England 38 man squad

First topic message reminder :

With the squad set to be selected on Wednesday, I'd be interested to see what players people would like to see included.
This would be my squad in no particular order...

01: J.Marler (Quins) A.Waller (Saints) M.Mullan (Wasps)*
02: R.Webber (Bath) D.Hartley (Saints) J.Gray (Quins)
03: D.Wilson (Bath) H.Thomas (Bath) K.Brookes (Newcastle)
04: J.Launchberry (Wasps) G.Kitchener (Leicester)
05: D.Attwood (Bath) C.Lawes (Saints)
06. T.Wood (Saints) J.Haskell (Wasps)
07. C.Robshaw (Quins) W.Fraser (Saracens) M.Kvesic (Gloucester)*
08: B.Vunipola (Saracens) B.Morgan (Gloucester)

Injured: Corbisiero, Vunipola, Youngs, Cole, Slater, Parling, Croft, Garvey, Fearns, Johnson, Dickinson.

09: D.Care (Quins) B.Youngs (Leicester) L.Dickson (Saints)
10: D.Cipriani (Sale) G.Ford (Bath) O.Farrell (Saracens)
11. M.Yarde (Irish) A.Watson (Bath)
12. B.Barritt (Saracens) K.Eastmond (Bath) B.Twelvetrees (Gloucester)*
13. L.Burrell (Saints) J.Joseph (Bath)
14. S.Rokodeguni (Bath) C.Ashton (Saracens)*
15. M.Brown (Quins) B.Foden (Saints) A.Goode (Saracens)

Injured: Allen, Tuilagi, Trinder.

*Marler isn't having the most consistent seasons, whilst Waller is thriving for Saints in Corbisiero's absence. I could see him pressing Marler for a spot in the test XV

*The back row is our most competitive area. With all 5 of our flanker options the official 7's for their clubs; Quins, Saints, Saracens, Wasps and Gloucester respectively. I expect to see Fraser or Kvesic given a starting birth against Samoa.

*I reluctantly picked Twelvetrees, due to his ineffectiveness against better sides. However, Lancaster has faith in him so i'll give him the spot. If Eastmond is fully fit, his form merits a starting position.

*The wings are very open. There are a number of players who must be close to selection including May (LW) Strettle (LW) Sharples (RW) Nowell (RW) and Wade (RW) Chris Ashton really is in the last chance saloon.

This would be my XV to play New Zealand in the first test. Subs in brackets.

01. J.Marler (A.Waller)
02. D.Hartley (R.Webber)
03. D.Wilson (H.Thomas)
04. J.Launchberry (C.Lawes)
05. D.Attwood
06. T.Wood (J.Haskell)
07. C.Robshaw
08. B.Vunipola
09. D.Care (B.Youngs)
10. O.Farrell (D.Cipriani)
11. A.Watson
12. L.Burrell (K.Eastmond)
13. J.Joseph
14. C.Ashton
15. M.Brown

This would be my XV to play Samoa. Mostly squad players to be given a chance. Subs in brackets.

01. A.Waller (M.Mullan)
02. R.Webber (J.Gray)
03. H.Thomas (K.Brookes)
04. C.Lawes (G.Kitchener)
05. D.Attwood
06. J.Haskell
07. W.Fraser (M.Kvesic)
08. B.Morgan
09. B.Youngs (L.Dickson)
10. G.Ford (D.Cipriani)
11. M.Yarde
12. K.Eastmond
13. J.Joseph
14. S.Rokodeguni
15. B.Foden (A.Goode)

I agree with you Welly.

Has the squad been picked?

It would be a travesty to leave out Fraser. Of course I am biased but surely even Lancaster must acknowledge that specialists are important.

Personally I think

Haskell,Wood,Fraser,Robshaw,Morgan and Billy should be the choices - that's 2 in each position.

beshocked wrote:I agree with you.

Has the squad been picked?

It would be a travesty to leave out Fraser. Of course I am biased but surely even Lancaster must acknowledge that specialists are important.

Personally I think

Haskell,Wood,Fraser,Robshaw,Morgan and Billy should be the choices - that's 2 in each position.

 Yeh I would even have Kevsic, Ewers, Seymour and maybe even Lund ahead of Clark.

 The jack of all trades master of none type selection only works up to a certain point.

But Welly...thats the point. We the fans can see the need for specialists...but Lancaster seems to be so focused on this jack of all type player...Rugby League style,

Its these sorts of selections that making me wonder how far he can take England.

