Ireland v England - Match Thread
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Who is going to win
Ireland v England - Match Thread
First topic message reminder :
I know I am two weeks early but Ireland v England on Sunday 1st March will possibly be the 6 nations decider as both teams are the only two teams still undefeated in the 6 nations so far this year.
There are many different angles, plots and sub plots to this game. Here are some of the many things at stake:
Reaburn Shield:
Ireland have held it for 4 consecutive games having defeated previous holders SA in November.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeburn_Shield
3rd place in rankings:
Triple Crown:
Only Ireland and England can still win this trophy and with due respect to Scotland and Wales who Ireland have yet to play to win it would be some achievement this year.
Grand Slam:
Only Ireland and England and win the slam.
6 nations title:
Obviously France and Wales are still in the running with only one loss but the bookies have Ireland and England as favorites at this point.
Millennium Trophy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Trophy
Eye on the WC:
The earliest Ireland and England could possibly meet at the WC is the Semi finals if they both win their pools and their quarter finals or both come runner up and win their quarters. Either way I think other fixtures such England v Wales and Ireland v France were more important for each nations WC preparations.
Ireland need one more win to tie their record of 10 sucessive wins.
Head to head record:
Overall: England 74 wins Ireland 46 wins
6Nations: England 7 wins Ireland 8 wins
Who is going to win and why?
http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/rugby/story/256583.html
Phil Vickery predicts an England win.
Teams:
I know I am two weeks early but Ireland v England on Sunday 1st March will possibly be the 6 nations decider as both teams are the only two teams still undefeated in the 6 nations so far this year.
There are many different angles, plots and sub plots to this game. Here are some of the many things at stake:
Reaburn Shield:
Ireland have held it for 4 consecutive games having defeated previous holders SA in November.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raeburn_Shield
3rd place in rankings:
Triple Crown:
Only Ireland and England can still win this trophy and with due respect to Scotland and Wales who Ireland have yet to play to win it would be some achievement this year.
Grand Slam:
Only Ireland and England and win the slam.
6 nations title:
Obviously France and Wales are still in the running with only one loss but the bookies have Ireland and England as favorites at this point.
Millennium Trophy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Trophy
Eye on the WC:
The earliest Ireland and England could possibly meet at the WC is the Semi finals if they both win their pools and their quarter finals or both come runner up and win their quarters. Either way I think other fixtures such England v Wales and Ireland v France were more important for each nations WC preparations.
Ireland need one more win to tie their record of 10 sucessive wins.
Head to head record:
Overall: England 74 wins Ireland 46 wins
6Nations: England 7 wins Ireland 8 wins
Who is going to win and why?
http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2015/rugby/story/256583.html
Phil Vickery predicts an England win.
Teams:
- England:
England side to face Ireland
15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 16 caps)
14. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
12. Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 9 caps)
11. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps)
10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 8 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 28 caps)
2. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 63 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 47 caps)
4. David Attwood (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
5. George Kruis (Saracens, 6 caps)
6. James Haskell (Wasps, 55 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (captain, Harlequins, 34 caps)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 14 caps)
- Ireland:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 59
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 58
13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 3
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 7
11. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 13
10. Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro) 48
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 32
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 14
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 80
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 46
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 98 captain
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 27
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 31
8. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 6
Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 40
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 48
18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 7
19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 14
20. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 7
21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster) 15
23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster) 10
Last edited by GunsGerms on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:10 am; edited 6 times in total
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms France at home are a different beast to France away.
You were in control vs Italy too but you're inability to score tries against 15 men has to be questioned.
Tighthead I think Irish confidence comes from Irish fans believing that they have not got out of 1st gear yet.
They are probably right but England are a tougher side than both Italy and France.
Well we beat them away too. We havent lost to them in 4 matches so it was a poor example IMO.
Not concerned about our try tally. We scored the most tries last year of all team so Im sure this team has a few in it yet.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Oh ok, makes sense i suppose, perhaps that is his thinking to counter Sexton. Will be very close game i think and if England perform as they have done then they should win, but IMO will be their first test of character this term….Wales were nearly as village as Italy.
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
Join date : 2014-12-04
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
asoreleftshoulder wrote:TightHEAD wrote:The Irish seem very confident seeing as they struggled against a very poor one dimensional French team.
Struggled?We won comfortably despite not playing very well.
Isn't that the crux of it? If both teams play like they have in the previous two matches, Ireland will lose heavily.
