Ireland v England - Post-match warmdown

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Ireland 19 - 9 England

A continuation of the match thread.

Be respectful please. Your mothers would be proud.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

What about Rory Best - Best by name Best by nature

[/quote]

Ah auld Rory. What a warrior. Coming off the field plumb knackered having given the full lash of his whip again. It would be wonderful for Ireland to achieve a few more things now for players like him to remember their careers by

ME-109 wrote:Interesting that some pundit (cant remember who) signalled Rory Best and POM as menOTM. When you look at the game the amount of punishment they both take at the breakdown is unbelievable in terms of hits.

Also Best's throwing at the lineout was exemplary..

Yep - his turnover ability in on a par with most top opensides, he scrummaged well, nailed his darts and is a solid carrier. Also a leader in the front row at this stage and has been Ulster captain many times. He's instrumental to Ireland at the minute. Cronin is a great option off the bench for his dynamism but I don't think there is anyone really close to the 2 shirt at the minute.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Dont disagree with you much Sin but while Henshaw gave us some good go forward boshing up the middle today Payne did some good work as well with less ball. Also Henshaws missed tackle count would be a concern..(put it this way if Zebo missed as many he would be getting crucified at the moment)

Both were brilliant...as was O'Connell. Huge games but think Henshaw deserves the plaudits and hype was good for motm.

Tommy O'Donnell had a great game and so did Jordi Murphy, especially give the context of their envolvment.

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Dont disagree with you much Sin but while Henshaw gave us some good go forward boshing up the middle today Payne did some good work as well with less ball. Also Henshaws missed tackle count would be a concern..(put it this way if Zebo missed as many he would be getting crucified at the moment)

Its not such a big deal to miss a few tackles in the 12 channel - usually plenty of cover behind. He did have to make an awful lot of tackles. Further out, they would have built up a head of steam and could cause real damage.

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Dont disagree with you much Sin but while Henshaw gave us some good go forward boshing up the middle today Payne did some good work as well with less ball. Also Henshaws missed tackle count would be a concern..(put it this way if Zebo missed as many he would be getting crucified at the moment)

Some stats suggest Payne made 7/missed 1 and Henshaw made 14/missed 6. That seems to be the highest tackle count in the team? - and maybe forgivable that he's young and human and misses some of that high count.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Dont disagree with you much Sin but while Henshaw gave us some good go forward boshing up the middle today Payne did some good work as well with less ball. Also Henshaws missed tackle count would be a concern..(put it this way if Zebo missed as many he would be getting crucified at the moment)

Its not such a big deal to miss a few tackles in the 12 channel - usually plenty of cover behind. He did have to make an awful lot of tackles. Further out, they would have built up a head of steam and could cause real damage.

True...was only using the tackle count to highlight the disparities in how players are viewed. I would like to see Earls with Henshaw for something like the Scottish game but dont think it will happen. I do think if Keith can keep fit he will definitely be in the WC squad.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Bollix - both are doing the job asked...and way more... typical Irish negativity is looking for the flaws in an embryonic partnership that shouldn't work...but is...and even more typical Irish xenophobia is scapegoting Payne for the flaws that don't really exist other than in the indoctrinated negative Irish mind.

If it runs like a Frak duck and tackles like a Frak duck, its probably a Frak duck that will win the grandslam and still get no Frak thanks from the geese.

Henshaw was huge in defence. The missed tackle count is only due to the fact he was often the first defender chasing over-hit kicks.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd say Robbie Henshaw should get it next season - he is only 21 and he has been terrific.

Agree - sensational player....player of the tournament so far - bar none....

I don't care what anyone says and... no one likes a an Ulster Kiwi it seems...ask Isaac Boss... but Payne has been brilliant, he and young Henshaw have made Bods retirement irrelevant.  

Henshaw is carrying Payne (who has been defensively excellent). Just nothing going forward.

Bollix - both are doing the job asked...and way more... typical Irish negativity is looking for the flaws in an embryonic partnership that shouldn't work...but is...and even more typical Irish xenophobia is scapegoting Payne for the flaws that don't really exist other than in the indoctrinated negative Irish mind.

If it runs like a Frak duck and tackles like a Frak duck, its probably a Frak duck that will win the grandslam and still get no Frak thanks from the geese.

