We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Dirty, scheming, diving sh!thouse.

[Gerry SA]

I'm not sure where he's been unfit in the last few matches he has played in. Was the best player against Stoke, after he went off United had pretty much no attacking threat.

van Gaal has shown time and again, he's an idiot. Look at the Nethersland, even when van Persie played sh!t, he still wouldn't pick Huntelaar.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The thing is Gerry you don't have a clue how fit Falcao is so it seems a bit silly to call LVG an idiot for subbing a player he himself has said is not fully fit.

[Gerry SA]

The thing is Gerry you don't have a clue how fit Falcao is so it seems a bit silly to call LVG an idiot for subbing a player he himself has said is not fully fit.

100% but when you see the sharpness Falcao showed in the match against Stoke, the runs etc. And he wasn't exactly blowing when he came off. You have to question whether van Gaal has another agenda with Falcao and/or trying to get a better deal for the player by claiming the player is a walking injury.

[Hammersmith harrier]

You're watching from the comfort of your front room not watching him train every day, not watching him from pitchside but if you think you know more about a players fitness than the manager do carry on.

[Gerry SA]

You're watching from the comfort of your front room not watching him train every day, not watching him from pitchside but if you think you know more about a players fitness than the manager do carry on.

Will do

[Guest]

Every time I've seen Falcao, especially against Newcastle, Stoke
& Villa, he's been he best striker on the pitch. He scores important goals, he's already saved them in two games & against Stoke you could see he was fuming at being subbed. You can see LVG is stubborn, it's train his way or the high way, perform his way or your isolated out the team. I think he's had doubts from the start, even before Falcao could prove himself, once a man like LVG has an opinion, it's difficult to alter that. Don't see Falcao getting a sniff at a permant deal, LVG is probably thinking how he could spend that £43m elsewhere, especially in defence & wing back positions. We all knew LVG would favour RVP, nothing surprising there.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Its not about whether hes "fit" its about how his knee handles it. I don't question his agenda cos hes a manager who clearly gives more of a Poopie about winning than his players egos. Not that Holland needed Huntelaar who isnt a patch on RVP and RVP was pretty decent at the World Cup.

I'm not a big LVG fan but he is changing United and he clearly isnt an idiot. Hes one of the best managers of the modern era.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Every time I've seen Falcao, especially against Newcastle, Stoke
& Villa, he's been he best striker on the pitch. He scores important goals, he's already saved them in two games & against Stoke you could see he was fuming at being subbed. You can see LVG is stubborn, it's train his way or the high way, perform his way or your isolated out the team. I think he's had doubts from the start, even before Falcao could prove himself, once a man like LVG has an opinion, it's difficult to alter that. Don't see Falcao getting a sniff at a permant deal, LVG is probably thinking how he could spend that £43m elsewhere, especially in defence & wing back positions. We all knew LVG would favour RVP, nothing surprising there.

Important goals, all three he's scored but not taking into account the countless easy chances he's missed?

The rest is just a lot of garbage, what do you expect a manager to do, let the players train and perform how they want?

He's got very high standards and when you're managing a multi million pound team you have to and in the long term it will benefit the team and no disrespect to other teams but the expectations are astronomically high at Man United. He didn't pursue and sign Falcao with the intention of isolating him from the team, he's a loan signing who has to prove himself worthy of a permanent deal, we're not talking about money, the fees involved are sky high so he has to be 100% sure. At the point he's not he will obviously favour the permanent members of the team he will have moving forward in restyling the team how he wants it and how he wants it to perform.

[Ent]

Falcao was rested for one game.

He'd been playing well and getting back to full fitness, he'd play all 5 games over christmas and new year.

Sure he'll play this weekend.

[FootballLight]

I offer my opinion and I guess that is where you miss the point really. This is the forum and your saying my opinion "doesn't offer a lot" on a football forum used for debate? I've barely come on again for 24 hours and I am already considering staying off this site. Good/bad for you it certainly shouldn't be good for any forum runner/admin. Pathetic I really is. All you ever seem to do is criticize everyone else's view and take the majority view.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah don't worry light.. Offer the different opinion.

If you offer one that no one else agrees with you can get targeted.

