We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Dirty, scheming, diving sh!thouse.

[Hero]

Picking my choice of greatest Liverpool player is like trying to decide which is my fave song by Justin Timberlake. But I'd pick Hansen over Kenny myself, Liverpool were always renowned for their defence and he for was the lynchpin of it.

[Stella]

I don't understand why Gerrard isn't considered as good as Souness etc, as he never won countless titles, and European cups? Gerrard would have walked into the late 70's / early 80's team, and on the flip side, would Souness have been so revered if he had played in this current team? Circumstance has left Gerrard without a league title.

[kingraf]

Up for debate how much a poor first touch and a slip can be described as "circumstance"

[Fernando]

Gary Cahill cleared by FA for Stomping & Kicking Harry Kane as the referee saw it apparently...

It's a campaign I tell you, A campaign

[hampo17]

Surely the refs who see these incidents but decide they are acceptable need punishing. They won't change the rule as it'll be overruling the officials they're so desperate to back despite how incompetent.

[kwinigolfer]

Cahill having much more disciplinary luck in Chelsea colours than he did with Bolton.
Didn't he get red-carded for last man when on the halfway line?
Can't imagine why any ref who saw a player kicking the sh1t out of an opponent wouldn't send him off. Probably scared of a b0ll0cking from Moronho.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Cahill having much more disciplinary luck in Chelsea colours than he did with Bolton.
Didn't he get red-carded for last man when on the halfway line?
Can't imagine why any ref who saw a player kicking the sh1t out of an opponent wouldn't send him off. Probably scared of a b0ll0cking from Moronho.

Poor old Jose................Ball boys cost them the game the other week...........Referee this week...............

Look forward to the day Chelsea lose a game fair and square,

[Fernando]

BBC saying Pardew signed his contract at Palace earlier this evening...

[compelling and rich]

would say that gerrard is Liverpools best player

all the old timers more decorated but then again they won european cups when it was really easy

think that gerrard is just a better footballer than those 70's players, i mean souness main job was to kick lumps out of people, would never have made it in today's football yet vice versa and gerrard still bosses it in that 70's team

[mystiroakey]

BBC saying Pardew signed his contract at Palace earlier this evening...

typical palace- leave it till the last minute- i hope he has been doing training anyway!

[Guest]

Looks like we got £3.5m out of you for Pardew

[mystiroakey]

thats all right. if he keeps us up its worth 50m plus

[Fernando]

Looks like we got £3.5m out of you for Pardew

You got screwed. Considering how long he had left on his contract

[Guest]

Not too bothered about what we could of got, we'll never see the majority of it anyway.

I've read that 'Arsenal earmark Newcastle midfielder Moussa Sissoko as answer to their defensive midfield woes'. We played him in the holding role, he was awful, all his strengths are going forward as a ball carrier with pace, in the mould of Yaya. Not sure Arsenal will improve buying Moussa at all. But if your desperately throwing £16m our way, can see it happening.

[Hammersmith harrier]

would say that gerrard is Liverpools best player

all the old timers more decorated but then again they won european cups when it was really easy

think that gerrard is just a better footballer than those 70's players, i mean souness main job was to kick lumps out of people, would never have made it in today's football yet vice versa and gerrard still bosses it in that 70's team

I've never understood how having second rate teams from the top leagues makes it harder to win, the elite are the teams you ultimately have to beat, getting past Schalke, Arsenal, Malaga or Roma beforehand doesn't change that.

At the end of the day being a vital part of a dominant team will elevate your status amongst fans and critics, sacrilege to say but I could never regard Robson higher than Charlton, Scholes or even Keane for that simple reason.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its sacrilege to say Robson isnt better than Charlton, Scholes or Keane? He wasnt better than them! My first ever favourite player, but I dont think he was as good a player as those 3. Get the point though, Hughes is probably a better player than Solskjaer but I'd never say I really thought that.

[Stella]

So, Messi and Ronaldo aren't two of the best players ever, going by your logic?

[mystiroakey]

Gaza is the best ENglish player in my lifetime- yet he never played for the best teams.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Going by what logic and i'm not talking about who is the better player but their legendary status

Both important players in dominant teams, multiple European championships but without that defining international moment they won't be at the same level as Pele or Maradona or even Zidane for me.

[Stella]

I think Gerrard will be seen as just a big as a legend than say Paul Scholes will. Difference was, Paul had a great manager at the helm, whilst Gerrard played under a revolving door policy, which saw managers come and go. You could argue that Gerrard played better in the big games than Scholes. I do think Gerrard is getting some unfair criticism, down to the fact he played for a club he loved.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Paul Gascoigne is the best English player I've seen since I've been here...

To hell with whether he was in a great team or not.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It's perception, my personal opinion is that Gerrard has an elevated status because he was a big fish in a small pond so had more opportunity to stand out. Being a stereotypical English midfielder helps and always lead to Scholes getting overlooked on these shores.

Gerrard playing better in the big games ultimately comes down to matches one of which he didn't play that great in anyway.