Is that like the old joke of two ducks flying over belfast...

Quack quack says one
I'm going as quack as I can says the other...

Balls.ie's ratings -

15. Rob Kearney 7
Probably his best game this Six Nations. Chased kicks well, and always took the right option. So close with a long range drop goal that would have capped off his performance well.

14. Tommy Bowe 6.5
His pace to cover Ben Youngs after Billy Vunipola broke showed he’s still got it. Didn’t get much opportunity with ball in hand, but was always in support of key attacking movements.

13. Jared Payne 7
His best performance in a green jersey. Constant worker, shoving Goode out early was good, and made a few half breaks.

12. Robbie Henshaw 9
An outstanding performance. Made some big defensive interventions in the first half totally 13 tackles, and continually gives Ireland go forward ball. His leap for the try was brilliant, and the finish was amazing. Six defenders beaten. SIX!

11. Simon Zebo 8
The pressure from Keith Earls and Luke Fitzgerald is growing, but Zebo really stepped up. He was everywhere, especially in the first half. Three defenders beaten, an offload, a turnover, illustrated how good he was with ball in hand.

10. Johnny Sexton 8
Controlled the game for the 50 minutes he was on. It was billed as the battle of the outhalves, but Ford didn’t get into the game while Sexton made the most of his armchair ride. That smash on Ford was fantastic.

9. Conor Murray 8
Grew into the game, and ensured that when Sexton went off that Ireland didn’t relinquish control. His kick for Henshaw’s try was pinpoint.

1. Jack McGrath 7
Part of a strong front row performance that more than achieved parity at the scrum. Vindicated Schmidt’s faith in him.

2. Rory Best 8
The real Rory Best finally turned up after two uncharacteristically quiet games to open the Six Nations. Best’s workrate was fantastic, making 9 tackles and being a nuisance at the breakdown. He really stepped up today.

3. Mike Ross 7.5
Effectively denied England their biggest strength by overturning Marler’s perceived advantage. For that alone he will be incredibly happy. The first scrum after he came off showed how well he played,

4. Devin Toner 8
What remains to be said about Devin Toner. Stolen lineouts, forced turnovers and vital cleanouts that retained possession when England looked to steal. Is feeling pressure from Henderson but continues to answer his critics.

5. Paul O’Connell 7

6. Peter O’Mahony 6.5
A little quiet compared to his usual performances, was unlucky at the breakdown several times but constantly slowed down the English ball. Was more prominent with ball in hand than usual with 11 carries for 16 metres.

7. Sean O’Brien 7
Was having a very good game before he went off with a suspected concussion. It’s a credit to the rest of the team that his absence wasn’t felt more.

8. Jordi Murphy 8
The reason O’Brien wasn’t missed was because Jordi Murphy announced himself on the international stage. Earned some huge turnover penalties at the breakdown, and played more like the openside flanker he is. Beastly performance.

http://balls.ie/rugby/239483-ireland-player-ratings-v-england/

theslosty wrote:Henshaw was huge in defence. The missed tackle count is only due to the fact he was often the first defender chasing over-hit kicks.

Mostly correct but there were one or two poor enough Rob Kearney like attempts....

Peter O'Mahoney 6.5.....balls.ie sounds about right for those figures...

Should also include TOD:

20. Tommy O’Donnell 7
Topped Ireland’s tackle count with 13, with none missed. Quietly effective.

Injury status on :
Sexton (hamstring) hope it was only a twinge
SOB (concussion) looks to be ok but will have to go through protocols
Payne (head) no concussion. Looks like he's good to go for Cardiff (sorry about that )

Blanko wrote:Injury status on :
Sexton (hamstring) hope it was only a twinge
SOB (concussion) looks to be ok but will have to go through protocols
Payne (head) no concussion. Looks like he's good to go for Cardiff (sorry about that )

Healy (animal) but there is no curing that.

