Ireland V France

by BODisGOD Sun 08 Feb 2015, 10:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND v FRANCE
14 February 2015
KO: 17:00
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Nigel Owens (WRU)
AR2: Stuart Berry (SARU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

IRELAND

15 Rob Kearney
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Jared Payne
12 Robbie Henshaw
11 Simon Zebo
10 Johnny Sexton
9 Conor Murray

1 Jack McGrath
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Devin Toner
5 Paul O'Connell (c)
6 Peter O'Mahony
7 Sean O'Brien
8 Jamie Heaslip

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Iain Henderson, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Isaac Boss, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Felix Jones

FRANCE

15 Scott Spedding
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Teddy Thomas
10 Camille Lopez
9 Rory Kockott

1 Eddy Ben Arous
2 Guilhem Guirado
3 Rabah Slimani
4 Pascal Papé
5 Yoann Maestri
6 Thierry Dusautoir (c)
7 Bernard Le Roux
8 Damien Chouly

16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Uini Atonio, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Romain Taofifenua, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Rémi Lamerat

*****
This is an interesting battle, and very much a case of brains v brawn.
French flair is long gone, they now rely on the likes of Bastareaud and their pack of overweight lumps to get over the line.
Ireland are very much a team of robots, Joe gives instructions on how to dismantle a team like IKEA gives instructions on how to make a cupboard. With the right personnel in Sexton, SOB and the likes of Heaslip at the helm, they should be able to devour the French fatties like they're the last square of a Kinder Bueno.
All logic points to an Irish victory, but as so often happens the French defy logic.
Emo

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:15 pm

Surely Fitz will come into the backline. We need his creativity badly.

by clivemcl Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:16 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:And the Oscar goes too?

You're an idiot, TightHEAD.

No need for that, he influenced the ref on a 50/50 call, it was like watching Chelsea!

It wasn't a 50/50 call. The rise of the knee was not a continuation of his stride. Any fool can see it was intentional. And as such it was rightly punished. Do you agree with punishing lawbreakers tightHEAD????

He was hard done by, you have no proof that he intended to knee him and I doubt you are an expert in running strides!

Expert? Do you not know how to walk/run? Basically one foot after the other. At a constant speed, the strides will remain fairly rhytmic. Keeping a knee up longer than th previous stride would normally result in falling over over. Unless of course you have just met a ruck, and your knee it's target...

Did you guys even watch the replay? I'm glad you guys aren't ref's or TMOs!

by Nachos Jones Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:17 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Surely Fitz will come into the backline. We need his creativity badly.

At 12 with Henshaw at 13? I hope so because Payne really does not look a 13 to me.

by TightHEAD Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:17 pm

whocares wrote:I think Pape is just daft, does that kind of thing regularly as some forwards tend to. Not an excuse in any way.

So you think it was the players reputation that earned him the card, had for example a squeaky clean player had the misfortune to knee a player in the back as they were entering a ruck/maul they would have gotten away with it?

by FecklessRogue Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:18 pm

Commiseration whocares. For what it's worth I think the French could be a great team with a better coach. They're more than just big. They showed some skills in the end. Their just don't have good direction from the top. I'm hoping St. Andre stays in place for the RWC for our sake.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:21 pm

When you see the affect their front row had it makes you wonder why he didn't start them. They turned the game very much in their favour when they came on.

by FecklessRogue Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Surely Fitz will come into the backline. We need his creativity badly.

At 12 with Henshaw at 13? I hope so because Payne really does not look a 13 to me.

Agreed. I don't think Kearney or Payne are adding anything. Kearney will keep his place because he's a safe choice, with ball in hand all he does is run directly into an opposition player and get turned over. Fitzgerald and Earls need to be brought in. They're both experienced, both very good and both fit now as far as I know.

by TightHEAD Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm

clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:And the Oscar goes too?

You're an idiot, TightHEAD.

No need for that, he influenced the ref on a 50/50 call, it was like watching Chelsea!

It wasn't a 50/50 call. The rise of the knee was not a continuation of his stride. Any fool can see it was intentional. And as such it was rightly punished. Do you agree with punishing lawbreakers tightHEAD????