But everyone expects Ireland to raise their game, and play like they did in the Autumn. That's why Ireland are slight favourites.
Alex_Germany- Posts : 505
Join date : 2012-01-10
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
asoreleftshoulder wrote:TightHEAD wrote:The Irish seem very confident seeing as they struggled against a very poor one dimensional French team.
Struggled?We won comfortably despite not playing very well.
Yeah i am not sure Ireland were in control and it certainly was not a comfortable last 25mins. I actually gave Ireland the first half, Just, but France the second half. It was more France's inability to be clinical that saved Ireland in my opinion. Schmidt's tactics nearly got found out in a bad way and I expect them to at some stage against a team that has clinical finishers... England?
Nachos Jones- Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Gunsgerms you scored the most tries last year but we are talking about this year.
If the only tries England scored in a tournament were against the worst side in the competition when the opposition were down to 14 and 13 men respectively I would be a little worried!
Only France have scored less tries.
Your defence has been strong but your attack has been poor so far.
In contrast England have been strong in attack but poor in defence.
England's defence does worry me but if Ireland can't exploit it - it becomes less of an issue.
Gwlad? Nearly as village? What does that mean?
If the only tries England scored in a tournament were against the worst side in the competition when the opposition were down to 14 and 13 men respectively I would be a little worried!
Only France have scored less tries.
Your defence has been strong but your attack has been poor so far.
In contrast England have been strong in attack but poor in defence.
England's defence does worry me but if Ireland can't exploit it - it becomes less of an issue.
Gwlad? Nearly as village? What does that mean?
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you scored the most tries last year but we are talking about this year.
If the only tries England scored in a tournament were against the worst side in the competition when the opposition were down to 14 and 13 men respectively I would be a little worried!
Only France have scored less tries.
Your defence has been strong but your attack has been poor so far.
In contrast England have been strong in attack but poor in defence.
England's defence does worry me but if Ireland can't exploit it - it becomes less of an issue.
Gwlad? Nearly as village? What does that mean?
There are two main types of rugby….'village' is as it suggests, not very impressive ( villagio if it is Italy)
The second, mostly expounded by my own brethren, is Champagne rugby, the pinnacle of the beautiful game.
You must have lead a very sheltered life not to know that?
Gwlad- Posts : 4224
Join date : 2014-12-04
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Oh right I get it village rugby. Can't say I have heard that in a sentence describing a team like Italy or Wales but each to their own I guess.
You don't hear the term champagne rugby too often either.
You don't hear the term champagne rugby too often either.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
This is the one and only time I will be cheering on Ireland this year
Steffan- Posts : 7856
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Age : 43
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Nachos Jones wrote:asoreleftshoulder wrote:TightHEAD wrote:The Irish seem very confident seeing as they struggled against a very poor one dimensional French team.
Struggled?We won comfortably despite not playing very well.
Yeah i am not sure Ireland were in control and it certainly was not a comfortable last 25mins. I actually gave Ireland the first half, Just, but France the second half. It was more France's inability to be clinical that saved Ireland in my opinion. Schmidt's tactics nearly got found out in a bad way and I expect them to at some stage against a team that has clinical finishers... England?
I completely disagree,France only looked dangerous when we were down to 14 men.The closer it got to 80 minutes the more comfortable we looked as their impact subs ran out of puff.If Sexton had dummied and ran under the posts instead of firing the ball at Paynes head I think we'd have won by 20+,as it was we just saw the game out and while they managed to stretch our defense a few time they never looked likely to score.
asoreleftshoulder- Posts : 3945
Join date : 2011-05-15
Location : Meath,Ireland.
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
I guess everyone sees things differently asoreleftshoulder. I certainly did not feel that Ireland were in total control at anytime during the match. When Parra came on in the second half (thank god PSA is inept at seeing him as the best 9 in France) Ireland were certainly on the back foot. I honestly felt that Ireland were hanging on for dear lift for at least the last 15mins.
Nachos Jones- Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Ireland deserved winners but France were putting a lot of pressure on at the end
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
beshocked wrote:That's interesting rodders because the closer the game comes the more I believe England will win.
Ireland might well cause England problems at the lineout as Ireland are good disrupting. I feel that England will get on top of Ireland at the scrum. As for the breakdown - depends how Ireland handle Haskell and Billy. Wales couldn't keep Haskell quiet, Italy couldn't keep Billy quiet. Equally England will need to stop Sean O Brien.
