6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February

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SCOTLAND v ITALY
Saturday 28 February 2015
KO 14:30 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 Sean Lamont
10 Peter Horne
09 Greig Laidlaw (capt)

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Euan Murray
04 Tim Swinson
05 Jonny Gray
06 Rob Harley
07 Blair Cowan
08 Johnnie Beattie

16 Fraser Brown
17 Ryan Grant
18 Geoff Cross
19 Ben Toolis
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Greig Tonks
23 Matt Scott

2. ITALY

15 Luke McLean
14 Michele Visentin
13 Luca Morisi
12 Enrico Bacchin
11 Giovambattista Venditti
10 Kelly Haimona
09 Edoardo Gori

01 Matias Aguero
02 Leonardo Ghiraldini
03 Dario Chistolini
04 George Fabio Biagi
05 Joshua Furno
06 Francesco Minto
07 Simone Favaro
08 Sergio Parisse (capt)

16 Andrea Manici
17 Alberto De Marchi
18 Lorenzo Cittadini
19 Marco Fuser
20 Samuela Vunisa
21 Guglielmo Palazzani
22 Tommaso Allan
23 Giulio Bisegni.

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

15/02/15 - Scotland 23 - 26 Wales

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

2. ITALY

14/02/15 - England 47 - 17 Italy

07/02/15 - Italy 3 - 26 Ireland

22/11/14 - Italy 6–22 South Africa

14/11/14 - Italy 18–20 Argentina

C. Head to Head:

21 Played 21

14 Wins 7

7 Losses 14

0 Draws 0

40 Tries 28

30 Conversions 23

58 Penalties 50

5 Drop Goals 6

475 Points 365

Didn't want to create a new thread especially for this but was just thinking about what Andy Robinson said near when he resigned (I think), that our pack should put on a bit of weight.

Here are the weights of our back 3:

Harley: 109kg
Cowan: 104kg
Beattie: 106kg
Stroker: 107kg
Denton: 114kg

And in comparison:

Robshaw: 110kg
O'Brien: 108kg
Heaslip: 109kg
Le Roux: 116
Parisse: 112
Chouly: 111
Haskell: 114
Lydiate: 112
------
White (jason): 108
Simon Taylor: 112
Strauss (josh): 114

Any thoughts?

Jason White being lighter than Simon Taylor sounds wrong!!

I'm not overly concerned to be honest. The All Blacks are proof that you don't need monsters in the back row provided they are physical, aggressive and good technical footballers. Sure, if you've got a unit who can also play a bit then that's ideal (e.g. Vermeulen), but I don't get worried but 2-3kgs difference.

Nematode wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:And to add.....

Interesting point that someone made on the 'Scottish Rugby Change' Facebook page last night, in that two out of the three people on the review committee were from nations that Scotland had yet to play. Now I'm not sure how true that is, but it wouldn't be completely out of order concluding that this may have been a small factor influencing the decision.

Absolute non-starter.

Put yourselves in an official's shoes. Are you really going to risk your reputation - and career prospects - by giving a biased punishment just so that one player (that can make quite a few serious mistakes) from a position 5/6 team in the 6N doesn't play?    Come on!

Also Russell's ban only covers the Italy match so your point doesn't really hold up. The officials were from France, England and Ireland. The English and Irish officials, if your claim is true..., would surely have WANTED Russell to play against Italy so that there was a chance he got injured and wouldn't face England or Ireland

It was the wrong call, yes, but can we just accept it instead of making up utter garbage.

Think they managed to feic that up themselves.

In response to Nematode's query about weight. It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

Well it might not mean anything, but Visser and Fife are playing for Edinburgh this weekend, as is Ben Toolis.

The might have been told they are playing for the Scotland shirt, but similarly Maitland and Seymour might be back and they might be deemed surplus to requirements.

I'd much prefer Toolis over Swinson on the bench though....

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

I've checked and:

Dowlais means = Handsome, athlectic, charming, witty and impressive

Lord = Not very

tigertattie wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

I've checked and:

Dowlais means = Handsome, athlectic, charming, witty and impressive

Lord = Not very

Anyway, I have fixed it for you now.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

Where can you play? You're a natural back end of a Gatball pantomime horse, Lord. One of those animals that pretends to have a ball but don't.