He might well be held in just as high regard by Liverpool fans as Scholes is by Man United but that just goes to highlight the level of team they were playing in.

[compelling and rich]

I think Gerrard will be seen as just a big as a legend than say Paul Scholes will. Difference was, Paul had a great manager at the helm, whilst Gerrard played under a revolving door policy, which saw managers come and go. You could argue that Gerrard played better in the big games than Scholes. I do think Gerrard is getting some unfair criticism, down to the fact he played for a club he loved.

now i know i will come across as being biased seeing as scholes is one of my favorite ever players, but you could easy say that standing out in a weak team is easier than standing out in a great team. gerrard didnt have much with him for large parts, as a result pretty easy for him too look the best player. much more difficult when your players with fellow great players that scholes did

[TRUSSMAN66]

As a United fan Hammer......One may assume you may not have the most impartial point of view...

Great midfielder in my opinion and kudos to him for staying loyal to the club he loves and trying his best to improve it...

[guildfordbat]

would say that gerrard is Liverpools best player

all the old timers more decorated but then again they won european cups when it was really easy

think that gerrard is just a better footballer than those 70's players, i mean souness main job was to kick lumps out of people, would never have made it in today's football yet vice versa and gerrard still bosses it in that 70's team

It's only fair to Liverpool's stand out attacking players of the '60's and 70's to wonder how better still the likes of St John, Hunt, Keegan and, especially, Heighway would have been if they weren't having lumps regularly kicked out of them.

[compelling and rich]

would say that gerrard is Liverpools best player

all the old timers more decorated but then again they won european cups when it was really easy

think that gerrard is just a better footballer than those 70's players, i mean souness main job was to kick lumps out of people, would never have made it in today's football yet vice versa and gerrard still bosses it in that 70's team

It's only fair to Liverpool's stand out attacking players of the '60's and 70's to wonder how better still the likes of St John, Hunt, Keegan and, especially, Heighway would have been if they weren't having lumps regularly kicked out of them.

agreed, its why best was such a great player. messi nor ronaldo could have handled the treatment he received but that then dissolves into nature nurture argument

but i saw souness name being mentioned as a great Liverpool player who's up there with gerrard when in truth he was just a hatchet man, he would have rings run round him today without the ability to kick people, which has nothing to do with football

[Hammersmith harrier]

Go back to the 70's and Liverpool are never awarded that penalty and the rest as they say is history.

[compelling and rich]

would say that gerrard is Liverpools best player

all the old timers more decorated but then again they won european cups when it was really easy

think that gerrard is just a better footballer than those 70's players, i mean souness main job was to kick lumps out of people, would never have made it in today's football yet vice versa and gerrard still bosses it in that 70's team

I've never understood how having second rate teams from the top leagues makes it harder to win, the elite are the teams you ultimately have to beat, getting past Schalke, Arsenal, Malaga or Roma beforehand doesn't change that.

At the end of the day being a vital part of a dominant team will elevate your status amongst fans and critics, sacrilege to say but I could never regard Robson higher than Charlton, Scholes or even Keane for that simple reason.

you dont see how having real madrid (who won it i may add), chelsea, althetico madrid, arsenal, dortmund in last seasons champions league makes it harder to win than playing the likes of malmo, brugge, bucuresti, Panathinaikos etc in champions league?

not to mention the increase in professionalism in all countries and extra money now meaning best players can play all round europe, how many of the great brazilian side of the 70's were playing in the European cup? 3 of the best of the top off my head in pele, zocrates and zico never played in it. wouldnt happen in todays game. champions league is the pinnacle now, wasnt then

[guildfordbat]

Go back to the 70's and Liverpool are never awarded that penalty and the rest as they say is history.

Sorry, struggling here. What 70's penalty are you referring to?

[Hammersmith harrier]

I was referring to the penalty Gerrard won in Instanbul, if we used a time machine to go back that wouldn't have been given. Adding a bit of balance to the Souness time machine comparisons.

[guildfordbat]

To be fair to Souness, there was more to his game than being just a hatchet man. Also, as others have suggested, you have to judge players in the era they played. Souness' approach was eminently suited to his time. There again, Best's undoubtedly wasn't - and that, as Compelling notes, contributes to him being regarded as an all time great.

[kwinigolfer]

Gerrard's been such a terrific player I don't understand for one moment why he's being slagged off for what he isn't, rather than praised for what he has been.

Agree w/Guildford about Souness . . . . . . . But, surely, Best's style was suited to ANY time? A stronger, harder version of Eddie Gray who'll never be mentioned in the same breath as a result.

[Crimey]

The other thing Gerrard had going in his favour, which some could possibly say was actually a weakness, is that I can't think of many other players who you could literally play in all 10 outfield positions and do a good job in all. Others may say by being that well-rounded he never became as good as he could have been had he specialised in one position.

I think Gerrard will go down in history as probably in the top two of Liverpool players of all time, it's just whether Dalglish or Gerrard is top. No other player I can think of had the ability to win games on his own, and not just small games but huge games and games that won trophies or meant getting closer to winning a trophy. I think internationally he wasn't as bad as some have made out and did captain England to three international tournaments.

