ireland 6N warmdown and look ahead to RWC

First topic message reminder :



Two years in a row!! Both tournaments have been close run, but this team has come on leaps and bounds in the time Schmidt has been in charge. The team is playing with a confidence that has rarely been seen as consistently as this from past Irish teams, we can vary the gameplan to meet the needs of the contest, the new combinations are starting to gell, and we have genuine competition in most positions around the pitch.

So rather than scurrying around the rest of the forum attempting to put out fires that try to feebly illegitimise the championship win, I think we can look back on another positive campaign showing real growth but with plenty of areas for improvement.

Six Nations
Comfortable if not spectacular for the most part. The team looked in control in games versus Italy and France without impressing two much, both results felt like a job done. Against England and Scotland were the real high points. Ireland's plan of attack put England on the back foot for most of the game with Sexton and Murray managing the game brilliantly. Against Scotland it was great to see us play positive and expansive stuff, it is good to know we can play that ball in hand game and have the players to do so. The low point was the Wales game, but even then I feel the territory and possession Ireland had was encouraging, but there are lessons to be learned about finishing chances and adapting to the ref (although credit also to the Welsh defense who were immense).

The Squad
Front Row: McGrath has shown more evidence he is an able replacement to Healy, for me he is not that far off now and was unlucky to lose his place. Rory Best is fantastic in the loose and at the breakdown, but at times his throws can be suspect and Cronin is a great option to bring on and run the ball. Total turnaround for Mike Ross, had a very strong campaign I thought, and great there is finally an able body to come on in Marty Moore
Lock: POC is absolutely vital to the cause and I worry about the impact of his loss more so than BOD. Toner has become a beast in the last two years, but I would love to see what Henderson is capable of starting for Ireland. Getting the best locks in Ireland fit at the right times (Touhy and Ryan are both useful options) has been a problem but these three currently are head and shoulders above the challengers.
Back Row: One of our strongest positions in quality and depth. SOB grew into the tournament, Heaslip and POM work incredibly hard. Honorable mention to Murphy for his early performances which were very positive.
Half Backs: Sexton and Murray have to be the form pair in the world right now, blip against Wales aside. The drop off in quality from those two is a concern, although Reddan had a very strong cameo against Wales. The position of understudy for 10 is still very much up for grabs between Madigan, Jackson and Keatley. I feel the team need to bring on Marmion more as well.
Centres: Starting to get to know each other's games. Henshaw has been absolute quality in all performances, reliably outstanding. Payne has grown into the role and really shone against Scotland. I think there  may be options in coming through in Olding, McCloskey, Marshall and eventually Ringrose, and I'd say Henshaw may eventually move to 13 in green, but I'd wager the incumbents go into the world cup as 12 and 13.
Wings: Another area of strength, with some great variety in the options. Zebo was unlucky to miss out against Scotland but Fitzgerald made a real difference. Bowe for me has been solid but I think Trimble has been missed. Earls for me should be competing for this spot rather than at centre and I would like to see Gilroy push on from his early promise. I have slight concerns about how the wingers are slowly losing their creativity as they come into the set up a la Zebo, and would like to see them try something other than take the soonest contact and recycle
Full Back: Not sure about Rob. Not pulling up and trees but hasn't let anyone down either. I don't know if Jones offers much else that Kearney doesn't. I'd say there are more creative options in the wings that can play fullback in the Pro 12 but against the other 6Ns fullbacks I don't know when they could be blooded. Payne at 15 maybe?

World Cup
Anything other than a semi-final appearance would be a huge disappointment following the last two years of progress. A semi-final win at Twickers against England is certainly doable but it would be a big ask. Despite the last showing at a World Cup I am confident Ireland can go further this time.

Even if we're jinxed by keeping him...we'd hardly fall back down as low as 9th again under him???

Could we???

Oh Jesus.... I'm getting a little concerned now!!! - Maybe we'd drop out of the top 10 altogether if the f**king jinx was in a really playful mood.....

Thanks Joe, but one tour of duty is all we need from you.... bon voyage back to New Zealand after WC win.

Sin é wrote:

Schmidt was very quick to get the cheque book out to bring Brad Thorn in (dropping Toner) - something MOC hasn't done.

Then as Irish coach when stuck with Toner, he made a man of the tall lad Needs must. Clubs can buy, International coaches are kinda stuck with the ingredients on the shelves.