As for the centre battle - I can see Burrell and Joseph causing some real problems. Burrell has been relatively quiet so far but that might make Ireland focus on him less.
Back three - with England having effectively 3 full backs they should be able to handle the inevitable high balls coming their way.
Youngs was on the winning team in 2013. Not sure you can say he hates coming to Ireland.
England by 5 points IMO.
I think the back row England have could do serious damage - no doubt...Billy V destroyed Munster and O'Mahoney struggled against him in the RCC. Apart from O'Brien I think England have a big physical edge in the back row. Marler destroyed Ross in the RCC too.
England's backs have looked very sharp, whereas Ireland haven't done too much in attack.
All that said I think Ireland just know how to win and win tight games with the backs to wall, more so than England.
I actually think that we'll see a surprise here in that I'm predicting Ireland's backs to have the edge, rather than the other way round. Defensively we are much stronger and I think have much more in attack than we've seen previously.
rodders- Moderator
- Posts : 25501
Join date : 2011-05-20
Age : 43
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Cracking game so far in the U20's match.
Ireland ahead 6-3 after 25 minutes. Ringrose & Co just did a combo of pass and hack up to the English line with the ball about to go out, and Ringrose somehow manages to flick it back through his legs, and keep it alive. England infringe again and lose a man to the bin. Ireland kick the penalty.
9-3.
Ireland ahead 6-3 after 25 minutes. Ringrose & Co just did a combo of pass and hack up to the English line with the ball about to go out, and Ringrose somehow manages to flick it back through his legs, and keep it alive. England infringe again and lose a man to the bin. Ireland kick the penalty.
9-3.
Pot Hale- Posts : 7781
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 62
Location : North East
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Ireland immediately infringe after the kick off and scrum-half Mitchell takes the kick for England.
9-6.
9-6.
Pot Hale- Posts : 7781
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 62
Location : North East
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
England pile on the pressure and Ireland commit a similar offside infringement on their line and off goes the Irish No 8.
Ireland defend brilliantly and capitalise on an English error in their passing. Ball eventually goes out by an English boot for a lineout inside the Irish 22. 35 mins gone.
England will have their player back shortly.
Ireland defend brilliantly and capitalise on an English error in their passing. Ball eventually goes out by an English boot for a lineout inside the Irish 22. 35 mins gone.
England will have their player back shortly.
Pot Hale- Posts : 7781
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 62
Location : North East
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Great u20 game. Donal Leneghan and Ryle Nugent commenting about how brave Ireland are to try and win a six nations game at home is infuriating.
kunu- Posts : 523
Join date : 2012-03-10
Location : dublin
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
What is the latest score?
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
England won 19-14
dont know details but the score and scorers are up on espn
dont know details but the score and scorers are up on espn
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
SecretFly wrote:Yep, Well-Past-It, I understand that dynamic - but again, out of a crowd of 80,000, I think a good average of the English contingent would still be in the 40 to 50,000 area at least ...and add to that that not all of the 50,000 crowd at Lansdowne will be Irish! (we got our own English and Scottish and SH expats too)
I'm just warning Quins not to be getting his excuses in early, because we could have used the same ones last year considering the final result. If Ireland do win (and it'll be tough against a skilled and confident England) it'll be because they won fairy and squarely on the field - not using the crowd refs.
I've read reports on other sites that there will be as many as 15,000 English fans in Lansdowne Road on Sunday, makes a change from the province fans swamping English stadiums! Maybe I am wrong, but I can really feel something building from an English point of view.
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
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Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
lostinwales wrote:England won 19-14
dont know details but the score and scorers are up on espn
A close game. Ireland dominated the breakdown in the first half and should have scored a couple of tries. England knocked some heads together at HT and came out and gained parity and shaded the second half.
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
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Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
I should have watched it... but wasn't in the mood to be disappointed in the lead into the real thing...so I decided to watch Ospreys/Leinster instead..............................................
Rubbish.
Rubbish.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
SecretFly wrote:I should have watched it... but wasn't in the mood to be disappointed in the lead into the real thing...so I decided to watch Ospreys/Leinster instead..............................................
Rubbish.
Ireland lost, but there wasn't too much to be too disappointed about. It really could have gone either way (should have gone Ireland's way really, given the first half). Ireland have some talented young lads coming through there.
Cumbrian- Posts : 5656
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Age : 41
Location : Bath
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
Tiger/Chief- Posts : 250
Join date : 2012-10-24
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Big game tomorrow.