He was hard done by, you have no proof that he intended to knee him and I doubt you are an expert in running strides!

Expert? Do you not know how to walk/run? Basically one foot after the other. At a constant speed, the strides will remain fairly rhytmic. Keeping a knee up longer than th previous stride would normally result in falling over over. Unless of course you have just met a ruck, and your knee it's target...

Did you guys even watch the replay? I'm glad you guys aren't ref's or TMOs!

So you are an expert on running strides?

For me it was still a 50/50 and he was hard done by, but France were never going to win any way so no harm done. When did rugby become so namby pamby?

by clivemcl Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:35 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:And the Oscar goes too?

You're an idiot, TightHEAD.

No need for that, he influenced the ref on a 50/50 call, it was like watching Chelsea!

It wasn't a 50/50 call. The rise of the knee was not a continuation of his stride. Any fool can see it was intentional. And as such it was rightly punished. Do you agree with punishing lawbreakers tightHEAD????

He was hard done by, you have no proof that he intended to knee him and I doubt you are an expert in running strides!

Expert? Do you not know how to walk/run? Basically one foot after the other. At a constant speed, the strides will remain fairly rhytmic. Keeping a knee up longer than th previous stride would normally result in falling over over. Unless of course you have just met a ruck, and your knee it's target...

Did you guys even watch the replay? I'm glad you guys aren't ref's or TMOs!

So you are an expert on running strides?

For me it was still a 50/50 and he was hard done by, but France were never going to win any way so no harm done. When did rugby become so namby pamby?

I guess one day they decided 'Hey, let's not allow players to intentionally inflict violence'. The big sissies!

by TightHEAD Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:40 pm

In your opinion he inflected violence, to myself and others here as I'm not the only one who thinks he was hard done by,

another day, another game, another Ref oh and another player the game would have just continued as normal!

by whocares Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:43 pm

FecklessRogue wrote:Commiseration whocares. For what it's worth I think the French could be a great team with a better coach. They're more than just big. They showed some skills in the end. Their just don't have good direction from the top. I'm hoping St. Andre stays in place for the RWC for our sake.

Dunno really. Our forwards did some good things (specially the impact props who came in) but our backs were so clumsy at times (that said we played without one wing and fb most of the time). I think these players deserve to be coached by Jake White ! Smile

by TightHEAD Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:45 pm

Back to the game.

Once again the beeb pundits were talking about how they want to see the French run the ball and play with French flair that they all know they can, ummm I haven't seen them do it for many years surely it's just a myth that these guys can play the French way?

by John Cregan Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:48 pm

The way Basteurad plays the game epitomises everything that is wrong with the game at present. When you tackle you should at least attempt to bend your back?? I don't get it. Only a matter of time before a player is seriously injured or worse...................

by Nachos Jones Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:53 pm

John Cregan wrote:The way Basteurad plays the game epitomises everything that is wrong with the game at present. When you tackle you should at least attempt to bend your back?? I don't get it. Only a matter of time before a player is seriously injured or worse...................

I was actually thinking the same. Both head clashes with Sexton looked accidental but there also seems to be some intent on his behalf to make 'head to head' contact. I may be wrong, probably am, but just didn't feel that either head clash was accidental.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:54 pm

whocares wrote:
FecklessRogue wrote:Commiseration whocares. For what it's worth I think the French could be a great team with a better coach. They're more than just big. They showed some skills in the end. Their just don't have good direction from the top. I'm hoping St. Andre stays in place for the RWC for our sake.

Dunno really. Our forwards did some good things (specially the impact props who came in) but our backs were so clumsy at times (that said we played without one wing and fb most of the time). I think these players deserve to be coached by Jake White !

whocares,

As I asked earlier why aren't those guys starting. Even if the coach thinks they can't last the 80 surely they are better off starting and maybe getting you a lead rather than having to come on and change game around or chase game etc.

by FecklessRogue Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:54 pm

Jake White? I don't know if you're serious or not. Ireland have improved out of sight with a Kiwi coach at the helm. I wonder what one of the top southern hemisphere coaches could get out of this French team. Would the French fans and media be ok with a non-French head coach from the Anglophone world?

by John Cregan Sat 14 Feb 2015, 7:55 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
John Cregan wrote:The way Basteurad plays the game epitomises everything that is wrong with the game at present. When you tackle you should at least attempt to bend your back?? I don't get it. Only a matter of time before a player is seriously injured or worse...................

