Wales vs the Boks

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Wales v South Africa
29 November 2014
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

****
Another week of misery for us Welshmen. What a shame, so much to be proud of vs the ABs but the scoreline does not reflect that.

These boys have shown they can push SA and it would be good to take something from this Autumn Series though I doubt many of expect we will.

Will be missing some good players who have to return to their clubs. So will SA.

We also have a good number of worrying injuries. Not sure if the team announcement will be Tuesday or not...?


The boks fielded a few experimental selections last Saturday against Italy in a weakened team. I imagine they will change a few players around and we will see a side similar to that which beat England.

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

100k is 5 youngsters first contracts.

fa0019 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

100k is 5 youngsters first contracts.

Getting to the QFs of the Euro Cup is worth much more than that.
Qualifying for it in the first place is worth much more than that.

fa0019 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

100k is 5 youngsters first contracts.

Whilst I think it is a little more than 100k, in principle I agree, what is the point on having 100k when the money they spend will go on a NWQ player anyway.

I am sure after Wales have won this test against the Springboks all will be forgiven, eh?

LordDowlais wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

100k is 5 youngsters first contracts.

Whilst I think it is a little more than 100k, in principle I agree, what is the point on having 100k when the money they spend will go on a NWQ player anyway.

Perhaps it would mean in future chaps like Hibbard, James etc don't miss important opportunities such as beating the boks on Saturday. Given the margins are so tight, fielding your top side may make all the difference, especially against one which can't field their own full side due to the same reason.

If it helps in the development of a national team I would say any fixture is worth it.

The full Welsh team would not beat the side you lot are putting out on Saturday anyway, they just do not know how to beat the SH sides.

LordDowlais wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If the WRU makes a profit from this game and it filters down towards domestic rugby I think you should care about it.

Hardly. I'd rather forgo the £100k and concentrate on the competitive domestic fixtures, rather than this needless friendly match.

100k is 5 youngsters first contracts.

Whilst I think it is a little more than 100k, in principle I agree, what is the point on having 100k when the money they spend will go on a NWQ player anyway.

It's not. It's 400k between the Welsh pro teams. (Interestingly, the RFU give the English pro teams £2m for the same out of the window fixture)

fa0019 wrote:

If it helps in the development of a national team I would say any fixture is worth it.

Even if it is shafting the very teams that are supposed to be developing the players in the first place?

How short-termist.

I have never liked these 4 games in a row people just can't afford it but the WRU grab every penny they can get.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

If it helps in the development of a national team I would say any fixture is worth it.

Even if it is shafting the very teams that are supposed to be developing the players in the first place?

How short-termist.

How is it shafting the teams?

Take a chap like Samson Lee.... will he get more development opportunities vs. the boks or vs. a pro12 team?

Are the clubs also playing on Saturday... so they will be without say 4 players each? Surely they have enough players to cater... and perhaps, just perhaps it gives a youngster/up and coming player a chance for game time.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I have never liked these 4 games in a row people just can't afford it but the WRU grab every penny they can get.

The players are absolutely knackered, yet they'll play another game this weekend against SA. They then have 2 days rest and go straight into training for the Euro cup games 5 days later.

In my teams case, they'll play against a fresh Ulster side, who have rested their internationals for 2 weeks.

Rugby is broken where I come from.

fa0019 wrote:

How is it shafting the teams?

Take a chap like Samson Lee.... will he get more development opportunities vs. the boks or vs. a pro12 team?

He's already had enough development this Autumn. Now, he'll be straight into the side to face Ulster twice in a row, then 3 Welsh derbies in a row which means he'll have started 9 massive games in 9 weekends, which will probably do him more harm than good as a 21 year old prop.

Are the clubs also playing on Saturday... so they will be without say 4 players each? Surely they have enough players to cater... and perhaps, just perhaps it gives a youngster/up and coming player a chance for game time.

Yay. Lets give the youngsters an opportunity to play in a crucial 8 pointer which will in all likelihood determine if we qualify for the European cup next season.

We are missing 9 players due to this pathetic friendly (4 front rowers!). The opposition gets 3 players back from test duty!!!

Chunky Norwich wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I have never liked these 4 games in a row people just can't afford it but the WRU grab every penny they can get.

The players are absolutely knackered, yet they'll play another game this weekend against SA. They then have 2 days rest and go straight into training for the Euro cup games 5 days later.

In my teams case, they'll play against a fresh Ulster side, who have rested their internationals for 2 weeks.

Rugby is broken where I come from.

Usually when cash becomes tight its the least important things which get cut, at least from an initial outlook.

