Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread VII

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Ye Olde Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
https://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
https://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
https://www.606v2.com/t56913p950-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo

A. Edinburgh
   

1. League Results

Fri 5 Sep: Munster Rugby 13 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 12 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 13 - 14 Connacht Rugby

Sun 21 Sep: Ospreys 62 - 13 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 26 Sep: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 20 Scarlets

Fri 3 Oct: Ulster Rugby 30 - 0 Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 11 Oct: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 10 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 31 Oct: Leinster Rugby 33 - 8 Edinburgh Rugby

Sun 23 Nov: Edinburgh Rugby 28 - 13 Cardiff Blues

Sat 29 Nov: Zebre 18 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 19 Dec: Edinburgh Rugby 48 - 0 Benetton Treviso

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby - 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Connacht Rugby 13 - 16 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 13 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 24 - 16 Ospreys

Fri 20 Feb: Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 20 Ulster Rugby

Sun 1 Mar: Cardiff Blues 21 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

2. European Results

17/10/14: Bordeaux-Begles 13 - 15 Edinburgh Rugby

24/10/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 17 Lyon

7/12/14: Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 13 London Welsh

14/12/14: London Welsh 6 - 24 Edinburgh Rugby

17/01/2015: Lyon 21 - 19 Edinburgh Rugby

23/01/2015: Edinburgh Rugby 38 - 20 Bordeaux-Begles

B. Glasgow


1. League Results

Sat 6 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 20 Leinster Rugby

Sun 14 Sep: Cardiff Blues 12 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 20 Sep: Newport Gwent Dragons 13 - 33 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 26 Sep: Glasgow Warriors 39 - 21 Connacht Rugby

Sun 5 Oct: Benetton Treviso 23 - 40 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 11 Oct: Ulster Rugby 29 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 31 Oct: Glasgow Warriors 17 - 9 Benetton Treviso

Fri 21 Nov: Scarlets 19 - 9 Glasgow Warriors

Sun 30 Nov: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 15 Newport Gwent Dragons

Sat 20 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 18 Munster Rugby

Sat 27 Dec: Glasgow Warriors 16 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 2 Jan: Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 8 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 9 Jan: Glasgow Warriors 22 - 7 Scarlets

Sun 15 Feb: Zebre 10 - 54 Glasgow Warriors

Sat 21 Feb: Glasgow Warriors 19 - 16 Ospreys

Sat 28 Feb: Munster Rugby 22 - 10 Glasgow Warriors

2. European Results

18/10/14: Glasgow Warriors 37 - 10 Bath Rugby

25/10/14: Montpellier 13 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

7/12/14: Toulouse 19 - 11 Glasgow Warriors

13/12/14: Glasgow Warriors 9 - 12 Toulouse

18/01/2015: Glasgow Warriors 21 - 10 Montpellier

25/01/2015: Bath Rugby 20 - 15 Glasgow Warriors

[funnyExiledScot]

Denton has come back strongly this season and he carried well once more against LI. There's a good strong group of players forming at Edinburgh, and you can see that cohesion in the squad translating into performances on the pitch - particularly the pack.

Just on SH-C, he's another, like Hamish Watson, who has grown an inch taller this season. His performances in recent weeks have been outstanding, and like Watson vs Cowan, I think the tide is turning in the H-C vs Laidlaw contest for the Scotland jersey in favour of the Edinburgh man.

What I would also say is that Scott Steele ran H-C pretty close on Sunday, and I really hope that Glasgow tried to grab Steele before signing Mike Blair.

[jimbopip]

Onto the subject of playing with/against pro players.

Trained with Rob Dewey about 7 or 8 years ago. He played maybe half a season with us at Kirkcaldy.

I was turned into roadkill at just about every collision I had with him (and I'm not exactly a light fellow).

He might have been mince as far as skills are concerned but it's easy to see why some of the bigger units like Dewey, Morrison and Danielli look so impressive at local club level.

They can move at some skelp and seem to break amateur tackles at will. It's when they come up against similar level pros that they look a bit mince.