As for the back three...i would not be surprised to see:

11 Nowell
14 Roko
15 Brown

Welly I agree. England have enough 6 options with Robshaw,Haskell and Wood already.

Ewers covers 6 and 8 so I can see your point there. Ksevic instead of Clark sure but I think he's still unproven against the best sides.

I have faith in Lancaster that he will pick Fraser even over his favourite Clark - Fraser obviously put down a marker early on in the season vs Robshaw.

Geordiefalcon I have criticised Nowell a lot but if you want a "winger" that can defend he is probably your man.

GeordieFalcon wrote:But Welly...thats the point. We the fans can see the need for specialists...but Lancaster seems to be so focused on this jack of all type player...Rugby League style,

Its these sorts of selections that making me wonder how far he can take England.

As for the back three...i would not be surprised to see:

11 Nowell
14 Roko
15 Brown

 The point is I am fed up of the media giving Lancaster an arm chair ride.

 How many player has he actually given a shot at England without their being a injury?

 He still hasn't got a first XV sorted let alone what the depth is going to look like behind it.

 Players like Fraser, Kevsic should be involved in the England squad and should have been given game time already against decentish opposition.

 He should have stated either that he wants to give newer players some extensive game time during the 6N or that he is going out to win he has failed to do either.

 Yes there are players like Burrell who got that but only because Manu was injured.

 I'm just fed up of the Lancaster love in he gets when TBH are we playing actually great rugby no just more passionate rugby (which is great but it only takes you so far).



 Players like fraser, Kev, Ewers, Cips, Ford, shouldn't have a question mark over there head by now it should be know if they are ready for internationals yet. could understand Eastmiond and Joesph as they are more recent form players but still he dropped eastmond straight after an impressive NZ test.

 Also how many top flight opposition has Clark played against over Fraser or kevisc?

Geordiefalcon I have criticised Nowell a lot but if you want a "winger" that can defend he is probably your man. .

Beshocked im not saying it would be my choice...im saying thats the sort of back three i can see being his kind of selection. He likes a wing who has the FB style about him...Nowell fits that...and Roko offers power.

The point is I am fed up of the media giving Lancaster an arm chair ride.

Welly
I can see what your saying. He's done well...but there are still areas im not convinced about his performance since his appointment.

I think he needs to perform over AI's and 6n or you will see a shift in the support for him.

PS, I agree totally that he doesnt try players enough.
I like consistant selection...but sometimes players need to be trialled. As you said...Ewers, Fraser, Garvey previously...etc etc. He doesnt expose enough players to the international games to see what they can do.

Welly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:But Welly...thats the point. We the fans can see the need for specialists...but Lancaster seems to be so focused on this jack of all type player...Rugby League style,

Its these sorts of selections that making me wonder how far he can take England.

As for the back three...i would not be surprised to see:

11 Nowell
14 Roko
15 Brown

 The point is I am fed up of the media giving Lancaster an arm chair ride.

 How many player has he actually given a shot at England without their being a injury?

 He still hasn't got a first XV sorted let alone what the depth is going to look like behind it.

 Players like Fraser, Kevsic should be involved in the England squad and should have been given game time already against decentish opposition.

 He should have stated either that he wants to give newer players some extensive game time during the 6N or that he is going out to win he has failed to do either.

 Yes there are players like Burrell who got that but only because Manu was injured.

 I'm just fed up of the Lancaster love in he gets when TBH are we playing actually great rugby no just more passionate rugby (which is great but it only takes you so far).

Players like fraser, Kev, Ewers, Cips, Ford, shouldn't have a question mark over there head by now it should be know if they are ready for internationals yet. could understand Eastmiond and Joesph as they are more recent form players but still he dropped eastmond straight after an impressive NZ test.

 Also how many top flight opposition has Clark played against over Fraser or kevisc?

He has selected Chris Robshaw as his captain, which is probably why he hasn't blooded other openside flankers. How many opensides did New Zealand use when Richie McCaw was fit?

Had he done so he would have been dropping his captain, and rightly criticised for doing so.

But what happens if Robshaw picks up an injury. We are then in the position that we have NO trialed and tested 7 (sorry Right side flanker) to come in and is happy with the systems etc....

Just in relation to Lancaster not giving new caps or helping to establish players, which is more important builing partnerships for the immediate future and world cup or handing caps to the most inform players? When you look at the amount of total caps for the side it's still not many. Building exposure at international level can prove invaluable.

