Ireland v England - Post-match warmdown

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Ireland 19 - 9 England

A continuation of the match thread.

Be respectful please. Your mothers would be proud.

Henshaw's running lines and offloads paired with Earls' pace and support lines is something I'd love to see. Earls has a very good understanding with Zebo to boot.

ME-109 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How can people still be calling for Earls after the match last night? He yet again demonstrated that he can almost never take the right option when he failed to put ROM in for a simply try against Glasgow in the first half.

I thought Payne had his best game yet and is at least a very solid option at 13. The player that people should be calling for is Fitzy; to come in for Jones. He's been Leinster's best player all season.

Leinster you really should think before you post (or at least look at the greater picture). To my mind ROM wasnt making the call loud enough and on top of the excellent two breaks he made numerous passes and offloads and was overall excellent his reading of the play from Hurley was great and his try sumptuous  (another outrageous bit of skill) . I am not calling for Payne to be dropped...far from it but Earls is surely putting his hand up in a big way.

PS...I also like Fitzy and think he is in with a shout....but between the both of them fitness is the big thing. Earls looks (fingers crossed) to have passed the rubicon...Fitz meh he still looks like he could break down any moment.

As an aside I think everyone is expecting England to beat France but I dont believe its as clear cut. There were about 15 minutes of the game yesterday when France seemed to find their rhythm and their best team and if they get their act together for 40 mins will cause difficulties.

Cyril wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:In addition, there were head clashes in the game that looked - to my view - quite intentional.

Which incidents?

The only head clash I can remember in the game was Healy and Cole. I don't think either player intentionally tried to clash heads there.

I'm not sure why anyone would as it's often a matter of luck who comes off worst in a head clash.

The frontal bone is generally considered to be the strongest part of the skull. However, there is a medical view that, in fact, the temporal bone - particularly at the sides of the head around the ear - is the strongest or most resilient area.

I do think that there is intention - based on ignorance - to use the head as part of a tackle process by one player to dominate another. It is a dangerous assumption by either player that they will come through this unscathed or undamaged. I'm not assigning fault - simply pointing out that it is a dangerous practice.

ME-109 wrote:As an aside I think everyone is expecting England to beat France but I dont believe its as clear cut. There were about 15 minutes of the game yesterday when France seemed to find their rhythm and their best team and if they get their act together for 40 mins will cause difficulties.  

I'd agree with that ME, but not exactly for that 15 or so minutes (first bit of the second half?).  I wasn't convinced by that gung-ho splurge. It just looked like the desperate gasp of a dying team with no ideas left.  Someone in the studio said that when O'Gara saw it he said it'd never last.  And that's how I felt when I saw them run and dart.  And it didn't because they're not coached.

But still, I think the same madness and natural ability that gave them a victory last year against England could be enough to swing a tight game their way again.

But then again, we have to temper that by realising Wales could do a number on us, which would make France's victory worthless to us.

Pot Hale wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:In addition, there were head clashes in the game that looked - to my view - quite intentional.

Which incidents?

The only head clash I can remember in the game was Healy and Cole. I don't think either player intentionally tried to clash heads there.

I'm not sure why anyone would as it's often a matter of luck who comes off worst in a head clash.

The frontal bone is generally considered to be the strongest part of the skull.  However, there is a medical view that, in fact, the temporal bone - particularly at the sides of the head around the ear - is the strongest or most resilient area.

I do think that there is intention - based on ignorance - to use the head as part of a tackle process by one player to dominate another.   It is a dangerous assumption by either player that they will come through this unscathed or undamaged.  I'm not assigning fault - simply pointing out that it is a dangerous practice.

Not sure I saw any intentional head butts. Given the concussion protocols it s hardly something you d coach either.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:As an aside I think everyone is expecting England to beat France but I dont believe its as clear cut. There were about 15 minutes of the game yesterday when France seemed to find their rhythm and their best team and if they get their act together for 40 mins will cause difficulties.  

I'd agree with that ME, but not exactly for that 15 or so minutes (first bit of the second half?).  I wasn't convinced by that gung-ho splurge. It just looked like the desperate gasp of a dying team with no ideas left.  Someone in the studio said that when O'Gara saw it he said it'd never last.  And that's how I felt when I saw them run and dart.  And it didn't because they're not coached.

But still, I think the same madness and natural ability that gave them a victory last year against England could be enough to swing a tight game their way again.

