Half time, discussion.

First topic message reminder :

http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/table.php

So we are now half way through the league season, so I thought it would be a good time to discuss the season so far, who has impressed so far who hasn't who finds themselves behind at half time and will come out in the second half of the season etc etc

So far this season the teams that have impressed me most are Ospreys and Connacht.
Ospreys I expected to be in the top 5 but I didn't expect them to be sitting on top, and being top for most of the year, Scrum V all predicted the top 4 would be Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow and Munster. Ospreys were predicted to not make the top 4, but currently sit top of the league.

Connacht - are in the top 6, 4 points behind Leinster and 4 points above their main rivals for a top 6 place the Scarlets , have a number of top players and are playing really well. Top 6 may have sounded ambitious at start of season but at the minute it looks a realistic target and will prob go down to the wire with Scarlets.

Been a little dissapointed with Leinster and Cardiff Blues,

Leinster - have not had a bad season, and I guess that its because of our high expections of them that 5th seams a little dissapointing, have had injuries and dispite being criticised for not playing free flowing rugby they are joint top try scorers.

Cardiff Blues - some predicted they would be play off contenders, that seamed optimistic, however I think most would have thought they would be higher than 9th, is top 7 place out of reach or a would a good second half of the season get them there?

Anyway whats the half time report for your team say, and how has impressed/not impressed you thus far this season?

Olding and Henshaw could certainly form a great partnership with Sexton at 10, and Schmidt overseeing things. I guess it depends for how long he'll stick with D'Arcy.

I'm not sure as long as people think. If D'arcy is playing well then he's a schmidt favourite for his work off the ball. I don't think Joe is oblivious to his ongoing physical decline or limitations though and so I'm not sure that he is a guaranteed starter or even a shoe in for the RWC squad.

To be fair D'arcy has been in good form but I think he is under pressure from Payne, Henshaw Madigan and Olding - Earls could come into the mix too.

Has the Payne at centre experiment really done enough to push him into international consideration? I must say I always thought he was better suited to 15.

The two players I did think would move to centre (13) are Trimble (in his case move back) and Bowe. Both have the athletic attributes and run good lines. Probably not the best distributors mind you.

Back at Murrayfield a couple of seasons ago I thought Marshall looked the right long term option for Ireland at 12 but he seems to have stalled.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Has the Payne at centre experiment really done enough to push him into international consideration? I must say I always thought he was better suited to 15.

Probably not but I think its still a preferred option given his past form at 13. Payne has been unlucky a bit shifting to 13 at a time that Ulster have been declining and has struggled with injury so probably deserves a few more games before writing him off. Defensively he did well against SA too.

Marshall has stalled a bit, probably unlucky with injuries but also doesn't seem to be developing his weaknesses either and probably under pressure from Olding at Ulster. The other guy is Fitzgerald but for me he doesn't have the skills. Like Marshall he is frequently injured and can't pass left to right.

Bowe the same- he is so effective off the right wing but not the same player going left to right.

Trimble I think could do a job but for me is the best winger in the country now.

funnyExiledScot wrote:  Has the Payne at centre experiment really done enough to push him into international consideration?

No

funnyExiledScot wrote:   I must say I always thought he was better suited to 15.  

He is

Everytime he plays Cave continues to put in superior performances at 13

Henshaw is the future for Ireland at 13

12 should only be a consideration for the World Cup between - D'Arcy, Madigan, Marshall and Olding

geoff999rugby wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:  Has the Payne at centre experiment really done enough to push him into international consideration?

No

funnyExiledScot wrote:   I must say I always thought he was better suited to 15.  

He is

Everytime he plays Cave continues to put in superior performances at 13

Henshaw is the future for Ireland at 13

12 should only be a consideration for the World Cup between - D'Arcy, Madigan, Marshall and Olding

Given your strong views on this what about the Ireland wings? I know there are Trimble fans out there, but I see Zebo (left) and Bowe (right) as the best combination, with Rob Kearney still the best choice at 15.

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Given your strong views on this what about the Ireland wings? I know there are Trimble fans out there, but I see Zebo (left) and Bowe (right) as the best combination, with Rob Kearney still the best choice at 15.