Kearney 6
Bowe 6
Payne 6
Henshaw 9
Zebo 7
Sexton 7, Madigan 5
Murray 8
Murphy 6
SOB 7, TOD 8
POM 8
POC 7
Toner 7
Ross 7
Best 8
McGrath 7

Just a question to you Ireland fans, are you really that lacking in outside centres that you have to play Jared Payne, who looks distinctly average at international level

rugbygod2 wrote:Just a question to you Ireland fans, are you really that lacking in outside centres that you have to play Jared Payne, who looks distinctly average at international level

Its certainly a debate raging within Irish rugby at the minute.  There are several factors to be taken into consideration.

1 - Hes not Irish and that really doesn't sit well with some.  Then again just about every country in the world has players in their squad born outside of said country.
2 - Ulster fans will tell you hes not even the best 13 in Ulster (Darren Cave) never mind Ireland but is in fact an outstanding 15.
3 - If you look at the performances of all the 13s thus far in the 2015 6N, absolutely nobody stands out and Payne's brick wall defence should be noted, he has been as good as any other 13 thus far.
4 - The game plan Ireland are playing with their centres is not expansive, Schmidt is looking for competence and solidity rather than daring and flair.
5 - He only has as many international caps as you could count with the fingers on one hand, nobody is a world beater that earlier into their international careers, except Brian O'Driscoll

Agree with a lot of what has been said already. Well played Ireland. When Henshaw got his try, I suddenly had a flash of Tony Stanger going over in the right hand corner at Murrayfield in 1990.

That wasn't as bad as the loss to Wales two years ago but we showed a similar lack of leadership. That was one of Robshaw's worst games in an England shirt, both as player and captain.

There were a few odd decisions yesterday. Joubert signalled a penalty for us in a kickable position and we ended up working a Ford drop goal. Maybe it was nice for him to get into the game, but it's more normal to try and use advantage to engineer a try, on the basis that three points is already pretty much in the bag.

If the drop goal was a conscious attempt to get us on the scoreboard, then it makes it all the more puzzling we went for a lineout rather than kick for the posts a few minutes later.

Shortly after that, Ireland had us under the cosh again, and we won a penalty in our 22. For some reason, Ford played very safe and his kick barely took us towards the 10 metre line. That made little sense to me. We'd already lost two lineouts, so couldn't be sure of retaining possession. Also, if we ended up clearing upfield from there, we would either give away the lineout put-in, or kick to their back three. Ford could have put us on half-way without taking any real risk.

I can understand taking a shot at goal later in the match to move us up to six points. We were three scores behind at the time, so it wasn't the worst decision. The next penalty shot was more puzzling. If we weren't in control of the game, then three points didn't put any pressure on Ireland. If we felt we had them where we wanted them, then we ought to have tried for more.

The mistakes were frustrating. I half expected to see a shot of Lancaster pounding his leg with his fist, as Johnson did in 2009 after Danny Care's yellow card against Ireland.

England have become the kings of accidental offside, which is a combination of poor game awareness, and players not knowing where their team mates are. The latter point is even more evident when someone makes a break. It's hard to tell whether the man with the ball runs away from everyone and gets isolated, or if our support work is substandard. Probably a bit of both, with more blame attached to our support.

England was simply horrible in this match their discipline and handling skills leaves a lot to be desired

First time on the boards since the match so firstly, congratulations to Ireland.

It was a tactically astute performance and most importantly in a big game your key players stepped up. Best, POC, POM, Murray and Sexton all stood out from the experienced core. Then Henshaw excelled as a youngster in a key position. Not to mention McGrath and Ross acquitting themselves excellently at set piece and around the park.

For England it was so disappointing as it was such simple errors. Our dealing with a high ball barrage we knew was coming came up continually second best. Our kicking and chasing was appalling with us seemingly going in with a tactic of holding back on the chase and not looking to compete in the air.

Most frustratingly our discipline in simple areas was poor with so many stupid penalties given away and extremely poor ball retention throughout. Although credit must also be given to Ireland on the later point given that they were excellent at the breakdown throughout.

Concentrating on the next 2 games we need a leader back in the second row with any of Lawes, Launchbury and Parling sorely missed yesterday up against O'Connell. Launchbury is out for the tournament but Lawes and Parling are both back playing again and if they come through this weekend well I'd be looking at one of them for a starting place come the 14th.