LordDowlais wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

I've checked and:

Dowlais means = Handsome, athlectic, charming, witty and impressive

Lord = Not very

Anyway, I have fixed it for you now.

Like Omid Djalili's opening joke when he first started doing stand-up.

My parents named me Omid Djalili. In Persian, "Omid" means 'hope'.

Unfortunately, in Persian "Djalili" means 'less'

The fact that Edinburgh have their replacement SH as "AN Other" must mean that SHC is still being looked at regarding the concussion tests.

I would have thought though we might have seen Denton on the bench in place of Blake.

No Matt Scott is quite odd. He won't be starting, so I'd have thought he'd have been given game time like Visser and Fife.

Matt Scott is a strange one, but he's maybe carrying a niggle, or Dunbar or Bennett are. There is a big drop off in quality after that so he's maybe not wanting to risk it.

Scott definitely needs more gametime though.

Agreed - I'd have given Scott 80 minutes personally but as you say, any injury and Scotland are looking probably at Lamont at centre if either Dunbar or Bennett drop out.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:In response to Nematode's query about weight.  It's not so much weight...... it's what the weight consists of.

Weight consists of natural bone density (which can owe a lot to genetics - you either got it or you don't) - and then a mixture of fat and muscle.  
Some players carry a good bit of their weight in the stomachs as pure fat - and that can be helpful in some areas of the game; and other players can carry a lot of it in the muscles of their chest, shoulder, neck and biceps.  Others again can have a lot of it in their thighs (George North).  Some players carry their weight heavily (slowish and cumbersome) others are explosive and dynamic with theirs.
But players have different skills/abilities attached to their particular weight so it can never be simply a solution that says if two players are a perfect weight match - let's say 114kg - then they will achieve parity on the field and cancel each other out.  

I don't happen like that.

I'm fat, with most of my fat being on my belly, but I am also explosive and dynamic in all walks of life, where can I play ? In fact, if I add very handsome to the first sentence I would have described myself perfectly.

It's not fat, I much prefer the term relaxed muscle. Being a former prop myself I have a lot of it. So did Alan Jacobsen

Chunk's wasn't relaxed! It was on a permanent state of high alert!

God, he was an entertaining player. Already we can say there'll hardly ever be any more like him - now that rugby has become such a roboticised profession of strict diet and body structure conformity

RDW_Scotland wrote:Matt Scott is a strange one, but he's maybe carrying a niggle, or Dunbar or Bennett are.  There is a big drop off in quality after that so he's maybe not wanting to risk it.

Scott definitely needs more gametime though.

Scott at 10 if Russell is still grounded? Sure he can't kick to save his life but we would get to run everything. Would make it a great game.

SecretFly wrote:
God, he was an entertaining player.  Already we can say there'll hardly ever be any more like him - now that rugby has become such a roboticised profession of strict diet and body structure conformity

Ahem...

Ahhhhhh...yeah, there are still a few of the old brigade hanging in there - an honourable mention to our own Ross.

But they ain't got the humour qualities of mad-dog Alan. He was a bit of a one off.

Chunk in all his glory...

A wonderful sight. Nothing had the heart in the mouth quite like Chunk standing at first receiver - one hand ready to catch the ball, the other hitching up his shorts.

I remember my brother telling me about the time he was speaking to the then Edinburgh nutritionist in a pub (friend of a friend I think) and he was saying how chunk was a bit of a genetic freak and was able to eat around 2000 more calories than the average professional rugby player, yet didn't put any extra weight on.

Basically they had to keep feeding the beast!

To be fair, Chuck had a very decent workrate for a man with such a sinking centre of gravity. Loved getting his hands on the ball (certainly more than us fans wanted him to) and hit rucks like a cannon ball (always legally of course).

Was always brilliant to see him find himself in open space with the ball in hand, not overly sure what to do but run!