But you eventually get proved right

Trust me I have been ripped up for opinions that eventually end up showing them up after a year or so. Stick to your guns mate. If everyone agreed this place would be boring as hell..

[mystiroakey]

Btw in regards to your 'is gaming a sport'

Yes in a way it is, just like snooker or darts are also sports.

It's a competitive game that requires certain skills and qualities.

Pro gaming(my cousin used to be one and he was net around the world and won prize money and was sponsored) requires amazing hand eye coordination..

Is it a physical activity = no. Does it require skill sets = yes. Is it professional = yes, is it co petition = yes.

THE ARGUMENT would allways turn in to a semantic one I guess. But I suppose this is a football forum. However there is nothing wrong with the occasional OFf Topic post.

[FootballLight]

There is always going to be ways to prove/disprove a point. They all seem valid enough to make a point to say that it is a sport but in general would it really class as a sport? It all depends on the exact definition of a sport for a answer. I was baffled to see that question on the BBC, I laughed it off straight away, but, with more consideration to take place, it's tough to call without actually knowing the facts first.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Sport requires you to change your shoes in my opinion so darts, snooker and definitely gaming are not sports.

I also rarely take the majority view so again you're talking out your arse, if you staying away means I don't have to read any more of your attention seeking garbage then all the better.

[hampo17]

What if you arrive to a snooker match in trainers but then change in to a smart pair of shoes, does that make it a sport?

[mystiroakey]

So ten pin bowling is a sport but darts isn't?

I can't agree Hammersmith..

Both are or both arnt, dependant on personal opinion.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Ten pin bowling is more of a sport than darts, Snooker and Darts are games at the end of the day, seems pithy to label them the same as Football, Rugby, Cricket, Cycling etc.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Yeah don't worry light.. Offer the different opinion.

If you offer one that no one else agrees with you can get targeted.

But you eventually get proved right

Trust me I have been ripped up for opinions that eventually end up showing them up after a year or so. Stick to your guns mate. If everyone agreed this place would be boring as hell..

Yeah, Zaha is great

[GSC]

By definition it isn't a sport. If that allows people to maintain some air of superiority then gratz I guess.

As much, if not more skill and training goes into it than darts or bowling. I really don't see the point in arguing over semantics. Does it discredit it if it isn't a sport? A better point is who cares.

[mystiroakey]

By definition it isn't a sport. If that allows people to maintain some air of superiority then gratz I guess.

As much, if not more skill and training goes into it than darts or bowling. I really don't see the point in arguing over semantics. Does it discredit it if it isn't a sport? A better point is who cares.

by definition it is actually a sport- but again the semantic arguments will follow as you have started. It has nothing to do with superiority- it has to do with pitting your skill(not intelligence only - like chess)against another in a competitive environment.

I dont care. Do you?

but your statement that "by definition it isnt" is wrong.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah don't worry light.. Offer the different opinion.

If you offer one that no one else agrees with you can get targeted.

But you eventually get proved right

Trust me I have been ripped up for opinions that eventually end up showing them up after a year or so. Stick to your guns mate. If everyone agreed this place would be boring as hell..

Yeah, Zaha is great

MOyes? last season- i said he would get sacked and wasn't up to it after week 3.. now everyone has changed there tune and admit it.

Arsenal making top 4- last 3 years!

i am sticking on zaha.

you will see

[mystiroakey]

Ten pin bowling is more of a sport than darts, Snooker and Darts are games at the end of the day, seems pithy to label them the same as Football, Rugby, Cricket, Cycling etc.

what does that even mean

oh this is more of a sport!

seriously what do you actually mean when you state that.

are you using the term sport in replacement of 'better'

it either is a sport or it isnt- end of.

if you prefer one more than another- its up to you. But it doesnt mean one more is better or harder

[Hammersmith harrier]

I prefer snooker to bowling Mysti and it's a far harder game to master but for me it lacks the physical exertion needed to be called a sport, the latter does to an extent.

[GSC]

Technically a sport is an activity involving physical exertion and skill. Skill part isn't debatable, exertion probably is.

All fairly irrelevant though, as much skill and practice goes into it as most professional sports.

[GSC]

10 pin bowling requires physical exertion?

