Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad

by 123456789 Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:19 am

First topic message reminder :

A. WORLD CUP WARM-UP MATCHES:

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Irelan10

15 August 2015:Ireland v Scotland, Dublin.

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Italy_10

22 August 2015: Italy v Scotland, Turin.

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Scot_f10

29 August 2015: Scotland v Italy, Edinburgh

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 France10

05 September 2015: France v Scotland, Paris

B. WORLD CUP POOL MATCHES

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Scot_f10

23 September 2015: Scotland V Japan, Kingsholm - Gloucester.

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Scot_f10

27 September 2015: Scotland v USA, Elland Road - Leeds.

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Scot_f10

03 October 2015: Scotland v South Africa, St James Park - Newcastle.

Scotland World Cup look ahead and squad - Page 9 Scot_f10

10 October 2015: Scotland v Samoa, St James Park - Newcastle.

C. EXTENDED SCOTLAND SQUAD

- FORWARDS (25) -

Prop (7):
Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 4 caps

Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 85 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped

Second-row (6):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 44 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 61 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 43 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 11 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 44 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap

- BACKS (21) -

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 25 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Centre (6):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 12 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)

Back-three (8):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 93 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 18 caps

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:16 pm

"I'm sorry if I've muddied the waters but national identity is not just deeply personal but also extremely illogical, captain.
"

I quite agree being English born of english parents - scotland is my home. I am not a scot. But I am one of "the people of scotland"

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:23 pm

BigGee wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
BigGee wrote:I made a right mess with the quotes in my last post and I can't be bothered to try and sort it out!
Welcome to my world.

Its clearly an Essex thing!

by Majestic83 Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:56 pm

TJ wrote:Majestic - thats not what i said. Its nothing to do with where they were born and brought up - its about love of scotland and making Scotland their home. The post you quote even says that. If they consider themselves (part) scottish its fine. I have no issue with the links of Denton, Maitland and Lineen. I have huge issues with the likes of Laney and Poutney

That last part doesn't even make any sense, why have an issue with some players and not other? Yes Lineen has made his home in Scotland which to be honest is a rarity.
The majority of people who fall into the category of Maitland, Denton, Laney, Metcalfe, the leslies etc are going to return to their country where they have been brought up in. Does it make them any less patriotic about Scotland if they are not going to live the rest of their lives there, nope it doesn't. They will return to the likes of Australia, New Zealand etc because of things like their families and friends being there.

My girlfriends aunt and uncle were born and brought up in Scotland but moved to Surrey about 25 years ago. They have 2 kids one is 19 and one is 16. They have both been raised as Scottish and consider themselves Scottish despite never living here. The 16 year old is potentially good enough to play pro rugby and is in the exiles system at the moment. However he is unlikely to ever live long term in Scotland and possibly not play rugby in Scotland so under your logic he shouldn't play for Scotland?

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:08 pm

There seems to be a lot of skirting about the issue here. I don't want to get all death eater (harry potter reference) on people by saying you must have pure blood to play for Scotland because I'm half Taff myself.

I have always said had I been good enough to play as a professional at Rugby Scotland would be my first choice and is the team I support. However my dad is a die hard Llanelli born Welshman, the accent is a bit distorted now though. However I could imagine his immense pride if I was to choose Wales.

Being a mongrel like me is a clearer position for team qualification than residency. Denton's Mother is a soap dodger I think so he has a direct link to Scotland so I'm not sure he can be in the same bucket as Nel, Strauss and Visser residencey qualifiers or Du Preez another "project player".

Lets be honest despite Visser's defence at times the three guys mentioned above are pretty good rugby players. It could be argued that we NEED Nel since we are desperately short of good tight heads. We are not desperate for backrowers. It would be my preference to give world cup places to players who do not qualify on the very slack residency rules.

As we have discussed plenty of times on here pro team places are limited in this country. If the unearthing of Russel, SHC and Watson are anything to go by, we must have talent here in Scotland if you go looking for it.