I've had a theory for a while now that being too big at an early age can actually be detrimental to a players progress. Why bother learning how to swerve, sidestep and generally avoid contact when you can just blast through it? Then after rocketing through the ranks you play at a level where everyone can tackle well, even the midgets like Shane Williams or Finn Russell. I always felt Rob Dewey was an example of this. When he played against teams where he couldn't run through them there seemed to be no plan B for him. I'll stop now before I start bemoaning the fact that players like Phil Bennett, Mike Gibson and John Rutherford would struggle to get contracts in today's game.

What am I saying? There are no players like them they were one offs.

[RDW]

I'm a prime example of that Jimbo - I developed early and was a bit of a man beast as a teenager. As such I would regularly get hatricks in games and didn't have to hone any kind of tackling technique.

Fast forward a few years and I'm only 6ft and 13.5st and one of the smaller players on the pitch. I fully accept that my tackling technique is fairly poor, and I'm certain it's because I never had to learn to do it properly!

[BigGee]

I'm a prime example of that Jimbo - I developed early and was a bit of a man beast as a teenager. As such I would regularly get hatricks in games and didn't have to hone any kind of tackling technique.

Fast forward a few years and I'm only 6ft and 13.5st and one of the smaller players on the pitch. I fully accept that my tackling technique is fairly poor, and I'm certain it's because I never had to learn to do it properly!

How things have changed. When I played regularly 30 odd years ago, I played in the back row and was 6Ft 1 and 12 and a half stone and was considered a decent size. Everybody seems to be bigger these days!

[funnyExiledScot]

To put this in context, Taqele Naiyaravoro is 6ft 5 and 19 stones.....and he's a winger.

[jimbopip]

Lads, let me come out in all my shame....
5ft 9 and 13 and a half stones. And bugger all technique to compensate for my teeniness. Just as well that I am Glaswegian and have innate World Class, and Leadership of course.

[funnyExiledScot]

Lads, let me come out in all my shame....
5ft 9 and 13 and a half stones.  And bugger all technique to compensate for my teeniness. Just as well that I am Glaswegian and have innate World Class, and Leadership of course.

I'm so pleased to hear that you have taken Weegie ruck inspection to Essex!!

[cp10]

Onto the subject of playing with/against pro players.

Trained with Rob Dewey about 7 or 8 years ago. He played maybe half a season with us at Kirkcaldy.

I was turned into roadkill at just about every collision I had with him (and I'm not exactly a light fellow).

He might have been mince as far as skills are concerned but it's easy to see why some of the bigger units like Dewey, Morrison and Danielli look so impressive at local club level.

They can move at some skelp and seem to break amateur tackles at will. It's when they come up against similar level pros that they look a bit mince.

There in lies one of the problems Scottish (and Celtic nations) rugby faces. If you take New Zealand for example, at school level you'll get 10 to 15 guys of Deweys size (maybe not height) playing against each other. Maori kids develop their bulk a lot earlier. This means if you want to be good you have to work on your skills. That's why you see Ben Franks, Whitelock and Read have exceptional skill levels as they've had to develop them to compete. Scottish players like Morrison (even the forwards we produce like Simon Taylor) would have had to work a lot harder to develop to get to the level required if they were in that environment.

[BamBam]

The main advantage the NZ kids have which always seems very sensible to me is that junior rugby is separated by weight rather than age. A fast developing 13 year old will then play against similar sized 16 year olds rather than smashing kids his own age

[cp10]

The main advantage the NZ kids have which always seems very sensible to me is that junior rugby is separated by weight rather than age. A fast developing 13 year old will then play against similar sized 16 year olds rather than smashing kids his own age

I think that would be the ideal solution. It does come with its own draw backs. I asked this to a kiwi-native who coaches minis and u18 in central Scotland. He said it would be a great idea but there aren't the numbers to make it work. Kids also want to play with their mates so if they develop at different levels they'll be separated. Part of the whole ethos is to make it enjoyable.

