Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread VI - Banter Boogaloo

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Prehistorical Patter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues

A. Edinburgh


1. League Results

Fri 5 Sep: Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 12 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 13 - 14 Connacht Rugby

Sun 21 Sep: Ospreys 62 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 26 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 20 Scarlets

Fri 3 Oct: Ulster Rugby 30 - 0 Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 11 Oct: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 10 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 31 Oct: Leinster Rugby 33 - 8 Edinburgh Rugby

Sun 23 Nov: Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 13 Cardiff Blues

Sat 29 Nov: Zebre 18 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 19 Dec: Edinburgh Rugby 48 - 0 Benetton Treviso

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby - 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Connacht Rugby 13 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby

2. European Results

17/10/14: Bordeaux-Begles 13 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

24/10/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 17 Lyon

7/12/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 13 London Welsh

14/12/14: London Welsh 6 - 24 Edinburgh Rugby

17/01/2015: Lyon 21 - 19 Edinburgh Rugby

23/01/2015: Edinburgh Rugby 38 - 20 Bordeaux-Begles

B. Glasgow


1. League Results

Sat 6 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 20 Leinster Rugby

Sun 14 Sep: Cardiff Blues 12 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Sep: Newport Gwent Dragons 13 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 26 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht Rugby

Sun 5 Oct: Benetton Treviso 23 - 40 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 11 Oct: Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 31 Oct: Glasgow Warriors 17 - 9 Benetton Treviso

Fri 21 Nov: Scarlets 19 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Sun 30 Nov: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 15 Newport Gwent Dragons

Sat 20 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 7 Scarlets

2. European Results

18/10/14: Glasgow Warriors 37 - 10 Bath Rugby

25/10/14: Montpellier 13 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

7/12/14: Toulouse 19 - 11 Glasgow Warriors

13/12/14: Glasgow Warriors 9 - 12 Toulouse

18/01/2015: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 10 Montpellier

25/01/2015: Bath Rugby 20 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

[RDW]

Delighted that Hoyland is fit and playing. Hoyland to right wing Mr Solomons and Fife to 13. Also good to see Dean getting a game, and Bezzy back in the reckoning.

I had thought Alex Toolis was out on loan, but maybe we called him back with Gilchrist and Bresler out.

Comments from Solomons on that matter:

“Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has had a pretty decent season and so has Hamish Watson until his injury,” says Solomons.

“There’s also Rory Sutherland, while Magnus Bradbury and Jamie Ritchie have had game time. It’s very positive.

“We’ve had a couple of schoolboys train with us this week and looking further ahead I think Chris Dean will come through in 2015, as will Damien Hoyland.

“Chris came out of school and went straight into the (Scotland) sevens team. Now he has had a lot of club rugby but Accies have not had the easiest of seasons and that can make it difficult for a back, but he’s doing well.

“Damien Hoyland’s time with the sevens team has done him a power of good. Playing on a big stage like that makes a helluva difference to a youngster.

“In terms of our vision of building a sustainable club through our indigenous talent, we are starting to see those young boys come through.”

Would be great to see Dean and Hoyland being integrated into the squad after the New Year/

[funnyExiledScot]

It all sounds very constructive and positive....and then you go and see Edinburgh actually play!!

[IanBru]

Oh Fudgecicles. Matawalu to Bath at the end of the season.

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/12/22/matawalu-join-bath-rugby-next-season

[funnyExiledScot]

That's a huge blow to Glasgow. He'll be impossible to replace.

It leaves Glasgow sorely needing a scrum half. The obvious solution is to take Kennedy from Edinburgh, much as I hate to admit it. With Hart and Hildalgo-Clyne, with Glashan on the way up, he just isn't getting enough game time for this stage of his career.

[BigGee]

Tell you who I saw that looked half decent and probably won't cost a fortune was Scott Steele at LI. Watched the game on sunday and he played pretty well. They got gubbed in the end but when he was playing in th first half they were very competitive. Unfurtunatley they fell to bits in the last 20 mins.

Kennedy seems to be slipping down the pecking order at a rate of knots at the moment. He did have his chances earlier in the season and did not do a lot with them to be fair. I am not sure Glasgow will take him now, he does not seem to have pushed on from 2 years ago. No longer the promising younster now.

[funnyExiledScot]

A sad day. Work have finally figured out how to block 606v2 access, so from now on I'll have to use my mobile. Miserable!

[VinceWLB]

Big big blow imo, after thinking about he is a really unique player and basically irreplaceable but yeah he probably asked for a pay rise which Glasgow didn't agree with and remember next season is a rwc one so was likely to miss a large part of the season.