I was actually thinking the same. Both head clashes with Sexton looked accidental but there also seems to be some intent on his behalf to make 'head to head' contact. I may be wrong, probably am, but just didn't feel that either head clash was accidental.

Have to agree. Because of his freakish strength and size, he is always going to inflict more damage than be on the receiving end..............

by majesticimperialman Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:08 pm

After watching both games to day, bith England and Ireland will need to play better next time out....This game (Ireland v England) could even be called winner takes all. Neither England or Ireland looked any where near their best today.

England may have put a big score on Italy today, but one feels at times that Italy was unlucky not to score more points than they did.

Although Ireland won today, France could quite easy have won if the front row and Para that finished the game had started instead.

So well done Ireland for the win.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:09 pm

I don't think any of the sides have hit their stride fully yet we haven't seen a good solid 80 from any of them yet and unfortunately from a Welsh POV I am not expecting to see one tomorrow either.

by FecklessRogue Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:10 pm

Sexton didn't look concussed which is a relief. Just cut. After all the talk he dealt very well with anything coming down his channel and controlled the game well. Looks to me like he was match fit after all. Maybe not fully match sharp yet going on that pass into Payne's face. Heaslip looked hurt though. Hope he is ok for the next match.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:17 pm

I don't think there was anything intentional in the Basteraud/Sexton incident and Sexton did look good, bit rusty as you say Feck but he won't take long getting that back.

What's his dealt with Racing will he be going back there next weekend to play?

by Taylorman Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:20 pm

Sexton showed a distinct lack of vision when pushing that short ball into traffic when he should have seen the larger threat wider out to the left. 2 unmarked players, perfectly positioned, deep enough for the wide pass.

Its that sort of vision that guys like Cruden, the earlier Carter etc are ahead of Sexton in the 10 space. Sure he kicked the goals an ran the game well, but theres still room for improvement in the options available.

by theslosty Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:25 pm

Sexton was untouchable in the first half but wasn't all there in the second. For me Schmidt should have kept madigan on the field, just like the England game last year.

For all the doubts we had about his fitness Sean O'Brien had a strong game. Peter O'Mahony however was my own man of the match.

by FecklessRogue Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:26 pm

Yes bedford, as far as I know. Another game could do him good though in this case.

It was definitely butchered Taylorman, and it would have put the game to bed. As you say fling it wide and it's a certain try but I don't think he even looked. Let's be kind to him and put it down to rustiness.

by theslosty Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:28 pm

I wouldn't say Sexton lacks vision at all. I'd argue it's his greatest asset. He had only just returned to the field before the Payne chance, he was clearly a bit shaken by the clash of heads and shouldn't have been brought back on.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:29 pm

I thought Schmidt was a bit late on bringing on Moore and Hendo especially. I really don't know why Jones and Boss are on the bench as they offer nothing.

I don't see any point in calling for changes though as Schmidt can be quite stubborn when it comes to team selections.

by Lowlandbrit Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:33 pm

FecklessRogue wrote:Commiseration whocares. For what it's worth I think the French could be a great team with a better coach. They're more than just big. They showed some skills in the end. Their just don't have good direction from the top. I'm hoping St. Andre stays in place for the RWC for our sake.

France are in bad need of someone that can resist the temptation to give every ball to their bruising centres.

by theslosty Sat 14 Feb 2015, 8:59 pm

There's no hiding that Ireland have lacked a cutting edge lately. I look at Zebo in particular. Here is a player with great pace and finishing ability and is given no chances to do any real damage.

In the long term Henshaw has to start at 13 but the lack of a competent, experienced 12 means we have to continue with the somewhat unconvincing Payne experiment. Ian Madigan could certainly add a spark to our attack but is too small to play inside centre at Test level. Having said that, Payne isn't the most physical unit around either.

Another 2 players I would highlight are Conor Murray and Rob Kearney. Don't get me wrong, they are the best in their respective positions but neither are the most creative. I think a Reddan or Marmion would actually suit Ireland's attack better but I accept both are too error-prone.