But then again, we have to temper that by realising Wales could do a number on us, which would make France's victory worthless to us.

True regarding the ability to maintain it but Sutter, Dusatoir and a number of other forwards suddenly seemed to realise they were French and were not that bad at playing rugby. I think if they get rid of the brain farts (Lopez little dinks twice were so obvious the Welsh defense had a cup of tea before clearing up). Looks to me like they should just get rid of PSA and let Dusautoir be Player/Manager. Seems to be the only intelligent person in the whole of French rugby.

Re Wales...they could quite easily turn us over but I also think that our bigger backline nullifies that threat...this will be the battle of the kicking game (of which they are also very good)

There were a number of real positives out there for Ireland today, but some negatives which show this side has some way to go just yet. I was surprised that England were....so poor. There have been some back handed compliments about Ireland using a simple, boring but effective gameplan. But of course it is simple- it targeted a number of areas in which England are really very weak. While praise for Ireland has been over the top (our execution was no where near as good as being made out), I would say we barely got out of second gear. The coaching panel (Easterby deserves huge credit for turning our pack around after a poor performance at the breakdown against France) will be cross that Ireland stopped playing with 15 minutes to go. A lot to work on for Wales and a number of real selection dilemmas in the front row, backrown, back three and the bench.

I cannot for the life of me understand more criticism of Payne. Absolutely astonishing frankly after today. I've seen for Ulster where he was, perhaps charitably be described as 'average'. He has clearly demonstrated he is an international 13. Anyone who doesn't think so isn't watching the games with two eyes and already has their mind madeup about him. Maybe because he is a New Zealander- maybe he would be accepted by the begrudgers if he was called O'Payne, I don't know. I am uneasy about it for sure. But that ship has sailed. He made yards every time he carried, I don't think he missed a tackle, distributed the ball well in midfield (big improvement in the midfield by the centres this week) and was positionally spot on. I really don't get where the evidence is that he isn't up to it. Happy to have it shown to me if there is any though.

Rugby Union has changed, we need to get over the fact that defences are better and the jinking quick feet and open field breaks of yesteryear are gone. I bemoan it, but thats the way it is. As a Leinster fan, I would have picked Fitzgerald before the championship. But I genuinely think Payne is better than either he or Earls at this level.

Well done to Ireland, not only did they win but they looked good for the win. Scrum went well against what is meant to be a top 2 scrum side. Lineout was dominant against statistically the best lineout in the world last year. Nothing really you could say... ah but Ireland look a little weak there etc. No superstars anymore but 10 or so class players who would fit nicely into any side in the world.

England...Got to seriously wonder about them. Yes they have men injured in Launchbery, lawes, Tuilagi, Morgan, Brown, Farrell but would they have made a difference?

For all the good that Ford brings to Englands attacking play his tee kicking is barely premiership class let alone test class and it seriously makes you think that if they are to play with Ford they will need Farrell on the pitch at 12 and he has to take all the place kicks.
The problem is in the tight games and these days tight games = AUS, NZ, SA, IRE, WAL and FRA. Its often going to be kicker vs. kicker. Ford with the boot lacks world class accuracy but also has a very poor range. Miss kicks or have to go to the corner because of lack of range and you'll simply lose touch with a side like Ireland.

Either you are truly dominant upfront like vs. Wales or you your kicker can take 5/6 and be deadly from anywhere inside the oppositions half... for Ford its barely anywhere past the 10m line. The guy doesn't rely on pace like Cipriani so start building up those quads. It is costing England games... this isn't schoolboy rugby anymore when England had a pack 1st per man bigger than all comers.

Discipline was dreadful too, the ref was in fact rather lenient on them... I recall him telling Atwood 3 times to get back in line about 5 metres away and still he crept offside. Atwood, Haskell were very guilty today.

Robshaw too has to stop this positive rugby trash that he promotes with his kicks to the corner... he's getting a reputation for being tactically very naive. From where again he refused the posts Ford probably had a 80% chance of 3 points. At the last world cup supersport said that kicks to the corner resulted in tries 1 in every 7 kicks I think.... so 80% of 3 or 14% at 5-7.
Say you have 7 chances... with those stats you will score 1 try (and that rate probably decreases as the opposition gets better). In those 7 chances you score what 80% of the 3 pointers. So its 7 points for positive rugby or 17 for taking all the kicks at goal..... its not rocket science. Even with a average to below par kicker like Ford still puts kicking the 3 in a superior position.

