without being exceptional

9/10 combo. this is absolutely critical and there are a range of styles in our 33
12/13 combo. ditto.
wings. hope he is going to start with roko and may/yarde (think may gets nod on form)
fb. brown. obviously.

it's all about the 9/10 combination and 12/13 combo, especially without tuilagi.

by Welly Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:16 am

It's not just tigers fans who think it is a waste of a pick pooley.

Wouldn't say Fearns is a show pony either LT.

by Sgt_Pooly Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:27 am

Well I'm happy to agree to disagree Welly, hopefully he'll get a chance to impress

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:48 am

I think Alex Goode has the right kind of attitude for Lancaster and a high degree of reliability.

My worry about his inclusion is that an injury in the back three sees him or Brown on the wing - or even Manu moved there, and Farrell switched to the centres. None of those options fills me with confidence. I just don't think we can afford to take the risk of having Goode as cover for Brown in the match day squad.

Lancaster likely doesn't see this as a problem, since they both played together when England beat New Zealand. Goode is also a goalkicking option in a squad which relies almost entirely on the flyhalf to never have an off day.

I really don't mind if our coaching teams see Wood, Haskell and Clark as all able to cover seven should Robshaw be injured. I do mind that none of them have started a test in that position. We can't just take it for granted that a rebalanced back row will be up to the job at international level.

I don't like the back three options mentioned above, but at least you can say that Manu and Brown have started for Lancaster on the wing. I want to see Robshaw standing down from the starting XV - preferably the matchday squad - for one of these Tests so we can see how another seven fares. It also obliges us to have another captain.

by kingelderfield Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:36 am

Rugby Fan wrote:I think Alex Goode has the right kind of attitude for Lancaster and a high degree of reliability.

My worry about his inclusion is that an injury in the back three sees him or Brown on the wing - or even Manu moved there, and Farrell switched to the centres. None of those options fills me with confidence. I just don't think we can afford to take the risk of having Goode as cover for Brown in the match day squad.

Lancaster likely doesn't see this as a problem, since they both played together when England beat New Zealand. Goode is also a goalkicking option in a squad which relies almost entirely on the flyhalf to never have an off day.

I really don't mind if our coaching teams see Wood, Haskell and Clark as all able to cover seven should Robshaw be injured. I do mind that none of them have started a test in that position. We can't just take it for granted that a rebalanced back row will be up to the job at international level.

I don't like the back three options mentioned above, but at least you can say that Manu and Brown have started for Lancaster on the wing. I want to see Robshaw standing down from the starting XV - preferably the matchday squad - for one of these Tests so we can see how another seven fares. It also obliges us to have another captain.

Goode is not international quality. Did you see him against Clemont? I lost count of the number of high balls he was beaton too. Good club level NOTHING MORE.

by No 7&1/2 Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:51 am

kingelderfield wrote:Can you believe it, on the very day my 8th November ticket is confirmed for Twickenham and old stewie lancaster decides to bomb the party with a bag full of duff selections.....

one is learning to compromise by means of serene detachment.

I'll have your ticket!

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:27 am

jamesandimac wrote:I like the look of the backrow options and it certainly ties in with how England have been utilising their flankers. All big, all abrasive, good in defence, good in the collision areas, good over the ball, and all team players with huge engines. I think it will work. Add in the big lumps at 8 and whatever combination you pick could do a job.

This is the one area im not totally convinced by the pack and why ive called for a few other bruisers in there.

Collisions are hugely important and as Sgt P aluded to in the posting below....knocking people back in the tackle is a huge thing. Bar Lawes odd huge hit im not sure we have that "aggressive" defence.

I've been really watching Clark this season and he's much more than a work horse. His clearing out is superb (a skill that gets often missed) and his ground work is a class above most of those players mentioned imo. His tackling is agressive and often drives people back rather stoping them, these things are just as important as carrying. He's not a flashy player agreed but he's a players player and does high quality work, his physicality is quite unique for a English player.

Clearing out is something England are woefully poor at. Look at New Zealand and they are ruthlessly aggressive in this area. Even counter attacking when they havent got the ball - they're fast, physical and brutal. This is what i want from my players...but im not sure we get that from Wood (maybe im doing Wood a disservice) or Robshaw...or any of the rest of the pack...aside from maybe Launchbury who seems very good in that area.

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:38 am

I read on a different forum that they are going to add a further seven players to the squad and these are likely to include;

Henry Slade, Anthony Watson, Matt Kvesic, Richard Wigglesworth, David Paice, Graham Kitchener and Henry Thomas

I just don't understand the Wigglesworth selection, if it is true. He's a decent enough player, but how many scrumhalves do we need? Three have already been selected!

I'm surprised and disappointed that Cipriani, Foden and Wade seem no closer to the squad. Shocked

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:44 am

I would give Slad a bit of time with the sneior squad...good experience for him.

And i think Kitchener is a must as has been mentioned above. Great form...and the guy is an absolute monster.