It looks like we will continue with this tactical kicking focused gameplan until the RWC. With Sexton at the helm it is a successful, consistent tactic but at the moment I don't see Ireland going any further than the semi finals. I would have loved Schmidt to bring in his Leinster style of play but obviously he doesn't consider it viable at Test level. In fairness he may be right, space is at such a premium and only NZ and Australia seem to have the ability to play in the wide channels these days.

by TJ Sat 14 Feb 2015, 9:20 pm

Guys - don't feed the trolls. the yellow was well deserved - anyone who understands rugby knows that but the Irish guy did milk it

by Guest Sat 14 Feb 2015, 9:23 pm

I don't believe he milked it at all. He was still in a lot of pain after the match.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 14 Feb 2015, 9:27 pm

TJ wrote:Guys - don't feed the trolls. the yellow was well deserved - anyone who understands rugby knows that but the Irish guy did milk it

TJ,

Not a troll never have and have also played rugby for over 40 yrs and I still not convinced it was intentional, but as I said earlier if the ref thought it was dangerous then it should have been red not yellow.

by majesticimperialman Sat 14 Feb 2015, 9:51 pm

I do hope Heaslip will be all right.

I do think it was an accident rather than deliberate.

I do think that if Heaslip is ruled out of the England game, then it will be a big loss for Ireland IMO.

by Submachine Sat 14 Feb 2015, 10:05 pm

It wasn't an accident in the same way heaslips knee to mccaws head wasn't. When you join the maul with the intent to defend it, you connect with your shoulder first, low down and your legs stretched behind to optimise your drive. He came upright tried to disguise the knee to the back a a normal stride but was obviously not the case given the scenario.

by TJ Sat 14 Feb 2015, 10:05 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
TJ wrote:Guys - don't feed the trolls. the yellow was well deserved - anyone who understands rugby knows that but the Irish guy did milk it

TJ,

Not a troll never have and have also played rugby for over 40 yrs and I still not convinced it was intentional, but as I said earlier if the ref thought it was dangerous then it should have been red not yellow.

Not aimed at you

by Golden Sat 14 Feb 2015, 10:50 pm

Heaslip had to go off after that knee so dont know how he milked it. Whens the last time Heaslip hasnt completed a game? hes not one to be subbed off if he can still play on. Was pretty obvious he was in some pain.

by RDSguru Sat 14 Feb 2015, 11:30 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:This game (Ireland v England) could even be called winner takes all. Neither England or Ireland looked any where near their best today.

by RDSguru Sat 14 Feb 2015, 11:34 pm

clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:And the Oscar goes too?

You're an idiot, TightHEAD.

No need for that, he influenced the ref on a 50/50 call, it was like watching Chelsea!

It wasn't a 50/50 call. The rise of the knee was not a continuation of his stride. Any fool can see it was intentional. And as such it was rightly punished. Do you agree with punishing lawbreakers tightHEAD????

He was hard done by, you have no proof that he intended to knee him and I doubt you are an expert in running strides!

Expert? Do you not know how to walk/run? Basically one foot after the other. At a constant speed, the strides will remain fairly rhytmic. Keeping a knee up longer than th previous stride would normally result in falling over over. Unless of course you have just met a ruck, and your knee it's target...

Did you guys even watch the replay? I'm glad you guys aren't ref's or TMOs!

So you are an expert on running strides?

For me it was still a 50/50 and he was hard done by, but France were never going to win any way so no harm done. When did rugby become so namby pamby?

I guess one day they decided 'Hey, let's not allow players to intentionally inflict violence'. The big sissies!

Since when did Intent have any impact on whether foul/dangerous play required a sanction?

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 14 Feb 2015, 11:59 pm

Great win but not a great game. The lack of creativity in the midfield is genuinely worrying. The Payne experiment has to stop after the 6 nations is finished and the real 12s are available for selection.

I feel for the likes of Zebo who is literally getting nothing to work with.

by FecklessRogue Sun 15 Feb 2015, 1:24 am

The return of O'Brien and Healy will mean more tackles broken and more go forward ball which should help the blunt attack. But we are missing the creativity of O'Drisccoll. Even as a decrepit old man he vision and offloading gave us an extra spark in attack.