Positive notes for them though... Ireland didn't really look like scoring despite dominating possession and territory for all the time the game mattered i.e. up to when they took their foot off the gas. Good try, a little fortuitous as they wouldn't have gone for it had they not got the penalty but great skill by both kicker and catcher.
Kruis looks like a natural at this level. Goode had a very good game and think in fact he suited it more than a fit Brown. Probably about it really for them.

Exiled Gael wrote: The coaching panel (Easterby deserves huge credit for turning our pack around after a poor performance at the breakdown against France) will be cross that Ireland stopped playing with 15 minutes to go.    

Did we stop playing or were we simply and genuinely f**ked at that point?  I didn't see a lot of players taking their foot off the gas.  I saw a lot of players heroically try to keep driving on nothing but fumes.
Our fitness isn't bad - but that fall off in stamina towards the final 10 or 15 minutes in high tempo games will finally cost us if we don't rectify it going into the WC.  
We've called for an 80 minute game International stamina 'rating' from our players before Joe came in...but that 80 minute grade keeps improving each year and you have to keep trying to reach it to meet the fittest and best sides.  The standard for surviving that final 10 minutes keeps going up. Even France, a team not renowned for super-fitness drove at us in the end when our puff left us.

Nachos Jones wrote:I thought that Henshaw had a very good game but he is being let down by his centre partner in Payne. Henshaw was making the ground but Payne was nowhere to be seen. Again I raise the question as to whether or not Payne is a 13 let alone an international 13.

You can't be serious? He had several big carries. As much as Henshaw.

SecretFly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote: The coaching panel (Easterby deserves huge credit for turning our pack around after a poor performance at the breakdown against France) will be cross that Ireland stopped playing with 15 minutes to go.    

Did we stop playing or were we simply and genuinely f**ked at that point?  I didn't see a lot of players taking their foot off the gas.  I saw a lot of players heroically try to keep driving on nothing but fumes.
Our fitness isn't bad - but that fall off in stamina towards the final 10 or 15 minutes in high tempo games will finally cost us if we don't rectify it going into the WC.  
We've called for an 80 minute game International stamina 'rating' from our players before Joe came in...but that 80 minute grade keeps improving each year and you have to keep trying to reach it to meet the fittest and best sides.  The standard for surviving that final 10 minutes keeps going up.  Even France, a team not renowned for super-fitness drove at us in the end when our puff left us.

I agree, some of our boys looked to be struggling for oxygen in the last 10 minutes. In fairness though, England didn't get in in that period, perhaps due to a forward pass, but either way the resolve held.

SecretFly wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote: The coaching panel (Easterby deserves huge credit for turning our pack around after a poor performance at the breakdown against France) will be cross that Ireland stopped playing with 15 minutes to go.    

Did we stop playing or were we simply and genuinely f**ked at that point?  I didn't see a lot of players taking their foot off the gas.  I saw a lot of players heroically try to keep driving on nothing but fumes.
Our fitness isn't bad - but that fall off in stamina towards the final 10 or 15 minutes in high tempo games will finally cost us if we don't rectify it going into the WC.  
We've called for an 80 minute game International stamina 'rating' from our players before Joe came in...but that 80 minute grade keeps improving each year and you have to keep trying to reach it to meet the fittest and best sides.  The standard for surviving that final 10 minutes keeps going up.  Even France, a team not renowned for super-fitness drove at us in the end when our puff left us.

I don't think so, but you may well be right. Only the players will know. I thought there was a lapse in concentration, a 'job done' mentality. Too many missed tackles in the last 15 minutes that I don't believe had anything to do with tiredness. In fact, in terms of work and effort, France and Italy looked like they were more challenging on the conditioning side of things.

I thought we should have killed England off earlier, just as we failed to do against France. We were more than ten points better today. The fact that England didn't score was not only fortunate, but hugely important come the end of the competition if we end up losing a match. We are not as 'efficient' as being made out. We were 'just one more pass' or 'one more phase' away from creating gilt edged opportunities. Murray and Sexton's decision making, at times, wasn't good enough. That isn't a criticism, more of a positive to say how much better we can be.