Bringing in project players is all good and well but what sort of message does it send out to the players at Melrose, Biggar, Jed, Stirling County, Ayr, Aberdeen Grammar, Kirkcaldy rugby club etc? Play really hard and perform well and you'll never get a crack at pro rugby because we will parachute in some foreigner who we think will do better?

You want to grow the game in Scotland? You have to give amateurs a chance from time to time. The less "project players" in Scottish pro teams the better IMO.

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:22 pm

My last word on it. The reason I have no issues with some players is they appear to be playing for scotloand for the love of the country. For others its mercenary

However I accept this is very difficult to judge especially during the playing career

" However he is unlikely to ever live long term in Scotland and possibly not play rugby in Scotland so under your logic he shouldn't play for Scotland?"

Majestic - do you bother to read what I wrote? Of course he should play for scotland as he wants to out of patriotism. pride and love of the country

by reallybored Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:30 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:There seems to be a lot of skirting about the issue here. I don't want to get all death eater (harry potter reference) on people by saying you must have pure blood to play for Scotland because I'm half Taff myself.

I have always said had I been good enough to play as a professional at Rugby Scotland would be my first choice and is the team I support. However my dad is a die hard Llanelli born Welshman, the accent is a bit distorted now though. However I could imagine his immense pride if I was to choose Wales.

Being a mongrel like me is a clearer position for team qualification than residency. Denton's Mother is a soap dodger I think so he has a direct link to Scotland so I'm not sure he can be in the same bucket as Nel, Strauss and Visser residencey qualifiers or Du Preez another "project player".

Lets be honest despite Visser's defence at times the three guys mentioned above are pretty good rugby players. It could be argued that we NEED Nel since we are desperately short of good tight heads. We are not desperate for backrowers. It would be my preference to give world cup places to players who do not qualify on the very slack residency rules.

As we have discussed plenty of times on here pro team places are limited in this country. If the unearthing of Russel, SHC and Watson are anything to go by, we must have talent here in Scotland if you go looking for it.

Bringing in project players is all good and well but what sort of message does it send out to the players at Melrose, Biggar, Jed, Stirling County, Ayr, Aberdeen Grammar, Kirkcaldy rugby club etc? Play really hard and perform well and you'll never get a crack at pro rugby because we will parachute in some foreigner who we think will do better?

You want to grow the game in Scotland? You have to give amateurs a chance from time to time. The less "project players" in Scottish pro teams the better IMO.

The rules are what they are. If nations like France and England take advantage of these rules with the level of resources they have, we'd be foolish and naive not to do the same.

The best way for the SRU to encourage kids to get out and play the game, is for Scottish teams to be successful and win silverware.

Strauss is the best No. 8 available to us, with him in the team there's more chance of us winning matches.

Guys like Ashe, Denton, Ritchie, Bradbury, Eadie or Spinks are young and have the next 10 years to win caps. And it's far better for them to be coming into a successful side.

by cp10 Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:36 pm

8 newbies: Allan Dell (prop), Damien Hoyland (wing), Willem Nel (prop) and Stuart McInally (hooker) earn selection from Edinburgh Rugby; while Hugh Blake (back-row) Mike Cusack (prop), Rory Hughes (wing) and Josh Strauss (back-row) are called up from Glasgow Warriors

Prop (7):
Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 4 caps

Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 85 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped

Second-row (6):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 44 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 61 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 43 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 11 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 44 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap

- BACKS (21) -

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 25 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Centre (6):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 12 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)

Back-three (8):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 93 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 18 caps

Scottish Rugby wrote:
The 46-man group, which will be reduced to 31 for the tournament in England this September, will convene at Ravenscraig Regional Sports Facility on Monday 15 June for a range of strength and conditioning tests.

Players from Guinness PRO12 champions Glasgow Warriors make up almost half the squad (22), with European Challenge Cup finalists Edinburgh Rugby providing 12, and clubs outside Scotland a further 12 – including English Premiership winners Jim Hamilton and Duncan Taylor, and Challenge Cup winner Greig Laidlaw.