Say you have AW Jones' contract or 5 junior players. Who do you cut? Forget that the academy may have a diamond in the rough for a minute.

Given the regions need to stay competitive, they need players like Jones. I could easily see the cuts going to the academy kids etc. So if you take out the money from the game, its not that the regions will have less money to spend on top tier players, they will do all they can to keep them... its the kids, the ones which need the contracts etc who will be cut... at least IMO.

Biltong wrote:I am sure after Wales have won this test against the Springboks all will be forgiven, eh?

You sure don't know us welsh, if we win it will be why did we play non-welsh based players against NZ/AUS these 'true' welsh men are better

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am sure after Wales have won this test against the Springboks all will be forgiven, eh?

You sure don't know us welsh, if we win it will be why did we play non-welsh based players against NZ/AUS these 'true' welsh men are better

Retrospective in hindsight...

From PR.com

Bismarck du Plessis and Tendai Mtawarira both start in the front row, while the remaining changes come in the three-quarters.
Willie le Roux is back in the side at full-back, while Lwazi Mvovo and Cornall Hendricks also come in for a new back three.
Some of those changes are forced, with the Springboks denied their French-based players for this Test outside the international window.
That means that Bryan Habana and Johan Goosen are both unavailable, with Mvovo and le Roux replacing them.
There is one new face on the bench with Damian de Allende named as cover in the three-quarters.
He is joined on the bench by Trevor Nyakane and Adriaan Strauss, who both drop down after starting against Italy last week.
Nizaam Carr will continue as back row cover after his impressive performance off the bench against the Azzurri.
"This tour has been a good test of our depth and we're looking forward to see what the team can do on Saturday," said Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer.
"We will face a fired-up Welsh side this weekend. They played very well against New Zealand and it will be a tough end to our season, but we want to finish on a high and the focus this week has been on ensuring we keep on building on what we've done thus far this year.
"All the players coming into the team have been part of our squad for most of the season. They know our plans and structures and now it's about execution on Saturday."

South Africa:
15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornall Hendricks, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Oupa Mohoje, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira

Replacements: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Julian Redelinghuys, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Nizaam Carr, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 Damian de Allende

It is confirmed that George north is injured and will not take part this weekend

maestegmafia wrote:It is confirmed that George north is injured and will not take part this weekend

That means Liam Williams on the wing then, although I wish Gatland would put Halfpenny on his wing and Liam Williams at fullback.

Any news on Rhys Webb ?

I think Webb and halfpenny get the confirmation tomorrow.

Poor Nicky Smith is out for four months with a torn bicep.

Meyer wrote:"This tour has been a good test of our depth and we're looking forward to see what the team can do on Saturday," said Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer.

I would love to know how he tested our depth.

Nizaam Carr gets 15 minutes against Italy, how the hell is that testing depth?

Same with Julian Redelinghuys, what about Jaco Kriel, Warren Whiteley, Damien de Allende, Seobela Senatla and others?

ss. you said earlier that we need bench payers who can come on and change the game, in normal rugby thinking yes, but.....er  the management call the game plan and as yet we have never changed the plan .  gats was miffed that we didn't kick enough, I say well done biggar for that, at least we got in touching distance.     not good enough I know , but kicking to NZ more would have been a disaster.  the supporters are sick of kick it and its run back at you.
ok we had a number 10 with the highest tackle count,13, which pretty well sums up our red line defence tactic . but don't for one minute think any other players would be allowed to play differently.

  I have said many times about rp s  comments, which he apparently had a b8ll8cking for later which caused his meltdown , he was interviewed after one game when he threw the match through some kicking error, he was asked why on earth he had done it , think it was last minutes again, and he actually said he was told to kick if he was in that area of play, it was in ' the plan '  even though at the timeit was the wrong tactic.!!!!! un ffing believable.

Another conversation stopper on scrum v which I have mentioned before, think it was last year, tom shanklin was asked about the lack of creativity in 'the plan' and he actually said  " we don't need creativity " then he said get the ball to Jamie etc
I was amazed at the time that more wasn't made of that comment in the media.
Of course our players can play a different game, but they have to play "the plan" clever of biggar to stick to the kicking game plan, but not do enough of it, still keeps his place, didn't go against "orders"

gavstar wrote:ss. you said earlier that we need bench payers who can come on and change the game, in normal rugby thinking yes, but.....er  the management call the game plan and as yet we have never changed the plan .  gats was miffed that we didn't kick enough, I say well done biggar for that, at least we got in touching distance.     not good enough I know , but kicking to NZ more would have been a disaster.  the supporters are sick of kick it and its run back at you.
ok we had a number 10 with the highest tackle count,13, which pretty well sums up our red line defence tactic . but don't for one minute think any other players would be allowed to play differently.