Actually, think of it this way. I'm a teacher. If I tell students that the pass mark in a test is 50%, and all they have to do is pass then many will do just enough to get that grade. 51% and happy days. Ireland are doing that too. Putting in absolutely no more work and effort than is needed to win a match. We need to be more clinical.

fa0019 wrote:Well done to Ireland, not only did they win but they looked good for the win. Scrum went well against what is meant to be a top 2 scrum side. Lineout was dominant against statistically the best lineout in the world last year. Nothing really you could say... ah but Ireland look a little weak there etc. No superstars anymore but 10 or so class players who would fit nicely into any side in the world.

England...Got to seriously wonder about them. Yes they have men injured in Launchbery, lawes, Tuilagi, Morgan, Brown, Farrell but would they have made a difference?

For all the good that Ford brings to Englands attacking play his tee kicking is barely premiership class let alone test class and it seriously makes you think that if they are to play with Ford they will need Farrell on the pitch at 12 and he has to take all the place kicks.
The problem is in the tight games and these days tight games = AUS, NZ, SA, IRE, WAL and FRA. Its often going to be kicker vs. kicker. Ford with the boot lacks world class accuracy but also has a very poor range. Miss kicks or have to go to the corner because of lack of range and you'll simply lose touch with a side like Ireland.

Either you are truly dominant upfront like vs. Wales or you your kicker can take 5/6 and be deadly from anywhere inside the oppositions half... for Ford its barely anywhere past the 10m line. The guy doesn't rely on pace like Cipriani so start building up those quads. It is costing England games... this isn't schoolboy rugby anymore when England had a pack 1st per man bigger than all comers.

Discipline was dreadful too, the ref was in fact rather lenient on them... I recall him telling Atwood 3 times to get back in line about 5 metres away and still he crept offside. Atwood, Haskell were very guilty today.

Robshaw too has to stop this positive rugby trash that he promotes with his kicks to the corner... he's getting a reputation for being tactically very naive. From where again he refused the posts Ford probably had a 80% chance of 3 points. At the last world cup supersport said that kicks to the corner resulted in tries 1 in every 7 kicks I think.... so 80% of 3 or 14% at 5-7.
Say you have 7 chances... with those stats you will score 1 try (and that rate probably decreases as the opposition gets better). In those 7 chances you score what 80% of the 3 pointers. So its 7 points for positive rugby or 17 for taking all the kicks at goal..... its not rocket science. Even with a average to below par kicker like Ford still puts kicking the 3 in a superior position.

Positive notes for them though... Ireland didn't really look like scoring despite dominating possession and territory for all the time the game mattered i.e. up to when they took their foot off the gas. Good try, a little fortuitous as they wouldn't have gone for it had they not got the penalty but great skill by both kicker and catcher.
Kruis looks like a natural at this level. Goode had a very good game and think in fact he suited it more than a fit Brown. Probably about it really for them.

I think Lawes, Launchbury, Wood & Brown would have made a huge difference with the type of game that was required today, but then a change in tactics would have been almost as important, and Heaslip would have been a massive plus for Ireland as well.

I tend to agree - I think we'd all agree - that Ireland, being the most pragmatic team in Europe, do enough to survive.  

And many of us get frustrated by that because it allows the opposition back into the game at an emotional level by giving them the ball, whilst we sit back and robustly defend our gains.  That's a lot of free adrenalin given to a losing side.  So I often criticise it.

But I truly don't think we're arrogant enough to play such a game against the best sides - of which England are certainly one of them.  I think that dynamic of struggling for those final 10 minutes for oxygen to keep legs going (and tactical MINDS going!) is an issue in those games (NZ, Australia, England).  

These very best sides who engage in the highest standards of scientific conditioning have the lungs to push them through those final torturous minutes of high tempo, Internationally physical games.
We might be starting out on that road trying to follow them more scientifically (finally a new conditioning coach last year after a long wait without anyone) but I think we're still a few degrees below the very best.

Improve that through the next months and we then do become seriously armed for the combat we engage in.

SecretFly wrote:I tend to agree - I think we'd all agree - that Ireland, being the most pragmatic team in Europe, do enough to survive.  

And many of us get frustrated by that because it allows the opposition back into the game at an emotional level by giving them the ball, whilst we sit back and robustly defend our gains.  That's a lot of free adrenalin given to a losing side.  So I often criticise it.