Difference is that McCaw is acknowledge as being one of if not the best 7 in the world.

 Robshaw started off as a 6 and didn't really move to 7 until England picked him, there was nothing stopping Lancaster from picking Robshaw @ 6 and Fraser or Kevsic @ 7 is there.


 Also the point of building parnterships?

 Well what partnership are there at the minute:

 I guess we have in the centres....... Oh wait we don't yet.

 What about the front row ...... That's still up in the air.

 How about the back row no we still don't know about are starting 6 or even 8.

 How about the back 3 oh wait we just have Brown @ 15.

 What about 9 and 10 still debate.

 The only area with a full on partnership is lock with Lawes and Launchbury.

Is Robshaw technically an openside flanker? No not really.

Robshaw can be moved to 6 to accomodate a proper 7.

We should at least try it. 7 is an area we need options. It's indicative of this weakness that S.Armitage was seen as a serious contender.

No disrespect to Robshaw but he's not Mccaw! I wouldn't say he's got the same irreplacable aura.

The player comparable to Mccaw was Hill and England made sure he was in the backrow either at 6 or 7.

Welly, You don't think the forwards are settled? Would be surprised if we didn't see Marler, Hartley, Wilson. Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola, Care, Twelvetrees, Burrell and Brown start against NZ.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Welly, You don't think the forwards are settled? Would be surprised if we didn't see Marler, Hartley, Wilson. Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola, Care, Twelvetrees, Burrell and Brown start against NZ.

 Well Twelvetrees has been dropped according to the daily fail for starters.

Don't read it so wouldn't know. When is it announced?

1PM

 But the mail usually are spot on must have a insider.

 Forwards
Dave Attwood (Bath), K Brookes (Newcastle Falcons), Calum Clark (Northampton), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Graham Kitchener (Leicester), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), H Thomas (Bath), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), R Webber (Bath), D Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton)

Backs
Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton), Kyle Eastmond (Bath), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Stephen Myler (Northampton), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath)

 Is the team they are putting down.

Personally I think Wood and Robshaw too similar to be in the same dream backrow but I guess we can agree to disagree.

Problem I have with Robshaw is I don't think he's much of an inspiration - harsh perhaps but I just think he lacks that edginess. Sure he's a hard worker and good player but I don't really see him as a long term England captain option. He's just too normal. He lacks that hardness that Johnson or Dallaglio had.

I would have same issues with Wood. It's why edgy players like Marler,Hartley and Haskell are getting the nod as captain these days. Admittedly Marler's not really working but the other two are.

Case in point Quins not picking Robshaw as captain - perhaps because they feel he doesn't inspire the players enough or doesn't connect with the youngsters.

I like Robshaw but I don't think his position in the England team is as secure as some think.

If thats true...and they usually are:

The pack is much as i expected (not what i would have selected) and the backs not hugely inspiring....

Interesting. Can't see the starting forward pack changing then. Real step back if Barritt is included though and no Wade would surprise me.

Hard to both criticise Lancaster for not giving enough players sufficient game time, and then at the same time criticising him for not building partnerships.

He has built a back row. Wood, Robshaw and Vunipola/Morgan. He's been pretty consistent there, and yet you criticise him for not chopping and changing.

He has built a second row. Launchbury and Lawes.

He has built a front row. Cole, Hartley and Corbisiero. Again, when fit he has consistenty picked those guys, and as a result of injuries, he's given time to Wilson, Webber, Marler and Vunipola. The only reason you say the front row is "up in the air" is that Cole and Corbisiero are injured whilst Wilson and Marler did a good job. You can't have your cake and eat it. He picked and developed a unit, they go injured and he developed good back up options in each position. What's the beef!?

Onto the backs.

He has been clear about his first choice half backs. Care and Farrell. When fit he picks those guys, and Ben Youngs has had plenty of time to develop as Care's back-up. The debate at 10 has been caused by the recent good form of George Ford. Lancaster has also looked at Burns. I suspect Ford, as a result of his recent form, will get more gametime in the AIs and the 6 Nations. Again, what's the issue?

At centre I would argue that Lancaster has favoured 36 and Tuilagi as his chosen partnership, although injury to Tuilagi pushed Burrell into contention. He has also brought Eastmond forward in the summer at 12, a decision which has been vindicated and then some in my view.