Scotland Head Coach Vern Cotter, said: "The selection process was made easier by some good performances from a number of players, especially in the latter part of the season.

"Hopefully the confidence the players have gained from their successes will filter through into the rest of Scottish rugby. We'll need that for this campaign.”

Among the most experienced in the squad are six players competing for a place in a third Rugby World Cup: John Barclay (back-row), Chris Cusiter (scrum-half), Alasdair Dickinson (prop), Ross Ford (hooker), Jim Hamilton (second-row) and Sean Lamont (wing).

The inclusion of Barclay sees the Scarlets flanker feature in a national squad selection for the first time since the 2013 autumn internationals, while 25-times capped Wasps stand-off, Ruaridh Jackson, will also mount an international comeback, having recovered from a season-long knee injury.

Jackson, Alasdair Strokosch (back-row) and Richie Vernon (centre) are eyeing a second tournament having featured in New Zealand in 2011, though Vernon's presence was in his former position of number 8.

The remaining 37 selected players are left with the sizeable incentive of their first exposure to the sport's flagship Cup competition, eight of which are, as yet, uncapped: Allan Dell (prop), Damien Hoyland (wing), Willem Nel (prop) and Stuart McInally (hooker) earn selection from Edinburgh Rugby; while Hugh Blake (back-row) Mike Cusack (prop), Rory Hughes (wing) and Josh Strauss (back-row) are called up from Glasgow Warriors.

Despite naming a 46-man training group, Cotter was keen to stress that the squad was by no means a closed group.

"Flexibility and being able to adapt are among our key themes as we move towards the final 31 and the Rugby World Cup. This is not a firmly fixed squad, it's a living document,” he added.

"There are a number of players we've spoken to who will be working on things with their clubs and looking for form, and may well feature in our warm-up games as a chance to push for selection.

"We're working hard to be as cohesive as possible and push the limits of how far we can go.”

Those limits will be put to the test in a fortnight's time when the squad travel to train at high altitude in Font Romeu in the French Pyrenees, returning home for two months of skills, conditioning and tactical training at the home of Scottish rugby.

Cotter added: "Our priorities will focus on the major aspects of the game.

"Physically we'll be working very hard to find peak form. We know that teams play better in the Rugby World Cup, and we want to be one of those teams.

"We have four matches before the tournament; four 80-minute spells in which we can practice our combinations and work our plays, in attack and defence, providing opportunities for a number of players to compete for a place in the final 31.

"Every team entering the Rugby World Cup wants to win, but to win a World Cup you first have to qualify from your pool, and that's our major focus: two games in five days [Japan and USA] followed by another in six [South Africa] and another in seven [Samoa].

"We'll focus on preparing appropriately for each of those matches, so that we can become as effective as possible in this Rugby World Cup.”

Rugby World Cup preparations:

Scotland will face France, Ireland and Italy as part of the national team's build-up to the Rugby World Cup 2015.

The four-match schedule played on consecutive Saturdays from mid-August (15th) will begin when Cotter's men travel to face Ireland at the Aviva Stadium in Dublin.

Back-to-back fixtures against Italy will follow in Turin (22nd) and Edinburgh (29th), before concluding preparations against France in Paris at the start of September (5th).

The final squad will leave for Gloucester on Wednesday 16 September, ahead of their opening Rugby World Cup 2015 Pool match against Japan at Kingsholm Stadium on Wednesday 23 September (kick-off 2.30pm).

The Scots will face USA at Elland Road in Leeds (Sunday 27 September) followed by South Africa and Samoa on consecutive Saturdays (3 and 10 October) at St James Park, Newcastle.

by highland_scot Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:37 pm

Couple of surprises:

Barclay is back!