I don't want to be to harsh on Payne because he hasn't actually let us down, the two centers have been heroic in defence. Maybe given time they'd get better in attack but there's just no sign of creativity there.

by whocares Sun 15 Feb 2015, 1:52 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Great win but not a great game. The lack of creativity in the midfield is genuinely worrying. The Payne experiment has to stop after the 6 nations is finished and the real 12s are available for selection.

I feel for the likes of Zebo who is literally getting nothing to work with.

Zebo did try hard at least. Always looking for work in the midfield while Tommy Bowe was mainly sitting on his wing.
And yes FecklessRogue I was joking when I mentionned Jake White (for the record the FFR will never ever chose a foreign coach). But he could get some good things from this bunch of bruisers. france played better when Fofana went to the wing and Lamerat came in at centre. This goes to show that we cannot have both Bastareaud and Fofana starting alongside. Bastareaud needs an organiser alongside him (Giteau,mermoz) and Fofana someone who plays fast and has good hands (rougeries, king, Davies etc)
bedfordwelsh, Regarding the impact props they are only effective against tired defense and props. Debaty is 3rd choice at Clermont and not a great scrummager but destructive in the loose. Atonio also can link so is interesting for someone of his size.

by majesticimperialman Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:52 am

Just watched the game again and cannot understand why Paul Oconnell on 78 minutes did not get a yellow card? for lying on the wrong side.

by Nachos Jones Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:15 am

Sadly I don't believe that Payne will ever become a good international 13 so I would like to see a proper 12 come in and have Henshaw at 13. Kearney has not looked as good as we all know he can be so I would drop him, put either Payne or Zebo at 15 and bring Earles on to the bench as cover for centres and wing.

SOB played well and put in a great defensive effort which surprised me because I thought that he would be lacking match fitness. That said, Ireland did miss TOD's movement around the park but if fit, I would still have SOB over TOD.

On the Heaslip incident, I still don't believe that it was intentional but in no way did Heaslip milk it as it was a nasty collision and lead to him being replaced not long after and he was in pain after the match as well. I do not believe that it warranted a yellow card and that the game should have just gone ahead but can understand the ruling as dangerous play is dangerous play whether intentional or not.

Basterauds second head clash with Sexton actually looked more intentional than what first appeared, I know it sounds stupid to think that someone would intentionally lead with their head but it did seem so to me and considering the fact that Sexton was controlling the game and his returning from the concussion protocols, its not beyond the realms of impossibility.

POM was again simply outstanding and in my opinion was easily the MoTM.

by toml Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:23 am

11-Earls
12-Olding
13-Fitzgerald
14-Trimble
15-Jones

Back-up backline using players not starting yesterday. It looks a lot more creative on paper. Fragile though

by Nachos Jones Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:29 am

This backline is pretty much what I would like to see right now.

09 - Murray
10 - Sexton
11 - Earls/Zebo
12 - Olding
13 - Henshaw
14 - Bowe
15 - Zebo/Payne

Solid in defence and very attacking intent.

by rumpelstiltskindoh Sun 15 Feb 2015, 9:45 am

Submachine wrote:It wasn't an accident in the same way heaslips knee to mccaws head wasn't. When you join the maul with the intent to defend it, you connect with your shoulder first, low down and your legs stretched behind to optimise your drive. He came upright tried to disguise the knee to the back a a normal stride but was obviously not the case given the scenario.

This is exactly correct. Pape wasn't necessarily entering with the thought, "I am going to knee that number 8 in the kidneys now". Instead, he saw a maul with a big slab of green shirt on his side and semi-instinctively went in with a mindset to teach someone a lesson, rather than to drive the maul forward/back. It's the sort of thing that happens a lot, but not as much as in the old days. Now I am an old school Pooler fan, so I hated to see Heaslip immediately looking to the ref, but the yellow was deserved.