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:50 am

Yeah, Slade is a player I like. He seems to have the confidence that is being bred in English grade players now. In the most positive way possible he seems to play the game in an efficient and simple way that breeds confidence in people around him (when he plays 10 anyway). I haven't really seen him play in the centres, is that a temporary or permanent move? He looks a classy 10 to me.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:57 am

Apologise for not reading through all the posts but as a neutral home come Wade isn't in squad but May is?

In the games I have seen May looked way off the rest of your back line and was for me the weak link

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:00 am

Not sure if his moves are temporary or permanent...though Baxters a very impressive HC and i suspect he's just making sure Slade gets gametime and growing experience at Prem level, whilst a more experienced FH keeps the Exeter train running nicely.

Ive briefly mentioned it above...but whats your feeling on our ability in the collisions and clearing out / counter rucking.
Would you agree its an area we are lacking in...is it the players themselves or is it the coaching. I always thought Wood was excellent and aggressive in those areas...but im not sure i see it much in a White shirt.

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:03 am

May has been playing very well and scoring tries Bedford.

Wade hasnt really hit form since his return from injury coupled with dropping some clangers defensively recently, they have maybe thought to give him a little more time with Wasps.

However we are just hearing that another 8 are to be added and he is expected to be one of them.

Both May and Wade really appeal to me...but both have areas of their game they need to improve considerably.

by nathan Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:05 am

There are elements of pushing people back in the tackle. For instance Ashton (of all players!) against south Africa. I think we have shown good intensity around the breakdown in games. A couple of times against new Zealand but I agree it needs to far more often

by Tiger/Chief Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:14 am

Re Henry Slade he is giving Exeter that second left footed kicking option, with Sam Hill on Crash ball duty at 12 Slade is offering width and silky footwork at 13, bringing others into the gane and scoring 3 try's in his last 3 games.

Along of Exeter fans and Pundits were concerned about pairing the 2 academy lads in the centre but they've yet to be overawed by any opponents!

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:28 am

Along of Exeter fans and Pundits were concerned about pairing the 2 academy lads in the centre but they've yet to be overawed by any opponents!

I think its great to see Exeter giving so many young academy players a go.

Funnily enough we played two young academy lads in the Euro game against Bucharest (i know they're not close to a premier club standard...aside from London Welsh) but the lads were brilliant and scored 3 tries between them.

I think we might see them get a few more run outs maybe even a brief premiership outing.

by beshocked Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:36 am

I personally wouldn't have Wigglesworth in the England squad but in his defence he did play very well vs Clermont in my opinion. His quick tap for example resulted in a try.

England's loss is Saracens' gain in terms of Will Fraser and Jamie George.

I wouldn't pick Goode - he's not been as good this season and as kingelderfield says - he was poor under the high ball vs Clermont - pretty uncharacteristic actually.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:49 am

Interesting article in the guardian about Lancaster not having room for 'flash' players in his squad:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/22/stuart-lancaster-jonny-wilkinson-england-autumn-tests

I think it explains how the likes of Alex Goode (and to a lesser extent, Myler) keep making squads: He's fairly consistent in terms of his skill execution, but lacks an x-factor at the top level. I have to say that I don't understand that thinking. To me, it's saying that it's better to have a lesser player who plays to his limit every time, rather than a player who has a fuller game, but might make the odd mistake. In some cases, I can understand that. However, when it means selecting someone who is essentially a solid club player over a guy who looks like he belongs at international level (although may need to add consistency), I can't see how you can ever aspire to build a top level team.

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:00 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Not sure if his moves are temporary or permanent...though Baxters a very impressive HC and i suspect he's just making sure Slade gets gametime and growing experience at Prem level, whilst a more experienced FH keeps the Exeter train running nicely.

Ive briefly mentioned it above...but whats your feeling on our ability in the collisions and clearing out / counter rucking.
Would you agree its an area we are lacking in...is it the players themselves or is it the coaching. I always thought Wood was excellent and aggressive in those areas...but im not sure i see it much in a White shirt.

It's better than it was a few years ago, although that is damning with feint praise! My reading of the situation is that we currently employ players that are more often than not able to gain parity with an opponent, but never really completely dominate. We have players like Launchbury who have huge work-rates that smother the opposition with tackles rather than smashing them back.

The problem comes when we come up against teams that are cohesive and hell bent on winning the collision. In this situations our players sometimes look like they are waves breaking themselves on rocks. Our backs aren't often able to conjure something out of nothing like in some nations, we run out of ideas and panic, as happened in Cardiff a couple of years ago.

The thing is I don't really think things are going to change all that much, Clark is a player I 'like' for his playing abilities but he isn't going to change things on his own. I'd argue that if you want a team that is going to pile in and dominate the breakdown you are going to want a back five that contains at least one massive lock, a heavy duty blind-side and a burgling no 7. Lancaster doesn't seem to want to go in that direction.