Scottish Rugby wrote:EXTENDED SCOTLAND SQUAD: RUGBY WORLD CUP 2015

- FORWARDS (25) -

Prop (7):
Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 4 caps

Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 85 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped

Second-row (6):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 44 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 61 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 43 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 11 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 44 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap

- BACKS (21) -

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 25 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps

Centre (6):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 12 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)

Back-three (8):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 93 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 18 caps

by MacKnocked-on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:40 pm

Ok, squad announced, forwards; Cusack, Dell, Dickinson, Grant, Nel, Reid, Welsh, Brown (Fraser), Ford, McInally, Gilchrist, Gray, Gray, Hamilton, Harley, Swinson, Ashe, Barclay, Blake, Cowan, Denton, Strauss, Strokosch, Wilson, Watson.
First observation, why no Toolis?

by cakeordeath Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:42 pm

Not sure how I feel about this. I am unhappy with the inclusion of Hamilton (rather have Toolis) and Strokosch (rather have someone not him) but it's good to see some of our adopted Scot's in there, and also others returning from injury.

by Captain_Sensible Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:45 pm

Shall we decamp to the squad-specific thread set up by cp10?

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:46 pm

No real issues with that bar Hamilton over Toolis but I guess we need some experienced players and Hamilton is playing well

Jeepers how many of the squad are young and inexperienced?

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:47 pm

Captain_Sensible wrote:Shall we decamp to the squad-specific thread set up by cp10?

Why not? I am afraid |i did rather divert this thread. Apologies

by highland_scot Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:49 pm

Hmm, no Ben Toolis? Harley as a 2nd row?

Still not a Strockosch fan and would take Brown or Eadie ahead of him.

by reallybored Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:50 pm

"There are a number of players we've spoken to who will be working on things with their clubs and looking for form, and may well feature in our warm-up games as a chance to push for selection.

Who is that likely to include?

MacArthur
Cross
Toolis
Brown
Fusaro
Beattie
Fife

Dunbar, Bennett, Scott Fingers Crossed

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:51 pm

Still no Kelly Brown, Ben Toolis is a strange one to leave out too.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:51 pm

https://www.606v2.com/t59257-scotland-s-46-man-training-squad-for-rwc

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:52 pm

Ben Toolis is unlucky and stroks a bit lucky

interesting how we have a few players with loads of caps then loads with almost none.

No real issues with the squad tho

by MacKnocked-on Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:53 pm

The omission of Toolis is odd to say the least, I would have him ahead of Swinson and Gilchrist for sure, don't understand that at all. Strokosch also is a strange selection, his best days are behind him surely. I would have taken a punt at Eadie.
In the backs we probably don't have much depth to choose from but having watched Hoyland in the 7s then I don't think defensively he is anywhere near ready for the WC so would be very surprised if he made the final cut.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:55 pm

Has Rob Harley played much in the second row. From memory only ever played at 6 for Scotland.

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Has Rob Harley played much in the second row. From memory only ever played at 6 for Scotland.

Yes - when injuries etc or yellow card he goes into the second row a couple of times.

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:02 pm

I've merged the threads together.

Echo the comments on Toolis - him and Jonny Gray have been the form lock pairing yet Toolis has been left out over a player who hasn't played for months (Gilchrist), one that is past it (Hamilton) and one that has also been injured and is yet to convince people that he's big enough for this level (Swinson).

Very strange.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:06 pm

Jaysus. Where did my last post go? It was funny and everything.

by **BigGee** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 pm

Experince in a word is what Big Jim has that the others don't and it is a bit strong to say he is past it, he put in a couple of pretty decent shifts to win Sarries the league!

Toolis is unlucky but he will get his chance again. Harley may well find that second row is his position now, for Glasgow and Scotland, both have better options in the back row but he is to good a player to ignore for all of that.

Cross and Beattie did not do nearly enough in the 6N to justify their inclusion so no surprises there. Cussack is worth a look at, particularly with a few more months to get his fitness levels up a bit more. If he does get there then he may be a formidable player.