[funnyExiledScot]

There is both a quanity and a quality issue a school/youth rugby in Scotland, and that translates to poor performance at senior level. The Kiwis are a rugby obsessed nation and as a result they get the full buy-in from all the schools throughout the land - being an All Black is the pinnable of New Zealand sport, whereas being a Scottish rugby international lends you complete anonymity in Scotland outside of Edinburgh, the Borders and the odd pocket of Glasgow and Aberdeenshire. I walked past Tim Visser the other day on Thistle Street and I'm fairly confident that 90% of the other pedestrians on the street wouldn't have recognised him, and he's one of our more high profile players. I doubt 1 in 10 weegies would recognise Alex Dunbar or Tommy Seymour.

By contrast I can't imagine Savea, Nonu or Carter would get far in New Zealand without being spotted!

[Majestic83]

The main advantage the NZ kids have which always seems very sensible to me is that junior rugby is separated by weight rather than age. A fast developing 13 year old will then play against similar sized 16 year olds rather than smashing kids his own age

I think that would be the ideal solution. It does come with its own draw backs. I asked this to a kiwi-native who coaches minis and u18 in central Scotland. He said it would be a great idea but there aren't the numbers to make it work. Kids also want to play with their mates so if they develop at different levels they'll be separated. Part of the whole ethos is to make it enjoyable.

Our Colts team played against Tauranga rugby club about 5 years ago and at that time Tauranga were the new Zealand colts champions. They beat us by about 30 points, they did have some big maori/island players in their team but it was the skill level that was unbelievable.
What a lot of them put their skills down to was that during the rugby off season they all play in touch rugby leagues so are developing their passing,stepping etc playing that.
Its not something that I am aware of happening too much over here, I know a lot of corporate companies have touch rugby tournaments but there doesn't seem to be anything organised like they have in NZ. Something the SRU should maybe look at for summer months.
Also had a scrum half play for our team a few seasons ago and never seen someone with as quick a pass. The main difference he found between club rugby in NZ and Scotland was the passing. He found that in NZ you always rugby onto the ball so are getting it at speed where as in Scotland he found you get the ball and then have to start running.

[cp10]

There is both a quanity and a quality issue a school/youth rugby in Scotland, and that translates to poor performance at senior level. The Kiwis are a rugby obsessed nation and as a result they get the full buy-in from all the schools throughout the land - being an All Black is the pinnable of New Zealand sport, whereas being a Scottish rugby international lends you complete anonymity in Scotland outside of Edinburgh, the Borders and the odd pocket of Glasgow and Aberdeenshire. I walked past Tim Visser the other day on Thistle Street and I'm fairly confident that 90% of the other pedestrians on the street wouldn't have recognised him, and he's one of our more high profile players. I doubt 1 in 10 weegies would recognise Alex Dunbar or Tommy Seymour.

By contrast I can't imagine Savea, Nonu or Carter would get far in New Zealand without being spotted!

If it was down to pure numbers it would be England vs South Africa in every world cup final with Japan in the semis.

There is not one reason the All Blacks are the best. Its a multitude. Like Majestic says they play touch in the summer (which is available to everyone here www.touch-scotland.com - it's the reason I got re-interested in rugby). They have a tiered system to get to the All Blacks - Club to ITM Cup (Semi Pro) to SuperRugby to All Blacks. Anglo-Kiwis kids have to work hard against early developed Maoris. Better coaching. They hardly ever loose which builds a positive attitude... I could keep going.

It's also worth pointing out New Zealand are having the same problems as everyone else in declining numbers. It doesn't help that we (rest of the world) poach their players which reduces the effectiveness of the Club - ITM Cup - SuperRugby axis.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Happy birthday to RDW too, he'll be rapping on the door of 30 soon, all downhill from there.

[RDW]

Happy birthday to RDW too, he'll be rapping on the door of 30 soon, all downhill from there.

28

[funnyExiledScot]

Happy birthday to RDW too, he'll be rapping on the door of 30 soon, all downhill from there.

Nonsense. 30 is the new 20!!

[funnyExiledScot]

Without tempting fate, being presumptuous, or winding up Dragons fans heaven forbid, but it's a tad annoying that the European Challenge Cup final is on a Friday evening (at the Stoop). Doubt I'll be able to get down to that if we beat the Dragons as am running short of holiday time this year. Had it been on a Saturday I'd certainly would have, and I'll bet there are other fans in a similar position.