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:11 am

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:Interesting article in the guardian about Lancaster not having room for 'flash' players in his squad:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/22/stuart-lancaster-jonny-wilkinson-england-autumn-tests

I think it explains how the likes of Alex Goode (and to a lesser extent, Myler) keep making squads: He's fairly consistent in terms of his skill execution, but lacks an x-factor at the top level. I have to say that I don't understand that thinking. To me, it's saying that it's better to have a lesser player who plays to his limit every time, rather than a player who has a fuller game, but might make the odd mistake. In some cases, I can understand that. However, when it means selecting someone who is essentially a solid club player over a guy who looks like he belongs at international level (although may need to add consistency), I can't see how you can ever aspire to build a top level team.

That is kind of worrying, England so often lack that spark of creativity when 'Plan A' isn't working. I sit and imagine a situation where we're playing with Farrell and we're losing because our game plan isn't working. I turn to the bench and see Myler and tell him 'Go change the game', can he do it? Or would I wish Cipriani was there because we're losing anyway and he'll at least try something outside of the box?

by **LondonTiger** Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:11 am

how many teams in the upper echelons of World rugby follow that pattern Cumbrian?

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:12 am

Sorry, which of my posts are you referring to?

by **LondonTiger** Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:17 am

Cumbrian wrote:I'd argue that if you want a team that is going to pile in and dominate the breakdown you are going to want a back five that contains at least one massive lock, a heavy duty blind-side and a burgling no 7. Lancaster doesn't seem to want to go in that direction.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:25 am

kingelderfield wrote:...Goode is not international quality. Did you see him against Clemont? I lost count of the number of high balls he was beaton too. Good club level NOTHING MORE.

He's better than that, and has shown it at Test level. I wouldn't have a problem with a reliable Alex Goode at the back if we had two outstanding wingers to put alongside him. We don't.

If you want to take poor club performance as grounds for exile from the squad, then Mike Brown would be on the out, especially if you are counting dropped high balls. Last weekend saw Ben Foden hand over Northampton's bonus point when his clearance was charged down. The best full back performance so far this season was probably Mat Tait's for Leicester against Quins but he's not consistent either, and injury-prone.

by sad_gimp Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:26 am

Most of Ashton and Strettle's tries are straight run ins made by Sarries stretching defences...neither of them create much and you need that at international level.

Yarde and Roko would be my starters. I wouldn't write off Yarde as quins have been poop thus far.

by Cumbrian Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:38 am

I think most have elements of it, it's not sacrosanct though.

I'd argue that South Africa with players like Etzebeth, Burger and Louw

NZ with Kaino and McCaw (although they seem to have smaller locks).

Australia with Horwill, and Hooper and more if they hadn't lost players to Europe.

Wales with Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate and Warburton/Tipuric.

France; Yoann Maestri, Bernard Le Roux and Thierry Dusautoir/Yannick Nyanga

by beshocked Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:41 am

Mid gen you are very unfair.

Neither of Strettle's tries were run ins on the weekend.

Ashton's does have a few run ins but that's because he's very good at running a good support line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nORSTAUKvM - Not all run ins last season.

As for Alex Goode he is a creator - just watching the highlights of the Saracens-Clermont game again - he's involved in 2 of the tries for Saracens.

England have never really used him in the same way Saracens do.

by Geordie Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:46 am

Cumbrian

The problem comes when we come up against teams that are cohesive and hell bent on winning the collision. In this situations our players sometimes look like they are waves breaking themselves on rocks

.

Spot on. Look at the likes of NZ who we seem to be trying to emulate so much. They arent heavier than us per man...they are mobile...like we are trying to follow...yet they smash the rucks more ferocious, aggresive and importantly...QUICKER than we do.
They look stronger in the collisions.

They actively look to smash beyond the opponent whatever the area...carrying the ball, tackling (smashing the man back), rucking etc...

As for the non flash players that Lancaster wants....i actually listened to this interview yestersday on the radio...i was gobsmacked when he pretty much said he didnt want flash players...he wants top class players with all the skill sets.

Pretty much explains it all. Now whilst i can go along with what he says...you do need that bit of magic to take a team to the next level in my opinion.

PS...for Johnny...England also had the sublime skills of Jason Robinson etc to make that spark.

by beshocked Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:59 am

NZ are so good because they play 1-15 as an unit - backs and forwards can link up together in a cohesive manner. I never feel that way with English forwards and backs.

England don't utilise wingers in an effective manner something I go on and on about. Broken Record

NZ obviously do hence Savea's try count. I know we don't have a winger of Savea's ability but even if we did he wouldn't be as effective in an England side!

Support is probably the key word - both in attack and defence - this is something NZ are so good at. England in comparison need to work in this area.

by bluestonevedder Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:59 am

Not sure if others read the same article, but SL's been contemplating with the idea of playing Farrell at 12 with Ford at 10 (as per the U20s a few years ago), and also mentioned the fact that Kruis can play in the backrow!

I really thought he'd learnt.

Taking nothing away from Farrell but he's a fly-half and we have better options (though none of them great!) at 12

by beshocked Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:02 am

bluestonevedder

Completely agree - it would be madness to put Farrell at 12. He's not fully fit and doesn't really offer a running threat.

Kruis shouldn't be put in the backrow - don't want to see Lawes there again either!

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