Barclay has finally realised the value of keeping his head down and mouth shut and it is good that he will get his chance again, even though he may struggle to make the cut. Blake again is probably there for the experience. The only real surprise to me in the forwards is Stroks, who I really do not think brings very much any more. VC however clearly thinks otherwise!

by Majestic83 Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 pm

TJ wrote:My last word on it. The reason I have no issues with some players is they appear to be playing for scotloand for the love of the country. For others its mercenary

However I accept this is very difficult to judge especially during the playing career

" However he is unlikely to ever live long term in Scotland and possibly not play rugby in Scotland so under your logic he shouldn't play for Scotland?"

Majestic - do you bother to read what I wrote? Of course he should play for scotland as he wants to out of patriotism. pride and love of the country

Yes I have read what you have written but some of those players or type of players you have slated how do you know that they didn't want to play for Scotland out of patriotism? you don't so stop being so negative and support the team instead of slating some of the players involved!

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 pm

Is anyone else terrified that Strokosh is going to make it into the final cut?

I know they are professional rugby coaches and all and surely know more than us, but it is unfathomable that he would be picked over the likes of Ashe or Denton.

by **BigGee** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:13 pm

Of course in the backs no one really saw Hughes and Hoyland coming either, but hey we all like a bolter and they may well be worth a punt!

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14 pm

BigGee wrote:Experince in a word is what Big Jim has that the others don't and it is a bit strong to say he is past it, he put in a couple of pretty decent shifts to win Sarries the league!

He suits the Sarries style of play though, and certainly doesn't suit the way Cotter is trying to play (Toolis does).

His last good game for Scotland was when he beat Ireland at home in the 6N. All he does now is lumber around the park slowly giving away penalties!

by Majestic83 Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:19 pm

A few surprises in that squad.
Main ones for me being no Ben Toolis in the 2nd row who for me has been one of the best performing players in the Pro 12 in recent months. Can vary his game from the physical enforcer to the athletic lock pretty well.
Surprised to see Alan Dell in there who has barely played this season due to injury. Thought Rory Sutherland might have been in with a shot as he has looked very good for Edinburgh.
Ally Strokosh is one very lucky man to be included. Has not been playing well at Perpignan in recent months and sadly is well past his best now.
One omission is Johnnie Beattie who I am slightly surprised at. Actually been in good form for Castres for the season run in and is one of the players who really helped them escape relegation.

Backs are fairly spot on, will be interesting to see how much Jackson has recovered from his knee injury as he had been expected to be out till Autumn time. Good to see Dunbar in there and hopefully they aren't rushing him too much.
The one back I'm slightly surprised to see overlooked is Dougie Fife who the new Scotland backs coach was really talking up last week. Surprising to see Rory Hughes in over him.
In some positions going to be a very tough job for Vernon to cut it down and pick a squad of 31.

by Majestic83 Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:21 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is anyone else terrified that Strokosh is going to make it into the final cut?

I know they are professional rugby coaches and all and surely know more than us, but it is unfathomable that he would be picked over the likes of Ashe or Denton.

Yes, he is in very poor form for a team that has really had their confidence knocked with not getting promotion.
Would rather have seen someone like James Eddie involved instead who is a similar type player but better these days.

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:21 pm

Missed Dougie Fife - that certainly is a big omission given how little pro experience Hoyland (1 cap) and Hughes (7 caps) have!

by reallybored Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:22 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is anyone else terrified that Strokosh is going to make it into the final cut?

First thing I thought when I saw his name.

Similarly; Gilchrist > Jnr, Blake > Barclay.

by MacKnocked-on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:26 pm

Majestic83 wrote:A few surprises in that squad.
Main ones for me being no Ben Toolis in the 2nd row who for me has been one of the best performing players in the Pro 12 in recent months. Can vary his game from the physical enforcer to the athletic lock pretty well.
Surprised to see Alan Dell in there who has barely played this season due to injury. Thought Rory Sutherland might have been in with a shot as he has looked very good for Edinburgh.
Ally Strokosh is one very lucky man to be included. Has not been playing well at Perpignan in recent months and sadly is well past his best now.
One omission is Johnnie Beattie who I am slightly surprised at. Actually been in good form for Castres for the season run in and is one of the players who really helped them escape relegation.