I agree. It's super tight between Bowe and Trimble for the right wing spot. Both are better than Zebo imo but the team is more balanced with Zebo on the left side.

My RWC backline would be : Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Olding, Henshaw, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Reddan, Madigan, Trimble/Payne

Trimble has the ability to nail down the 14 jersey though if he can refind last years form. Olding to oust D'arcy at 12 and Madigan a shoe in for the bench because of his goal kicking.

rodders wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Given your strong views on this what about the Ireland wings? I know there are Trimble fans out there, but I see Zebo (left) and Bowe (right) as the best combination, with Rob Kearney still the best choice at 15.

I agree. It's super tight between Bowe and Trimble for the right wing spot. Both are better than Zebo imo but the team is more balanced with Zebo on the left side.

My RWC backline would be : Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Olding, Henshaw, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Reddan, Madigan, Trimble/Payne

Trimble has the ability to nail down the 14 jersey though if he can refind last years form. Olding to oust D'arcy at 12 and Madigan a shoe in for the bench because of his goal kicking.

I'd agree with all of that, although I think Earls might have a shout for that last bench slot given his ability to play centre, wing and (at a push) fullback.

What about the pack. Here's my pick from a non-Irish perspective (I'm assuming all are fit):

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Moore 4.Henderson 5.POC 6.POM 7.SOB 8.Heaslip

16.Ross 17.Cronin 18.McGrath 19.Toner 20.O'Donnell

To me only 3 wingers are in contention Bowe, Trimble and Zebo

Fitzgerald and Earls have to prove they can get back to their previous levels first before being considered

As to your pack - Moore needs to show more   my guess is Schmidt has fingers crossed that Ross can be held together with sticky tape.
Potentially a fully fit Henderson is a shoo in for Ireland but even if fit is behind Toner at this moment in time
Henry will be in front of O'Donnell if all fit.

Henderson and Henry will make up the bench cover for 4-8 if Schmidt was to pick from a fully fit squad now.
Dominic Ryan has to prove he can play at the same level as previously first and if not fit for the 6N is probably out of contention all together.

Yeah I think Toner is nailed on at 4. He's not the most fashionable player but has been really solid and a great foil for O'Connell. Donnacha Ryan to return but can't see him leapfrogging Toner now.

Still see Ross starting at TH but rested a bit more.

I'd have Chris Henry ahead of O'Donnell - Rhys Ruddock too. I don't see much changing in the pack between now and the RWC.

I'd go:

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Ross 4.Toner 5.POC 6.POM 7.SOB 8.Heaslip

16.Moore 17.Cronin 18.McGrath 19.Henderson 20.Henry/Ruddock

There's Stander and Copeland too - both are great prospects and could challenge for a backrow spot if SOB and/or Henry don't recover in time.

I didn't know Stander qualified to play for Ireland. In which case he would be a great bench option.

I'd pick Toner were I selecting a team for the weekend, but I just think Henderson has massive potential. Once POC retires it could well be Toner and Henderson in tandem.

Not sure when Stander qualifies? guessing it's september....

Can't see POC carrying on after the RWC so you'd imagine Toner, Henderson and Ryan will carry us forward after the great man hangs up the boots.

geoff999rugby wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:  Has the Payne at centre experiment really done enough to push him into international consideration?

No

I would pick him there again, the 12-13 partnership of him and Henshaw at inside centre was very good against South Africa.

rodders wrote:Not sure when Stander qualifies? guessing it's september....

Can't see POC carrying on after the RWC so you'd imagine Toner, Henderson and Ryan will carry us forward after the great man hangs up the boots.

And Dave Foley who has been superb for Munster this year.

I things Os have been the best improved team considering many people felt they would not even be the Top welsh team.

Connacht have improved but are still only a few games from falling off.

The rest are the same. I do think the league is more compeditive but the top teams have failed to deliver in Europe which says everything.

I do think some teams will go on small runs but overall table to stay as is except probably Ulster and Leinster swap, Scarlets and Connacht swap and maybe Blues and Edindburgh.

Brendan wrote:I things Os have been the best improved team considering many people felt they would not even be the Top welsh team.

Connacht have improved but are still only a few games from falling off.

