The Indian Wells Masters 1000 Thread

[temporary21]

First topic message reminder :

Figured that masters 1000 events deserve their own threads and as such here is your place for all things Indian Wells.

[Born Slippy]

Yeah Simon then returned the favour when *2-0 30-0 and Rafa has taken back control since.

[CAS]

apart from one game, Rafa looks like he's getting back to his ominous best

[Haddie-nuff]

Much better than yesterday apart from an awful lapse in the second game of this set.

Thanks he was so bad yesterday that I thought Simon might give him a fight today.
Watching Raonic is only marginally better than having a wisdom tooth extraction !!!!

[Haddie-nuff]

apart from one game, Rafa looks like he's getting back to his ominous best

Thank him upstairs for that !!!

[CAS]

Roger must be thinking why couldn't I have run into when he was out of form?? He's in my half when he's back in beast mode

[Born Slippy]

Rafa has been about a 5/10 today. Forehand still very shaky. Movement looks good though. Can he serve it out this time?

[It Must Be Love]

I thought he played quite well today B_S, with the exception of a few lapses here and there.
Forehand still does look a bit shaky, agree with that.

[Haddie-nuff]

Thanks for the updates.. just my luck to miss him on a good day

[Born Slippy]

I thought he played quite well today B_S, with the exception of a few lapses here and there.
Forehand still does look a bit shaky, agree with that.

The worry was that each time Simon raised his level, Rafa dropped his. I thought he played reasonably well in set 1 but was very hit and miss in set 2. I think Raonic may well beat him.

[LuvSports!]

5/10!?!? He's in the quarters at 50% of his max.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Raonic is playing very well and hasn't looked in any real trouble, realistically could have a chance over Nadal if he can forget his previous masters match with him

[LuvSports!]

What when he took a set off him last year at Miami in a very tight match?

[Josiah Maiestas]

Nah the one which was 6-2 6-2, my mistake!

He'll be better off coming to the net.

[Silver]

One play that Raonic has worked on is following up his serve with a mid-court whipped forehand into the deuce corner, he hits that shot very well and has good footwork around the ball when moving into the net these days. Should work well against a lefty like Rafa too, although he'll be protecting that BH corner.

Nadal needs to adopt SOP and bombard the Milos backhand as much as he can. Raonic has improved a lot, but the BH is still clunky and lacks fluidity on the move. His forehand is a powerhouse if he's allowed to tee off on it.

Tomic a break up in the 3rd set...could be a tough ask for Novak next round if both win?

[Haddie-nuff]

One play that Raonic has worked on is following up his serve with a mid-court whipped forehand into the deuce corner, he hits that shot very well and has good footwork around the ball when moving into the net these days. Should work well against a lefty like Rafa too, although he'll be protecting that BH corner.

Nadal needs to adopt SOP and bombard the Milos backhand as much as he can. Raonic has improved a lot, but the BH is still clunky and lacks fluidity on the move. His forehand is a powerhouse if he's allowed to tee off on it.

Tomic a break up in the 3rd set...could be a tough ask for Novak next round if both win?

Well Im pretty sure Rafa knows what he has to do to beat him by now dont you ..as the h 2 h is 5 -0 in his favour.. it is a question of whether Rafa is up to the standard he needs to be ..but then my opinion of Raonic is somewhat "uninformed". Doubtless though Rafa will appreciate the advice

[Silver]

Heh, he knows a lot better than me, that's for sure! I'm sure Rafa has a gameplan in mind and will do his best to execute on the day

Tough draw for Fedal though. Raonic/Berdych, then each other - just to make the final. Ouch!

[HM Murdock]

Better from Novak last night.

Probably the most sensibly I've seen him go after Isner's serve. Too often he has tried to attack it the way as he does the more "normal" serves on tour but the speed and angles are just too much to do that.

Last night it was more about getting it back in play to get into a rally, so he was 'blocking' more serves than usual. Some of the returns he pulled off were astonishing though. Some absolute rockets from Isner were sent right back to his feet.

Lovely "Hot Shot" too...

[Belovedluckyboy]

I thought that should be the way to play against Isner? Fed, Rafa and Murray seemed to do better vs Ísner than Novak does. They just blocked back his serves and be prepared for his next shot rather than returned too aggressively. I especially like how Murray dealt with Isner, but it's strange that Murray had more issues with Raonic.