Delighted to see Cusack starting tonight even though it won't be on tv unfortunately.

I think Glasgow should try to sign either Ben Toolis or Atkins as there is as it is a surplus of quality 2nd row at Edinburgh.

[tigertattie]

See, BBC Alba should show the A game tonight! It's not as if the channel is stuffed full of quality programming!

The A game will probably be far more competitive than then Pro 12 game!

[alive555]

That's a huge blow to Glasgow. He'll be impossible to replace.

It leaves Glasgow sorely needing a scrum half. The obvious solution is to take Kennedy from Edinburgh, much as I hate to admit it. With Hart and Hildalgo-Clyne, with Glashan on the way up, he just isn't getting enough game time for this stage of his career.

that will cost them a few games not just points. astounded they didnt throw serious money at him. bad bad result !

next nakarawa will join him as they are probably best buddies

what r they thinking about ?

[TJ]

While its a blow for glasgow I doubt its just about money. Glasgow was his first professional contract was it not? He will be wanting to ply his trade in different leagues. Good luck to him is what I say

[George Carlin]

That's a huge blow to Glasgow. He'll be impossible to replace.

It leaves Glasgow sorely needing a scrum half. The obvious solution is to take Kennedy from Edinburgh, much as I hate to admit it. With Hart and Hildalgo-Clyne, with Glashan on the way up, he just isn't getting enough game time for this stage of his career.

that will cost them a few games not just points. astounded they didnt throw serious money at him. bad bad result !

next nakarawa will join him as they are probably best buddies

what r they thinking about ?

The implication of Niko's comments to the BBC were that it was a combined Glasgow and SRU offer. And it still wasn't enough.

The real shame is that he's the kind of player a lot of young fans love to see and they won't understand why he's leaving. I am fairly distraught that he's going. The biggest statistic on the Beeb article is that he's single handedly responsible for scoring 110 points for Glasgow. Genuinely irreplaceable.

[funnyExiledScot]

The other issue is of course Henry Pyrgos. Much improved, and has become more consistent, but when he's off his game is service is rank awful, and I'm yet to see anything of Murray McConnell to suggest he's any good.

I do think Sean Kennedy would be a good choice. Glasgow would suit him far more than Edinburgh, where Solomons has coached all his scrum halves to simply box kick. Grayson Hart is probably in all sorts of trouble for his off the cuff break against Treviso leading to his try. Not sticking to the system at all.

[alive555]

That's a huge blow to Glasgow. He'll be impossible to replace.

It leaves Glasgow sorely needing a scrum half. The obvious solution is to take Kennedy from Edinburgh, much as I hate to admit it. With Hart and Hildalgo-Clyne, with Glashan on the way up, he just isn't getting enough game time for this stage of his career.

that will cost them a few games not just points. astounded they didnt throw serious money at him. bad bad result !

next nakarawa will join him as they are probably best buddies

what r they thinking about ?

The implication of Niko's comments to the BBC were that it was a combined Glasgow and SRU offer. And it still wasn't enough.

The real shame is that he's the kind of player a lot of young fans love to see and they won't understand why he's leaving. I am fairly distraught that he's going. The biggest statistic on the Beeb article is that he's single handedly responsible for scoring 110 points for Glasgow. Genuinely irreplaceable.

plus he probably puts 500 bums on seats. id be worried naka will follow shortly

[VinceWLB]

At 25 he was still a work in progress in my opinion and Glasgow in some way failed to get the best out of him.

That said he asked for big bucks and it was probably deemed to high a risk to re-sign him as much as it is a risk to start him!

The good news is it probably free funds for a marquee signing (hopefully an openside).

[jimbopip]

If the Coo and Big Al are playing for the A team tonight does this make it more or less likely they'll play on Saturday?

[Imperialbigdave]

Part of his decision may have been influenced by his role as an impact player off the bench of late. I think hes best used as an impact player, but no-one wants to settle for just that.

[jimbopip]

I think a simple threat to leave them in Glasgow rather than drive them home if they lose would suffice, no need for a video.

Slightly "out of the blue" choice of movies there Jimbo.....  

Fes, I simply picked one movie about a sensitive soul who wanted to wear tights and get in touch with his more feminine side through the medium of dance and another which Princess Daughter watches with her girie buddies when they feel like drinking rose and having a good cry.
I feel these must be the kind of movies McVisser watches before tackle practice.

[justified sinner]

These will be movies dissimilar to the Warriors, or Assault on Precinct 13 prior to going for a kebab then?

[Argybargy]

I think a simple threat to leave them in Glasgow rather than drive them home if they lose would suffice, no need for a video.

Slightly "out of the blue" choice of movies there Jimbo.....  