The rest are the same.  I do think the league is more compeditive but the top teams have failed to deliver in Europe which says everything.

I do think some teams will go on small runs but overall table to stay as is except probably Ulster and Leinster swap, Scarlets and Connacht swap and maybe Blues and Edindburgh.

Well Connacht are making a great game of it in Galway against Munster. Having been down 13-0 in the first half, they now lead 24-16 with ten minutes to go and looking full value for their lead.

Let's hope they can sustain it and maybe even get one more try to get a bonus point.

Am I right in saying their only game at home they didn't was the draw with the Blues. Don't think they will be able to turn over the Os and Glasgow but maybe one of them

Brendan wrote:Am I right in saying their only game at home they didn't was the draw with the Blues.  Don't think they will be able to turn over the Os and Glasgow but maybe one of them

Brendan, they play us in the final match of the League season, May 15, 16, 17 there probably will be a hell of a lot running on that game, should be a cracker and the way both teams are playing at the moment, wouldn't bet a lot on the outcome.

Was hoping the standard of officiating would get better as the season progressed. Seemingly, it's got worse. Pro12 unions need to collectively address this now before the fixtures and teams become a whole lot worse.

Its official, Leinster are the weakest province in Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:Its official, Leinster are the weakest province in Ireland.

I'll get my violin!!

fes have you any idea how tough it is to be a Leinster fan. We mightn't win any trophies at all this year.

To be fair if they win tonight they move 4th.

I do think that if Ulster win and they are 8pts off 4th then people will be louder about the coach.

Glad the new European completion has easier qualification for Irish teams.

Under the old rules Ulster, Leinster or Munster could have finished 4th of the Provinces and been out of it.
As it is finishing last, of the four, looks like it will still be good enough.

See the Englsih love us really  

Watching the festive season games, the Derby rivalries, home and away within two weeks is exciting stuff.

So tomorrow the Ospreys face Scarlets down in Llanelli and despite us fighting for the top spot and them hovering around sixth or seventh I am not confident in us going there and winning, in fact I think if we come away with any points we will be doing well.

That is the same way I feel when we go to play in Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow or Munster.

I am starting to feel that way when we got to Connacht, Dragons or Blues too...!

None of us are 100% sure of coming out of Italy with a win

We have confidence against most teams at home, but this is no easy league.

That said, we have been dramatically let down by the lack of quality referees we get compared to other leagues. This needs to change.

Maes,

I totally agree on the refs, the standard so far over holiday period in all 3 derby games has been shocking to say the least.

rodders wrote:Not sure when Stander qualifies? guessing it's september....

Can't see POC carrying on after the RWC so you'd imagine Toner, Henderson and Ryan will carry us forward after the great man hangs up the boots.

Stander qualifies after the World Cup - would be available for 2016 6N

Munster and Glasgow coming back with nothing from their games are absolutely great results for the league, these teams around 6-10th place needs to be more consistent in their performances though.

Italians have been a huge disappointment for me though and i am the 1st to admit they are there to make up the numbers only, it's already their 5th season in the league and they haven't improved whatsoever. They are basically going nowhere.

Good game. Good win. Leinster back in the top 4.

Scarlets going great guns against Ospreys - 19-3 on 45 mins.

The Treviso v Zebre game earlier was farcical. Treviso winning 6-3 up to the 55th minute then they get a man binned. Followed by a second player 4 minutes later.

Zebre eventually manage to score a try and miss the conversion. Treviso then lose a third player to the bin, and score a try with 12/13 men. Zebre can't manage to get over the line until the last minute when they have a man binned . It finishes 17-15 to Treviso.

Top 4 teams getting absolutely nothing from their games, this is grand. Can't remember the last time (if ever) it happened.

That Italian game sounds awful but also entertaining at the same time. They really haven't improved in 5 years apart from maybe fitness levels.

At the other end of the table it's very tight which is good.

One of the few good news from Italy is that Nuvolari the new channel broadcasting rugby there now shows live games involving non Italians teams which should help fans getting more familiar with the opposition and hopefully growing the support down there.