[Majestic83]

Without tempting fate, being presumptuous, or winding up Dragons fans heaven forbid, but it's a tad annoying that the European Challenge Cup final is on a Friday evening (at the Stoop). Doubt I'll be able to get down to that if we beat the Dragons as am running short of holiday time this year. Had it been on a Saturday I'd certainly would have, and I'll bet there are other fans in a similar position.

Yep same for me, running short on holidays with just moving house and wouldn't be able to make it down on a Friday.
Is the final on sky or BT sport?

[funnyExiledScot]

BT Sport I believe, which is handy as I have it.

Anyway, if Amos gets anywhere near Visser I suspect talk of making the final is horribly premature!

[RDW]

Well I just so happen to be in London that weekend for my dad's birthday!

We were meant to be going out for a family meal that night though...

[madmaccas]

BT Sport I believe, which is handy as I have it.

Anyway, if Amos gets anywhere near Visser I suspect talk of making the final is horribly premature!

I think the same could be said for Timbo getting near Amos! He's not a big tackler and gives away a fair old bit of height and weight to Visser.

[Majestic83]

Well I just so happen to be in London that weekend for my dad's birthday!

We were meant to be going out for a family meal that night though...

Pie or burger at the ground would constitute a meal??

[EWT Spoons]

Pretty happy with this as well. I'm down in London for work these days, so could hang around for the game, before heading up the road.

Not that I am counting any form of poultry, still got a tough match against Dragons first.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well I just so happen to be in London that weekend for my dad's birthday!

We were meant to be going out for a family meal that night though...

Pie or burger at the ground would constitute a meal??

Plenty decent gastro options in Richmond, a short cab from the Stoop.....

[Nematode]

In case people haven't already seen it, I'd recommend the thread on the international section about "I think this is something we need to watch from the All Blacks at this WC". Really interesting article on it about how the Chiefs are playing.

Fiendishly clever, but is it bending the rules too far?

[InjuredYetAgain]

What do you reckon would be a good crowd for the semi-final? I reckon 8,000 would be a reasonable number (albeit still disappointing). The Toulouse crowd was on a Saturday and was the outcome of some good quality PR and planning from the SRU so can't see it getting anywhere approaching that figure.
That said,there must be some Weeg fans who don't have to wear an "Easterhouse Ankle Bracelet" who are allowed out after dusk?

[funnyExiledScot]

Well Edinburgh are offering season ticket holders up to 4x £15 tickets and they've extended the deadline for purchase until tomorrow, which suggests to me that there hasn't been a massive uptake.

I'd like to think it will be 10,000+ but the Dragons won't bring many, and Tory austerity cuts will prevent the benefits scroungers coming over from the West.

[RDW]

I'd hope for 10k+

[InjuredYetAgain]

10,000+ on a Friday night?! I'll have a point of whatever he is drinking, barkeep.
RDW seems to have a man on the inside [insert your own punchline] but I wouldn't be surprised if the extension of the offer was NOT because of poor sales. Was the ticket office even open on the bank holiday Monday? If not, there won't have been much time for people to buy their tickets.

[justified sinner]

I'd like to see 8k plus. I got my tickets this morning, and there didn't seem to be that many sold but plenty of time to work on selling before the game.

[Nematode]

I can't see it being higher than 6-7K realistically. No offence to the dragons, but they aren't quite Toulouse and the stakes aren't nearly as large i.e. playing away at the Aviva against Ulster...

[kilo-doug]

Regardless of attendance figures, I know I have a heap load of grovelling to do if I'm to make it to Murrayfield for even a half of the match with it being my mum's *big number* birthday. Anyone got any contacts who could possibly push it back to the Sunday?

[EWT Spoons]

Nothing says "happy birthday mum" like a trip to Murrayfield for the rugby. Birthday present?!

Failing that just keep telling yourself that she would want you to be happy, and going to the rugby would make you happy. Boom get out clause!!

[kilo-doug]

EWT, genius.

[RDW]

Regardless of attendance figures, I know I have a heap load of grovelling to do if I'm to make it to Murrayfield for even a half of the match with it being my mum's *big number* birthday. Anyone got any contacts who could possibly push it back to the Sunday?

