Ireland v Australia 22 Nov 2014: Dog v Cat: Ali V Foreman: Beauty v Beast, Xavier v Wolfman

First topic message reminder :

Have they ever met?
Sure they have.  And they're meeting each other now every second of every day in the lead up to the weekend's encounter - Schmidt even dreaming tactics whilst asleep at night, as there are not nearly enough hours in an atomic-clock week for him.  A meeting of brainwaves as one tries to look into the other's head and plan victory or defeat.

Schmidt doesn't rate the number 3.  Neither does Cheika.  But Cheika will still want the number back out of a sense of pride  He got no time for Ranking nonsense but he'll take it as his pound of flesh anyway given that the rules of the game forbid real flesh being taken.

Schmidt is the scientist; birdlike, almost timid, edgy and nervous when tension grows.  Cheika is the brick wall that needs no door to make a space for itself in a fight.  He has a nice smile, especially when he's happy, and that's usually when his fingers are around someone's neck and squeezing

Schmidt is considered pedantic, perfecting and getting on for being an infuriating perfectionist.  That can often be a problem as the word has noting to do with achieving perfection and everything to do with simply never being satisfied.  Perfectionism can often cloud the path to an easier fulfilling life.  Schmidt is driven but I don't think he'll ever find peace.

Cheika seems more like a company CEO.  Goals adopted, timeframes given, pie charts done, costs analysed, work done, work done, work redone with shouts and screams to make people listen and goals achieved.  Next project.  First project forgotten, yesterday's news.  Little genuine emotion for the victory or the initial goal that rapidly sinks into his history and falls into his junkbox.  
Schmidt wants to win - yes - but he wants to play chess.  Cheika just wants results.

And of course both coached Leinster.  One began the journey but had a temperament that wasn't conducive to a long partnership with the players.  Schmidt continued the journey and honed it but also had a temperament that didn't seem to want the relationship to last long.
This will be a brief encounter for both men - just the way they like it.  Brief encounter but the makings of a very long day for both sets of fans.

Yeah, thinking about it Bowe deserves an 8. Didn't see much ball but did everything well and got the intercept try.

SecretFly wrote:Guns, I think the stats balance out Zebo's efforts in comparison to Bowe's.  He put in a bloody good day at the office.  And if Bowe deserves 7, so does Zebo.  

I believe you that there are stats to back your arguement. Do you have them to hand?

No question he put in a good shift and his workrate is improving. However, his offload was a bad mistake because he failed to draw Foley in and therefore just passed the ball to him. It was a bad mistake as it lead to a 20 point turnaround.

It is fair enough to dock him marks for that just as its fair to dock Darce and Toner marks for missing tackles.

Zebo got the cross kick - just as tough to time well and you might look a bigger fool if you fumbled it. Plus 10 tackles and no misses (highest of the backs) plus 3 defenders beaten plus 2 turnovers.

I'd have put Zebo on 8 myself. So yeah, they're equal again

Sunday times gave Bowe a 5 mainly because of the offload. I think a 6 or 7 is fair enough. Bowe 7 or 8.

I believe in praising a man for good work regardless of 606 forum fun with DOD and Sin. Zebo, for me, finally looks the part if he keeps that form up - both hard in the tackle, plays the team game, and still willing to chance more individualistic things at times.

SecretFly wrote:I believe in praising a man for good work regardless of 606 forum fun with DOD and Sin.  Zebo, for me, finally looks the part if he keeps that form up - both hard in the tackle, plays the team game, and still willing to chance more individualistic things at times.

Thats ridiculous. You assess anyone on their overall performance. You cant just ignore errors because it suits you.

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I believe in praising a man for good work regardless of 606 forum fun with DOD and Sin.  Zebo, for me, finally looks the part if he keeps that form up - both hard in the tackle, plays the team game, and still willing to chance more individualistic things at times.

Thats ridiculous. You assess anyone on their overall performance. You cant just ignore errors because it suits you.

Dear God. Every player makes errors, Guns. Did Bowe catch every ball in the air he went for? Are those mistakes he often makes that might kill opportune moves?

I'm not absolving Zebo of mistake sins - he made a mistake. I'm saying he did enough in overall stats when balanced out with Bowe to demand the same rating. You don't agree but I'd give Zebo a high rating for that game. I've been hard on him in the past. I'll praise him when I see what I regard as good play. Zebo had a good game in a hard game against probably our toughest opponents this year bar the English.

For effort every player is 10/10.

profitius wrote:For effort every player is 10/10.

No. Zebo remains 9/10 because truly he could make more of an effort............. to pull up his bobby socks.

Sorry but Zee Bowe is way down the list, (and his other brother Harry is just too sugar coated).

Oh Guns you were probably losing sleep over Zebo this week and now the chance to get in there....you go for it boy. The highest tackling back (none missed). Equal with Jamie Houdini (now you see him now you dont) and only just behind Ruddock. One try scored and another illegally stopped by Folau. 3 defenders beaten...blah blah blah. Had a great game. The offload was on and at least tried something. The follow up tackles by a number of players left a lot to be desired though.

Anyhow take a sleeping pill. the nightmares of Zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeebo will stop (but not if I can help it).

First on the team sheet now....