To be Fair Italian teams lost a fair few players recently so that is part of the reason for being poorer this year

Brendan wrote:To be Fair Italian teams lost a fair few players recently so that is part of the reason for being poorer this year

They suffer from very average coaching too. Also it seems they aren't even signing the better players from their domestic league, was discussing this with a Treviso fans the other day on facebook and he reckoned their was better props in the Eccellenza (at least in terms of scrummaging) than what they signed during the summer.

I wanted to wait until after last nights match to give a decent comment to this topic, it is good to see some very gracious comments by people who had written off the Ospreys at the beginning of this season, I must admit I'm totally shocked and pleasantly surprised to see where we are situated in the Guinness, I didn't expect us to be the bottom Welsh Region as some had predicted on another topic, but I didn't expect us to be the top Region either, I thought our conquerors yesterday would have had that honour, and we could quite easily have lost a few of the games we have won this season. Even though we have had many players injured or unavailable through TW and other countries AI matches, some players who we could ill afford to lose played well over the number of matches they should have played, our lack of cover at prop and second row has meant some players have been on the field practically 100% of the time, I think that started to show in the 2nd half last week and definately yesterday, some of these players, AWJ, Arhip, Baldwin, Biggar, Matavesi and Evans badly need a rest, at least Webb had yesterday off due to illness, if some of these don't get the rest they deserve it could spoil all the good work done in the first 12 matches.
Looking to the rest of the season we have 2 very difficult games at the end of but within the 6N period against Glasgow and Leinster and intriguingly the final League fixture is against Connaught away, we really could do with a couple of our props and some other injured players back ASAP. IMO it will be very close for RCC and play off qualification, it could even come down to the final weekends matches.

Wayne I don't think any Ospreys fans are under any illusion that this season will only get tougher from here. But like you I am very proud of our results so far and that being reflected by our league position.

we have had a couple of substandard performances and a few where we have waned in the last quarter.

I agree that we need to rest a good few core players though and that is a worry. Mate edit has been solid as a rock all season but is looking tired. That said with Beck back now and hopefully Bishop back in the mix soon he may get a chance.

I also like Ben Jogn but j think he needs a few more weeks to recover.

VinceWLB wrote:Top 4 teams getting absolutely nothing from their games, this is grand. Can't remember the last time (if ever) it happened.

Absolutely agree, with one caveat. As I watch the Edinburgh/Glasgow match, the commentators were full of the usual hyperbole about 'how good an edinburgh win is for Scottish rugby' and it is or will be if and only if they front up like that in the rest of their league fixtures. I have watched most of the Edinburgh games this season and baring this game and the way the forwards played against Munster first game up, (and a few individuals aside e.g. Ross Ford) the rest have rolled over and allowed their tummies to be tickled. As a Glasgow fan will be pretty fecked off if they now revert to type and this is the only game they turn up for.

There are no easy games, every team has the ability to win a match in this league.

It would be good to see a stronger Edinburgh again.

Stronger Edinburgh, stronger Blues and stronger (as much as possible) Dragons is exactly what the league need now that Connacht are stronger. This means though that it will make things even harder for our poor Italian friends.

wayne wrote:I wanted to wait until after last nights match to give a decent comment to this topic, it is good to see some very gracious comments by people who had written off the Ospreys at the beginning of this season, I must admit I'm totally shocked and pleasantly surprised to see where we are situated in the Guinness,

They deserve to be there. Playing good rugby and not being afraid of anyone

maestegmafia wrote:Wayne I don't think any Ospreys fans are under any illusion that this season will only get tougher from here. But like you I am very proud of our results so far and that being reflected by our league position.

we have had a couple of substandard performances and a few where we have waned in the last quarter.

I agree that we need to rest a good few core players though and that is a worry. Mate edit has been solid as a rock all season but is looking tired. That said with Beck back now and hopefully Bishop back in the mix soon he may get a chance.

I also like Ben Jogn but j think he needs a few more weeks to recover.

Ospreys fans should be proud - their side has been very consistent, defensively is well organised, they don't make many mistakes and have had to absorb some tough injuries (e.g Hassler). As a Glasgow fan, the two sides I am worried about are Ospreys and Leinster, but Ospreys most of all.

I suppose you could say that Spreys had a reasonable draw for the first half of the season, but they still had to win the bloody games, which they have done well.