I do agree however that his picks in the back three have been a shambles, and it is the one area where I really don't think he's go it right. Brown at 15 has been a no brainer, so the move to the wing was hugely odd. In terms of back-up he has used both Foden and Goode so I don't think you can argue that there isn't a first choice and good back up at 15. The wings have been more of a mess, but it seems that he's chosen Yarde as his left winger and he chopped and changed on the right wing, in large part down to Ashton's form and confidence fluctuating last season I suspect. Had Wade been fit (not SL's fault) I think we'd have seen Yarde, Wade and Brown as his back three last season, but injuries led him to May and Nowell.

So to summarise. You don't like him dropping players because it prevents partnerships from forming, and you don't like partnerships forming because it prevents lots of players being given opportunities. Could it just be you have a preference for certain players being picked, and you disagree in some cases with those that Lancaster has chosen??

Good summary for me there FES.

beshocked wrote:The player comparable to Mccaw was Hill and England made sure he was in the backrow either at 6 or 7.

He played at No.8 against Australia in 2002 alongside Moody and Back.

FES,

People want to see partnerships forming...its essential and have praised Lancaster for that...however what we are saying is that at certain times when players like Ewers or who ever having been excelling at club level...and may offer something more at international level than the current shirt holders...he has failed to do so unless due to injury.

As Welly said above...should Wood or Robshaw get injured...we know Haskell is capable, Johnson is not.

However we dont know if Ewers, Fraser, Fearns (i accept he is permanently injured), Kvesic are able to step up? Even Callum Clark who is a nailed on squad member has barely actually set foot on the pitch???

Thats the area we are questioning. The intelligence to make subtle changes in selection to trial...when the opportunity is there.

Of course the other point being...its easier to bring on or two players in to a settled lineup than it is to make a host of changes.

Point is funny exiled scot is in his time at England in a fair amount of areas he has failed to do either. he has had 3 years of confidence he hasn't won anything in terms of trophies and he has failed to bring some depth into the squad.

 To go through your points.

 Front row fair enough there
 Back row has been consistent but he has failed to build any depth behind them.
 Half Backs yes Care and Farrell will be 9 and 10 but behind them we have Youngs who is on and off and Ford who has only played in one half of international rugby.
 Centre he doesn't have a clue at 12 and 13 yet ATM. the one player he has been consitant on ATM sounds like he has been dropped.
 Back 3 we are in argeement 

 My main problem is that the partnership he has chosen hasn't shown enough imo and he has failed to create some experienced depth behind it.

 It the year of the WC and we are still looking at number 2 player based on there league form not on any international experience.

agree beshocked. Lancaster seems dead set on keeping similar players and having them out of position.

 I guess to boil it down why pick a player like clark who will be behind Wood and Haskell anyway over a player would could provide a genuine different option at a position where we lack known depth like 7?

 The same went when he was putting Manu on the wing, or even Brown and Foden when there where on the wing.

 Why play someone out of position over giving someone who plays in that position a go and experienced?

I guess the squad is not that surprising really, it would be nice to see Kitchener and Myler get rewarded for their good form. We could really do with a couple of wins first up,so that some of the more fringe players get a start against Samoa. Otherwise, its hard to see when they will get a chance pre WC.

Without Manu its hard to see how our backs are going to have much to trouble the best defences.

I think to an extent the wingers problem has been in part driven by the emergence of a number of (what seemed at the time) real prospects who werent quite ready, coupled with Ashton's international form (for whatever reason) falling away.

If that is indeed the team I'd feel sorry for Foden, Cipriani and possibly Watson in the backs. I would imagine the door is still open for 36 and Burns, just not as 'open' as it has been. Not impressed seeing Goode there.

Still, I would imagine that there is a lot of agreement on the bulk of the squad

FES

Can't argue with the frontrow or 2ndrow development. Lancaster's done well there.

It's the lack of a specialist 7 which is turning into an issue. Not completely Lancaster's fault due to Ksevic and Fraser injuries. Lancaster's obssession with Clark could turn into a problem.

Lack of a back up 10 to Farrell. Again arguably not his fault.

Centres still a mess. injuries haven't helped but still unresolved.

The worst thing you can criticise Lancaster of - making an absolute mess of the wings.

Time and again England have been exposed here.

He's not got the best out of the players selected on the wings for whatever reason.

Strettle and Ashton yet again show they can compete against the best sides in Europe yet for England.....

