ireland 6N warmdown and look ahead to RWC

First topic message reminder :



Two years in a row!! Both tournaments have been close run, but this team has come on leaps and bounds in the time Schmidt has been in charge. The team is playing with a confidence that has rarely been seen as consistently as this from past Irish teams, we can vary the gameplan to meet the needs of the contest, the new combinations are starting to gell, and we have genuine competition in most positions around the pitch.

So rather than scurrying around the rest of the forum attempting to put out fires that try to feebly illegitimise the championship win, I think we can look back on another positive campaign showing real growth but with plenty of areas for improvement.

Six Nations
Comfortable if not spectacular for the most part. The team looked in control in games versus Italy and France without impressing two much, both results felt like a job done. Against England and Scotland were the real high points. Ireland's plan of attack put England on the back foot for most of the game with Sexton and Murray managing the game brilliantly. Against Scotland it was great to see us play positive and expansive stuff, it is good to know we can play that ball in hand game and have the players to do so. The low point was the Wales game, but even then I feel the territory and possession Ireland had was encouraging, but there are lessons to be learned about finishing chances and adapting to the ref (although credit also to the Welsh defense who were immense).

The Squad
Front Row: McGrath has shown more evidence he is an able replacement to Healy, for me he is not that far off now and was unlucky to lose his place. Rory Best is fantastic in the loose and at the breakdown, but at times his throws can be suspect and Cronin is a great option to bring on and run the ball. Total turnaround for Mike Ross, had a very strong campaign I thought, and great there is finally an able body to come on in Marty Moore
Lock: POC is absolutely vital to the cause and I worry about the impact of his loss more so than BOD. Toner has become a beast in the last two years, but I would love to see what Henderson is capable of starting for Ireland. Getting the best locks in Ireland fit at the right times (Touhy and Ryan are both useful options) has been a problem but these three currently are head and shoulders above the challengers.
Back Row: One of our strongest positions in quality and depth. SOB grew into the tournament, Heaslip and POM work incredibly hard. Honorable mention to Murphy for his early performances which were very positive.
Half Backs: Sexton and Murray have to be the form pair in the world right now, blip against Wales aside. The drop off in quality from those two is a concern, although Reddan had a very strong cameo against Wales. The position of understudy for 10 is still very much up for grabs between Madigan, Jackson and Keatley. I feel the team need to bring on Marmion more as well.
Centres: Starting to get to know each other's games. Henshaw has been absolute quality in all performances, reliably outstanding. Payne has grown into the role and really shone against Scotland. I think there  may be options in coming through in Olding, McCloskey, Marshall and eventually Ringrose, and I'd say Henshaw may eventually move to 13 in green, but I'd wager the incumbents go into the world cup as 12 and 13.
Wings: Another area of strength, with some great variety in the options. Zebo was unlucky to miss out against Scotland but Fitzgerald made a real difference. Bowe for me has been solid but I think Trimble has been missed. Earls for me should be competing for this spot rather than at centre and I would like to see Gilroy push on from his early promise. I have slight concerns about how the wingers are slowly losing their creativity as they come into the set up a la Zebo, and would like to see them try something other than take the soonest contact and recycle
Full Back: Not sure about Rob. Not pulling up and trees but hasn't let anyone down either. I don't know if Jones offers much else that Kearney doesn't. I'd say there are more creative options in the wings that can play fullback in the Pro 12 but against the other 6Ns fullbacks I don't know when they could be blooded. Payne at 15 maybe?

World Cup
Anything other than a semi-final appearance would be a huge disappointment following the last two years of progress. A semi-final win at Twickers against England is certainly doable but it would be a big ask. Despite the last showing at a World Cup I am confident Ireland can go further this time.

Sin é wrote:An awful lot of over-the-top praise for Jackson in press today. While he was mainly good on Saturday, Ulster should not have been under such pressure at home in Ravenhill. Munster contained their attack fairly easily. Imagine what the result would have been if Munster didn't lose Tommy O'Donnell (replaced by a 20 year old No. 8) and Simon Zebo (who would have had the measure of Tommy Bowe on that wing). With Tommy O'Donnell, Ulster would not have gotten as much quick ball as they did.

Not really - Jackson is the best distributing 10 Ireland have. If he can add a bit of mental steel to his place kicking then he's a serious asset for Ireland and a genuine successor to Sexton in a few seasons time.

Considering the number Munster did on Ulster's scrum, we finished the game with 14 and we were missing our top try scorer this season, I think our attack went ok against a full strength Munster side

In fact if Bowe had of held his depth when Cave and Jackson did the wrap around he may well have made Zeebo look as silly as he did Jones

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:An awful lot of over-the-top praise for Jackson in press today. While he was mainly good on Saturday, Ulster should not have been under such pressure at home in Ravenhill. Munster contained their attack fairly easily. Imagine what the result would have been if Munster didn't lose Tommy O'Donnell (replaced by a 20 year old No. 8) and Simon Zebo (who would have had the measure of Tommy Bowe on that wing). With Tommy O'Donnell, Ulster would not have gotten as much quick ball as they did.

Not really - Jackson is the best distributing 10 Ireland have. If he can add a bit of mental steel to his place kicking then he's a serious asset for Ireland and a genuine successor to Sexton in a few seasons time.

Considering the number Munster did on Ulster's scrum, we finished the game with 14 and we were missing our top try scorer this season, I think our attack went ok against a full strength Munster side

In fact if Bowe had of held his depth when Cave and Jackson did the wrap around he may well have made Zeebo look as silly as he did Jones

Ulster were playing at home. You haven't lost a home game this season. Munster were missing one of our first team backrowers, Tommy O'Donnell from 3 minutes in. Henderson was on 73 minutes. Munster contained Ulster (which is what you do when playing away from home). We also lost Simon Zebo about 25 minutes in who is also a first teamer.