Sin é wrote:

It probably helped that Schmidt knew Clermont and their coach very well.

Schmidt was very quick to get the cheque book out to bring Brad Thorn in (dropping Toner) - something MOC hasn't done.

It probably helped more that he's one of the best coaches in the world.

I don't really know what your second point has to do with anything,MoC hasn't done lots of things that Schmidt did.Improving the skills of the players is something MoC hasn't done either,developing a gameplan that all his players can execute no matter who swaps in or out is something MoC hasn't done.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Notch wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32332220?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Fingers crossed

Do not mention the pre world cup contract extension jinx .......damn!!!!

It's definitely worth the risk. After the RWC he will have many other offers. Thats why we did the same thing with Kidney and O'Sullivan of course, but Schmidt would have more offers on the table than those two combined.

Sin é wrote:

Schmidt was very quick to get the cheque book out to bring Brad Thorn in (dropping Toner) - something MOC hasn't done.

I think that Toner has come on in leaps and bounds the last two years. He is much more physical and has become one of the best maul disrupters Ireland have so it stands to reason that he is being selected. I was originally one of his biggest critics but he has worked so hard on his game.

Undoubtedly New Zealand have already being dipping a finger in and seeing what his long term ideas are for his career (very unofficial of course), and trying to get an idea what would the ball-park figure be that he'd be looking for if they were interested towards the end of his contract with Ireland.

They won't be waiting until the contract elapses.  He probably popped back home already during his break and had casual chats either on phones or in person with people connected to the ABs.

So I think the IRFU realise their offer has to be pretty attractive.  Even if the ABs finally look elsewhere or hold onto Hansen, Schmidt has done enough already to up his global worth substantially.... club or International.  A big French side could offer him plenty to turn his back on International altogether.  And I wouldn't put it past him to accept.

SecretFly wrote:Undoubtedly New Zealand have already being dipping a finger in and seeing what his long term ideas are for his career (very unofficial of course), and trying to get an idea what would the ball-park figure be that he'd be looking for if they were interested towards the end of his contract with Ireland.

They won't be waiting until the contract elapses.  He probably popped back home already during his break and had casual chats either on phones or in person with people connected to the ABs.

So I think the IRFU realise their offer has to be pretty attractive.  Even if the ABs finally look elsewhere or hold onto Hansen, Schmidt has done enough already to up his global worth substantially.... club or International.  A big French side could offer him plenty to turn his back on International altogether.  And I wouldn't put it past him to accept.

I would,he's on record as saying international rugby appealed to him as it gave him time to spend at home since he has a very sick kid.He mentioned it again at the end of the 6N so I don't see him looking to dive back in to the full time aspect of club rugby if he doens't need to.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Undoubtedly New Zealand have already being dipping a finger in and seeing what his long term ideas are for his career (very unofficial of course), and trying to get an idea what would the ball-park figure be that he'd be looking for if they were interested towards the end of his contract with Ireland.

They won't be waiting until the contract elapses.  He probably popped back home already during his break and had casual chats either on phones or in person with people connected to the ABs.

So I think the IRFU realise their offer has to be pretty attractive.  Even if the ABs finally look elsewhere or hold onto Hansen, Schmidt has done enough already to up his global worth substantially.... club or International.  A big French side could offer him plenty to turn his back on International altogether.  And I wouldn't put it past him to accept.

I would,he's on record as saying international rugby appealed to him as it gave him time to spend at home since he has a very sick kid.He mentioned it again at the end of the 6N so I don't see him looking to dive back in to the full time aspect of club rugby if he doens't need to.

The money a French Club could offer him might change those views quickly.  

The obverse of what you say is that he's the kind of coach that doesn't seem to relax or truly want to relax.  He says he's exhausted all the time but it's a drug to him.  
And being removed from his Squad for so long at International level must be frustrating for such a passionate hands on coach. I'm sure he'd love to be able to bring his new little ideas here and there out on a weekly basis and give them a try and work on them and hone them.  At International he doesn't have that constant hands-on practical tool at his disposal to practice and test with.  I'd say that frustrates him, I'd say he misses it. Other coaches seem more passive and coach from the sidelines comfortably - so they don't mind waiting for International seasons. But you can see when Schmidt is coaching that he loves getting out there and involved at closer quarters.