Fes, I simply picked one movie about a sensitive soul who wanted to wear tights and get in touch with his more feminine side through the medium of dance and another which Princess Daughter watches with her girie buddies when they feel like drinking rose and having a good cry.
I feel these must be the kind of movies McVisser watches before tackle practice

He'll go blind...

[VinceWLB]

If the Coo and Big Al are playing for the A team tonight does this make it more or less likely they'll play on Saturday?

Not sure if Coo will feature or not but he is apparently totally obliterating the poor Edinburgh loosehead!

[funnyExiledScot]

At 25 he was still a work in progress in my opinion and Glasgow in some way failed to get the best out of him.

That said he asked for big bucks and it was probably deemed to high a risk to re-sign him as much as it is a risk to start him!

The good news is it probably free funds for a marquee signing (hopefully an openside).

Sounds like Will Bordill played well for Glasgow A last night.

[RDW]

In other news the Treviso prop has been banned for 6 weeks - luckily no Edinburgh players were cited

Set up a seperate thread here if anyone wants to give their opinion

https://www.606v2.com/t56979-treviso-prop-banned-for-6-weeks#2874428

[George Carlin]

Apparently a fan wearing his Edinburgh shirt was found deceased in a pub doorway. On finding him, quick thinking friends took off the Edinburgh shirt and replaced it with a Nazi soldier's uniform before the ambulance and police arrived.

No sense in his parents having to deal with abject humiliation as well as grief.

()

[A Simply Mesmeric Try]

Oh George...

Gutted about Niko. He's apparently been having offers from other teams since he signed his extension last year.

If there's a NSQ SH coming to Glasgow, I have a punt on Tomas Cubelli - the Argentine who scored a late brace at Murrayfield last month. Very much a live-wire!
He's still plying his trade in Argentina so I imagine there'll be a language gap not to mention teaching him the ways of the force.

I would rather have a native English speaker so as to not get lost in translation. An aging All black maybe? McKibbon is possibly too old, although i'd take him for a season as back up.

[tigertattie]

Do you think Ritchie Gray could make a return to the great unwashed?

Would it be a bit like coming home with your tail between you legs? Or would it be more coming back with the skills he has learned elsewhere to strengthen Glasgow?

I'd also like to see Ally Hogg come back to Edinburgh. I'd play him at 6 over Coman or 8 over Denton any day of the week! He has more leadership skills in his left little toe than Coman has in his whole body!

[Weegie Wizard]

Now that Niko is leaving I don't think we should be getting anyone in to replace him. We have 2 young scrum halves in Price and McConnell who are, I think, 21 and 22yrs old and have both played in less than a handful of games. I think we should be waiting at least a full season to see if either or both of them can make the step up alongside Henners.

If we do decide we need someone else, maybe Kennedy on a 3 month loan for the start of the season to give some competition and give him some game time?

[funnyExiledScot]

Regarding Richie Gray, I think with Swinson, J Gray and Naka Glasgow have three top frontline locks, and in Kellock and Ryder they have experience behind the scenes. I'd rather Glasgow use the slot, if there is one, to get a young up and coming lock some game time.

You've got Davidson and Cummings from the EDP, and also Rob McAlpine at Ayr.

[RDW]

If Glasgow don't want to spend on a new scrummy I'd fully support sending Kennedy to Glasgow - that would mean 4 decent Scottish scrum halfs getting regularly gametime, with young Scottish 9s providing cover.

Difficulties obviously come if one becomes long term injured, but I just don't see any point keeping Kennedy at Edinburgh if he's not playing.

[funnyExiledScot]

Totally agree, it would make sense for all involved and Kennedy would thrive behind a pack that can actually front up (as he did last time at Glasgow).

Pyrgos starting with Kennedy for impact would work well, and as you say would mean that in addition to Cusiter and Laidlaw starting regularly down south, we have four senior SQ scrum halves in the Pro12 with Price, McConnell and Glashan providing back-up. That's how it should be, unless Glasgow can unearth another gem like Nico who will really add something.

[tigertattie]

I don't fully understand the rules around player transfers!

I know there aren't transfer windows like wendyball, but can players be locked out of comps they have played in???

Basically, could Kennedy go to Glasgow and if Edinburgh are then hit with a no9 injury, can he trek back again?

[funnyExiledScot]

Haven't got a clue Tattie. Not sure on what basis Glasgow took Cross and Kennedy previously.

[GLove39]

Well it's not rugby related, but then half the stuff we talk about on here never is!
Anyways, a very Merry Christmas to you all

https://youtu.be/6NXcezd_VIo

[mckay1402]

Could Glasgow not get Colin Gregor back? I always thought he was a cracking sh.