Otherwise, Sexton was easily the best 10 we have seen in the tournament so far. Isn't Parra a better place kicker than Lopez?

by Exiled Gael Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:15 am

Hi fellows Irish fans. I've followed this site for a long time but never posted but thought I would. Bit of background, I'm a big Leinster fan but working as a backs coach and video analyst at a well known English grammar school. Yes thats right, video analyst at a school. It wasn't like that in my day!

Anyway, I have to say that I am extremely puzzled by those criticising Payne after yesterday. To my eyes it appears that his too main problems are that a) he's not Irish and b) he isn't BOD. Anyone who actually watched (or rewatches) the match with a critical eye will find it hard to criticise him and Henshaw. The second half also demonstrates why the Irish coaching panel deserves a huge amount of credit.

After 40 mins it appeared clear that the Irish gameplan was based on a false assumption- run the French around and they will get tired. The French dominated the breakdown in the first half. The problem for Ireland was that SOB and POM were, more often than not, in the backs waiting to carry rather than trying to secure Irish ball. The gameplan had to change and it was clear the whole pack had to hit the breakdown in the second half. Credit to the coaching panel for changing this part of their plan. But there was a problem, and it is absolutely clear if you watch the match again. France then had the weight of numbers constantly in the second half round the fringes and in the midfield. As a result of the breakdown battle, the quality of ball Murray had to work with was relatively poor and slow. The ball to the midfield was static to say the least. Henshaw and Payne did an outstanding job in the circumstances to carry the ball and get over the gain line so many times. Payne carried the ball for the second most yards gained in the side, second to Kearney, who as fullback, you would expect to carry the most given he was returning kicked French ball in open field. Also Payne made the third most tackles in the game, 13 made and one missed. Henshaw made the most with 16 made and three missed. What exactly in such circumstances did Payne do in the match that is earning so much wrath? What would Fitzgerald have done better, or Earls for that matter? BOD in his prime would have struggled. It seems to me that people have already made their minds up about Payne before he put on a green shirt and seem unable to view his performance dispassionately. I have seen him for Ulster at 13 and have been unimpressed. Watching Leinster every week I would have picked Fitzgerald before the tournament. Yesterday, under the circumstances, he and Henshaw were excellent. If the pack could have secured Irish ball then the opportunity to create mismatches all over the park was there. I think England may exploit this to good effect and I am genuinely concerned about the English pack, and Robshaw in particular. But it is telling against France that Ireland were so worried about losing the ball at the breakdown and being outnumbered out wide and that neither wing seemed to join the attacking line with any degree of regularity. How either centre could be blamed for a lack of quick quality ball to either winger is beyond me.

While POM worked hard, I'm not sure you could say he was outstanding. Quiet in the first half, he put in a real shift for sure in the second half. But SOB hit almost as many rucks yet made double the amount of tackles. His counter rucking was also more disruptive. Not to say POM didn't have a good match, but SOB was more effective. He was my MOTM. Also, POM's decision to kick the ball away was poor. Not to say the kick itself wasn't bad (for a forward, with the outside of the boot, pretty damn impressive!), but there was an overlap and a real chance to create some space.

Finally, I can't tell you how impressed I am with Henderson in his cameos so far. While Toner is unrecognisable from where he was 3-4 seasons ago and worked incredibly hard yesterday (second highest tackle count, none missed), it just seems that Henderson is a better ball carrier and a better counter rucker. Extremely harsh on Toner, but I would like to see Henderson start against England or at least get a good 30 minutes on the park.

I still don't see why Jones and Boss are on the bench. While I'm a huge Kearney fan there is a clear conversation to be had about having either Jones or Payne started at fullback. I don't think we are quite at that point just yet though.

by toml Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:23 am

Exiled Gael wrote:Hi fellows Irish fans. I've followed this site for a long time but never posted but thought I would. Bit of background, I'm a big Leinster fan but working as a backs coach and video analyst at a well known English grammar school. Yes thats right, video analyst at a school. It wasn't like that in my day!

Anyway, I have to say that I am extremely puzzled by those criticising Payne after yesterday. To my eyes it appears that his too main problems are that a) he's not Irish and b) he isn't BOD. Anyone who actually watched (or rewatches) the match with a critical eye will find it hard to criticise him and Henshaw. The second half also demonstrates why the Irish coaching panel deserves a huge amount of credit.