Backs are fairly spot on, will be interesting to see how much Jackson has recovered from his knee injury as he had been expected to be out till Autumn time. Good to see Dunbar in there and hopefully they aren't rushing him too much.
The one back I'm slightly surprised to see overlooked is Dougie Fife who the new Scotland backs coach was really talking up last week. Surprising to see Rory Hughes in over him.
In some positions going to be a very tough job for Vernon to cut it down and pick a squad of 31.

I think Fife must have been regarded as a stopgap option during the 6Ns, Hoyland and Hughes must really be in for experience but it does show that we are struggling for back three options currently.

by Nematode Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:31 pm

Some interesting selections it seems.

1a) Why not have Harley, Pro12 winner, in the back row in place of Strokosch, and Toolis in the second row? After all, Toolis has done more this season than Gilchrist... And surely Kelly Brown...?

1b) The second-row is really not match fit. Gilchrist and Gray have missed quite large parts of the season and Harley hasn't played in the second row that much at all for the past season or two.

2) Including Hoyland and Hughes surprises me, although maybe Cotter doesn't want to risk the likes of Seymour/Hogg in some of the warm-up games? Tom Brown must feel a bit cheesed off at the fact Hoyland's got in. I'd feel more comfortable having Fife and Brown on the wings than Hughes and Hoyland at this early stage in their (latter's) careers.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:36 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Missed Dougie Fife - that certainly is a big omission given how little pro experience Hoyland (1 cap) and Hughes (7 caps) have!

I actually think that losing Fife and Beattie were genuinely form decisions and completely justified.

Let's be honest, both of them had a pretty bad 6 Nations.

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:38 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Missed Dougie Fife - that certainly is a big omission given how little pro experience Hoyland (1 cap) and Hughes (7 caps) have!
I actually think that losing Fife and Beattie were genuinely form decisions and completely justified.

Let's be honest, both of them had a pretty bad 6 Nations.

No denying that, but Strokosh didn't exactly contribute and we've already discussed some of the other wing options included over Fife (albeit they are no doubt only there for experience)

by jimbopip Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:43 pm

highland_scot wrote:Couple of surprises:

Barclay is back!
Scottish Rugby wrote:EXTENDED SCOTLAND SQUAD: RUGBY WORLD CUP 2015

- FORWARDS (25) -

Prop (7):
Mike Cusack (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 44 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 4 caps
No Doctor Cross, I have highlighted the five I would choose.
Hooker (3):
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 8 caps
Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 85 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped

Second-row (6):
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Richie Gray (Castres) – 44 caps
Jim Hamilton (Saracens) – 61 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors) – 15 caps
Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
Gray and Gray will be the first choice, Hagrid will be there as bulk is required for Samoa and Boks matches. It is unimaginable that Harley will not be taken.

Back-row (9):
Adam Ashe (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
John Barclay (Scarlets) – 43 caps; 4 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Hugh Blake (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Blair Cowan (London Irish) – 11 caps
David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Josh Strauss (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 44 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
No Fozzie!No KellyBrows!! Bluto is a definite. I think Jamesie Cotter will stick with Blair Cowan although personally I would go with Barclay (what is he calling himself on Twitter today? Former former international?)then Watson then Blake.

- BACKS (21) -

Scrum-half (4):
Chris Cusiter (Sale Sharks) – 70 caps; 6 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby) – 5 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 39 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
You know he will stick with Frodo, but I rate him fourth out of that lot.

Stand-off (3):
Ruaridh Jackson (Wasps) – 25 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 18 caps
If Rhuaridh is fit then Meatball misses out.