[HM Murdock]

I thought that should be the way to play against Isner? Fed, Rafa and Murray seemed to do better vs Ísner than Novak does.  They just blocked back his serves and be prepared for his next shot rather than returned too aggressively.  I especially like how Murray dealt with Isner, but it's strange that Murray had more issues with Raonic.

Yes, definitely. To quote Mr Punch, "that's the way to do it".

Historically, that little extra that Novak does with his return that makes him so effective against most of the tour, has been a hindrance against the really big servers. Dialling it back a touch is much more effective.

Federer strikes me as about the best at dismantling the really high velocity serves. It plays to his natural strengths: hand-eye and good touch.

[laverfan]

Tomic has been playing very controlled Tennis. Can he better his past performances and rise up? The demeanor has been much calmer than his usual mercurial level.

[temporary21]

Tomic has been playing very controlled Tennis. Can he better his past performances and rise up? The demeanor has been much calmer than his usual mercurial level.

Ha he finally fired his father? That must have been a terrible role model for him.

[laverfan]

Federer strikes me as about the best at dismantling the really high velocity serves. It plays to his natural strengths: hand-eye and good touch.

After Isner has taken Djokovic out earlier...

[CAS]

I often feel surprised Federer isn't considered one of the best returners of all time, his backhand block is still one of my favourite shots. What he did to Roddick at the US Open 2007 was unbelievable

[Belovedluckyboy]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray. Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player. Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

[CAS]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray.  Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player.  Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

Peronally think thats more to do whats behind the serve more than the return itself, Its whats behind Rafas serve not his serve itself although still underrated

On the Ferrer note, Federer and Murray were both asked who the best returner in the world was and they both said Ferrer. Quite a compliment

[HM Murdock]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray.  Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player.  Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

Peronally think thats more to do whats behind the serve more than the return itself, Its whats behind Rafas serve not his serve itself although still underrated

On the Ferrer note, Federer and Murray were both asked who the best returner in the world was and they both said Ferrer. Quite a compliment

I don't think Rafa's return is anything great in isolation but it's effective at getting him into a rally on at least equal terms, which then lets him bring his real strengths into play.

I agree with BelovedLucky on Fed's serve. He's the master against howitzers but I think Murray and (especially) Djokovic do more with their returns against the more standard fare.

LF - please don't remind me of that 2012 Isner match! As I recall, Novak broke Isner once and never lost his own serve but still lost the match! Last night was a good antidote though. The 7th game of the 1st set (where Djokovic breaks) is a very good game and worth watching but I'd particularly highlight the returns at 0:28 and 0:53. Both superb blocked returns.
[

[Jahu]

Raonic to go to the Final

Murray to trash that Lopez in 2 sets.

Tomic to melt against Djoko, he can't play more then 2 good matches in a row.

[Born Slippy]

Ridiculously skilled first game from Murray. Looks sharp.

[Jahu]

Serena would beat this Lopez, what a joke of a player, no FH, no BH, at ranked 12?

Andy toying around with him.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Feli returning is dire. Does he not wanna upset Judy or something?

[Silver]

Andy absolutely ruling this match so far, Lopez is getting nowhere. Really tough matchup for him, though.

I agree with BelovedLucky on Fed's serve. He's the master against howitzers but I think Murray and (especially) Djokovic do more with their returns against the more standard fare.

Bang on. When I was reading your earlier post about Novak not going after Isner's serve as much, I thought he must've been reading the conversation you and I had about it a few months back on here! It was good to see him blocking a few more back, a nice string to have for your bow. Hoping to see that from him going forward too.

Federer's return has gotten much, much better since his prime years, and these days he's a real danger. Easily top 10 on the return these days (as opposed to barely top 20), but he's still far from the prowess of Novak or Murray overall, IMO. He's still the best against the big servers, but still not consistently attacking enough against most of the tour.

[Born Slippy]

I don't see Fed as particularly good at returning the big serves (definitely not the best). He has a phenomenal record against big servers because he is so ridiculously good on his own serve that they never ever break him. However, I would be surprised if he breaks them more often than Novak.

[Jahu]

Tomic has pulled out of the match with Djoko.

[Born Slippy]

Very good first set from Murray. Nice variety. Concentration may be the issue at the start of this set.