I'm not saying he'll step back to Club but I certainly wouldn't be in the least surprised were it to happen.  He's a very bird-like character behind all the gentle placidity. That's why I mentioned it - to point out his edginess.  He's proven he jumps at sharp angles when he jumps.  He jumped into Ireland with one leg still thinking he should hang in with Leinster.  He jumped over to Leinster when his mind was plagued with doubts that he was doing the right thing. He's nervy but that makes him unpredictable.

SecretFly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Undoubtedly New Zealand have already being dipping a finger in and seeing what his long term ideas are for his career (very unofficial of course), and trying to get an idea what would the ball-park figure be that he'd be looking for if they were interested towards the end of his contract with Ireland.

They won't be waiting until the contract elapses.  He probably popped back home already during his break and had casual chats either on phones or in person with people connected to the ABs.

So I think the IRFU realise their offer has to be pretty attractive.  Even if the ABs finally look elsewhere or hold onto Hansen, Schmidt has done enough already to up his global worth substantially.... club or International.  A big French side could offer him plenty to turn his back on International altogether.  And I wouldn't put it past him to accept.

I would,he's on record as saying international rugby appealed to him as it gave him time to spend at home since he has a very sick kid.He mentioned it again at the end of the 6N so I don't see him looking to dive back in to the full time aspect of club rugby if he doens't need to.

The money a French Club could offer him might change those views quickly.  

The obverse of what you say is that he's the kind of coach that doesn't seem to relax or truly want to relax.  He says he's exhausted all the time but it's a drug to him.  
And being removed from his Squad for so long at International level must be frustrating for such a passionate hands on coach.  I'm sure he'd love to be able to bring his new little ideas here and there out on a weekly basis and give them a try and work on them and hone them.  At International he doesn't have that constant hands-on practical tool at his disposal to practice and test with.  I'd say that frustrates him, I'd say he misses it.  Other coaches seem more passive and coach from the sidelines comfortably - so they don't mind waiting for International seasons.  But you can see when Schmidt is coaching that he loves getting out there and involved at closer quarters.

I'm not saying he'll step back to Club but I certainly wouldn't be in the least surprised were it to happen.  He's a very bird-like character behind all the gentle placidity.  That's why I mentioned it - to point out his edginess.  He's proven he jumps at sharp angles when he jumps.  He jumped into Ireland with one leg still thinking he should hang in with Leinster.  He jumped over to Leinster when his mind was plagued with doubts that he was doing the right thing.  He's nervy but that makes him unpredictable.

I don't know if you have kids Fly but as a parent I can't see him ever going back to club rugby if he can find a job at international level.It's not like he's earning bad money as it is and an increase in job satisfaction might be nice but while I obviously can't speak for him I just don't see him leaving a situation where he has the best of both worlds.That's not to say he won't leave Ireland.

Oh my point is that simply I wouldn't be at all surprised by such a move.

I guess it partly down to what level of care he can provide for his son on the money the IRFU offers. I'd imagine what he earns is good enough to provide some care, but who knows...

Notch wrote:I guess it partly down to what level of care he can provide for his son on the money the IRFU offers. I'd imagine what he earns is good enough to provide some care, but who knows...

I'd say the IRFU help him in other ways there more than actually just his salary. I'm sure there'd be a huge medical circle of friends involved in rugby through IRFU, and spread worldwide, that would research and make contacts for him as he tries to get his son relief. I'd say there are people in IRFU doing some hands on work there for him. I actually would hope that kind of assistance is being given to him. He's helped so much to drag back up our enthusiasm and joy for rugby in this Nation since he arrived here.

Hey there Joe,
please don't go.
at the very least stay
until we can play
the old Leinster way.

The end.

MOC prays that prayer every night.
Joe ain't listened yet.

One more try at the weekend MOC. One more go.

For the back three, Kearney has been little more than going through the motions all season but will still go to RWC as first choice 15 with Payne and Madigan to slot in if he gets injured. A few years ago teams would be scared of kicking the ball to Kearney as he would damage them on the counter-attack. Now he simply runs into contact or hoists an up and under that is usually too long. Wish we had an alternative but Joe seems set on Payne as 13 and I don't think Jones is anything more than a solid Pro12 player.

For the wings, lot depends on whether Kearney and Jones are picked. If they are then only three wings - Bowe a certainty but after that a bit of a lottery. Assuming Trimble comes back the player he was then I'd take him and I think we would be mad not to pick Earls. Like Fitz a lot but if it's a choice between him and Earls then I'd take Earls. If Trimble is not the player he was when he comes back then Zebo back in contention while Gilroy has played some great stuff in the past few games.