But I truly don't think we're arrogant enough to play such a game against the best sides - of which England are certainly one of them.  I think that dynamic of struggling for those final 10 minutes for oxygen to keep legs going (and tactical MINDS going!) is an issue in those games (NZ, Australia, England).  

These very best sides who engage in the highest standards of scientific conditioning have the lungs to push them through those final torturous minutes of high tempo, Internationally physical games.
We might be starting out on that road trying to follow them more scientifically (finally a new conditioning coach last year after a long wait without anyone) but I think we're still a few degrees below the very best.

Improve that through the next months and we then do become seriously armed for the combat we engage in.

We have played much better against Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in the past two seasons. I'm not a fan of kicking 44 times in a game, but if the opposition is poor under the high ball then it should be used. We wouldn't do that against the Australians for instance. Folau would be laughing. Unless that's the plan. Make him hysterical and hyperventilate until he passes out.

If we win...they can kick the f..k out of any pill shaped object within sight.

ME-109 wrote:If we win...they can kick the f..k out of any pill shaped object within sight.

I agree with this. I thought we saw a little bit more today from the backs off the set pieces. The interplay between Murray, Sexton, Toner, O'Donnell (who was superb), Henshaw and Payne was much improved. There's more to come (I hope). But as I said after the French match, if we think that any team is going to show their hand in this tournament when five of the teams are drawn against each other in two pools in the world cup, then you are nuts.

... lot more went on in that game besides kicking.  
It wasn't graceful stuff but it finally had a lot of aggressive teeth and it challenged England's perceptions about itself in many areas.

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How can people still be calling for Earls after the match last night? He yet again demonstrated that he can almost never take the right option when he failed to put ROM in for a simply try against Glasgow in the first half.

I thought Payne had his best game yet and is at least a very solid option at 13. The player that people should be calling for is Fitzy; to come in for Jones. He's been Leinster's best player all season.

Leinster you really should think before you post (or at least look at the greater picture). To my mind ROM wasnt making the call loud enough and on top of the excellent two breaks he made numerous passes and offloads and was overall excellent his reading of the play from Hurley was great and his try sumptuous  (another outrageous bit of skill) . I am not calling for Payne to be dropped...far from it but Earls is surely putting his hand up in a big way.

PS...I also like Fitzy and think he is in with a shout....but between the both of them fitness is the big thing. Earls looks (fingers crossed) to have passed the rubicon...Fitz meh he still looks like he could break down any moment.

Ye that is the thing that will always go against Fitz unfortunately. Earls is in fine form and is a great player for Munster but I just don't trust him with Ireland. He may thrive under Schmidt though and should definatly be played on the wing if he gets the chance (which he will).

Ireland fading in the last quarter must be a cliche at this stage.

It's been like that in my memory since Ireland won the Triple Crown in '83. I haven't seen this change that much in the professional era.

It's a bit like saying the French lose heart if it's put up to them for the first 20 mins.

On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Exiled Gael wrote:
We have played much better against Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in the past two seasons.  I'm not a fan of kicking 44 times in a game, but if the opposition is poor under the high ball then it should be used. We wouldn't do that against the Australians for instance.  Folau would be laughing.  Unless that's the plan.  Make him hysterical and hyperventilate until he passes out.

You reckon?

March 1st 2015 v England. With 59% Possession Ireland kick the ball 38 times, run it 135 times. (Goode returns for 135m)
November 22nd 2014. With 45% possession Ireland kick the ball 34 times and run it 96. (Folau returns for 67m)

LondonTiger wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:
We have played much better against Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in the past two seasons.  I'm not a fan of kicking 44 times in a game, but if the opposition is poor under the high ball then it should be used. We wouldn't do that against the Australians for instance.  Folau would be laughing.  Unless that's the plan.  Make him hysterical and hyperventilate until he passes out.

You reckon?

March 1st 2015 v England. With 59% Possession Ireland kick the ball 38 times, run it 135 times. (Goode returns for 135m)
November 22nd 2014. With 45% possession Ireland kick the ball 34 times and run it 96. (Folau returns for 67m)

Thanks for doing that for me, Tiger. I was thinking about it but got lazy

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Yeah he is miniscule at 6'2 and 94Kilos..

LondonTiger wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:
We have played much better against Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in the past two seasons.  I'm not a fan of kicking 44 times in a game, but if the opposition is poor under the high ball then it should be used. We wouldn't do that against the Australians for instance.  Folau would be laughing.  Unless that's the plan.  Make him hysterical and hyperventilate until he passes out.