Centre (6):
Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 12 caps
Richie Vernon (Glasgow Warriors) – 20 caps; 3 RWC appearances (2011)
I have highlighted those able to walk unaided. If Matt Scott regains fitness he still has a long way to go to convince me after his appalling (by his standards) defensive displays in the 6Ns. Bennett and Dunbar will go if fit. Horne because he can cover 10 so Richie V could miss out. However we could end up going with Vernon, Horne, Taylor and a half fit Bennett.

Back-three (8):
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 32 caps
Damien Hoyland (Edinburgh Rugby) – Uncapped
Rory Hughes (Glasgow Warriors) – Uncapped
Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) – 93 caps; 8 RWC appearances (2007 and 2011)
Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 15 caps
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 18 caps

I have highlighted the players whose fitness and form merit inclusion.Seriously. Can you imagine Hughes-Visser-Tonks lining up against Samoa?

Injuries and form are the big concerns, we could have a very makeshift set of backs for the first two matches.
However, my biggest concern will be Jamesie Cotter signing "Stand By Your Man" as he gives the captain's armband to Frodo and tells Blair Cowan he can be pack leader.

Also, if Barclay is back...wither Rab C Johnson? Whistle

by Weegie Wizard Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:46 pm

Overall I'm reasonably happy with the sqaud, although the omissions of Toolis and Brown are strange. I though Fusaro might have played himself into contention over the last 3 or 4 weeks as well. Totally delighted to see Barclay back and I hope he takes the chance to play his way back into contention for the final squad. He only has himself to blame now.

Beattie was a huge dissapointment during the 6N and has paid the price. It is a real shame that such a talent might well retire without playing in a world cup.

In the backs, only Fife can really feel hard done by. Not because he has merited in to any great extent, but because there are others there (Hoyland & Hughes) who haven't either.

by Nematode Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:46 pm

Got to say having had time to think about the squad I'm a bit concerned VC knows his best 23 but hasn't really done his research into his best squad.

Surely if he had consulted with AS and GT, which you'd expect him to do, they would be promoting Fusaro, Grant, Fife, Brown as they had selected them repeatedly.

I just don't think players in the second division of French rugby should be being considered when there are players like Kelly Brown that are playing for the best team in England and have captained Scotland successfully before just left out.

Also I feel loyalty should be recognised (in the right way...). Chris Fusaro and Roddy Grant are stalwarts of Glasgow and Edinburgh, yet a player who AS & GT obviously didn't rate as highly, has got in. Maybe Hugh Blake is talented and it was just too near the end of the season to play him. But if that's the case, let him prove himself and play him in the 6N next year.

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:48 pm

Comparing this to Robinsons squads? Its a nobel prize winning masterpiece

by TJ Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:49 pm

Whats with Jedi? He doesn't seem to have much game time recently has he? Looks a good player but if he is not getting into his club side..........?

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:53 pm

SHC surely on form and fitness should be in your highlighted bunch too Jimbo?

I really hope we can see Finn Russel and SHC get game time together. That is the most potent halfback combination Scotland has had for years.

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:57 pm

Tell you what, the un-selected XV vs the 'worst' XV from that squad would be a pretty close game!

1 Sutherland v Dell
2 McArthur v McInally
3 Cross v Cusak
4 Eadie v Swinson
5 Toolis v Hamilton
6 Brown v Strokosh
7 Grant v Blake
8 Beattie v Denton

9 Hart v Pyrgos
10 Heathcoat v Weir
11 Brown v Hughes
12 Lyle v Horne
13 Grove v Taylor
14 Fife v Hoyland
15 Murchie v Tonks

The pack would certainly be quite a battle!

by jimbopip Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:57 pm

Mr Tode, if Hugh Blake had been with the Luvvies then he probably would have got some game time towards the end of the season but I think the stakes were just too high at Scotstoun : winning the league had to take priority.
Both Blake and Watson look real prospects and I wonder if Jamesie Cotter is being Machiavellian by including Barclay. This way he can say he has given him a fair chance to prove himself and decided to look to the future, while letting Rab C know who's boss. However, if Barclay knuckles down and plays to his ability he stays. Either way Cotter wins. Oh and Rab C gets put in his place.

