Haye ready for comeback!

by hayemaker Sun 28 Dec 2014, 10:38 am

First topic message reminder :

Hi everyone. Hope Christmqs has been a good one. Here is just a little something for some of the Haye doubters out there to ponder.

Former two-division world champion David Haye (26-2, 24KOs) has assured his fans that they haven't seen the last of him. The 34-year-old boxer is promising to return in style. Haye has been inactive since July 2012, when he knocked out Dereck Chisora.

Since the win over Chisora, injuries forced him to withdraw from planned fight with Manuel Charr and two scheduled dates with Tyson Fury. The second injury promoted Haye to get right shoulder surgery and says doctors advised me to retire.

"The shoulder is fixed, for me that was the most important thing. I didn't want to rush an announcement [on my comeback], have a set back, and have to have another six months out," Haye told The Independent. "I'm punching harder than before now because of the rehab. My right is now stronger than my left and is stronger than before surgery. Trust me, 2015 is the return of 'The Hayemaker', I'll be bigger, better, faster, stronger, with a new plan."

This is exactly what I have been expecting. I think after a year of disappointment 2015 is going to be a HUGE one for Haye. He is fit again and already plotting his comeback. We havent seen the last of the Hyemaker! Expect big things in 2015!

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:38 pm

hayemaker wrote:
Rowley wrote:
hayemaker wrote: Wilders manager will not be able to make that kind of money anywhere lese because Haye is the only ppv heavyweight out there at the moment.

You're right you know. An unbeaten American world heavyweight champion will almost certainly have to come cap in hand to Haye to make a living.

Haye is a far bigger ppv star and proven fighter than Wilder. Wilder would also be an easy nights work for Haye. Its would be a huge fight ppv fight though. Wilder is not going to get on ppv fighting the kind of bums he faces. He will need a proven world class heavyweight like Haye if he wants to be in mega fights.

You don't quite know how boxing works do you?

You do need enhance your vocabulary to include more than just; Haye, proven, world, class and Heavyweight.

by Rowley Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:39 pm

Genuine question Hayemaker, have you ever spoken to any American boxing fans about Haye? I have, can assure you they don't particularly share your opinion as to either his abilities or his PPV worthiness.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:41 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:You seem to be ignoring one thing Hayemaker, that if Wilder does win against Stiverne, then Al Haymon is going to put him no where near any man with a pulse.

Haye is a ppv star so his fights are big money. Other boxers want to fight him just for a pay day. Its a bit like Mayweather where fighters know they will lose but they will get a huge payday. Wilders manager will not be able to make that kind of money anywhere lese because Haye is the only ppv heavyweight out there at the moment.

Yup, Mayweather and Haye, two unbeatable and avoided ATG peas in a pod.

I would say Mayweather is the more skillfull fighter although he can only dream of havings Hayes power. Although Mayweather is pound for pound number 1 he also doesnt have to face opponents who are 50 or 100 pounds heavier than him. Mayweather would have to fight light heavyweights to compare with the size differnace Haye has to face against giant heavyweights. Mayweather is the biggest ppv earner in the history of the sport but right now Haye is the biggest ppv heavyweight on the planet.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:42 pm

Rowley wrote:Genuine question Hayemaker, have you ever spoken to any American boxing fans about Haye? I have, can assure you they don't particularly share your opinion as to either his abilities or his PPV worthiness.

America has no ppv heavyweights. Haye is the only ppv heavyweight in the world.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:45 pm

Except Haye isn't active so how can he be PPV?

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:47 pm

When Haye fights he is ppv. His last fight before he got injured was going to be ppv against Fury. No other heavyweight in the world has the kind of ppv power.

by Rowley Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:50 pm

Would not assume Haye would be PPV should he come back. Sky have been burned more than once with him, has stunk the joint out a couple of times on PPV (Wlad and Audley to name two) and pulled out of his last two dates. The assumption he would walk straight back into a PPV date is far from guaranteed.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:54 pm

Also...proven heavyweight

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:54 pm

People will always pay to watch Haye because he is a genuine world class heavyweight with an exciting style and knock out power. I think Haye will only be targetting big fights in any case but what would be the point in coming back otherwise?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:55 pm

You really can drop the WUM act now, it's getting a bit boring, typing the same post 121 times isn't going to make it any less true than the first time.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 9:57 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You really can drop the WUM act now, it's getting a bit boring, typing the same post 121 times isn't going to make it any less true than the first time.

Why are you still on this thread?

by Steffan Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:09 pm

hayemaker wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:You really can drop the WUM act now, it's getting a bit boring, typing the same post 121 times isn't going to make it any less true than the first time.