As a neutral this was an entertaining match, very well controlled by Ireland who never looked like losing. Not sure why some of the English back have been highlighted because England lost this for a few simple reasons. They didn't control the territory, breakdown or set piece and made way too many errors. The Ireland half backs played beautifully and the pack out muscled the English.

Not sure why with 20 to go SL didn't use Cipriani? Ireland had lost Sexton and were relaxing a bit early. I think he missed a trick there.

Goode marking the ball behind his own line was pretty stupid I thought. I think he was quite poor. Haskell was quiet too.

I think Cole may get cited for leading with his head. Hard to prove but it looked dodgy. Nice to concede no tries again. The game went pretty much exactly to plan.

Ireland are playing some great rugby under Schmidt, but so far this championship they haven't faced a decent goal kicker.

It will be an interesting contest in a fortnights time.

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are playing some great rugby under Schmidt, but so far this championship they haven't faced a decent goal kicker.

It will be an interesting contest in a fortnights time.

Really? They faced a dcent kicker yesterday, just didn't give him any chances.

Once again I feel as if I have to explain myself again on here to fools who cannot read and simply try to put me in a corner as a hater of a player born in New Zealand playing for Ireland. Nothing could be further from the truth, I actually rate him as a player just not at 13. I am not saying he is not been solid but he has not looked good going forward (a 13's job) at this level. Defensively sound, but going forward and offloading and awareness seems to be something he is not that good at, that's the 15 in him.

I simply feel that he is more suited to the 15 role than that of 13 and that there are 2 possibly 3 players more suited to that 13 role. Earls being, in my opinion, the best option followed closely by Cave (you know that player that plays 13 for Ulster and Payne at 15) who has been better than Payne at club level at 13.

I do not want him out the squad but feel that he would be better suited to Ireland being on the bench in place of Felix Jones as he has the ability to cover more positions than Jones, it was highlighted yesterday with the injuries in the game that Ireland needed a player that could cover more positions in the backline than Jones affords.

I have no issues with Payne himself, these are just my opinions so I wish certain posters would get off their high horses and accuse me of 'Hating' him simply because he was born in New Zealand.

offload wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are playing some great rugby under Schmidt, but so far this championship they haven't faced a decent goal kicker.

It will be an interesting contest in a fortnights time.

Really?  They faced a dcent kicker yesterday, just didn't give him any chances.

Ford is a good kicker and it was his chasers that were letting him down. I thought that Ford, in open play, made some very good attacking kicks but the English chasers looked very slow and sluggish to get to the ball and put the Ireland back 3 under pressure. At once stage, he put a kick just outside the Irish 22 which Kearney did not take cleanly and if the English were on the money with their chasing, could have turned Kearney over. When you have your number 8 as the first player at the end of kicks in open play then your backs are not doing their job.

I thought that Ford played very well yesterday, outshone by Sexton but there is no shame in that.

Wales have an excellent kick and chase approach and will certainly put the Irish defence under more pressure than the English did.

Cole "leading with the head"? Really?

He had the ball. He can lead with the head as much as he wants. Poor technique by best in the tackle is to blame for that KO.

Ford was put under a lot of pressure by Sexton with his kicks and also the Ireland back row.

Biggar is the 2nd best OH in the 6 nations though so that will be an interesting battle.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:How can people still be calling for Earls after the match last night? He yet again demonstrated that he can almost never take the right option when he failed to put ROM in for a simply try against Glasgow in the first half.

I thought Payne had his best game yet and is at least a very solid option at 13. The player that people should be calling for is Fitzy; to come in for Jones. He's been Leinster's best player all season.

He scored a try later (calling for the ball). Quite simply you need someone to be making good linebreaks. Not all of them are going to work out (though in this case I believe that ROM may have overrun him (something Luke Fitz was always doing).

Anyone else notice that Schmidt always encourages players to come inside in situations like that. Jared Payne did exactly the same thing when he failed to score against Italy

Exactly, he is making the breaks. For the record, I thought that ROM was not calling as loud as he could have in that move. Earls could have, maybe should have, seen him but he is getting into those positions at ease. He has been making some excellent breaks, some excellent offloads and as for his try... What more can be said. That was a piece of skill that cant be taught, sublime.

quinsforever wrote:Cole "leading with the head"? Really?