[GSC]

And I agree with myst that there seems to be some feeling that being termed a sport makes it superior somehow.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Physical exertion, interesting. I know a lot of esports professionals who train a lot harder than sportsmen.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Goodbye Ricardo Vaz Te. Best moment supporting West Ham came thanks to him, tore some teams a new arris when we were down there. Got a couple important Prem goals too.

[Duty281]

If it involves shedding blood, toil, tears and sweat, as well as being an ordeal of the most grievous kind, then it is a sport.

Computer gaming is not a sport; nor is Darts. Or snooker. Or Chess. Or Poker.Or Monopoly. Or Scrabble.

[mystiroakey]

at least duty is eleminating all of those activitys as sports. I respect that.

However I call Golf a sport, I call snooker a sport-so it would be hypocritical fro me not to call a professional gamer a sportsman as it requires very similar traits.

Or is it that fact that the only sports i play are pool/snooker and golf the reason i call them sports

By the way i do not call intelligence games sport's that include no physical action.

snooker/pool and darts require a physical action. as does computer gaming. if you do not have the hand eye coordination or physical conditioning(as minor as many may think that is)- you will never make money.

[Ent]

Gaming isn't a sport, it's a game (clue is in the name). Much like poker etc.

Doesn't matter if you practice and compete.

My mate was irish scrabble champion and countdown champion of champions, hours of practice (stamina), high level competition - is he a sportsman? No.

[mystiroakey]

Ent scrabble isn't a sport. By definition using hand eye coordination(which includes physical movements) is what you need to get you head around and that is what is needed to define a sport. Scrabble does not require that. Gaming does, snooker does, darts does, golf does, poker doesn't, chess doesnt..

But as said this is symantic. It makes no difference. However read the definition of sport.

[GSC]

Physical exertion, interesting. I know a lot of esports professionals who train a lot harder than sportsmen.

Id agree, that's the dictionary definition.

As I say though, who really cares if it is or not. What difference does it make

[Hero]

If it involves shedding blood, toil, tears and sweat, as well as being an ordeal of the most grievous kind, then it is a sport.

Is that from the Ched Evans rules of sport?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Physical exertion, interesting. I know a lot of esports professionals who train a lot harder than sportsmen.

Id agree, that's the dictionary definition.

As I say though, who really cares if it is or not. What difference does it make

Not a jot to me, I always find it funny. I'm sure they dont give a Poopie, I know League of Legends players have become millionaires now. With Adidas as their sponsors i'm sure they aren't stressing about what people define them as, more interested that people click their streams and give them dollar

[FootballLight]

Lets settle this once and for all.

The (Wikipedia) definition of Sport is:

"Sport (or sports) is all forms of usually competitive physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing entertainment to participants, and in some cases, spectators."

So going by this definition (others may be different), this proves that online/offline (Fifa, Football Manager etc) is not a sport. Why?

"Competitive physical activity" is key. Of course gaming is competitive as you always want to win but it is not physical activity. I know there will be some smart @rsé (e.g. Hammersmith harrier ) that will find some way of being stubborn to disagree with me by saying, "your fingers move" but that isn't physical activity.

Doctors usually say that you need at least 30 minutes of walking a day to be "physically active". I (probably like the rest of us) wouldn't know an equation possible to calculate how many hours (or maybe even minutes) it would take for finger movement to use as much energy as 30 minutes of walking.

The only possible way someone could factually argue for gaming being a sport is if they could calculate how long it would take your (average) finger movement on a control pad or keyboard to have the SAME AMOUNT OF ENERGY USED as what is would to walk for 30 minutes. E.g. If in 30 minutes of walking you use 1kJ (KiloJules, the unit of energy) of energy, you would have to calculate how long it would take you to equal that amount through finger movement. So lets say (as an educated guess), it takes 5 hours without a break to equal 1kJ of energy used through finger movement, then you would need to play on a game with 5 hours of constant finger movement for you to equal the daily 30 minute walk to keep "physically fit". As long as you have a resting/working/recovery heart rate as well. If any of you have recently finished school and done PE at A-level or maybe even GCSE then you (might) understand this.

I don't blame you if you don't. That isn't exact either, it was just an educated calculation to try and get our heads around the idea. But, for all we know, it could take 30 minutes, 10 hours, 40 hours etc. Who knows.