Why are you still on this thread?

I'd throw a party if both of you stopped posting on this forum. Well actually Hayemaker I would miss you a bit. You remind me of that kid in school who goes around telling everyone how hard his dad is Smile

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:15 pm

hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:You seem to be ignoring one thing Hayemaker, that if Wilder does win against Stiverne, then Al Haymon is going to put him no where near any man with a pulse.

Haye is a ppv star so his fights are big money. Other boxers want to fight him just for a pay day. Its a bit like Mayweather where fighters know they will lose but they will get a huge payday. Wilders manager will not be able to make that kind of money anywhere lese because Haye is the only ppv heavyweight out there at the moment.

Yup, Mayweather and Haye, two unbeatable and avoided ATG peas in a pod.

I would say Mayweather is the more skillfull fighter although he can only dream of havings Hayes power. Although Mayweather is pound for pound number 1 he also doesnt have to face opponents who are 50 or 100 pounds heavier than him. Mayweather would have to fight light heavyweights to compare with the size differnace Haye has to face against giant heavyweights. Mayweather is the biggest ppv earner in the history of the sport but right now Haye is the biggest ppv heavyweight on the planet.

Bet Mayweather will be happy to know you've given him the nod for skill in that battle. Phew!!

One day you might read your posts back and cringe!

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:17 pm

A lot of people will remember Haye vs Klitchko and that was not an exciting style was it? Even the casual fan is bored of Haye now.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:19 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:You seem to be ignoring one thing Hayemaker, that if Wilder does win against Stiverne, then Al Haymon is going to put him no where near any man with a pulse.

Haye is a ppv star so his fights are big money. Other boxers want to fight him just for a pay day. Its a bit like Mayweather where fighters know they will lose but they will get a huge payday. Wilders manager will not be able to make that kind of money anywhere lese because Haye is the only ppv heavyweight out there at the moment.

Yup, Mayweather and Haye, two unbeatable and avoided ATG peas in a pod.

I would say Mayweather is the more skillfull fighter although he can only dream of havings Hayes power. Although Mayweather is pound for pound number 1 he also doesnt have to face opponents who are 50 or 100 pounds heavier than him. Mayweather would have to fight light heavyweights to compare with the size differnace Haye has to face against giant heavyweights. Mayweather is the biggest ppv earner in the history of the sport but right now Haye is the biggest ppv heavyweight on the planet.

Bet Mayweather will be happy to know you've given him the nod for skill in that battle. Phew!!

One day you might read your posts back and cringe!

Why? You are comparing a heavyweight to a welterweight.

Boxers outside of the heavyweight division have the luxury of weight classes to even the odds. At heavyweight that goes out the window. Haye has massive power but he is a natural cruiserweight who moved up to heavyweight. He has to fight guys far far bigger than him. Its not easy when you are giving away so much in height, weight and reach. How good do you think Mayweather woud look if he had to fight light heavyweights and cruiserweights?

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:23 pm

hampo171 wrote:A lot of people will remember Haye vs Klitchko and that was not an exciting style was it? Even the casual fan is bored of Haye now.

Based on what? Your own hatred of him?

Haye is a massive star and fights on ppv so no people are not bored of him. Some people have been disappointing with his injuries and inactivity but when he makes a comeback it will be be big news. When he fights it will be ppv. When he fights for world titles it will be in stadiums.

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:24 pm

Steffan wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:You really can drop the WUM act now, it's getting a bit boring, typing the same post 121 times isn't going to make it any less true than the first time.

Why are you still on this thread?
I'd throw a party if both of you stopped posting on this forum. Well actually Hayemaker I would miss you a bit. You remind me of that kid in school who goes around telling everyone how hard his dad is

I think hayemaker might love Haye more than you'd love to go on Time Team and unexpectedly excavate Joe Calzaghe from a old roman burial site.

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:27 pm

hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:You seem to be ignoring one thing Hayemaker, that if Wilder does win against Stiverne, then Al Haymon is going to put him no where near any man with a pulse.

Haye is a ppv star so his fights are big money. Other boxers want to fight him just for a pay day. Its a bit like Mayweather where fighters know they will lose but they will get a huge payday. Wilders manager will not be able to make that kind of money anywhere lese because Haye is the only ppv heavyweight out there at the moment.

Yup, Mayweather and Haye, two unbeatable and avoided ATG peas in a pod.