He had the ball. He can lead with the head as much as he wants. Poor technique by best in the tackle is to blame for that KO.

If Healy did the same to Cole I guarentee half of England would have their knickers in a twist over it again. He will probably get away with it but it was dodgy to say the least.

quinsforever wrote:Cole "leading with the head"? Really?

He had the ball. He can lead with the head as much as he wants. Poor technique by best in the tackle is to blame for that KO.

I think that he dropped his shoulder for the impact which automatically makes him lead with the head. Normally not a problem if, as you say, Best was going to tackle with a good technique. Hell of a hit though, I sure would not want to have an impact with Coles's head

Nacho Jones really? I thought Ford was very poor - simply because he failed to give England any structure or control. Complete contrast in 10s - Sexton was commanding and marshalling his troops whilst Ford lacked control and didn't help England gain any foothold.

Ford is an inexperienced player so being outclassed by Sexton isn't too much of a surprise but England needed some control from their 9 and 10 (I know the platform was poor but with the ball they had they didn't make the right decisions in my opinion).

Repeatedly kicking to Zebo was a tactic that failed but there was no change in the plan.

England didn't regain one restart did they? Also no pressure was put on Zebo.

Ireland were pretty one dimensional to be honest but good enough to beat an appalling England performance.

England had a poor set piece, got beaten at the breakdown, gave away a laughable amount of penalties and made a large amount of handling errors, poor kick chase, poor decision making. Ireland should have hammered England to be honest.

That's the worst performance I have seen from England probably since that 30-3 loss to Wales.

GunsGerms wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Cole "leading with the head"? Really?

He had the ball. He can lead with the head as much as he wants. Poor technique by best in the tackle is to blame for that KO.

If Healy did the same to Cole I guarentee half of England would have their knickers in a twist over it again. He will probably get away with it but it was dodgy to say the least.

I actually think that this was unintentional. The Basteraud tackle on Sexton (the second one) in the French test still appears to be intentional in my opinion.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Interesting that some pundit (cant remember who) signalled Rory Best and POM as menOTM. When you look at the game the amount of punishment they both take at the breakdown is unbelievable in terms of hits.

Also Best's throwing at the lineout was exemplary..

Yep - his turnover ability in on a par with most top opensides, he scrummaged well, nailed his darts and is a solid carrier.  Also a leader in the front row at this stage and has been Ulster captain many times.  He's instrumental to Ireland at the minute.  Cronin is a great option off the bench for his dynamism but I don't think there is anyone really close to the 2 shirt at the minute.

I would probably give Best the motm... I thought that was one of his best games in green. He was everywhere and you have to admire the players who take it upon themselves to truck up the rubbish slow ball again and again, their bodies must be battered

beshocked,

I doubt that any 10 could have brought structure to that English team yesterday with their forwards completely on the back foot.

The kicking to Zebo could very well have been an option but as I said, the chasing from England was dire, not Ford's fault.

Personally, I thought that he showed some very good intent and was very keen to keep the ball alive and get England on the front foot. For a period during the first half, he was doing just that. I just don't think that he can be held accountable for the poor chasing of his kicks and Englands indiscipline.

After a day to get over my disappointment at England losing this one, here are my thoughts:

England lost because they 1) they gave away too many penalties, and 2) make some crucial bad decisions. Very simple. 13 - 8 pens against England. And Ireland's only try came from an excellent opportunistic penalty advantage.

Ireland did not win because of their kicking game (38 from hand vs 23 for England, although interestingly both teams kicked 33% of their possession away), and England did not lose because they kicked long and didnt really chase (preferring to be organised for the counter-bomb. It was a poor decision not to chase the England kicks imo, but had it worked we would all be saying how clever Bomber is.

Decision-making.
- Burrell not passing the ball in our 22 (when we had an overlap but he had to give it immediately), getting wrapped up and conceding pen in front of posts
- Ford attempting to run it out of England's 22, leading to an accidental offside after he got smashed by Sexton and i think it was JJ knocked on
- Robshaw not taking the points in the first half, and compounding that by not going front or middle on the lineout to secure ball. I understand the ref had just warned Ireland, so Robshaw's decision was not terrible, but by not securing lineout ball it was made to look so.