I just think that while PJ played well, he is hardly the messiah. It was a much more difficult game for Keatley as he was away from home and under pressure to perform to so that Munster would get a home semi final.

Obviously that pressure cuts both ways though. Jackson was also under a huge amount of pressure given the importance of the game and the fact he was kicking at goal in a match for the first time since January. I thought Ulster attack went fairly well- to create nine line breaks and four or five clear cut scoring chances against a team like Munster is pretty good, whilst only taking two of those chances is not good enough; but the handling and offloading errors that that stopped us capitalising more on our nine line breaks had little to do with Jackson. Actually think you'd be better off pointing out that Ulster spent too much time attacking from within their own half and question whether Jackson did enough as a tactical kicker to get us into the right parts of the field because in attack he was beyond reproach.

Look, the truth is when players play very well they get exaggerated praise and when they play poorly they get exaggerated criticism. But Jackson has been in extremely good form. He's not the messiah, he's just the best 10 in Ireland for taking the ball to the line, creating space for the men outside him and picking the best pass- at least until Sexton gets back. He deserves praise because god knows he's had enough criticism when it wasn't really warranted, but the reality check needs to be about the consistency of his tactical kicking and whether he can prove he can kick as consistently well as he did last weekend in every game, which is still a massive unanswered question.

He's obviously pretty much a certainty for the RWC because Madigan is playing out of position and erratically and Keatley is, well, Keatley (meh) but we can still clearly see he has a lot to prove in the warm-ups and weaknesses to work on. While he's well on his way to fully re-establishing himself as Sextons back-up I'm still not entirely comfortable with the cover we have despite that.

Jackson has looked fantastic since returning from injury. He is adding to his game as well, he is more threatening with ball in hand, really taking it to the line. In a few years time, if he continues in the same vein, he will be the starting irish 10. The likes of JJ have a mountain to climb now to overtake him.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The likes of JJ have a mountain to climb now to overtake him.

"Just PJ's dead body" says JJ with a sneer as he throws his poncho to one side.

He would have found that much easier had he decided to stay in the country.

I suppose so. But I think he was led in cuffs to the plane so.....................

Must have been watching a different game. Two brain farts from Munster in an otherwise pretty controlled game. Jackson played well but still in the pack with Madigan.

Don't sully Jackson. Madigan isn't in much of a pack these days.

Jackson has always been really good at standing flat and distributing, he's just hitting a good run of form but there is nothing new there.

Sexton is the best short passing 10 in the NH but doesn't have the longer range passing that ROG, Humphries or even Madigan had/have.

Jackson has both and guys like Gilroy and Marshall are different players when he plays.

If he could improve his place kicking and get a bit more range from his kicking from hand he'd be Irelands no 2 no 10 by some distance for me - at least until JJ gets some regular rugby somewhere.

Madigan has had a poor second half to the season but his goal kicking percentages make him hard to leave out. I think Keatley is underrated but don't have confidence in him to deliver in the biggest games.

Depends on whether leaving Ireland will rule JJ out of contention. Long term I expect him to come back and play test rugby though.

Jackson looks good in attack but I think the Ulster centres are significantly more creative than those at Leinster and Munster. Cave and Payne certainly played to PJ's strengths on Saturday, whereas Hurley and Smyth were very quiet in attack and didn't give Keatley much help.

theslosty wrote:Jackson looks good in attack but I think the Ulster centres are significantly more creative than those at Leinster and Munster. Cave and Payne certainly played to PJ's strengths on Saturday, whereas Hurley and Smyth were very quiet in attack and didn't give Keatley much help.

I think if you check Craig Gilroy's strike rate with or without Jackson you'll see a big difference. His ability to bring in the blindside wing and pick the right pass is top class - only George Ford and Matt Gateau are comparable in the NH for me at this.

Hoping McCloskey will get a start against Glasgow to have a go at that 'bolter' slot.

Don't expect him to make the 30-man squad, but even if he was able to make the extended squad and play some part in the warm-ups that would be fantastic for him.

Womens RWC being hosted in Ireland in 2017

rodders wrote:Womens RWC being hosted in Ireland in 2017

Hopefully there'll be a few games at Ravenspan to get along to

It's going to be renamed RavishinWan for the duration of the RWC to make sexist feel more at home.

Of course this means we probably won't be getting the men's WC...consolation prize.

Notch wrote:

rodders wrote:Womens RWC being hosted in Ireland in 2017

Hopefully there'll be a few games at Ravenspan to get along to

The final is there!

Result! Only way I'm ever going to get to a World Cup Final

Just met Joe Schmidt at Heathrow airport departing for Dublin, you'll be happy to know he had the laptop and pad out and was working away

What was he in Heathrow (London) for?????

The PLOT Thickens!!!!!!!!!

Just as I suspected.

The Truth will come out in the Rugby Paper next Thursday.

You're all not going to like it.

Emerging Ireland team announced.

Stringer off to Sale...

rodders wrote:Emerging Ireland team announced.

Stringer off to Sale...

So that's it.  Unlikely he'll get to end his career back home now.  The IRFU are right bastards when all is said and brushed under the carpet.....

Hey don't shoot the messenger man. I wouldn't wish anyone to live in Manchester.

rodders wrote:Hey don't shoot the messenger man. I wouldn't wish anyone to live in Manchester.

Damn you, Rodders, I was going to use that line on another thread in a few minutes if I got the retort I'm expecting. You've ruined it now. Can't be mimicking someone else so soon after the event.

Double shoot!