I can't remember whether it was 2005 or 2009, but there was one of the Lions tours when he was genuinely one of the form looseheads and was really justifying his inclusion in the squad - unfortunately he got injured late in the season and it was never to be.

pep talk for chunk

coach - "Oi chunk! each time to run into an opponent we'll give you an extra pie in the post match meal"

chunk - " aye boss"

coach - "oi chunk. each time you fall onto a loose ball to stop an opponent getting it, we'll give you an extra two pies in the post match meal"

chunk - "with broon suace boss?"

coach - "yes chunk"

chunk - "chunk like broon sauce. chunk smash"

Tiger

Wee trip down memory lane: (2012 summer tour)

https://www.606v2.com/t31570-well-done-scotland

Interesting to see who has really stepped up or not:

- Finn Russell's name was being bounded about.
- Jamie Farndale was an exciting prospect, but unfortunately hasn't really progressed.

Also, when will we next play Australia - do they still fear us?

Look at all that optimism!! Even Biltong et al were getting involved. We did well sticking with Robinson and we had plenty of good young players gaining experience.

Fast forward 5 months from that thread and we lost to Tonga.

Even with our injuries, if we don't beat Italy by 15 points, I'll be dissapointed!

Don't worry chaps, 3 years from now we'll look back on this thread and think, "boy we didn't see that World Cup win coming did we!? And to cement it with back to back grandslams as well. What a coach Vern Cotter is"

GLove39 wrote:Don't worry chaps, 3 years from now we'll look back on this thread and think, "boy we didn't see that World Cup win coming did we!? And to cement it with back to back grandslams as well. What a coach Vern Cotter is"

Just watch last play…Hamilton should be banned for life for trying to 69 Alun Wyn.

No place for that kind of thing in our sport.

Well I wasn't watching the game properly, but from what I could see Horne had a decent game at 10 tonight - he even kicked his goals!

Can't help but think it was a mistake not getting Tonks some game time for Edinburgh. Plus, Heathcoat was beyond awful...

Feel sorry for Heathcote. I really thought a year ago that he could be something very special and that moving away from the nepotism quagmire that was Bath was a great move.

Now I cannot help but wonder whether Wuss truly is his level.

His goal kicking was a massive strength previously but has disintegrated on a scale akin to Tiger Woods. He has the yips and his all-round game doesn't withstand a collapse in his kicking game.

I'd still have kept him but Friday makes his departure easier to stomach. Looks like Tonks, Te Rure and Bezzy next season, which does overload me with confidence.

Anyone see Dean Ryan's 6 Nations summary in the Guardian the other day.
Was assessing each team & stating who their key player is, turns out ours is... erm, big Jim!?

Main man Jim Hamilton. May look a bit left field considering he has started both games from the bench but Big Jim can be cussed and cantankerous enough for a whole clan of second rows.

Dean Ryan is a dinosaur. Our forwards went backwards under him.

Our key player is Stuart Hogg. Our attack revolves around his counter attacks and line breaks.

Indeed, makes you wonder why we don't get these newspaper gigs!

Also this just in, from a journalist for the Irish Independent, Castrogiovanni will miss next week

14 stitches for Martin Castrogiovanni who was bitten in the face by a friend's dog. Misses Italy's game with Scotland as a result.

Poor chap, sounds rather horrific.

You can't help wondering which hospital dog is currently in.

That should make life easier for Ali Dickinson!

To be honest Castro is a bit of a liability these days. probably 2 or 3 years past his best. He would not be playing for any other international side than Italy (and I include Scotland in that!).

Italy, unfortunately after years of having a conveyor belt of good scrummaging props, don't have anyone better.

Hearing unconfirmed reports he was bitten by a Westie...

I heard it was Schizoid. Apparently Castro described Kellock as a big jessie....

funnyExiledScot wrote:I heard it was Schizoid. Apparently Castro described Kellock as a big jessie....

OP updated in order to pull the fancy pants firmly on:

Thanks to FES for providing the picture of him relaxing at the weekend.

Tweet from Scotland team that there will be familiar faces added to the squad today... let's hope it is Kelly Brown, Ally Hogg, Nathan Hines(wishful thinking) and not the ruck inspector!

Before we get too excited, it might just be Denton and Cusiter...

Yeah, thought of Denton just after I posted. Much more likely