Hopefully we can get the win.
Hope its a good game, be a tough game for both sides, don't think there will be many points between the sides.
Big performance from SOB. First try scorer.
Looking forward to it.
Todays games should be good to.
Hopefully we can get the win.
Hope its a good game, be a tough game for both sides, don't think there will be many points between the sides.
Big performance from SOB. First try scorer.
Looking forward to it.
Todays games should be good to.
westisbest- Posts : 7932
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Bournemouth
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Missed the game, but does anyone think Jon Callard is a massive step down from Nick Walshe as a coach. Really gutted we let him leave.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Hood83 wrote:Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
The forecast is cool, dry and a bit breezy for Dublin tomorrow...
Looking forward to the match with nervous anticipation. It's a real shame about Brown but I'm hoping that Goode can prove some of his critics wrong. I also hope that there is the sort of support from the English team that I've been reading on here - 15000 would be amazing.
stub- Posts : 2226
Join date : 2013-01-31
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
stub wrote:Hood83 wrote:Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
The forecast is cool, dry and a bit breezy for Dublin tomorrow...
Looking forward to the match with nervous anticipation. It's a real shame about Brown but I'm hoping that Goode can prove some of his critics wrong. I also hope that there is the sort of support from the English team that I've been reading on here - 15000 would be amazing.
Aaaahhh pants - I'm actually not hugely pleased about May being booted altogether. I understand it, but it's about error count again rather than what someone might be able to bring. Our bench is absolutely void of pace and creativity.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Just saw some highlights of last year's game on Facebook so I thought I'd have a watch. Turns out I forgot just how good Mike Brown was that day in everything he did.
Also noticed May was targeted with crossfield kicks with Trimble getting the better of him most of the time. Maybe bringing in Nowell was a good move then.
I think they were RFU highlights because they only showed England player interviews before and after, but what was noticeable was when England got their try and got ahead on the scoreboard they closed the game out really well. I think there were 2 successful choke tackles and 2 other turnovers that sucked all the momentum away from Ireland. I think neither team will want to be chasing the game too much, and it will come down to that one moment, be it an outrageous piece of attacking skill or defensive error. Can't wait!
Also noticed May was targeted with crossfield kicks with Trimble getting the better of him most of the time. Maybe bringing in Nowell was a good move then.
I think they were RFU highlights because they only showed England player interviews before and after, but what was noticeable was when England got their try and got ahead on the scoreboard they closed the game out really well. I think there were 2 successful choke tackles and 2 other turnovers that sucked all the momentum away from Ireland. I think neither team will want to be chasing the game too much, and it will come down to that one moment, be it an outrageous piece of attacking skill or defensive error. Can't wait!
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
robbo277 wrote:Just saw some highlights of last year's game on Facebook so I thought I'd have a watch. Turns out I forgot just how good Mike Brown was that day in everything he did.
Also noticed May was targeted with crossfield kicks with Trimble getting the better of him most of the time. Maybe bringing in Nowell was a good move then.
I think they were RFU highlights because they only showed England player interviews before and after, but what was noticeable was when England got their try and got ahead on the scoreboard they closed the game out really well. I think there were 2 successful choke tackles and 2 other turnovers that sucked all the momentum away from Ireland. I think neither team will want to be chasing the game too much, and it will come down to that one moment, be it an outrageous piece of attacking skill or defensive error. Can't wait!
Agree with that robbo - I'm expecting the game to be decided on fine margins. There does not appear to be much between the teams as far as I can see.
stub- Posts : 2226
Join date : 2013-01-31
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Hood83 wrote:stub wrote:Hood83 wrote:Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
The forecast is cool, dry and a bit breezy for Dublin tomorrow...
Looking forward to the match with nervous anticipation. It's a real shame about Brown but I'm hoping that Goode can prove some of his critics wrong. I also hope that there is the sort of support from the English team that I've been reading on here - 15000 would be amazing.
Aaaahhh pants - I'm actually not hugely pleased about May being booted altogether. I understand it, but it's about error count again rather than what someone might be able to bring. Our bench is absolutely void of pace and creativity.
Cipriani? Croft might just be the quickest player on both teams (or Watson...)
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
lostinwales wrote:Hood83 wrote:stub wrote:Hood83 wrote:Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
The forecast is cool, dry and a bit breezy for Dublin tomorrow...