I would say Mayweather is the more skillfull fighter although he can only dream of havings Hayes power. Although Mayweather is pound for pound number 1 he also doesnt have to face opponents who are 50 or 100 pounds heavier than him. Mayweather would have to fight light heavyweights to compare with the size differnace Haye has to face against giant heavyweights. Mayweather is the biggest ppv earner in the history of the sport but right now Haye is the biggest ppv heavyweight on the planet.

Bet Mayweather will be happy to know you've given him the nod for skill in that battle. Phew!!

One day you might read your posts back and cringe!

Why? You are comparing a heavyweight to a welterweight.

Boxers outside of the heavyweight division have the luxury of weight classes to even the odds. At heavyweight that goes out the window. Haye has massive power but he is a natural cruiserweight who moved up to heavyweight. He has to fight guys far far bigger than him. Its not easy when you are giving away so much in height, weight and reach. How good do you think Mayweather woud look if he had to fight light heavyweights and cruiserweights?

No I didn't? You did? Read the line you wrote "it's a bit like Mayweather... Blah blah know they'll lose blah payday blah".

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:27 pm

hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:A lot of people will remember Haye vs Klitchko and that was not an exciting style was it? Even the casual fan is bored of Haye now.

Based on what? Your own hatred of him?

Haye is a massive star and fights on ppv so no people are not bored of him. Some people have been disappointing with his injuries and inactivity but when he makes a comeback it will be be big news. When he fights it will be ppv. When he fights for world titles it will be in stadiums.

Why do you persist with accusing everyone who doesn't share your view of hating Haye, it's infantile at the least.

He fought Harrison, Ruiz, Valuev, Wlad and Chisora on PPV, none of the fights were exciting in the least, he was blowing after five rounds against Ruiz and was fortunate he was in against an old man with no power.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:28 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:A lot of people will remember Haye vs Klitchko and that was not an exciting style was it? Even the casual fan is bored of Haye now.

Based on what? Your own hatred of him?

Haye is a massive star and fights on ppv so no people are not bored of him. Some people have been disappointing with his injuries and inactivity but when he makes a comeback it will be be big news. When he fights it will be ppv. When he fights for world titles it will be in stadiums.

Why do you persist with accusing everyone who doesn't share your view of hating Haye, it's infantile at the least.

He fought Harrison, Ruiz, Valuev, Wlad and Chisora on PPV, none of the fights were exciting in the least, he was blowing after five rounds against Ruiz and was fortunate he was in against an old man with no power.

Still here then. Staying?

by jimdig Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:29 pm

Canelo outweighed mayweather by about 20lbs, much the same weight difference as that of haye and wlad, height difference was similar too.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:32 pm

Much less than what Klitschko or Valuev outweighed Haye plus Alvarez was forced to fight at a catchweight to drain him down. Klitschko and Valuev could come in weighing whatever they like. Massive difference.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:34 pm

I've asked you time and time again to prove where anyone has said they hate David Haye and you can't, so please shut up with the hatred crap as it makes you look a complete idiot who can't debate a point properly.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:37 pm

hampo171 wrote:I've asked you time and time again to prove where anyone has said they hate David Haye and you can't, so please shut up with the hatred crap as it makes you look a complete idiot who can't debate a point properly.

Please prove that everyone is bored of Haye then. You cant so please shut up with that anti Haye crap. It obvious you have a hatred of him spouting stuff like Haye is not a world class heavyweight and everyone is bored of him. Total nonsense.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:40 pm

Haye 210lbs
Wlad 242lbs

Which is a weight difference of 15%

Mayweather 150lbs
Alvarez 165lbs

Which is a weight difference of 10%

Not exactly much of a difference is it and not enough to start making out Haye is really going up against it in comparison to others, he unlike Mayweather can pack on as much weight as he wants.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:41 pm

Look at what the other people in this thread have posted, numerous of them have said they are bored of him constantly letting the fans down, yet you chose to ignore them. Whatever floats your boat mate, but we have a lot of very educated fans on this board who know their boxing and they all seem to be saying the same thing.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:41 pm

hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:I've asked you time and time again to prove where anyone has said they hate David Haye and you can't, so please shut up with the hatred crap as it makes you look a complete idiot who can't debate a point properly.

Please prove that everyone is bored of Haye then. You cant so please shut up with that anti Haye crap. It obvious you have a hatred of him spouting stuff like Haye is not a world class heavyweight and everyone is bored of him. Total nonsense.

Shall we do a vote to see who is bored of David Haye, I for one am and am sure many others will also say yes.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:43 pm

Yes the ten people who post on this thread represent the boxing fans for the whole world. Maybe check out Hayes twitter where he has over a million followers.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:43 pm

HH you clearly hate David Haye and every member of his family, go stand in the corner and hang your head in shame.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:45 pm

hayemaker wrote:Yes the ten people who post on this thread represent the boxing fans for the whole world. Maybe check out Hayes twitter where he has over a million followers.