You reckon?

March 1st 2015 v England. With 59% Possession Ireland kick the ball 38 times, run it 135 times. (Goode returns for 135m)
November 22nd 2014. With 45% possession Ireland kick the ball 34 times and run it 96. (Folau returns for 67m)

Hmmmmm interesting. Thanks for that. I thought we kicked 44 times today, but no matter. Those stats are interesting and not what I expected.

Delighted with the step up in intensity at the breakdown we showed, improvement in back play and halfbacks kicking game supreme... all in all, a very satisfactory day. Just disappointing we lifted the foot off the gas, lost the last quarter for the second game in a row.

We're a very hard team to play against now. The whole pack look capable of getting over the ball with the exception of Toner perhaps. We really did well today at the breakdown.

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Yeah he is miniscule at 6'2 and 94Kilos..

Pah thats tiny compared to the Norths, Bowes, Trimbles and Cuthberts of this world.

On a serious note - I didn't realize he was that big, has he recently bulked up, he has always looked slight and wirey to me.  Maybe my eyes

...its the turned down socks.  It makes him laddish and impish looking.  

Kinda like Madigan's biggish head...makes him look like a leprechaun.

By the way folks, looks like Sexton is grand.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3820_34398,00.html

...not all so certain yet.   That was a TV interview and Schmidt was doing his face twitching and grimacing as he was explaining - hinting at an attitude of 'we'll see in the next few days and get more clarity'

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Yeah he is miniscule at 6'2 and 94Kilos..

Pah thats tiny compared to the Norths, Bowes, Trimbles and Cuthberts of this world.

On a serious note - I didn't realize he was that big, has he recently bulked up, he has always looked slight and wirey to me.  Maybe my eyes

er...a certain spectacle company are giving free eye-tests lately...

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Yeah he is miniscule at 6'2 and 94Kilos..

Pah thats tiny compared to the Norths, Bowes, Trimbles and Cuthberts of this world.

On a serious note - I didn't realize he was that big, has he recently bulked up, he has always looked slight and wirey to me.  Maybe my eyes

er...a certain spectacle company are giving free eye-tests lately...

Thanks, but I'm going with Fly's theory that its the socks around the ankles which has deceived me.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How can people still be calling for Earls after the match last night? He yet again demonstrated that he can almost never take the right option when he failed to put ROM in for a simply try against Glasgow in the first half.

I thought Payne had his best game yet and is at least a very solid option at 13. The player that people should be calling for is Fitzy; to come in for Jones. He's been Leinster's best player all season.

He scored a try later (calling for the ball). Quite simply you need someone to be making good linebreaks. Not all of them are going to work out (though in this case I believe that ROM may have overrun him (something Luke Fitz was always doing).

Anyone else notice that Schmidt always encourages players to come inside in situations like that. Jared Payne did exactly the same thing when he failed to score against Italy

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

Yeah he is miniscule at 6'2 and 94Kilos..

Pah thats tiny compared to the Norths, Bowes, Trimbles and Cuthberts of this world.

On a serious note - I didn't realize he was that big, has he recently bulked up, he has always looked slight and wirey to me.  Maybe my eyes

er...a certain spectacle company are giving free eye-tests lately...

Thanks, but I'm going with Fly's theory that its the socks around the ankles which has deceived me.  

cometh the socks cometh the man...or something like that.

Just laughing at a comment by I think an English guy on a comments section beneath a Telegraph article.
He's saying England's gameplan seemed to be twofold.  1: Kick to Zebo.  And 2: Kick to Zebo

So take a bow Irish 606ers.  You played your official part in Schmidtactics and raised so many doubts about Zebo over the last few months/years that Lancaster must have bought it that he was a dud.

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

The team has scored three tries in three games and you think Ireland haven't missed him? Trimble's great strength that Joe unlocked was his ability in midfield. He was a centre and still has those instincts, so the lines he was running as a roaming centre caused havoc in opposition defences. Zebo has improved his all round work rate in defence but Earls must be putting pressure on him for a start on the wing.

Schmidt doesn't see Earls as a winger - he sees him as a centre.

Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Trimble wouldn't be much of a fullback and he is just about adequate with kicking the ball.

Can someone respond to me on this one then. Bowe. Why is his decision almost always now to tap back a ball he rises into the air for?