Looking forward to the match with nervous anticipation. It's a real shame about Brown but I'm hoping that Goode can prove some of his critics wrong. I also hope that there is the sort of support from the English team that I've been reading on here - 15000 would be amazing.
Aaaahhh pants - I'm actually not hugely pleased about May being booted altogether. I understand it, but it's about error count again rather than what someone might be able to bring. Our bench is absolutely void of pace and creativity.
Cipriani? Croft might just be the quickest player on both teams (or Watson...)
I don't think Cipriani quite has the razzle-dazzle he once did. Croft, i guess, just glad there's no Ferris to make him look an obvious second best. Nothing back 3 related, or in the centres that looks creative though, to my mind.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Cipriani has looked very good indeed when I've seen him for Sale this season. It really might be that Bus and Steve Diamond have been the making of him.
Cowshot- Posts : 1513
Join date : 2011-02-14
Location : Kingston-upon-Thames
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Cowshot wrote:Cipriani has looked very good indeed when I've seen him for Sale this season. It really might be that Bus and Steve Diamond have been the making of him.
I agree, but I think it's his control that has been so much better. I think he's curbed some of his attacking instincts to become a more rounded player.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
I agree with your observations of Cipriani at Sale, but he still worries me. It was just a year ago, maybe a bit more, that he was a pariah. Can a person change their internal wiring in just a year? Change their nerves and decision-making in such a short amount of time? Will he really play 'D'? Maybe it is just me.Hood83 wrote:Cowshot wrote:Cipriani has looked very good indeed when I've seen him for Sale this season. It really might be that Bus and Steve Diamond have been the making of him.
I agree, but I think it's his control that has been so much better. I think he's curbed some of his attacking instincts to become a more rounded player.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12351
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
I think it's more than that. I think he's grown up and realized that a team is more than a stage allowing him to showboat and he's now using his considerable talent for the team not just himself: Makes him potentially very dangerous indeed.
Dr grey: High impact bus rewired him. Dr Frankendiamond rebuilt him. Sort of.
Dr grey: High impact bus rewired him. Dr Frankendiamond rebuilt him. Sort of.
Cowshot- Posts : 1513
Join date : 2011-02-14
Location : Kingston-upon-Thames
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Hoping you are right mate!Cowshot wrote:I think it's more than that. I think he's grown up and realized that a team is more than a stage allowing him to showboat and he's now using his considerable talent for the team not just himself: Makes him potentially very dangerous indeed.
Dr grey: High impact bus rewired him. Dr Frankendiamond rebuilt him. Sort of.
Diamond does come across a little like a failed genetic experiment. Maybe they got it right with Cipriani.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12351
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
doctor_grey wrote:I agree with your observations of Cipriani at Sale, but he still worries me. It was just a year ago, maybe a bit more, that he was a pariah. Can a person change their internal wiring in just a year? Change their nerves and decision-making in such a short amount of time? Will he really play 'D'? Maybe it is just me.Hood83 wrote:Cowshot wrote:Cipriani has looked very good indeed when I've seen him for Sale this season. It really might be that Bus and Steve Diamond have been the making of him.
I agree, but I think it's his control that has been so much better. I think he's curbed some of his attacking instincts to become a more rounded player.
Oh i agree, I'm not suggesting he start at all. Just reflecting on what looks like a slightly underwhelming bench. Do you reckon Wade will ever step up? I know both he and May have flaws but I do feel like you miss something without that express acceleration/pace. Nowell looks like a very very good all rounder, maybe that's the better option, just feels a bit negative.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Hood83 wrote:lostinwales wrote:Hood83 wrote:stub wrote:Hood83 wrote:Tiger/Chief wrote:Unfair to say England's defence has been poor, 2nd half against Wales England's defence battered Wales backwards time and time again! Few individuals mistakes against Italy but our defensive pattern has been good!
We're definitely missing Barret and Lawes defensively but as has been discussed Joseph offers something Barret can't!
Looking forward to seeing Jack Nowell's direct running, expect him to defend at 10 on set piece as well!
I'm not sure i'll be the first to say this, but i am NOT looking forward to seeing Goode at 15. Safe option, fine, but I'd far rather we risked it with Watson or similar. I guess we're expecting them to bomb it up - I actually have a feeling Schmidt's going to be a step ahead and play a game with less kicking, or at least more for touch, less up and unders. But I guess it'll depend on the weather as well.
The forecast is cool, dry and a bit breezy for Dublin tomorrow...