More regular Ulster-watchers might be able to say whether Gilroy is up for the down and dirty side of the game - hitting rucks and getting involved in cleaning out etc, as well as his general defensive effort. We know Joe likes his wingers not to just hang around out wide and wait for the ball, he wants them involved. Zebo got that message and played his way back into the team, can Gilroy do the same.


On the wings, only certainty is Bowe - and I'd like to see Trimble

So what are we thinking about this BaaBaa's match?
The Leinster lot should be available (I know not a certainty) but who else?

Munster and Ulster have a fair chance of being involved right up to the end and Connacht could be part of the playoff for a Euro spot?

Who do we have apart from those guys at Leinster?
I'm thinking Niall Morris, James Hart, O'Leary or Stringer, Court, Hagan?????

Don't think Connacht will make that playoff. Don't see the point in picking guys who aren't even going to be considered for the World Cup, even as outside chances, and are playing outside Ireland.

If either Munster or Ulster or both are knocked out in the semi-finals, then I can see squad players who didn't start the semi being released but don't imagine players who start for their provinces getting the approval to play again just 4 or 5 days after the semi-final. So if Ulster go out before the Final you might see the likes of Robbie Diack and Rob Herring, but not Iain Henderson or Rory Best whatever happens. Schmidt being so keen on preparation is unlikely to rush guys back into the first XV after just one or two training sessions, even for a BaaBaas game, so expect fringe Ulster or Munster players coming in to be on the bench at best.

All signs point to a Leinster and Robbie Henshaw XV.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:So what are we thinking about this BaaBaa's match?
The Leinster lot should be available (I know not a certainty) but who else?

Munster and Ulster have a fair chance of being involved right up to the end and Connacht could be part of the playoff for a Euro spot?

Who do we have apart from those guys at Leinster?
I'm thinking Niall Morris, James Hart, O'Leary or Stringer, Court, Hagan?????

Those Leinster guys are being flogged to death (at International) and it won't help our cause to give them to every blasted International game.  What are we learning about depth in the event of injuries?  Nothing much.  Besides that, I genuinely think quite a number of Ulster and Munster players are now really showing they are in better form than those Leinster guys.  So what is international for?  I thought it was genuine shots for genuine contenders based on Provincial efforts?

But to tell the truth, I think it's true to say Munster and Ulster should be mostly allowed get on with their Provincial seasons.  It's important that one or both of those teams now push hard at the final hurdles.  But I don't think the usual Leinster suspects should be picked either for the Barbarians.  Let us see Schmidt do something more dynamic now and throw one or two Senior Stabiliers in with a batch of second stringers/fringers.  Let's perhaps be less serious about Ireland's 'serious tactics' and get a throw-the-ball-around team to see what we might do in a more perpetual motion style.  Probably 'Well Beaten' is what we'd be capable of - but still, I think Leinster/Ireland mainstays are the wrong side to give to the Barbarians.  We have enough warm-up games ahead.... too many in my mind.

McGrath
Strauss
Furlong
Toner
McCarthy
Ryan
O'Brien
Heaslip

Marmion
Madigan
Fitzgerald
Darcy
Henshaw
Leader
Morris

Buckley-?-Ross-Marshall-Murphy-Reddan-Carty-Kearney

Morris? As in Niall Morris? Surely the fact he is based overseas puts any one of Connachts young back three ahead of him. Healy, Leader, O'Hallornan- we've no need to resort to Morris. Even Michael Allen or Rory Scholes would be better options. Here's a flow chart of how I see it...



With Zebo, Gilroy, Bowe, Trimble, McFadden, Felix Jones and possibly Dave Kearney all looking set to be unavailable I'd rather we gave Matt Healy a shot instead of Niall Morris. It's a Barbarians game- give him a chance to show that pace he has. He's all flair. It'll be a great benefit to him. Sure, he's no more likely to be in the World Cup squad than Morris but he'll probably be with Emerging Ireland. Good experience for him and sends out the message that staying in the provinces brings rewards. Leader or O'Hallornan drops back to fullback, or else Rob Kearney plays.

Despite from your dodgy fullback choice, you're right about one thing; it would be the perfect game to start Marmion in Les Kiss was interviewed at HT in the Ulster game and said they'll be looking to try a few players out and I'll be hoping Marmion is one of them.