Is Guildford worse opposition than current international wingers? No of course not!

I blame Lancaster for the failing of our wingers.

It seems that people don't like what he's done in the "back row" but I assume, other than the brain fart of picking Wood at 8 in that one game, that we're really talking about the flanks. Hard to argue with his decision to back Vunipola and Morgan as his first choice 8s. I know that Ewers has become a vogue name in the last few weeks, but I think Lancaster is right to focus on Vunipola and Morgan at this stage and last season. Both uncapped when he took over and have now built experience as starters and impact subs.

The flanker issue is really down to opinion. Lancaster has picked Robshaw as his captain at 7, and so clearly without injury he will keep him there. Most sides do that with their captain, and so it's only natural not to have much depth in the position your captain plays, particularly when your captain, like Robshaw, manages to escape regular injury. I think McCaw is a good example. How many opensides did NZ cap since McCaw was captain, without McCaw being injured?? When John Smit captained the Boks how many hookers got starts? What did Ireland's depth at 13 look like when BOD was fit? It is extremely common for a side to pick a captain and stick with him. It enables his authority to grow. The fact is that this relaly boils down to whether you want an out and out specialist 7 in the side or not (because it's hard to give them experience from the bench given the lack of versatility). Those that do blame Lancaster for not rotating his captain, those that like Robshaw praise him for building a partnership between Robshaw and Wood.

My own view is that now the decision is made to back Robshaw Lancaster should stick with him. The only form compelling enough so far to question the decision for my money was that of Steffon Armitage last season. Kvesic and Fraser for me have not been consistent enough for long enough to oust the England skipper from his jersey (in Fraser's case that's down to injury). I think the bigger debate is actually the 6 jersey, where I think Wood is vulnerable to both Haskell and a returning Tom Croft. But both are experienced internationals so you can hardly say that Lancaster doesn't have good depth at 6.

The debate about 'out and out 7's' goes on and on forever. When things go right such 7's are hugely influential. When it doesn't they can be anonymous bystanders

Beshocked - I do agree with you on the wings. It's Lancaster's biggest area of weakness so far, and his selections have looked muddled, particularly the penchant for picking full backs or centres on the wing. For me it's a specialist position, and you go with the guy with the most form and confidence. It's possibly one area where partnerships matter slightly less, and you can chop and change to get your form/confidence players on the pitch.

I'm less critical of his efforts at centre. He tried to back 36 and Tuilagi but injuries forced his hand, and he went with the back-up options of Eastmond and Burrell. I see little wrong with that, and presume that Joseph will now be looked at for the 13 back-up slot with Manu being injured. The most recent centre error for me was Joel Tompkins. Never an international outside centre.

FES Robshaw is not Mccaw though. Mccaw is irreplacable.

Some players are irreplacable - Robshaw is not one of them.

Robshaw can play at 6 though so he doesn't need to be taken out of the 23.

You talk about good depth in 6 - then why is Lancaster fascinated with Clark?

Fraser has made his case this season by outplaying Robshaw. I am not sure there's much more he can do -almost every single time Fraser starts his team wins. His only real issue is staying fit.

FES stop comparing Robshaw to Mccaw if robshaw was Mccaws standards then I wouldn't have any issue with it.

 in 30 tests matches the only player other than robshaw to play 7 is Haskell for 1 test. The fact was before England started calling for him to play 7 Robshaw was a 6 so why couldn't he have been played 6 for a few tests to give others a look at 7?

 
My biggest issue with this selection is the determination to pick another 6 (Clark who hasn't any experience at international level) over a actual 7 neither may play but why put someone in who has already a minimum of  players directly ahead of him at 6?


 Same thing happened with Ashton know else played 14 until last six nations, and now it's the world cup year and we still don't have a 14 Ashton wasn't exactly setting the world on fire beforehand either so why didn't he just gradually introduced other options in and allowed players a chance. Instead we are havng players making there starting debut against the likes of NZ and SA.

Absolutely agree Welly.

Does anyone really think Clark can offer more than Haskell,Wood or Robshaw? No of course not.

At least with a specialist 7 like Ksevic or Fraser they would only have Robshaw in front of them and as already mentioned he could be moved to 6 if need be.

Whom would people have on the wings in that case?

I wouldn't mind seeing (although Watson has been left out by the sounds of it)

 11) Roko/Wade
 14) Watson/Nowell
 15) Brown

 But I wanted to see that tested first in the 6N's not against the likesSA or NZ's that may be a big ask for them first time out.