[Guest]

gaming has demands, technical skill & repetitive physical exertion on the finger muscles & joins, leading to enhanced acceleration of arthritis in the hands. just like running around, wearing away cartilage in the knee joints.

[mystiroakey]

the point is- if you are a person that calls snooker and darts a sport- you have to include video gaming.

if you dont include them then thats fine..

its all down to how you interpret physical activity- If you define it as moving your body or body parts as an integral part of a sport- then darts. video gaming and snooker get in. If you up that to an arbitary level you could include golf but not the before, many might not even look at golf as a sport.

so the point we have here is does the sportsman have to be an athlete.

a golfer doesn't have to be fit, neither does a snooker player or a video gamer(i am not talking about football manager here, which would be akin to  a game like chess- i am talking about FPS games)- but they do need exceptional physical skills.

Its illogical to suggest that one sport is a sport and one isn't based on the fact that one is slightly more physical than the next.

You are getting to over complicated with your definition of a sport and with that it will fall down.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It doesn't cause enhanced acceleration of arthritis, there have been numerous studies on it and it has no effect just like cracking your finger joints doesn't.

Gaming if we're honest if for people to lazy to play actual football.

[hampo17]

Gaming is for lazy people? Right I spend 2 hours a day in the gym, work a 8 hour shift and if I feel like it will jump on FIFA with a few mates, guess I'm lazy. Daft and completely untrue statement.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Gaming is for lazy people? Right I spend 2 hours a day in the gym, work a 8 hour shift and if I feel like it will jump on FIFA with a few mates, guess I'm lazy. Daft and completely untrue statement.

You're not a 'professional gamer' Hampo so it's different, to get that good at a game you need a lot of spare time and in my opinion and experience it's the lazy sods who do it.

[Guest]

It doesn't cause enhanced acceleration of arthritis, there have been numerous studies on it and it has no effect just like cracking your finger joints doesn't.

Your delusional, if you think it doesn't have an effect on the body. Repetitive movement of the fingers is a physical exertion on the body, just like running around causes knee troubles. Just because you don't sweat, makes no difference. Your harming the body in some way.

The Sun warned today that “kids as young as eight are suffering crippling arthritis-like pain from using consoles and phones.” It said that experts have called for warnings to be shown on gaming boxes. The news reports are based on a study presented at a conference on rheumatism in London this week. The abstract of that conference report states that the researchers surveyed students aged nine to fifteen from two schools in the US and found that longer duration of play on games devices was associated with greater joint pain.

Thankyou

[hampo17]

You read the Sun that was your first error, your second was believing anything that was written in that rag that is only suitable for wiping the turd of a cows hind legs.

[mystiroakey]

My definition

Sports and games are the same thing.

they are competitive.

however some of the competitors are athletes and some are not.

[Hammersmith harrier]

If the Sun quotes it it must be true Liam, i've read numerous in depth studies into arthritis and gaming doesn't have a massive effect on it, the stress on the joints isn't great enough. Comparing it to the knee and running is ludicrous, I have arthritis in my knee caused by a cycling crash and exasperated by running wherein the stress is greater.

[Guest]

i'm not comparing it to running, of course that has far more intensity to it & physically exerting more pressure on the body, thats not the argument. that argument is, does gaming classify as a a sport and the answer is yes, because you have technical skill required & regardless of how little the exertion of finger or hand movment is, there is still a % of exertion, therefore ticking both elements of the sport definition of exertion & skill.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It has the same exertion as working on a computer all day, I doubt they're going to say that's a cause of arthritis.

[Guest]

no, gaming has more intensity, more repetitive movement of the fingers in pressing buttons. typing at work is less intense, you stop, you chat, you get up & make a coffee, gaming at a competitive level is a continued, high intensity, technically skilled process, whereby you strain the body to a much higher % of physical exertion, than at work, which is around 8 hours. It's the continued movement that causes joint pain/arthiritis, not casually working & typing at a slow pace, whereby you determing the speed of typing or play. Competitive gaming, you react to the speed of the competition & that's where the difference & higher exertion rate is.

[Guest]

this is comical

[Hammersmith harrier]

I need to remember next time i'm playing Fifa that i'm in fact playing a sport and it's physically exerting, never have I felt tired from gaming.

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