Notch wrote:Morris? As in Niall Morris? Surely the fact he is based overseas puts any one of Connachts young back three ahead of him. Healy, Leader, O'Hallornan- we've no need to resort to Morris. Even Michael Allen or Rory Scholes would be better options. Here's a flow chart of how I see it...



With Zebo, Gilroy, Bowe, Trimble, McFadden, Felix Jones and possibly Dave Kearney all looking set to be unavailable I'd rather we gave Matt Healy a shot instead of Niall Morris. It's a Barbarians game- give him a chance to show that pace he has. He's all flair. It'll be a great benefit to him. Sure, he's no more likely to be in the World Cup squad than Morris but he'll probably be with Emerging Ireland. Good experience for him and sends out the message that staying in the provinces brings rewards. Leader or O'Hallornan drops back to fullback, or else Rob Kearney plays.

Despite from your dodgy fullback choice, you're right about one thing; it would be the perfect game to start Marmion in Les Kiss was interviewed at HT in the Ulster game and said they'll be looking to try a few players out and I'll be hoping Marmion is one of them.

AMAZING FLOWCHAT

Joe included Morris in the Autumn International camp and I think part of the 6Nations camp but I can't be too sure on that.

I think he is a great player who has had a few injuries. Really like Matt Healy too, think he is a standout Connacht lad at the moment.

Luke injured again! Shoulder op this time. Leo says he should be ok for world cup though.

Luke, Luke............. use the force.

Everytime I hear his name mentioned these days I get the gut feeling that he had his chance and everything (timing, constant injury and still erratic form) keeps kinda telling him that the fates have lost patience.

I really don't know about Luke.  I'd obviously like to see him cut a dash at the WC - if the dash proved fruitful to us - but I can't really see it anymore.  I'd love to be proved wrong but .....

Sin é wrote:Luke injured again! Shoulder op this time. Leo says he should be ok for world cup though.

Think a few Leinster lads who need surgery done are just having it now with a view to the World Cup, same deal with Cronin and Moore. It might slightly imperil his World Cup hopes, but it sounds like something he needed done anyway not a fresh injury.

With Moore out, would be good to see Furlong start against the Barbarians. Adam Jones and Alex Cuthbert confirmed for the BaaBaas today, alongside David Smith, Joe Rokocoko and Rene Ranger. Beginning to look like a tasty back line lining up against us for that match.

What I would really like to see in this match, is Gordon D'Arcy lining up at 12 for the BaaBaas.

Looks like Cian Healy could be another who is on the treatment table for the summer.

Morris is the typical 'Downey' type of player who does well in the AP. Adjectives such as big, solid, strong, reliable, hard-working etc. spring to mind.
He's not going to light up any tournament but maybe solid is the thing that Joe wants? Healey is an exciting player but is all attack which may not suit Test rugby.

O'Connell apart, Iain Henderson and CJ Stander are the best players in the country right now - followed closely by Paddy Jackson and Conor Murray.

Joe Schmidt will have some serious selection headaches for both the RWC squad and next season after Mr Stander qualifies.

rodders wrote:O'Connell apart, Iain Henderson and CJ Stander are the best players in the country right now - followed closely by Paddy Jackson and Conor Murray.

Joe Schmidt will have some serious selection headaches for both the RWC squad and next season after Mr Stander qualifies.

They're certainly playing hard enough to catch Joe's attention, yes. Paddy especially knows he had to hit the ground running to put himself in contention.
But at the same time, after their Six Nations exertions, other 'nailed on's' are virtually sleeping through games as they wait for the WC. So all will become clearer when I'm sure sizeable International camps come together and we (don't) see what happens on the training fields. Joe will make his final decisions there.

I would say Joe already knows his squad fly. However Leinster's lethargic form the performances of some of the fringe guys in the end of season won't have gone unnoticed.

It's great to have a bit of competition - players will get injured too and there will be some retirements in the autumn I'd imagine.

Bar scrum half, where Reddan and Marmion are out of sorts and maybe fullback - there is real competition for places which is great.

rodders wrote:I would say Joe already knows his squad fly. However Leinster's lethargic form the performances of some of the fringe guys in the end of season won't have gone unnoticed.

It's great to have a bit of competition - players will get injured too and there will be some retirements in the autumn I'd imagine.

Bar scrum half, where Reddan and Marmion are out of sorts and maybe fullback - there is real competition for places which is great.