Right, Haye has 1.5m twitter followers, Piers Morgan has 4.5m followers doesn't mean people aren't board of the crap they spout? How many of them are dormant accounts for example?

It's simple, show the other posters on here respect and you will get it back, keep accusing them of hating Mr Haye and you will be mocked by them. Honestly I don't care which you do, but don't come crying to the staff who run this section when you get fed up of it.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:47 pm

hampo171 wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Yes the ten people who post on this thread represent the boxing fans for the whole world. Maybe check out Hayes twitter where he has over a million followers.

Right, Haye has 1.5m twitter followers, Piers Morgan has 4.5m followers doesn't mean people aren't board of the crap they spout? How many of them are dormant accounts for example?

It's simple, show the other posters on here respect and you will get it back, keep accusing them of hating Mr Haye and you will be mocked by them. Honestly I don't care which you do, but don't come crying to the staff who run this section when you get fed up of it.

Yes because a biased person like you will be so even handed!

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:49 pm

hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Yes the ten people who post on this thread represent the boxing fans for the whole world. Maybe check out Hayes twitter where he has over a million followers.

Right, Haye has 1.5m twitter followers, Piers Morgan has 4.5m followers doesn't mean people aren't board of the crap they spout? How many of them are dormant accounts for example?

It's simple, show the other posters on here respect and you will get it back, keep accusing them of hating Mr Haye and you will be mocked by them. Honestly I don't care which you do, but don't come crying to the staff who run this section when you get fed up of it.

Yes because a biased person like you will be so even handed!

I thought of another person who spouts as much crap as Haye does, Piers Morgan is pretty close to that in fairness.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:50 pm

You are well ahead of both of them mate, dont worry

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:50 pm

hayemaker wrote:Much less than what Klitschko or Valuev outweighed Haye plus Alvarez was forced to fight at a catchweight to drain him down. Klitschko and Valuev could come in weighing whatever they like. Massive difference.

So I guess you're baffled why Valuev failed so miserably as a boxer then if extra size and weight is always an advantage why wasn't he any good? I'm not sure you understand boxing or the weight classes but trust me, after a certain point extra size and weight means nothing but being slower, cumbersome, and less coordinated. Haye is a small heavy but hey, there have been smaller men that have shown him how it can be done, Hayes just not as good as they were... Don't cry, its not your fault.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:51 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
hampo171 wrote:I've asked you time and time again to prove where anyone has said they hate David Haye and you can't, so please shut up with the hatred crap as it makes you look a complete idiot who can't debate a point properly.

Please prove that everyone is bored of Haye then. You cant so please shut up with that anti Haye crap. It obvious you have a hatred of him spouting stuff like Haye is not a world class heavyweight and everyone is bored of him. Total nonsense.

Shall we do a vote to see who is bored of David Haye, I for one am and am sure many others will also say yes.

Haye will be gutted at that Im sure

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:51 pm

hayemaker wrote:You are well ahead of both of them mate, dont worry

I will ask you to read the PM I sent you, because I'm getting bored of you and you're crap.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:52 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Much less than what Klitschko or Valuev outweighed Haye plus Alvarez was forced to fight at a catchweight to drain him down. Klitschko and Valuev could come in weighing whatever they like. Massive difference.

So I guess you're baffled why Valuev failed so miserably as a boxer then if extra size and weight is always an advantage why wasn't he any good? I'm not sure you understand boxing or the weight classes but trust me, after a certain point extra size and weight means nothing but being slower, cumbersome, and less coordinated. Haye is a small heavy but hey, there have been smaller men that have shown him how it can be done, Hayes just not as good as they were... Don't cry, its not your fault.

Failed miserably? He only lost two fights in his whole career and was heavyweight champion of the world and you call that failing miserably?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:53 pm

Valuev was the very definition of a paper champion who had career steered through the path of least resistance. He should have lost more than twice if the judges had their eyes open.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 10:56 pm

Heavyweight champion of the world and only lost two out of god knows how many fights. Some of you lot should take it up if you call that failing miserably.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:00 pm

Valuev was a terrible champion, terrible boxer period. Just because he fought David Haye, it didn't make him the second coming of Ali. He is easily one of the worst champions in history.

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:01 pm

hayemaker wrote:Heavyweight champion of the world and only lost two out of god knows how many fights. Some of you lot should take it up if you call that failing miserably.