Ireland.
Were solid, if unspectacular. Executed their gameplan well, but the media and several others are getting a bit overexcited by the effectiveness of Ireland's aerial bombardment. Watson almost scoring a length of the field try after fielding a kick that was just a bit too long, show the dangers in this approach.

Sexton was imperious. Love watching him manage games.

Irish pack matched England, but i dont buy into them bossing the breakdown. Some excellent lineout steals at key moments however were crucial, POM and Toner working very cleverly here.

Ireland were definitely worth the win. But it is no coincidence that the England players who made the poorest decisions, are those whose places are being fiercely contested by returning favourites of Bomber...Attwood and Haskell conceded 5 penalties between them, and Goode looked completely out of his depth. Calling a mark in the dead ball area was quite simply brainless. They all three were overeager and adrenaline seemed to overwhelm their critical faculties at key moments.

I am never glad to see England lose, but i do think there will be good lessons to learn from this match.

GunsGerms wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Cole "leading with the head"? Really?

He had the ball. He can lead with the head as much as he wants. Poor technique by best in the tackle is to blame for that KO.

If Healy did the same to Cole I guarentee half of England would have their knickers in a twist over it again. He will probably get away with it but it was dodgy to say the least.

hardly. i would record it and show it to the lads i teach as an example of how not to tackle. irrespective who did it.

What's happened to Danny Care, as for me Ben Youngs was dire yesterday. (as were most to be honest, but still we can't all blame Goode)

Ireland back to 3rd in the world rankings on 86.38 points. England on 85.11.

We cant catch SA during the 6 nations as they are on 88.23.

beshocked wrote: Ireland should have hammered England to be honest.

That's the worst performance I have seen from England probably since that 30-3 loss to Wales.

I agree, NZ would have put 40+ on us.

Nachos Jones wrote:

offload wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Ireland are playing some great rugby under Schmidt, but so far this championship they haven't faced a decent goal kicker.

It will be an interesting contest in a fortnights time.

Really?  They faced a dcent kicker yesterday, just didn't give him any chances.

Ford is a good kicker and it was his chasers that were letting him down. I thought that Ford, in open play, made some very good attacking kicks but the English chasers looked very slow and sluggish to get to the ball and put the Ireland back 3 under pressure. At once stage, he put a kick just outside the Irish 22 which Kearney did not take cleanly and if the English were on the money with their chasing, could have turned Kearney over. When you have your number 8 as the first player at the end of kicks in open play then your backs are not doing their job.

I thought that Ford played very well yesterday, outshone by Sexton but there is no shame in that.

Wales have an excellent kick and chase approach and will certainly put the Irish defence under more pressure than the English did.

There were no chasers. That was a huge problem. There was no pressure on the Irish and we completely failed to out muscle them like we usually do.

Nacho Jones maybe not but Ford is a small man who was made to look even smaller. He was man handled by Sexton at one point. Also you can't say that he kicked particulary well.

Someone needs to take control and tell the rest of the team to buck up irrelevant whether that's the captain or 10.

What baffles me most is that England knew that Ireland were absolutely going to bombard the back three but had no answer.

No effort made to conduct a credible kick and chase.

Even if your pack is performing poorly a good kick to the corner can give you confidence - Nowell's kick did for example and it led to 3 points.

beshocked, maybe we a things totally different but Ford, in my opinion, was kicking well enough and making clear signals to his backs to chase. There was just little or no commitment in the backs chasing his kicks.

Billy V was the main chaser but he is not as quick as the backs. The back 3 from England looked poor in both attacking the ball and defending the Irish kicks (aside from a few decent runs) and that to me is not the fault of Ford.

quinsforever wrote:After a day to get over my disappointment at England losing this one, here are my thoughts:

England lost because they 1) they gave away too many penalties, and 2) make some crucial bad decisions. Very simple. 13 - 8 pens against England. And Ireland's only try came from an excellent opportunistic penalty advantage.

Ireland did not win because of their kicking game (38 from hand vs 23 for England, although interestingly both teams kicked 33% of their possession away), and England did not lose because they kicked long and didnt really chase (preferring to be organised for the counter-bomb. It was a poor decision not to chase the England kicks imo, but had it worked we would all be saying how clever Bomber is.