I also think his performances last year are being undervalued, I'd say in level of performance Liverpool players went 1. Suarez 2. Gerrard 3. Sturridge/Henderson last year, I genuinely think without him Liverpool wouldn't have got anywhere near the title he was incredibly important.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I want Paul Lambert back

[guildfordbat]

Gerrard's been such a terrific player I don't understand for one moment why he's being slagged off for what he isn't, rather than praised for what he has been.

Agree w/Guildford about Souness . . . . . . . But, surely, Best's style was suited to ANY time? A stronger, harder version of Eddie Gray who'll never be mentioned in the same breath as a result.

Kwini - agreed. What I was trying to convey about Best was that he was sufficiently gifted all round to be an all time great even though playing in an era when skill was too commonly hacked down.

[guildfordbat]

Hammersmith,
Would have thought Shankly's teams were the "bedrock of Liverpool's dominance" - those who came later built upon the foundations that the great teams of the 60's and 70's laid down.
Gerrard for me will go down as a superb leader, a great "League" footballer and club servant, who did all the ordinary things at an extraordinarily high level, with great energy and fortitude. But not a genius as very few have been, and which Dalglish certainly was.  

Gerrard's overall mediocre record for England will also be considered when measuring his "greatness", Lampard's too of course.

...

Maybe not too surprising as I'm from a similar generation as Kwini but I do believe he's totally on the money here concerning both Gerrard and the historic roots of Liverpool's dominance.

With regard to Liverpool's dominance, Shankly was quoted as regarding ''the turning point'' as being his signings of Ian St John and Ron Yeats (likening the latter to ''a colossus'' and saying ''With him in defence, we could play Arthur Askey* in goal''). However, probably greater than any particular individual player, was the style and belief Shankly brought the club. Something that Paisley built upon and developed with his own understated brilliance.

* For younger posters - Askey was a very short Liverpudian comedian.

[Fernando]

Rumors suggesting Chesney has been given a big fine by Arsenal. Was a rumor about being dropped for the season but apparently that's the guy's own opinion...

Fight? No idea, It came from Danish TV

“It is true. Szczesny after the Southampton match didn’t behave as you should when you’ve just conceded two goals.”

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Didn't he say that Hawkes' behaviour in the changing room is what nailed it? He's no good anyway.

On the "Ronaldo and Messi couldn't handle th physical treatment Best got" - Best couldn't likely handle how good the majority of defenders are nowadays. Goes ignored that the best defenders of bygone days, Baresi, Moore, beckenbauer and even a name like Hansen (arguably worthy of discussion in the liverpool greats talk) were not kick and fight merchants. But nowadays that isn't something you have to explain; defenders are far smarter and far better. As are tactics

[daraghj82]

gerrard will be remembered as an extremely influential player for liverpool similar to robson, keane for utd, i think souness and roy keane were similar type of players in the sense that gerrard is very much like a modern day bryan robson.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well, looks like Song will be heading to the AFCON, which is a damn shame. Allardyce also says he expects Reid to leave at the end of the season; I would expect Arsenal and Liverpool both to be interested, United should be but will hold themselves to loftier ambitions

[Fernando]

If you were Big Sam now Dolph, Sell Reid for 4-7m or let him go free in summer

[Hammersmith harrier]

Dolph, the standard of defending is shocking at the moment and there is no chance that any English defender is near the level of Charlton let alone Moore. Best would tear defences apart today with the amount of protection he'd get.

[mystiroakey]

IS defending that bad?

Its collective- Even the best sides in the world internationally or domestically are leaking goals..Brazil got hammered by Germany- Germany have also defended horrifically in there euro groups.. Bayern smashed roma(a very well looked at defensive team before, chelsea got smashed by Totenham, totenham got smashed by chelsea, etc, etc)


Maybe the attackers have just got better, and we are witnessing a higher curve with one part of the game.. That or the world isnt producing defenders any more..

[mystiroakey]

I am not whinging , but Palace losing Jedi and Bolaise is a very big deal to us..

Our two best players by some distance this season..

Pardew is going to find the next few games tough.

[kwinigolfer]

Happy New Year mysti,

Quality of defenders?
You know, they say in golf that the biggest technological advance in the sport over the past fifty years has been in the quality of the lawnmower.
When comparing the current game, with usually more goals, surely you have to consider the quality of agronomy that goes into preparing vastly superior pitches, and the evolution of the ball?
Neither of these advances are necessarily to help defences, they're to provide higher quality football and, thence more goals.

[mystiroakey]

Happy new year fella!

I need to read one of your golf threads soon!

Yep I agree - the quality of pitch and maybe ball is part of it.. as is the refereeing.

[kwinigolfer]

Refereeing presumably being better than ever . . . . . !

[mystiroakey]

lets say different

[nadeem2099]

The pitch is a very important factor in a match. If the ball bobbles all over the place then even the best players will have trouble controlling the football.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I want Paul Lambert back

Make it happen

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