[George Carlin]

Happy Christmas to all of you fine fellows.
See you on the other side.

[IanBru]

Merry Christmas you bunch of bloody wonderful folk!

[jimbopip]

May I echo the Brumeister's sentiment. Keep up the good work in 2015.

p.s. love the animation Mr GLove.
Where they Glovepuppets?

[justified sinner]

Merry Christmas all, and here's to some good games over the festive period.

[funnyExiledScot]

Merry Christmas all. Damn shame there's no live rugby on Christmas Day!!

[BigGee]

Well that's xmas day out of the way, we can start to think and talk about rugby again.

Tonnie saying that they will be looking far and wide for a replacement for Nikko. I think they may well go for a more experienced option here. Price and McConnell don't look ready to step up just yet, if at all and Kennedy seems to have gone a little bit backwards over the past year. Glasgow will struggle with just one top rated SH, who may be getting called up to Scotland as well. It is hard to see Cus going on playing at international level past this world cup. so Henry will be in demand. We do need some more cover here.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well Peri Weepu will no doubt be free once London Welsh are inevitably relegated. He's got pedigree albeit his waistline is a bit on the Atiga side of the line.

[BigGee]

Well Peri Weepu will no doubt be free once London Welsh are inevitably relegated. He's got pedigree albeit his waistline is a bit on the Atiga side of the line.

Hopefully the pension plan will be complete by the end of this season and he can slip quietly into retirement.

[TJ]

Well Peri Weepu will no doubt be free once London Welsh are inevitably relegated. He's got pedigree albeit his waistline is a bit on the Atiga side of the line.

He did look like he had been on the Jacobson diet

[EWT Spoons]

Right, it’s the end of the year (near enough), do we stick with Solomans or do we look to replace him?

Over the last couple of weeks we do seem to have improved, we got a good result against Treviso, but to be fair they were terrible, a half decent side would have racked up a far higher score against them, and we managed to get a couple of respectable (not good mind you) results against London Welsh.

Is this enough to suggest that the tide is turning in his favour?  Or have we just papered over the cracks?

We’re still seeing the same selection issues, with Strauss being preferred at 12 (or even playing) ahead of Scott, who granted didn’t have the greatest game against Glasgow, but is still surely a better 12 than Strauss.

We offer next to nothing in attack and our defence, whilst improving, is still pretty shaky if the opposition run any form of angled run against us.

Do we give Alan “Mr Excuses” Solomans till the end of the season and hope that the like of Scott, Visser etc hang around given their contracts are expiring (I believe), or do we make the change now and get someone else in who can hopefully* get the best out of the players we have.

Personally I think we should replace him, I don’t think we have seen much, if any improvement, considering the number of players he’s brought in and the length of time he’s had with the squad, but I may be in the minority on this one.

* I realise that making a change will not guarantee a change in fortune and constantly chopping and changing our coach isn’t a long term strategy, I just think we need to get someone in who can build us into a team.  I’ve banged this drum a number of times, but Lineen for me is the coach to get us back on the right track.  He got Glasgow on the right path and in theory should be available.

[jimbopip]

Mr Spoons, before Saturday I would have agreed with you re. bringing in St Sean of Lineen. However, the comments from the Luvvites sitting around me were very reminiscent of our early days at Firhill. "At least we can defend, compete and we're not so easy to beat now." Would be a fair summation.
This raises two issues; obdurate, difficult to beat is the first step to becoming a decent side, and can Soloman kick on from there or is that when a new coach is required?
Not so long ago the MFL were easybeats and that seems to be changing, which is good. Is Strauss your Graham Morrison? If so bear in mind that you won't ever really go beyond his limitations (he seems able to defend but doesn't offer much going forward). Will Soloman, after a period of retrenchment, be able to do a Toonie and take the club to a different level? I'd be tempted to give him time to finish making you a hard(er) to beat side and then decide.

[funnyExiledScot]

Jimbopip - that is exactly the right question to ask. Solomons has made significant improvements in certain areas. Our defence is much more robust (although note that we've still taken some heavy beatings this season away from home), the lineout works and the scrum is pretty functional. The players seem to be getting along better, morale looks improved and whilst he hasn't brought through many young players, I've been pleased with Sutherland, Toolis and Hidalgo-Clyne. But the question is what next? The backs are worse than ever before with ball in hand, there's absolutely no spark in the team and players who have previously looked like international class players, Scott, Visser and Tonks, look like shadows of their former selves, basically because they are reduced to chasing up and unders all game long.

We should give Solomons until the end of the season, and line up Lineen to take over in the summer.