  I have said many times about rp s  comments, which he apparently had a b8ll8cking for later which caused his meltdown , he was interviewed after one game when he threw the match through some kicking error, he was asked why on earth he had done it , think it was last minutes again, and he actually said he was told to kick if he was in that area of play, it was in ' the plan '  even though at the timeit was the wrong tactic.!!!!! un ffing believable.

Another conversation stopper on scrum v which I have mentioned before, think it was last year, tom shanklin was asked about the lack of creativity in 'the plan' and he actually said  " we don't need creativity " then he said get the ball to Jamie etc
I was amazed at the time that more wasn't made of that comment in the media.
Of course our players can play a different game, but they have to play "the plan" clever of biggar to stick to the kicking game plan, but not do enough of it, still keeps his place, didn't go against "orders"

Gavstar, I agree with most if not all you say, yet what happened to Biggar and Richie Rees the last time they didn't adhere to the match plan.

Gav, I agree with what you say.  In Gats dreams he has a back line of 
Phillips, 
Phillips Clone that can kick
North
Roberts
Roberts Clone
North Clone
1/2p (or Roberts Clone than can kick)

With yet more clones on the bench.

However, as results have shown time and time again, we only have one game plan.  Sadly if we were willing to try and adjust the plan more often I think we may actually have won a few by now.

LordDowlais wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It is confirmed that George north is injured and will not take part this weekend

That means Liam Williams on the wing then, although I wish Gatland would put Halfpenny on his wing and Liam Williams at fullback.

Any news on Rhys Webb ?

I would have played Williams regardless of Norths injury and like most would pick him at XV, that said why don't these guys just use their heads and swap and change about anyway.  Gym monkeys no rugby brains.

Roberts Clone at the airport trying desperately to get a flight to Mongolia but with no passport. He knows instinctively how many pain killers he'll need to calm the headaches brought on by Gatactics.

I know I have said that we now have gym monkeys rather than rugby players with brains but we know these guys can play rugby.

It was what only 8 months ago that we stuck 50 points on Scotland (albeit 14 men) and it was only last year that 4 from Saturdays backline formed part of the Lions backline that scored some cracking tries in the last test.

Now I know you have to take opposition into account but least they played rugby with their heads rather than just bosh bosh bosh and I know that you have to have a game plan and follow the coaches instructions BUT they also need to be given their head and if they think something is on the fecking have a crack and not 'aimlessly' folow the plan.

LordDowlais wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It is confirmed that George north is injured and will not take part this weekend

That means Liam Williams on the wing then, although I wish Gatland would put Halfpenny on his wing and Liam Williams at fullback.

Any news on Rhys Webb ?

Definite blessing in disguise after his performance against Fiji and the ABs. He was alright though a little quiet against Australia. He just isn't replicating his Northampton form for Wales and that carries on from the summer tour to SA which makes it an issue.

I can see this game going the same way. We'll perhaps get a good lead and when key players go off (Webb, Biggar, Halfpenny) we'll lose the game.

At least I guess it will save Northampton paying another fine again or getting on wrong side of their governing body.

I wonder if Anscombe can play wing...

Bedford, do you think Amos could be on the bench this weekend? Who will make up our subs is a good question actually... The selection of the original squad makes for quite restrictive selection right now.

The Saint wrote:

Bedford, do you think Amos could be on the bench this weekend? Who will make up our subs is a good question actually... The selection of the original squad makes for quite restrictive selection right now.

No, Scott Williams will be.

16. Emyr Phillips
17. Rob Evans
18. Rhodri Jones
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Scott Williams

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Gav, I agree with what you say.  In Gats dreams he has a back line of 
Phillips, 
Phillips Clone that can kick
North
Roberts
Roberts Clone
North Clone
1/2p (or Roberts Clone than can kick)

With yet more clones on the bench.

Gatlandball in heaven!

wales606 wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Bedford, do you think Amos could be on the bench this weekend? Who will make up our subs is a good question actually... The selection of the original squad makes for quite restrictive selection right now.

No, Scott Williams will be.

16. Emyr Phillips
17. Rob Evans
18. Rhodri Jones
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Scott Williams

Those half-backs though....


Scott Williams was always a starter for me. Had more game time than JD2 and was in much better form. Hopefully we'll see Rhodri Williams on the bench, and perhaps Priestland not at all. Halfpenny to cover outside half...

The Saint wrote:I wonder if Anscombe can play wing...

Bedford, do you think Amos could be on the bench this weekend? Who will make up our subs is a good question actually... The selection of the original squad makes for quite restrictive selection right now.