Looking forward to the match with nervous anticipation. It's a real shame about Brown but I'm hoping that Goode can prove some of his critics wrong. I also hope that there is the sort of support from the English team that I've been reading on here - 15000 would be amazing.
Aaaahhh pants - I'm actually not hugely pleased about May being booted altogether. I understand it, but it's about error count again rather than what someone might be able to bring. Our bench is absolutely void of pace and creativity.
Cipriani? Croft might just be the quickest player on both teams (or Watson...)
I don't think Cipriani quite has the razzle-dazzle he once did. Croft, i guess, just glad there's no Ferris to make him look an obvious second best. Nothing back 3 related, or in the centres that looks creative though, to my mind.
No Stephen Ferris, but a Peter O'Mahony to make the whole english back row look second best.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
Join date : 2011-09-17
Age : 32
Location : Belfast
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Tbh I know POM is very highly rated but for whatever reason he hasn't got much out of his games against England so far
lostinwales- lostinwales
- Posts : 13368
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Delighted to see the phony war is over. Of the English starting XV I'd only take 1. Marler, 4. Atwood, 7.Robshaw and 13. Joseph to put into the Irish XV (with a bit of backrow re-jigging). Ireland by 5-10
Cannot wait.
Cannot wait.
Engine#4- Posts : 579
Join date : 2013-09-27
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Engine#4 wrote:Delighted to see the phony war is over. Of the English starting XV I'd only take 1. Marler, 4. Atwood, 7.Robshaw and 13. Joseph to put into the Irish XV (with a bit of backrow re-jigging). Ireland by 5-10
Cannot wait.
Srsly? Cole is substantially better than Ross, and Vunipola would be a better option than Murphy. Most of the Irish backline shades it but across the park it's very close. The only areas of sure advantage are the English front row and Sexton's goalkicking. So a lot depends on how Sir sees the scrum and breakdown
Poorfour- Posts : 6428
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
i wouldnt swap our ford-jj-watson axis for anything. speed, cohesion and communication like that is worth more than the sum of the individuals.
the attacking threat england offers with these 3 (plus a 10kg heavier, faster nowell) is what will create gaps for the forwards, as green defenders are going to inevitably leave gaps.
the attacking threat england offers with these 3 (plus a 10kg heavier, faster nowell) is what will create gaps for the forwards, as green defenders are going to inevitably leave gaps.
quinsforever- Posts : 6765
Join date : 2013-10-09
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Poorfour wrote:Engine#4 wrote:Delighted to see the phony war is over. Of the English starting XV I'd only take 1. Marler, 4. Atwood, 7.Robshaw and 13. Joseph to put into the Irish XV (with a bit of backrow re-jigging). Ireland by 5-10
Cannot wait.
Srsly? Cole is substantially better than Ross, and Vunipola would be a better option than Murphy. Most of the Irish backline shades it but across the park it's very close. The only areas of sure advantage are the English front row and Sexton's goalkicking. So a lot depends on how Sir sees the scrum and breakdown
Missed Cole in my excitement. Stick him in sure. On reflection drop Marler (forgive me Jack). When I said "a bit of backrow re-jigging" I meant I'd have;
6. SOB
7. Robshaw
8. POM
So no space for Vunipola. I agree with you though, it is tight. I'd imagine you wouldn't have many more Irish, if any more, than I would have English.
Engine#4- Posts : 579
Join date : 2013-09-27
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Taking things position for position rather than rejigging I'd say the head to head looks like below at current:
1.Marler - If Healy were fully fit he'd edge it but I'd take Joe over Jack
2.Best or Hartley - Both have have their strengths but both have been mixed this 6 Nations
3.Cole
4.Attwood or Toner - Very even
5.O'Connell
6.O'Mahony
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola - Heaslip is a big loss
9.Murray
10.Sexton
11.Zebo - Nowell yet to play
12.Henshaw or Burrell - Neither has set the world alight
13.Joseph
14.Bowe - Watson has been impressive but Bowe has the experience and class for the big day
15.Kearney - Brown is a huge loss
7 Ireland
5 England
3 drawn
Pretty even with Ireland just nudging it on paper with the experience there for a close game.
Should be a cracker!