Oh it's wonderful to have competition Rodders.  Henderson is looking a bloody beast.  Great stuff.  Keep himself fit!  He'll be at the WC.  Jackson too looking really alert and up for the fight.

But as for Leinster - yes, it certainly hasn't gone unnoticed!!!!  That's the point.  
It's now so utterly comical that there just has to be other reasons for it.  There is no way a team can obviously forget so much about elementary rugby and try to pass off such absolute lethargy and lack of intensity as just them not getting their bits and pieces right week in and week out.  
I don't buy it.  It's a go-slow for whatever reason.  They'll either explode out of the post WC gates at the beginning of next season, with an unrecognisable O'Connor still in command of a much more ruthless gameplan OR, O'Connor will be gone before that new season starts.  Leinster are just comic now - not bad, not rusty, not clueless - just comic.  I think Joe will know exactly what's going on there - he's already fired a shot over MOC's bow....and he wasn't blaming the players.

You guys just keep O'Connor where he is - we wouldn't want him taking over the Ireland gig if Joe leaves ...

No...nothing so serious as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....

But there is talk that Kiss wants to stay in Leinster if an opening came up. And MOC being sent North instead to mind yous

Sayonara lads. We gotta share tings around, like.

Nooo!!!!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Looks like Connacht might be busy the weekend of the BaaBaa's fixture now due to Scarlets winning last night.....

So we could possibly have an out of form, injury depleted Leinster to take on a collection of insanely good Barbarians

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Oh well, - let MOC coach them coz he's at least more familiar with coaching out-of-form players.

Hell, just call it Leinster v Barbarians and have done with it.

My starting xv for RWC:-

Kilcoyne
Best
Ross
POC
Ryan
Henderson
SOB
Stander(for final)
Murray
Jackson
Gilroy
McCloskey
Henshaw
Bowe
Payne

Bench:- McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Touhy, POM, Boss, Sexton, Earls

rodders wrote:My starting xv for RWC:-

Kilcoyne
Best
Ross
POC
Ryan
Henderson
SOB
Stander(for final)
Murray
Jackson
Gilroy
McCloskey
Henshaw
Bowe
Payne

Bench:- McGrath, Cronin, Moore, Touhy, POM, Boss, Sexton, Earls

Have to say Rodders can't disagree with a lot of that selection.

Kearney has been sleepwalking through the season and is nothing like the player who was up there with the best 15's in the world not so long ago. All he does now is run the ball back straight into tackles. Give Payne or Zebo try at 15 in one of the warm-ups at least.
With Joe in the stand on Saturday, McCloskey picked a good time to put in a stormer of a performance, him and Henshaw together would scare a few
Even though he wasn't playing on Sat, Gilroy is the form winger in the country. Earls has to go as a 23 and ahead of the chasing pack
PJ's passing was superb on Sat and his goalkicking too, but some of his kicking out of hand was a bit off, still would start with Sexton with PJ on the bench. PJ miles ahead of Madigan and Keatley right now
At 9, after Murray we have damn all. Boss and Reddan too slow, Marmiom out of sorts although he seemed to play well when he came on on Sat (ok I know it was Zebre). Likewise, from the short highlights I saw Cooney seemed to play well
Sorry can't see Kilcoyne as a starting LH, if Healy is fit he plays with McGrath on the bench.
No arguments over the first two hookers - Besty and Cronin - if he talks a third hooker who? Schmidt, Casey?
TH - Ross, Moore (and Furlong if a third TH goes)
Second row - POC, Toner, Tuohy
Back row - SOB needs to cut out the cranky old man stuff and stick to what he's best at, Heaslip still starting no. 8. How to sort the Hendo/POM anachronism - haven't a clue - but great to have two superb 6's

Overall, only position I worry about is SH. If Murray picks up an injury we're up sh1t creek

brennomac wrote:SOB needs to cut out the cranky old man stuff and stick to what he's best at

Never a truer word spoken.  Glad someone else is picking up on that niggle frown of his always on display recently.  It's funny but until now I didn't realise that he reminds me of what Heaslip was like a good few seasons ago.  Heaslip went through a phase when he always seemed to be looking for trouble and was overly abrasive and confrontational without the need for it.  Thankfully he settled back down and regained a stoicism that is needed to carry off big games with composure.

SOB needs to get a grip, lose the attitude, play himself into the form he wants rather than trying to psychologically reach it with moans and whines and bad tempered nonsense.  He should just play the game he can play methodically and it'll happen.  No need to force it.