Saint,

Unfortunately I can't calm your fears as I think it will be Phillips and Priestland though hasn't he used Sc Williams as 10 cover before? I would like to see Phillips dropped but it won't happen and I hope for the love of god he doesn't think Phillips and Priestland are capable of closing the game out for us IF we are in the lead.

Henson had good game again at the weekend. set up two tries, one with a super slip through kick perfect weight and direction right on the runners path,sublime. another simple silky off load, still best at it, straight run in again . and missed just one kick from 5. I'd have him in the set up before hook or priestland, no question.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:We have no clue what to do with the ball when we have it other than snipe at rucks or kick it away.

BedfordWelsh wrote:As usual I think we will push them hard and be in it with about 10-15 mins to go without having dome much then they will get one or two chances and score where as we won't have created many chances at all.

Agreed and agreed. We're a big, strong side... and that's it. There's no spark, no incision. And on Saturday we're playing a bigger, stronger side who put width on the ball like they know what they're doing. Thank chuff we beat Fiji.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:We have no clue what to do with the ball when we have it other than snipe at rucks or kick it away.

As usual I think we will push them hard and be in it with about 10-15 mins to go without having dome much then they will get one or two chances and score where as we won't have created many chances at all.

Agreed and agreed. We're a big, strong side... and that's it. There's no spark, no incision. And on Saturday we're playing a bigger, stronger side who put width on the ball like they know what they're doing. Thank chuff we beat Fiji.[/quote]

LP,

Its like I said though 8 months ago we stuck 50 points on Scotland by playing rugby so these guys can do it but just don't seem to at the moment.

Beating a struggling Scotland side at home who had 14 players for the majority of the match is not really something we can take forward. England put a similar score on Italy away when they had a full team.

The guys are more than capable of playing running rugby, but I don't know why they don't. We scored 4 tries against Australia a few weeks ago, when was the last time we scored 4 vs the big 3?

IM,

I know but to a degree the opposition is irrelevant as at least we wear creating those chances to take at the moment we are creating very little yet its the same group of players from 8 months ago so what's changed.

The Saint wrote:

wales606 wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Bedford, do you think Amos could be on the bench this weekend? Who will make up our subs is a good question actually... The selection of the original squad makes for quite restrictive selection right now.

No, Scott Williams will be.

16. Emyr Phillips
17. Rob Evans
18. Rhodri Jones
19. Luke Charteris
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Mike Phillips
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Scott Williams

Those half-backs though....


Scott Williams was always a starter for me. Had more game time than JD2 and was in much better form. Hopefully we'll see Rhodri Williams on the bench, and perhaps Priestland not at all. Halfpenny to cover outside half...

According to the Western Mail, Cory Allen will be on the bench ahead of Scott Williams and Rhodri Jones and Jarvis will be the prop replacements

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Unattached), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, Capt), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), James King (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).

The XV might be as good as we can select, but imo not as strong as last weekend. The bench looks very second rate and light weight and I can't see it having a positive impact.

Hopefully Baldwin can throw a straight lineout this time, otherwise we cannot kick to touch.

Would like to have seen Williams at 15, mainly because I think hes a better fullback than Halfpenny and Halfpenny is a better winger than Williams. But I guess it doesn't make a huge difference.

Bench looks a bit weak, not many players on there who are going to have an impact coming on, in fact, some are going to make things a lot worse.

Who is the loosehead cover on the bench?

Is James King actually covering 4,5,6 and 7?

Awful bench. Let's just get this game over with.

For me, I do not think the bench is as bad as what people are making out, Phillips and Preistland aside, the like's of Emyr Phillips, Rhodri Jones, Scott Williams will be chomping at the bit to get on and prove themselves.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Who is the loosehead cover on the bench?

Is James King actually covering 4,5,6 and 7?

Awful bench. Let's just get this game over with.

Rhodri Jones is loose head cover (used to be a very promising loosehead, rubbish tight head) not as good as Rob Evans though.

Charteris is covering 4 & 5.

No a bad bench, plenty of players with something to prove.

The only question I have is, Why pick King over Tipuric ?

Seagultaf wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Who is the loosehead cover on the bench?

Is James King actually covering 4,5,6 and 7?

Awful bench. Let's just get this game over with.

Rhodri Jones is loose head cover (used to be a very promising loosehead, rubbish tight head) not as good as Rob Evans though.

Charteris is covering 4 & 5.

No a bad bench, plenty of players with something to prove.

So why has he picked a player who has not played loosehead in 2 years, to cover loosehead?

LordDowlais wrote:The only question I have is, Why pick King over Tipuric ?

Probably want a more physical players on the bench against SA