 Would like to see if Roko can be our out and out finisher and then have a winger/fullback on the other with the ability to cover Brown when he does his counter attack but also has the finishing ability of a winger.

 Forgot about Wade.

Roko and Wade - nice combo of pace and power.

Wade can't tackle but at least he's exciting to watch. When playing for Lancaster's England on the wing you need to be able to react with little space and time - he's one of the best at dealing with that situation. Better at beating men than an Ashton winger for example.

Roko adds much needed bulk and power.

No point in picking Ashton any more because Lancaster refuses to utilise his strengths.

Yarde isn't in form. Neither is Nowell - though that wouldn't stop Lancaster picking either.

Watson - what's he done this season? Again wouldn't stop Lancaster...

If May can actually focus on running straight and backing himself in 1-on-1 sprints then he could be one hell of a winger...but its ifs and buts...

I also think Nowell is more of a Fb than a winger...but he is still an interesting option and has some skills.

I think we'll see...

11 Nowell
14 Roko
15 Brown

But i would like to see
11 May
14 Roko
15 Brown

With Yarde in the mix also as the one thing England do very well is bringing out of form guys into form....the sign of a good set up.

IF and its a big IF May can for once play like he does at glous then I wouldn't mind seeing him start but that's to be seen.

 Yarde is another that is neither here nor there current club form is very poor but he played well against against NZ.

 TBH as long as it's either (out of that squad) Roko, Yarde, Nowell and May I will be happy and none of this Brown, Goode, or a centre on the wing instead.

beshocked wrote:Wade can't tackle

Wade can tackle. It's his positioning which needs work.

England Senior Squad (33)
Loose-head props
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Tight-head props
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Locks    
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Back rows
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Scrum halves
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Fly halves
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Centres               
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Back threes
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

The following players will not be available for the2014 QBE Internationals: Alex Corbisiero (shoulder), Dan Cole (neck), Tom Croft (knee), Tom Johnson (neck), Geoff Parling (concussion), Chris Pennell (groin), Ed Slater (knee), Mako Vunipola (knee), Tom Youngs (shoulder).

Okay fair enough hammerofthunor - but he's still a defensive liability.

Welly - disagree Yarde's defence against NZ was basically non existent.

Agree about May if he can bring his Gloucester form but unsurprisingly he hasn't.

Kruis ahead of Kitchener WTF I mean Kruis is good but he is similar to Launchbury, Attwood and Lawes anyway Kitchener added something different.

 Clarke well you know.

Shame about Wade, at least Twelvetrees is still there. Kruis is interesting, been looking good recently. 3 potential new caps.

Yeah Kruis is in...as is Clark.

Kruis instead of Kitchen. Otherwise seems Mail was right

Mullan ahead of Waller, I may be biased but I can't see that.

And no Thomas with 36 included LT.

Also Goode ahead of Foden, Just can't understand that at all.

Beshocked, has Goode been on fire this year, for me the only thing he can do that Foden doesn't do better is place kick.

Injury covers TBA at 8 PM I think slade being tipped to replace Eastmond as injury cover I think, I think.

Well Lancaster will pick his usual pack.

1 Marler
2 Hartley
3 Wilson
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood (Haskell must be pushing close)
7 Robshaw
8 Vunipola (Seems to be his prefered over Morgan)

...but the backs?

9 Care
10 Ford - Cant pick Farrell surely
11 Yarde
12 Eastmond
13 Burrell
14 May / Roko
15 Brown

SL’s uni-player approach in the BR, including using Wood & Lawes out of position, may have been purged. But what if we have injuries (or a drop in form) of Woodshaw. And I question having both Vuni &Morgan in the matchday squad as they provide very similar types. That’s why I thought it would be interesting to have someone like Armitage as a bench option to provide a different type of 7 as well as some sort of injury cover for 8. Could Fraser fulfil this role? Certainly an option of a more 7-like BR-er needs to be looked at sometime (probably after the RWC now).

Continual injury absence of Manu is now becoming a problem as the RWC approaches and we have no settled combination. I’m beginning to think a mix of Barritt and/or Eastmond plus Burrell would provide some solidity and the bench option of changing the gameplan late on if necessary.

Stewie has struggled in the back 3 and I suspect with so few games left will return to the 2 or 3 FB approach.