If I was playing for Leinster I'd probably have a frown too....

There's a lethargy and frownedness across the board at Leinster.

Apart from Isaac Boss and Jimmy Gopperth, coincidently or not 2 kiwis - no one else seems that bothered and most of the team seem to be going through the motions.

Ben Te'o tries a little too when one of his Kiwi friends pass it to him....

Fecking Kiwi traitors when Leinster lads are trying to fool the rest of the world into thinking they can't play.

I think Gopperth has got hard time. His distribution and game management isn't great but he's been one of the few Leinster players who's actually created things with the ball in hand and looked hungry.

Compare to the likes of Kearney and even McFadden, these guys are just going through the motions for me. Heaslip's been ok but not great and living of reputation a bit too.

That said I can see all the old faithful's peaking at the RWC and Joe going with a lot of familiar faces.

rodders wrote:I think Gopperth has got hard time. His distribution and game management isn't great but he's been one of the few Leinster players who's actually created things with the ball in hand and looked hungry.

Compare to the likes of Kearney and even McFadden, these guys are just going through the motions for me. Heaslip's been ok but not great and living of reputation a bit too.

That said I can see all the old faithful's peaking at the RWC and Joe going with a lot of familiar faces.

I agree with you rodders.  I've always stood up for him.  Gopperth is just an unfortunate bastard that he came to Leinster for Schmidt and got MOC.  Had he got Schmidt I think he'd have been part of something quite exciting.  I like him and a good coach could get bundles out of him - and will when he goes to Wasps!  They've bought a good one.  He just turned up at the wrong time when Leinster (under MOC) decided to go back into their box and play slog.

He's definitely done some rubbish things fly but he's done a lot of good things too - tries, goals, tackles - that have made a big contribution to Leinster's season. I think many Leinster fans and the media haven't acknowledged the good things he's done -and at the very least he's tried.

Definitely not good enough to fill Sextons boots but for me not to blame in anyway for Leinsters lack of creativity and attacking cohesion this year.

rodders wrote:He's definitely done some rubbish things fly but he's done a lot of good things too - tries, goals, tackles - that have made a big contribution to Leinster's season. I think many Leinster fans and the media haven't acknowledged the good things he's done  -and at the very least he's tried.

Definitely not good enough to fill Sextons boots but for me not to blame in anyway for Leinsters lack of creativity and attacking cohesion this year.

Different player completely to Sexton but no, I think he's got more than his fair share of criticism in his time when it's always been clear to everyone that Leinster (as a side) are playing too slow a game for his instincts.  That's all that's wrong.  

Yes he's made errors - which player is perfect?  None of them.  His have often been glaring because he's tended often to be the only player trying to introduce pace.  He was brought in FOR pace - Ford's 'chaos theory'.  You just look at him and you know that's his instinctive game.  MOC too was allegedly brought in for pace! But when players around you aren't supporting or following through with you, then you're exposed - and the headlights of shame can often fall on you.

But it's the team and MOCtactics that were letting Gopperth down, not the other way round.  That's all too clear in recent months.  He's often the only spark living in that drab excuse for a team. I'll be very surprised if we don't see him being utilised to his full potential at Wasps and we'll say to ourselves "You see? That's what Jimmy was capable of when playing in a genuine attacking team."

I think Leinster this year have looked a bit like Ireland under Kidney at the end.

There seems to be a similar, heads up, off the cuff philosophy of letting the players work out what's in front of them, from O'Conner and Kidney.

For me this only works when players are really familiar with each other and have a telepathic understanding, or you have real individual brilliance - otherwise you end up with this stuttering disjointed multiphase stuff, with slow ball as players don't know what they are supposed to do.

... or non-coaching is another word for it from MOC. Paid-To-Hold-Bibs coaching, as I call it.

I think "non-coaching" is the technical term, I'm just a layman fly ...

Anyone know when the RWC extended squad is announced and when the warm up games are? Man this year is dragging....

An awful lot of over-the-top praise for Jackson in press today. While he was mainly good on Saturday, Ulster should not have been under such pressure at home in Ravenhill. Munster contained their attack fairly easily. Imagine what the result would have been if Munster didn't lose Tommy O'Donnell (replaced by a 20 year old No. 8) and Simon Zebo (who would have had the measure of Tommy Bowe on that wing). With Tommy O'Donnell, Ulster would not have gotten as much quick ball as they did.