Are those his instructions?

Surely a few attempts at putting two hands in the air for a catch rather than a back slap might be more successful - as two hands have a better chance of making contact with the ball than one.

It's a bit of a lotto what he's doing of late and they're not always coming off. But when he attempts them he can be in some nice areas of the field for the team to thrive better on a collection and recycle out the back.

Sin é wrote:Schmidt doesn't see Earls as a winger - he sees him as a centre.

Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Is the player's award for most improved player or just considered best player?

The Great Aukster wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:On the subject of wingers - Zebo has developed a wonderful work ethic about him.  He is constantly looking for work, constantly hitting rucks and constantly making tackles that you would think him far too slight to make.  Hes been our best wing thus far, although Bowe hasn't had much in the way of opportunity given the sort of game we are playing.  Trimble was our best player last season but we haven't really missed him.

The team has scored three tries in three games and you think Ireland haven't missed him? Trimble's great strength that Joe unlocked was his ability in midfield. He was a centre and still has those instincts, so the lines he was running as a roaming centre caused havoc in opposition defences. Zebo has improved his all round work rate in defence but Earls must be putting pressure on him for a start on the wing.

But isn't much of this down to game plan?  Bowe is always used in that way as well, hitting hard angles in midfield, we are seeing very little of it from him thus far.  There was an attempt at today when Sexton flicked it inside to Bowe on the charge and Bowe knocked it on.  If Trimble was available he'd still be starting for me, my comment about not missing him was really that Zebo has done a great job.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Schmidt doesn't see Earls as a winger - he sees him as a centre.

Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Is the player's award for most improved player or just considered best player?

It can be anything. Its Player's Player of the Year Award. Its not Player's Best Player of the Year Award.

Just think of it like this - was Trimble better than Sexton last season (who was shortlisted for world player of the year?). Was he better than Murray?

Sin é wrote:Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Trimble wouldn't be much of a fullback and he is just about adequate with kicking the ball.

That'll be why Joe used him on the chase all the time rather than staying in the back field. Zebo must be in with a shout this year of most improved player?

I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Part of the thing I'd say about Trimble was that he is 30 now. Zebo & Co are very young and are on a natural learning curve with their first few caps.

trinble was good last year. But just to remind myself I took a look at his trys..one was all about Murray, the second was a walk in and the third was all about Bod.Cant seem Trimble getting ahead of Zebo Bowe, Earls or anyone else at this stage...

Trimble was Irelands best player - that's why he got the award. waffle waffle waffle....

Massive win in the context of the championship. Still not hitting top gear but that's not a bad thing, given there are bigger games too come.

As expected if our pack matched England's we'd be too good across the park, disappointed we didn't win by more but England are seriously tough and don't roll over under Lancaster.

Superlative defence again but things really nosedived when Sexton went off... we desperately need him to be fit against Wales, which will be an even bigger challenge than this.
     
One in the eye for the Payne/Henshaw haters...

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Schmidt doesn't see Earls as a winger - he sees him as a centre.

Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Is the player's award for most improved player or just considered best player?

It can be anything. Its Player's Player of the Year Award. Its not Player's Best Player of the Year Award.

Just think of it like this - was Trimble better than Sexton last season (who was shortlisted for world player of the year?).  Was he better than Murray?

Well 'Best' itself is always merely an opinion anyway. Why did the players vote for him? Because they wanted to patronise him as being the 'most improved' player? I think he made an impression on their memories and won it because he's the player they thought about when asked to pick 'Player of the Year'.

[quote="SecretFly"]

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Schmidt doesn't see Earls as a winger - he sees him as a centre.

Trimble wasn't Ireland's best player last season - he was Ireland's most improved player though - that is why he got the Player's Award.

Is the player's award for most improved player or just considered best player?

It can be anything. Its Player's Player of the Year Award. Its not Player's Best Player of the Year Award.

Just think of it like this - was Trimble better than Sexton last season (who was shortlisted for world player of the year?).  Was he better than Murray?

Well 'Best' itself is always merely an opinion anyway./quote]

What about Rory Best - Best by name Best by nature

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.

Interesting that some pundit (cant remember who) signalled Rory Best and POM as menOTM. When you look at the game the amount of punishment they both take at the breakdown is unbelievable in terms of hits.

Also Best's throwing at the lineout was exemplary..