1.Marler - If Healy were fully fit he'd edge it but I'd take Joe over Jack
2.Best or Hartley - Both have have their strengths but both have been mixed this 6 Nations
3.Cole
4.Attwood or Toner - Very even
5.O'Connell
6.O'Mahony
7.Robshaw
8.Vunipola - Heaslip is a big loss
9.Murray
10.Sexton
11.Zebo - Nowell yet to play
12.Henshaw or Burrell - Neither has set the world alight
13.Joseph
14.Bowe - Watson has been impressive but Bowe has the experience and class for the big day
15.Kearney - Brown is a huge loss
7 Ireland
5 England
3 drawn
Pretty even with Ireland just nudging it on paper with the experience there for a close game.
Should be a cracker!
king_carlos- Posts : 12766
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Big game. Come on England. I feel moderately confident you can do this.
boomeranga- Posts : 794
Join date : 2011-06-07
Location : Sydney
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
What do I think now?
I still think England are going to come out of the blocks like a runaway train in an attempt to marmalise us when we're cold and 'silence de crowd'.
Now that might be problematic, because some of the English were saying that's exactly what they think the Irish will try from the off - hit England with the full blooded kitchen sink and try to deaden the hope for any comeback in the second half.
So.... if both sets of players have the same full-speed ahead plan from the very beginning, then it'll be a ravishingly interesting and spectacular game for about 30 minutes.
After that the game will be called off due to too many stretchers transporting players to hospital.
I still think England are going to come out of the blocks like a runaway train in an attempt to marmalise us when we're cold and 'silence de crowd'.
Now that might be problematic, because some of the English were saying that's exactly what they think the Irish will try from the off - hit England with the full blooded kitchen sink and try to deaden the hope for any comeback in the second half.
So.... if both sets of players have the same full-speed ahead plan from the very beginning, then it'll be a ravishingly interesting and spectacular game for about 30 minutes.
After that the game will be called off due to too many stretchers transporting players to hospital.
SecretFly- Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Massive game for Lancaster - he simply has to win this. With the plethora of resources at his disposal England should be winning trophies. His revolving door selections continue to be hit and miss and can't instill any degree of loyalty amongst his players.
Did he tell Johnny May where he was going wrong - hero to zero in so few games indicates that he didn't give him too many chances? Was May really so bad that when there is a forced change through injury at 15, Bomber thinks that is the right time to make an unforced one at 11 as well?
As an Ireland fan I'm not complaining that Lancaster has brought in two (slower) replacements with a load of pressure to perform rather than just one. Goode may not get another change to make the RWC squad so there's a lot riding on this for him, and Nowell will have to find an understanding with Joseph PDQ. Good luck to them anyway.
I predict a close first half while Schmidt works out England in the conditions, but expect Sexton to build some daylight in the second half.
Did he tell Johnny May where he was going wrong - hero to zero in so few games indicates that he didn't give him too many chances? Was May really so bad that when there is a forced change through injury at 15, Bomber thinks that is the right time to make an unforced one at 11 as well?
As an Ireland fan I'm not complaining that Lancaster has brought in two (slower) replacements with a load of pressure to perform rather than just one. Goode may not get another change to make the RWC squad so there's a lot riding on this for him, and Nowell will have to find an understanding with Joseph PDQ. Good luck to them anyway.
I predict a close first half while Schmidt works out England in the conditions, but expect Sexton to build some daylight in the second half.
The Great Aukster- Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
The Great Aukster wrote:Massive game for Lancaster - he simply has to win this. With the plethora of resources at his disposal England should be winning trophies. His revolving door selections continue to be hit and miss and can't instill any degree of loyalty amongst his players.
Did he tell Johnny May where he was going wrong - hero to zero in so few games indicates that he didn't give him too many chances? Was May really so bad that when there is a forced change through injury at 15, Bomber thinks that is the right time to make an unforced one at 11 as well?
As an Ireland fan I'm not complaining that Lancaster has brought in two (slower) replacements with a load of pressure to perform rather than just one. Goode may not get another change to make the RWC squad so there's a lot riding on this for him, and Nowell will have to find an understanding with Joseph PDQ. Good luck to them anyway.
I predict a close first half while Schmidt works out England in the conditions, but expect Sexton to build some daylight in the second half.
I suspect he has told May but pretty much agree with all of this, minus he simply has to win. I think we can lose, but it it's more than a score I think questions may be asked of whether we're going backwards compared to you guys.
Hood83- Posts : 2751
Join date : 2011-06-12
Re: Ireland v England - Match Thread
Earls had yet another storming game for Munster last night so he must surely be in Schmidt's considerations...
Nachos Jones- Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15
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