Knowing you and your dad as I do, surely your mum is used to rugby coming before everything??

[EWT Spoons]

Going to put his here as it seems the best place for it.

I’ve been very critical of Solomans during his time with the club, but in the last few months things seem to have turned around. Our defence is a lot less porous than it once was, and we actually seem to have some attacking ability beyond kicking it aimlessly away.

My position previously was that he should be moved on, but I think the team now understands how he wants them to play, and whilst that has taken possibly far too long, it has at least happened and it’s working generally.

So, hands up, he’s currently proving me wrong and long may it continue, especially as we have a big test on sat evening.

Also fair play to the like of BigGee (and others) who called out the virtues of standing by him, looks like you’re being proven right.

[Weegie Wizard]

While I would applaud the sentiment I think the project is still in its infancy. I know you're not suggesting otherwise but I think it's important not to get too carried away so that your expectations are realistic.

Assuming that Edinburgh at least make the final and finish 7th in the league (which is realistic), the season has been a good one.

Your problem is that only the Scarlets at the moment are in your sights for overtaking next season and they have made one or two very good signings already

Edinburgh still need to clear out about half a dozen players who aren't good enough for a playoffs challenge and bring in at least the same volume of better players. It's difficult to see where these guys are coming from.

In addition to that, you need a few of your EDP guys to make the step up. Sutherland and Toolis managed it this season but it will be interesting to see who else manages it next year. There should be a few early chances with the RWC at least. Who is the smart money on?

[Nematode]

I think Edinburgh should make the top 6 next season - why not?

The Scarlets have made a very decent signing in DTH, however, Edinburgh's key strength - the pack - will be largely unaffected in the World Cup period - (Sutherland, McInally/Cochrance, ?, Bresler, Mackenzie, Coman, Grant, Du Preez).

Over the summer Edinbrugh might get to work on some more attacking plays for the backs - the prospect of Hoyland getting quick ball, with Scott and Burleigh in the centres (and throw in in form Farndale and Brown) with Tonks at fly half is a great prospect.

[RuggerRadge2611]

I was previously very harsh on Solomans because I didn’t understand what he was doing. All I saw was foreign players coming into Edinburgh and home grown guys being thrown on the Scrap Heap. Ross Rennie immediately springs to mind.

However hearing the man speak now about how the calibre of players initially at his disposal were not good enough to bring on the younger lads now starts to make sense.

Feet firmly on the ground but I think we have one of the best packs in the pro12 at the moment. Our scrum is very strong and we seem to hold onto the ball well.

Coupled with the fact that guys like SHC, Nel and Watson now appear to be really flourishing is a good sign.

The greatest change I can see though is in the mentality of Dave Denton. He has gone from being an arrogant brat to an assured leader on the pitch. Even going so far as to defuse situations between some of the younger squad members.

I never really saw him as leader until the London Irish game when he was being very vocal in the opening huddle and also grabbed SHC and told him to “cool his jets” whilst bickering with Watson.

Whilst not a new guy MacKenzie had a very promising cameo on Sunday. He would be one of my Bolters for the RWC especially if Richie Gray and Grant Gilchrist don't recover.

[Weegie Wizard]

I think Edinburgh should make the top 6 next season - why not?

The Scarlets have made a very decent signing in DTH, however, Edinburgh's key strength - the pack - will be largely unaffected in the World Cup period - (Sutherland, McInally/Cochrance, ?, Bresler, Mackenzie, Coman, Grant, Du Preez).

Over the summer Edinbrugh might get to work on some more attacking plays for the backs - the prospect of Hoyland getting quick ball, with Scott and Burleigh in the centres (and throw in in form Farndale and Brown) with Tonks at fly half is a great prospect.

Is Chris Dean any good? What are his chances?

[cp10]

I think Edinburgh should make the top 6 next season - why not?

The Scarlets have made a very decent signing in DTH, however, Edinburgh's key strength - the pack - will be largely unaffected in the World Cup period - (Sutherland, McInally/Cochrance, ?, Bresler, Mackenzie, Coman, Grant, Du Preez).