Tomic pulled out so Novak already through to the SF.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Oh dear Bernard Djokoray Semi's incoming.

[Jahu]

Fed-Ranoic SF, unless Birdy decides to play good and Nadal fixes his hair.

[banbrotam]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray.  Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player.  Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

Peronally think thats more to do whats behind the serve more than the return itself, Its whats behind Rafas serve not his serve itself although still underrated

On the Ferrer note, Federer and Murray were both asked who the best returner in the world was and they both said Ferrer. Quite a compliment

They have a point. We wonder how on earth Ferrer with his so called 'nothing' game (other peoples descriptions not mine) has been a consistent top tenner for nigh on ten years and it's simply because he does every shot very well, including the return

Too many players play 'lights out' tennis for 90% of the shots and then are very weak on one or two

For me, I've always favoured the all-rounders, those who pay just as much attention to the drop shot as the serve. But then again I hate the serve and wish they only had one chance!!

[Haddie-nuff]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray.  Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player.  Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

Peronally think thats more to do whats behind the serve more than the return itself, Its whats behind Rafas serve not his serve itself although still underrated

On the Ferrer note, Federer and Murray were both asked who the best returner in the world was and they both said Ferrer. Quite a compliment

They have a point. We wonder how on earth Ferrer with his so called 'nothing' game (other peoples descriptions not mine) has been a consistent top tenner for nigh on ten years and it's simply because he does every shot very well, including the return

Too many players play 'lights out' tennis for 90% of the shots and then are very weak on one or two

For me, I've always favoured the all-rounders, those who pay just as much attention to the drop shot as the serve. But then again I hate the serve and wish they only had one chance!!

I have, along with LF, long been singing the virtues of Ferrer; though I never wished  to argue with the so called pundits on this forum who had him down as a one dimenesional player who hared around the court,who could not volley, who could not return all of this because I assume he has not won, what I and LF, would love to have seen before he retired the elusive GS.
The bandwagon is not stopping for more passengers !!!!

[Jahu]

HN in normal mood today, not good.

[bogbrush]

...that's because while Fed's blocked returns worked well against big servers, they didn't work well vs players like Rafa, Novak and Murray.  Rafa, Novak and Murray OTOH, have returns that work against almost any player.  Oh, Ferrer too, has one of the best returns.

Peronally think thats more to do whats behind the serve more than the return itself, Its whats behind Rafas serve not his serve itself although still underrated

On the Ferrer note, Federer and Murray were both asked who the best returner in the world was and they both said Ferrer. Quite a compliment

They have a point. We wonder how on earth Ferrer with his so called 'nothing' game (other peoples descriptions not mine) has been a consistent top tenner for nigh on ten years and it's simply because he does every shot very well, including the return

Too many players play 'lights out' tennis for 90% of the shots and then are very weak on one or two

For me, I've always favoured the all-rounders, those who pay just as much attention to the drop shot as the serve. But then again I hate the serve and wish they only had one chance!!

Really? Murray would struggle to make the top 20 on that basis!

[Born Slippy]

Impressive display from Murray so far. Sheer genius to get the double break.

[Born Slippy]

Lol Andy - one break handed back.

[temporary21]

Cows go moo, sheep go baa, people underestimate Ferrer because he doesnt have Federers forehand, blokes a role model of hard work.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Murray doing a Djokovic and being broken when serving for the match. He'll get another chance in a minute.

[Born Slippy]

Accomplished win. Halfway to big 4 SF.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Murray does serve it out to love at the second time of asking. Apart from that blip you'd have to say an excellent performance.

Looking at that match you do get why Lopez is 0-10 against Murray, he didn't play a bad match (not great, but not bad), but you're just not sure how he beats Murray if the latter's anywhere near his best.

[Jahu]

If i had Felicianos GF, I would be tired and play crap too.

[Jahu]

Cows go moo, sheep go baa, people underestimate Ferrer because he doesnt have Federers forehand, blokes a role model of hard work.

People don't underestimate Ferrer, just that no one cares for hardworking players, just for those with GS titles.

Thought I've said it many times Ferrer deserves a GS and is the most well behaved player on tour.

Lots of money too, so he ain't done bad.

[Born Slippy]

Murray's first Masters SF for 2 years.

[Jahu]

Been "Slippery" for Andy

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