by **RDW** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:Mr Tode, if Hugh Blake had been with the Luvvies then he probably would have got some game time towards the end of the season but I think the stakes were just too high at Scotstoun : winning the league had to take priority.
Both Blake and Watson look real prospects and I wonder if Jamesie Cotter is being Machiavellian by including Barclay. This way he can say he has given him a fair chance to prove himself and decided to look to the future, while letting Rab C know who's boss. However, if Barclay knuckles down and plays to his ability he stays. Either way Cotter wins. Oh and Rab C gets put in his place.

Blake was no where near the Edinburgh team given Grant and Watson's form!

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Mr Tode, if Hugh Blake had been with the Luvvies then he probably would have got some game time towards the end of the season but I think the stakes were just too high at Scotstoun : winning the league had to take priority.
Both Blake and Watson look real prospects and I wonder if Jamesie Cotter is being Machiavellian by including Barclay. This way he can say he has given him a fair chance to prove himself and decided to look to the future, while letting Rab C know who's boss. However, if Barclay knuckles down and plays to his ability he stays. Either way Cotter wins. Oh and Rab C gets put in his place.

Blake was no where near the Edinburgh team given Grant and Watson's form!

To be honest if end of season form is anything to go by Batman and Watson have been playing better than Barclay.

Barclay's versatility at Scarlets is a blessing / curse. He's a much better 7 than he is an 8 but has played a lot at number 8 this season.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:02 pm

So in my crapulent misguided opinion the best we can make out of that lot (assuming fitness) is:

01 Dickinson
02 Ford
03 Nel
04 J Gray
05 R Gray
06 Harley/Ashe
07 Barclay
08 Strauss

09 Clyne
10 Russell
11 Visser
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Reid
17 Brown
18 Cusack
19 Hamilton
20 Ashe/Harley/Wilson
21 Pyrgos
22 Weir
23 Maitland

by jimbopip Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:02 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:SHC surely on form and fitness should be in your highlighted bunch too Jimbo?

I really hope we can see Finn Russel and SHC get game time together. That is the most potent halfback combination Scotland has had for years.

Sorry Radge, old bean. I didn't highlight any of the 9's. I would take them all except for Frodo the Glacial. Sadly, Cotter is having him measured for the captain's armband as we speak. Samwise and Dancer is an exciting combination. We could use Cooseater as the wise old head to come on and steady the ship, while Henners Piecrust was immense in the run up to the end of the season. Frodo the Ponderous brings nothing to the table for me.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:05 pm

In defence of Laidlaw he was superb in the head to head between him and SHC in the Euro final. However he was afforded an absolute armchair ride by his pack and his sole purpose seemed to be get the ball to Hook as quickly as possible.

Given an armchair ride by the Scottish pack if you give him the same orders:

"Get the ball to Russel as quickly as possible" Laidlaw can do a job.

I still feel SHC has done more this year and TBH I would take Pyrgos before Cusiter.

by jimbopip Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:11 pm

George Carlin wrote:So in my crapulent misguided opinion the best we can make out of that lot (assuming fitness)That is a big assumption though, isn't it? is:

01 Dickinson
02 Ford
03 Nel
04 J Gray
05 R Gray
06 Harley/Ashe For the Boks/ Samoa games Ashe-Bluto-Batman. Bluto seems to play much better with at least one other big runner to share the load. Against Usa/Japan we could play a mobile 7 like Barclay or Watson. My fear is we go with Cowan and he looks really good only to be found out when it matters.
07 Barclay
08 Strauss

09 Clyne
10 Russell
11 Visser Can you see him standing his ground against rampaging Boks or Samoans?
12 Dunbar
13 Bennett
14 Seymour
15 Hogg

16 Reid
17 Brown
18 Cusack
19 Hamilton
20 Ashe/Harley/Wilson
21 Pyrgos
22 Weir Horne brings more versatility.
23 Maitland

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