But yet you criticise the unbeaten Wilder with 32 wins all by KO? I don't get you. You understand why that stat is crud but handily can't do the same with Valuevs record. That's a good skill in arguments, play dumb.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:03 pm

Yeah Klitschko is rubbish, Valuev failed miserably, Haye is not world class. Call yourself boxing fans but all you do is pour negativity on boxers who have achieved far more in their lives than most people on here.

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:04 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Heavyweight champion of the world and only lost two out of god knows how many fights. Some of you lot should take it up if you call that failing miserably.

But yet you criticise the unbeaten Wilder with 32 wins all by KO? I don't get you. You understand why that stat is crud but handily can't do the same with Valuevs record. That's a good skill in agreements, play dumb.

Er I am asking how a boxer who was heavyweight champion and only lost two fights was a miserable failure. Did I call Wilder a miserable failure? I dont think so.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:05 pm

Jesus H Christ, do you listen to yourself. There are plenty of people who post on this board that have forgotten more about boxing than you know at this point in time, try listening to them rather than throwing a strop when they don't agree.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:05 pm

hayemaker wrote:Yeah Klitschko is rubbish, Valuev failed miserably, Haye is not world class. Call yourself boxing fans but all you do is pour negativity on boxers who have achieved far more in their lives than most people on here.

Yet at the same time you said this earlier.

hayemaker wrote: No wonder Kahn is so unpopular the way he goes on. He calls out Mayweather and has done nothing to earn a shot. Khan is only interested in a pay day and is just trying to talk his way into a fight.

by DuransHorse Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:07 pm

hayemaker wrote:Yeah Klitschko is rubbish, Valuev failed miserably, Haye is not world class. Call yourself boxing fans but all you do is pour negativity on boxers who have achieved far more in their lives than most people on here.

Try writing objectively and we can all respond to you like a big boy. Write like an obsessed fan and people will ridicule you. Simple. Your articles are... Gushy... Yes that's the word. Gushy!!

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:08 pm

hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Heavyweight champion of the world and only lost two out of god knows how many fights. Some of you lot should take it up if you call that failing miserably.

But yet you criticise the unbeaten Wilder with 32 wins all by KO? I don't get you. You understand why that stat is crud but handily can't do the same with Valuevs record. That's a good skill in agreements, play dumb.

Er I am asking how a boxer who was heavyweight champion and only lost two fights was a miserable failure. Did I call Wilder a miserable failure? I dont think so.

Without going back through the thread, I'd wager you've called him a bum. Valuev was manouvered away from every tough challenge, up until Haye who he couldn't avoid. Go look at his record, there are no names on there, he beat an old Ruiz twice, an old and well past his prime Holyfield, before losing to Haye. He is not a great fighter, and for someone with his dimensions (height, weight and reach) he was woefully unskilled.

by **hampo17** Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:08 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Yeah Klitschko is rubbish, Valuev failed miserably, Haye is not world class. Call yourself boxing fans but all you do is pour negativity on boxers who have achieved far more in their lives than most people on here.

Try writing objectively and we can all respond to you like a big boy. Write like an obsessed fan and people will ridicule you. Simple. Your articles are... Gushy... Yes that's the word. Gushy!!

by hayemaker Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:09 pm

hampo171 wrote:Jesus H Christ, do you listen to yourself. There are plenty of people who post on this board that have forgotten more about boxing than you know at this point in time, try listening to them rather than throwing a strop when they don't agree.

People are talking rubbish when they call Valuev a miserable failure and Haye not a world class heavyweight. Simple as.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan 2015, 11:10 pm

hampo171 wrote:
hayemaker wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Heavyweight champion of the world and only lost two out of god knows how many fights. Some of you lot should take it up if you call that failing miserably.

But yet you criticise the unbeaten Wilder with 32 wins all by KO? I don't get you. You understand why that stat is crud but handily can't do the same with Valuevs record. That's a good skill in agreements, play dumb.

Er I am asking how a boxer who was heavyweight champion and only lost two fights was a miserable failure. Did I call Wilder a miserable failure? I dont think so.

Without going back through the thread, I'd wager you've called him a bum. Valuev was manouvered away from every tough challenge, up until Haye who he couldn't avoid. Go look at his record, there are no names on there, he beat an old Ruiz twice, an old and well past his prime Holyfield, before losing to Haye. He is not a great fighter, and for someone with his dimensions (height, weight and reach) he was woefully unskilled.

He should also have lost to both Ruiz and Holyfield as well as Larry Donald but being Don Kings money man (baffling I know) he got more than his fair share of gifts.

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