Decision-making.
- Burrell not passing the ball in our 22 (when we had an overlap but he had to give it immediately), getting wrapped up and conceding pen in front of posts
- Ford attempting to run it out of England's 22, leading to an accidental offside after he got smashed by Sexton and i think it was JJ knocked on
- Robshaw not taking the points in the first half, and compounding that by not going front or middle on the lineout to secure ball. I understand the ref had just warned Ireland, so Robshaw's decision was not terrible, but by not securing lineout ball it was made to look so.

Ireland.
Were solid, if unspectacular. Executed their gameplan well, but the media and several others are getting a bit overexcited by the effectiveness of Ireland's aerial bombardment. Watson almost scoring a length of the field try after fielding a kick that was just a bit too long, show the dangers in this approach.

Sexton was imperious. Love watching him manage games.

Irish pack matched England, but i dont buy into them bossing the breakdown. Some excellent lineout steals at key moments however were crucial, POM and Toner working very cleverly here.

Ireland were definitely worth the win. But it is no coincidence that the England players who made the poorest decisions, are those whose places are being fiercely contested by returning favourites of Bomber...Attwood and Haskell conceded 5 penalties between them, and Goode looked completely out of his depth. Calling a mark in the dead ball area was quite simply brainless. They all three were overeager and adrenaline seemed to overwhelm their critical faculties at key moments.

I am never glad to see England lose, but i do think there will be good lessons to learn from this match.

It is never just one thing, but Ireland's kicking game was a major contribution, not least because it made up a very large part of what they did when they had the ball. Its like the time a couple of years back when we just mashed the Irish scrum all day. It wasn't pretty at all, but it was very effective so we kept doing it.

About the only decent possession we got was from returning Irish kicks, but so often Irish put pressure on our catchers and we did not put pressure on them when we kicked. Added to the excellent Irish rucking a lot of players were under a great deal of pressure, and they didnt perform. These include Hartley, Attwood, Burrell, the whole back row (yes, even mr. consistant Robshaw himself) and Watson. Ford did OK within limits, those being that he seemed to be following a set tactic with the restarts, which was not working (was hopeless) and didnt change them. JJ got very few chances. Nowell was industrious and Goode was, well, Goode. We did miss May, because he chases kicks very well and nobody did yesterday.

And Goode being Goode. Took high balls well kicked OK, nice little run under his own posts under tremendous pressure, but as has been mentioned elsewhere he really seems to lack speed and strength. When Brown gets the ball and runs back you know he is going to cause trouble and give the forwards a target. When its Goode he jinks then runs into the nearest defender and bounces off. I had hoped, if we had to play him, that this might be the right game for him. It was, to a degree, but it also showed why we really need to look elsewhere in Brown (and Foden's) absence.

beshocked wrote:Nacho Jones maybe not but Ford is a small man who was made to look even smaller. He was man handled by Sexton at one point. Also you can't say that he kicked particulary well.

Someone needs to take control and tell the rest of the team to buck up irrelevant whether that's the captain or 10.

What baffles me most is that England knew that Ireland were absolutely going to bombard the back three but had no answer.

No effort made to conduct a credible kick and chase.

Even if your pack is performing poorly a good kick to the corner can give you confidence - Nowell's kick did for example and it led to 3 points.

Yes. Its not like we didnt expect it. Given those circumstances it was a hugely depressing afternoon.

Nacho Jones compare the height that Sexton had on his kicks to Ford. I am not sure that Ford gave his players enough time - certainly at the kick offs. Both kicker and chasers should be blamed - not just one or the other.

Both parties need to be on the same wavelength. Far too often it seemed like the communication was very poor - the halfbacks have to take some responsbility for that.

I do like a laugh on a monday morning and the critics of Jared Payne (the usual suspects by the way) are giving me plenty to smile about. Payne, whilst not setting the world on fire as we are used to with out 13 shirt, has been more solid that I expected him to be and hasn't been found wanting. However, the fact that he isn't even the best 13 at Ulster still knarls me and I can't help but feel that, as has been said, he would be better utilised off the bench which may even allow us to see him at 15 where he has looked world class.

Anyway, onwards to retaining the title and upwards to the RWC