Over the summer Edinbrugh might get to work on some more attacking plays for the backs - the prospect of Hoyland getting quick ball, with Scott and Burleigh in the centres (and throw in in form Farndale and Brown) with Tonks at fly half is a great prospect.

Is Chris Dean any good? What are his chances?

Sounds like he's not a had good season to develop due playing in a poor Edin Accies team. If they had more success we might have seen him this season instead he's off with 7s.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Hamish Watson - on other threads folk are saying he is too small.  A certain Mr McCaw - IMO the best back row in the world.  1m88 108 kgs  Watson 1m85 98 kgs.  Is Watson really too small for international rugby?  at 23 he will get a bit more muscle yet will he not?

I've just read this in a Scotsman article from Saturday, obviously Solomons doesn't consider Watson to be too small

“He is physically gifted. His genetics are good. He is a dynamic, explosive athlete. His workrate is phenomenal; he is a machine,” is the Solomons verdict. “He certainly doesn’t stand back for anybody. He is a great guy, very likeable and an excellent team man. He has a massive future ahead of him.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/hamish-watson-eager-for-blair-cowan-test-1-3738354

[BigGee]

The begining of next season is going to be very interesting in the Pro 12 as a lot of teams will be giviing a lot of players away to their respective world cup squads and so previous form may well be going out of the window.

I am actually looking this as a positive thing, as it will allow a lot of the youngsters to get a bit more game time than they would do normally and we might unearth a few more diamonds in the process.

I think it is really hard for young pros to make the breakthrough. It really is a chicken and egg situation. They don't get played because they don't have the experience yet won't get it unless they play. There really is a massive amount of luck sometimes in getting the chance to make the breakthrough,it so ofen depends on someone else getting injured or called up as an interational which almost certainly guarentees that they will get there place back when they return.

If I was a young pro at either of the Scottish sides I really would be hoping that this might be the chance to show what you could do. They need to take that chace as it may not come along again for a while.

It might be an interesting league table by november next year, with sides like Connacht, who won't be losing many payers, making a real push.

[BigGee]

Hamish Watson - on other threads folk are saying he is too small.  A certain Mr McCaw - IMO the best back row in the world.  1m88 108 kgs  Watson 1m85 98 kgs.  Is Watson really too small for international rugby?  at 23 he will get a bit more muscle yet will he not?

I've just read this in a Scotsman article from Saturday, obviously Solomons doesn't consider Watson to be too small

“He is physically gifted. His genetics are good. He is a dynamic, explosive athlete. His workrate is phenomenal; he is a machine,” is the Solomons verdict. “He certainly doesn’t stand back for anybody. He is a great guy, very likeable and an excellent team man. He has a massive future ahead of him.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/hamish-watson-eager-for-blair-cowan-test-1-3738354

He may or may not get any bigger, another 10 kg is unlikely and would probably cost him his speed and explosiveness, which is currently his main virtue. Mccaw is actually pretty big for an openside and I don't think that watson is to small. He just looks it when you see him standing besides all the other monsters!

He is actually a very good example of what i was saying earlier, in that he has just really taken his chance when it came to him. If it had not been for other back row injuries earlier in the season, he may not have got that chance. It does make you wonder just how many really good players do slip through the net. Not just in Scotland either, i am sure it happens everywhere. Just look at how many really good players come over from the SH, that we have hardly heard of. It is really hard and needs a lot of being in the right place at the right time to get into a super rugby team as well.

[EWT Spoons]

While I would applaud the sentiment I think the project is still in its infancy. I know you're not suggesting otherwise but I think it's important not to get too carried away so that your expectations are realistic.

Aye don't get me wrong, there is still a lot of work to do and I think we need to continue to see progress, all I'm saying really is I was on his back when things were going badly, now things are going (reasonably) well, it's only fair to give credit where it's due.

[Weegie Wizard]

Hamish Watson - on other threads folk are saying he is too small.  A certain Mr McCaw - IMO the best back row in the world.  1m88 108 kgs  Watson 1m85 98 kgs.  Is Watson really too small for international rugby?  at 23 he will get a bit more muscle yet will he not?