Franno having a right go at Heaslip this week for his poor scrummaging.

he desperation at scrum time can be alleviated by Jamie Heaslip scrummaging properly.

Heaslip doesn't pack down between the blindside wing-forward and the left-hand-side second-row anymore. He packs down between the two second-rows, which every No 8 in world rugby is obliged to do, otherwise their pack are pushed off the ball.

Every time Ireland's scrum got into trouble it was as a result of Heaslip taking his head out of the scrum and subtracting 18 stone in weight and the corresponding amount of pressure.

That means as well as your hooker not being in a position to withstand a heave because he has just adjusted to strike the ball, your No 8 at the base of the vortex isn't scrummaging either. Eight against six - the six-man scrum will buckle or go backwards.

Heaslip will in future have to trap the ball with his left foot and move it to his right foot without taking the power off at scrum time. Disengaging, taking your head out and trying to feed your scrum-half is only going to put you under pressure. If Murray wants the ball he should pick it from the base himself. Solid scrum first - any other thought second.

That Australian scrum isn't one that would make the knees wobble. Since when did James Slipper become a macho scrummager?

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Guns, I think the stats balance out Zebo's efforts in comparison to Bowe's.  He put in a bloody good day at the office.  And if Bowe deserves 7, so does Zebo.  

I believe you that there are stats to back your arguement. Do you have them to hand?

No question he put in a good shift and his workrate is improving. However, his offload was a bad mistake because he failed to draw Foley in and therefore just passed the ball to him. It was a bad mistake as it lead to a 20 point turnaround.

It is fair enough to dock him marks for that just as its fair to dock Darce and Toner marks for missing tackles.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on that one.

Heaslip always pops the head up to have a look at what's going on.... against hightailed sides.  Maybe defending decisions were the primary concerns in training over winning scrums?  Maybe a guy needs to keep an eye on positions of dangerous looking Aussies waiting for fast ball.  Maybe a head up someone's arse isn't the best place to get a good view of the battleground?

Maybe Franno's right and Murray should collect his own balls without Heaslip doing two jobs at once?

No wonder the guy took a break in the Aussie dressing room during the second half.

gleesonisgod wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Guns, I think the stats balance out Zebo's efforts in comparison to Bowe's.  He put in a bloody good day at the office.  And if Bowe deserves 7, so does Zebo.  

I believe you that there are stats to back your arguement. Do you have them to hand?

No question he put in a good shift and his workrate is improving. However, his offload was a bad mistake because he failed to draw Foley in and therefore just passed the ball to him. It was a bad mistake as it lead to a 20 point turnaround.

It is fair enough to dock him marks for that just as its fair to dock Darce and Toner marks for missing tackles.

I'd love to hear your reasoning on that one.

You obviously missed it that Zebo was responsible for the following...
1. All Australias points
2. Ireland having to get a bailout.
3. The weather.
4. The Famine, Emigration and is clearly a direct descendent of Cromwell.
5. Irish Water.

That is all.

Sin é wrote:Franno having a right go at Heaslip this week for his poor scrummaging.

he desperation at scrum time can be alleviated by Jamie Heaslip scrummaging properly.

Heaslip doesn't pack down between the blindside wing-forward and the left-hand-side second-row anymore. He packs down between the two second-rows, which every No 8 in world rugby is obliged to do, otherwise their pack are pushed off the ball.

Every time Ireland's scrum got into trouble it was as a result of Heaslip taking his head out of the scrum and subtracting 18 stone in weight and the corresponding amount of pressure.

That means as well as your hooker not being in a position to withstand a heave because he has just adjusted to strike the ball, your No 8 at the base of the vortex isn't scrummaging either. Eight against six - the six-man scrum will buckle or go backwards.

Heaslip will in future have to trap the ball with his left foot and move it to his right foot without taking the power off at scrum time. Disengaging, taking your head out and trying to feed your scrum-half is only going to put you under pressure. If Murray wants the ball he should pick it from the base himself. Solid scrum first - any other thought second.

That Australian scrum isn't one that would make the knees wobble. Since when did James Slipper become a macho scrummager?

It was noticeable that on almost every Irish scrum that struggled Ross didn't get a proper bind.He either missed the LH's shirt altogether or was binding on his sleeve.A lot of the scrums had a camera close to his side and even as someone who never played in a shirt number lower than 12 I could predict which scrums we were going to struggle in.

Ross really needs to get up to speed before he is any good and I find that troubling as next year we only have 4 warmups and then 2 easy games in the WC before the real tests start,Ross hasn't really got going this season and last year it was Christmas before he looked like he was ready for the top level action.We could struggle if he doesn't start next season a lot better.

Ain't Ross a little long in the tooth to be in the category of a guy who needs to: "get up to speed before he is any good"?

I think those days of hoping he might get better are behind him. I think he's in the 'hanging in there' phase of his career now. And doing a reasonable attempt at it too considering the number of times he's requested to 'hang in there' by coaches who have few alternatives they fully trust yet.

Gas, Zebo just followed me on Twitter. Legend.

I can see a lad's love affair (platonic that is) blooming here. Took a long time but............ Zebo will be the first name on Gun's teamsheet from here on in

At least that's one continuing theme solved here.