After 40 mins it appeared clear that the Irish gameplan was based on a false assumption- run the French around and they will get tired. The French dominated the breakdown in the first half. The problem for Ireland was that SOB and POM were, more often than not, in the backs waiting to carry rather than trying to secure Irish ball. The gameplan had to change and it was clear the whole pack had to hit the breakdown in the second half. Credit to the coaching panel for changing this part of their plan. But there was a problem, and it is absolutely clear if you watch the match again. France then had the weight of numbers constantly in the second half round the fringes and in the midfield. As a result of the breakdown battle, the quality of ball Murray had to work with was relatively poor and slow. The ball to the midfield was static to say the least. Henshaw and Payne did an outstanding job in the circumstances to carry the ball and get over the gain line so many times. Payne carried the ball for the second most yards gained in the side, second to Kearney, who as fullback, you would expect to carry the most given he was returning kicked French ball in open field. Also Payne made the third most tackles in the game, 13 made and one missed. Henshaw made the most with 16 made and three missed. What exactly in such circumstances did Payne do in the match that is earning so much wrath? What would Fitzgerald have done better, or Earls for that matter? BOD in his prime would have struggled. It seems to me that people have already made their minds up about Payne before he put on a green shirt and seem unable to view his performance dispassionately. I have seen him for Ulster at 13 and have been unimpressed. Watching Leinster every week I would have picked Fitzgerald before the tournament. Yesterday, under the circumstances, he and Henshaw were excellent. If the pack could have secured Irish ball then the opportunity to create mismatches all over the park was there. I think England may exploit this to good effect and I am genuinely concerned about the English pack, and Robshaw in particular. But it is telling against France that Ireland were so worried about losing the ball at the breakdown and being outnumbered out wide and that neither wing seemed to join the attacking line with any degree of regularity. How either centre could be blamed for a lack of quick quality ball to either winger is beyond me.

While POM worked hard, I'm not sure you could say he was outstanding. Quiet in the first half, he put in a real shift for sure in the second half. But SOB hit almost as many rucks yet made double the amount of tackles. His counter rucking was also more disruptive. Not to say POM didn't have a good match, but SOB was more effective. He was my MOTM. Also, POM's decision to kick the ball away was poor. Not to say the kick itself wasn't bad (for a forward, with the outside of the boot, pretty damn impressive!), but there was an overlap and a real chance to create some space.

Finally, I can't tell you how impressed I am with Henderson in his cameos so far. While Toner is unrecognisable from where he was 3-4 seasons ago and worked incredibly hard yesterday (second highest tackle count, none missed), it just seems that Henderson is a better ball carrier and a better counter rucker. Extremely harsh on Toner, but I would like to see Henderson start against England or at least get a good 30 minutes on the park.

I still don't see why Jones and Boss are on the bench. While I'm a huge Kearney fan there is a clear conversation to be had about having either Jones or Payne started at fullback. I don't think we are quite at that point just yet though.

Thats some analysis gael! Welcome

I was screaming for us to use the bench around 55 mis. To get Ross who was fading off and to get henderson on. I think Hendy should have came on for SOB and move POM to 7... but they had already lost Heaslip. SOB did well to last the 72 he played

by The Great Aukster Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:59 am

Welcome Gael - I agree with most of that.

Henderson is himself only returning from injury and couldn't come on earlier as Joe must have wondered about both SOB and Heaslip lasting

by **Notch** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:07 am

Yeah, I don't get the criticism of Payne either. We haven't gotten ourselves onto the front foot with any quick ball at any time this tournament. We have not created the chance to attack. It's not a lack of creativity for me, it's a lack of forward momentum and a lack of gainline success. Once we start getting across the gainline, the backs will have more space to work in.

I haven't been keen on Payne at 13 for Ulster, but there hasn't been anything you could fault the centres on in their three games together. They have been working exclusively off slow ball.

by Nachos Jones Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:17 am

I really don't see many people, myself included, as criticising Paynes performance yesterday. More that I feel he would be better utilised at 15 as that is where he appears to be more at home.

Not sure that there is anything wrong with that opinion?

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