I've just read this in a Scotsman article from Saturday, obviously Solomons doesn't consider Watson to be too small

“He is physically gifted. His genetics are good. He is a dynamic, explosive athlete. His workrate is phenomenal; he is a machine,” is the Solomons verdict. “He certainly doesn’t stand back for anybody. He is a great guy, very likeable and an excellent team man. He has a massive future ahead of him.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/hamish-watson-eager-for-blair-cowan-test-1-3738354

He may or may not get any bigger, another 10 kg is unlikely and would probably cost him his speed and explosiveness, which is currently his main virtue. Mccaw is actually pretty big for an openside and I don't think that watson is to small. He just looks it when you see him standing besides all the other monsters!

He is actually a very good example of what i was saying earlier, in that he has just really taken his chance when it came to him. If it had not been for other back row injuries earlier in the season, he may not have got that chance. It does make you wonder just how many really good players do slip through the net. Not just in Scotland either, i am sure it happens everywhere. Just look at how many really good players come over from the SH, that we have hardly heard of. It is really hard and needs a lot of being in the right place at the right time to get into a super rugby team as well.

I remember reading a thing with Beattie a year or two ago and he said that was the main reason he made it. He was saying there were about half a dozen players in the SRU youth system who were better than him but Jon Petrie got injured so Glasgow needed a number 8. The rest went on to uni and are now in proper jobs.

[cp10]

Back to my thinking about New Zealand (and SA & Aus) and why they are so good at producing players - they have the ITM Cup (Currie Cup & National Rugby Championship respectively).

Once the SuperRugby season is over the squads split. All Blacks go away to play Rugby Championship and the remain SuperRugby squad head over to their ITM Cup teams. So your up and coming player or good club player not considered good enough prior to that season for SuperRugby will then get a chance to train and play with SuperRugby level players. They see and then gain the experience required to make the step-up. The up and coming player and club players that then stand out will earn themselves a SuperRugby contract or an overseas deal.

All part of jigsaw of why they have so many good quality players.

Not just players but coaches too.

[Majestic83]

Saw a post by Sean Maitland on Instagram last night and he has been in for shoulder surgery at the weekend I think. Would imagine he will be out until the end of the season now!

[madmaccas]

The begining of next season is going to be very interesting in the Pro 12 as a lot of teams will be giviing a lot of players away to their respective world cup squads and so previous form may well be going out of the window.

I am actually looking this as a positive thing, as it will allow a lot of the youngsters to get a bit more game time than they would do normally and we might unearth a few more diamonds in the process.

I think it is really hard for young pros to make the breakthrough. It really is a chicken and egg situation. They don't get played because they don't have the experience yet won't get it unless they play. There really is a massive amount of luck sometimes in getting the chance to make the breakthrough,it so ofen depends on someone else getting injured or called up as an interational which almost certainly guarentees that they will get there place back when they return.

If I was a young pro at either of the Scottish sides I really would be hoping that this might be the chance to show what you could do. They need to take that chace as it may not come along again for a while.

It might be an interesting league table by november next year, with sides like Connacht, who won't be losing many payers, making a real push.

Yeah that's what happened in 2011, that's when Glasgow really started to make waves IMO. During the WC they beat Leinster, Cardiff and the Dragons and guys like Hogg, Seymour, Pyrgos, Dunbar, Grant, Harley, Fusaro, MacArthur, Weir and Horne all started to break into the team and put their hands up.

During the same period Edinburgh relied on Scott, Laidlaw, Gilchrist, Denton, Grant, Jones and McInally and took Munster's scalp.

Those players are pretty much the bulk of today's Scotland squad. Fingers crossed they do shine because, unlike 2011, we already have a young team so competition for places could be just what we need to push on both domestically and internationally.

[BigGee]

Saw a post by Sean Maitland on Instagram last night and he has been in for shoulder surgery at the weekend I think. Would imagine he will be out until the end of the season now!

Probably won't be seeing him in a Glasgow shirt again then, which is a shame. We have not really seen the best of him in his time with us, he has been injured quite a lot. May struggle for the WC as well if the op was for anything serious, which it probably was, given they have tried to let it heal on its own for some time, with no sucess.

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