[EWT Spoons]

See I’m not sure I would agree with that summation of where we are now.

I don’t think we’re harder to beat now.  We’re pretty much exactly where we were this time last year in terms of results, we’ve lost over half our games.  Also as has been called out, we have nothing in the way of attack, so once  a team breaches our defence we’ve got little to come back with.  The old saying “attack is the best form of defence” really doesn’t work for us as our opponents don’t have to worry about us in the slightest.  Just stick someone who is semi decent at taking a high ball at FB and our attacking plan is negated.

I wouldn’t say Strauss was our Graham Morrison.  Morrison offered little in the way of attack, but he did organise the defence well and you could see that, but Strauss doesn’t really seem to do that all that well either.  

I think some games our defence has done well, but it’s very inconsistent.  Some games we look like we understand the plan and the defensive tactics and others we look like a bunch of lads who just met in the changing room before running onto the pitch.

Also as RDW pointed out on the match thread for the 1872 game, we were turned over 17 times, any team turned over 17 times is not hard to beat.

I’ve not seen every game this season for us, so can only go on what I’ve seen, and it’s entirely possible I’ve missed some of our better performances, but based on what I’ve seen it’s not been much if any of an improvement.

[funnyExiledScot]

I guess where I see the biggest improvement is in our physicality and line speed. Under Bradley the opposition were tearing huge chunks of territory with simple charge up the middle tactics, and when the went wide we were getting shredded. At least under the new regime we are dealing with basic attacking drills, and it was only when Weir starting to kick and chip over the top we fell apart. So I do think we have improved the basics in defence.

As you say, it's the attack that is the biggest concern, because not only do we not threaten with ball in hand, we also don't secure continuity of possession. What was most annoying was that when we did make yards around the fringes, the support was terrible. The number of times our ball carriers were getting isolated was ludicrous. The other brain dead aspect of our game was defending the maul (although Clancy's incompetence in this area was frightening). Whereas Glasgow use the top two inches and either sacked it or stood off (with a couple of obvious offsides thrown in for good measure), Edinburgh seemed to neither stand-off or shove, opting to allow Glasgow to take 10-20 metres before sacking it for an inevitable penalty.

I don't think I'm in quite as bleak as state of mind as you (as a Rangers and Everton fan I have other problems to worry about!), but I do think we should be lining up Lineen now to take over in the summer (and let him deal with the signings this year so he's picking his own players).

[EWT Spoons]

I see what you are saying, I’m just concerned that it's only basic attacking drills that we are able to cope with, chuck in anything more elaborate than running straight into someone and we appear to struggle.  I mean if our defence was immense then not having much of an attack might not be as much of an issue.  Sadly though we have a limited defence and no attack.  If we can’t keep the opposition out and can’t score then we’re cattle trucked.

Your second paragraph is another reason why I think Solomans should go.  The players don’t appear (can only guess this is tactical) to play what’s in front of them, if any player applied a modicum of common sense they would be supporting the ball carrier, but I would imagine they are being coached to within an inch of their lives and not allowed to deviate from that plan.

Not far off it mate to be honest (Livingston and also Everton fan), I would just be concerned that in the summer it might be too late for a number of our players.  From the point of view of the league, we’re not going to finish in the top 6, so Europe is pretty much irrelevant at this stage and we can’t be relegated so from a league position we’re not going to get worse.  But we (apparently) have a number of players who are out of contract in the summer, namely Scott and Visser (there are probably more).  I know I’m covering old ground here, but if I was either of them, I would be seriously considering if I wanted to hang around under Solomans for another few years (no guarantee he’ll be gone in the summer) and they are probably two of our better players.  I realise if we bring Lineen (or someone else) in now things may not change and they could leave anyway, but I would at least like to make a fist of trying to get better before the like of them leave.

However, I suspect this is going to be largely irrelevant as I don’t see him being let go now.

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd be surprised if Matt Scott stayed. He hasn't been great for us due to injury, but he's the best 12 option Scotland has had since John Leslie and his only role at Edinburgh is playing out of position and chasing down aimless kicks. I wouldn't blame him for moving. Similarly Visser, whose try scoring has completely dried up under Solomons because he doesn't get the ball anymore. Looks like his international ambitions are fading as well due the the form of Seymour. Again, can't see him staying.

I suspect Burleigh (12) and Farndale (11) are the likely replacements, although neither are as good in my view.

[RDW]

As good as Scott is, who would sign him? 12 is a very competitive position in the AP, and I'd be disappointed if he went to a team not in the ECC.

Same would apply to the French league.

I think he'll stay - he's an Edinburgh boy though and through, and I'd be surprised if he was offered a lot more money elsewhere.

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