Tonight's Action

First topic message reminder :

Anybody stayed up for this then?

Andy Lee up first.

Tunes; Herrera and Theophane.

Herman; im not sure that many are for 24 hour weigh ins, im not and have always considered them a knee-jerk reaction.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Haven't seen the fight yet but by Garcia's comments- 'the weight has been affecting my performances,' sounds like he's been fortunate again. Although you see the odd whisper he hasn't been quite the same since  Matthysse. Not saying there's any truth in that mind.

It does rankle however how fighters are allowed to rehydrate so that invariably these days  they are coming into a bout weighing one and sometimes even two weight classes above. The disparity in weight that can occur between two opponents is also a cause for irritation.

I think most of us are all for 24hr weigh ins which are clearly a whole lot safer but is it now time to readdress the whole situation and introduce as standard rehydration limits, say 10lbs?

Well, yeah but Adonis Stevenson rehydrating more than 10lbs is a lot different from Kazuto Ioka rehydrating 10lbs. Needs to be some kind of percentage with the weights. But I do agree, it can be ridiculous the advantage at times with certain fighters.

Why fighters like Golovkin are so special, hardly rehydrates much and is still able to push larger fighters onto the back foot.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes; Herrera and Theophane.

Herman; im not sure that many are for 24 hour weigh ins, im not and have always considered them a knee-jerk reaction.

You in for same day weigh ins Hammer?

Not a good thing if a fighter depletes himself of the fluid around the brain. Not a good thing at all.

I'm for them. I don't think same day weigh ins would do anything but get fighters to come up with more haphazard ways to rehydrate. That and make guys like Ariza and Garcia a lot of money for their services

Garcia just seems to be the slippery snake of boxing at the moment, doesn't matter how bad he fights, he manages to always come away with the win. Peterson looked massive in there, doesn't seem the same guy that got sparked by Matthysse in three pretty decisive rounds.

Mclellen, Watson and Ingle are just three examples of boxers injured due to dehydration, all 24 hour weigh ins I believe.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Mclellen, Watson and Ingle are just three examples of boxers injured due to dehydration, all 24 hour weigh ins I believe.

'due to rehydration'

Eh? Not sure I fully understand what what you mean. What so the rehydration caused the injury???

I'm sure Benn smashing McLellan on the back of the head had something to do with it also :P

Bit of dyslexia there Herman?

It is a strange defence though. A couple fighters failing to rehydrate properly doesn't make rehydration bad, anymore than a couple people who died running a red light makes traffic lights unnecessary.

I think he is suggesting that 24 hour weigh ins hasn't improved safety but merely allowed fighters to go to more extreme weight cutting measures. Mclellan without 24 hours weigh ins would probably be a pretty big light heavy but the 24 hour rehydration period allowed him to cut down to super middleweight. it's also dangerous for other fighters who can't cut weight or hydrate very well. They get splattered by someone who is in reality two weights above

The Matthyse fight took a lot out of Garcia. I dont think he has been the same since.

Aplogiies to Hammer there.

Seriously , how can we say that McClellan was dehydration?

Always thought it was supposed that he'd been getting headaches and blurred vision for weeks in the run up to that fight. Not good when you're fighting one of the division's most devastating hitters who just happened to hate your guts.

AlexHuckerby wrote:I'm sure Benn smashing McLellan on the back of the head had something to do with it also :P

It's also ultimately what killed Duk Koo Kim and Johnny Owen but as boxing fans we try to look past the brutality and find something else that caused the final outcome.

From watching the documentary on the Benn/McLellan fight and it's aftermath you get an indication of quite how badly he messed up making weight, to such an extent his weight bombed two pounds under the limit.

I see no real benefit to 24 hour weigh ins or a reduction to 12 round fights to the boxers themselves, it helps the networks with their promotional drive and fight night advertising but that is about it.

Same day weigh ins are much better. I can see the theory nehind the 24 hour weigh ins but it was never intended to be exploited the way it is now. With so many weight divisions there should no excuse for boxers draining themselves down too such extremes and piling it back on. I dont think this has improved safety at all. No boxers should be figting in a division that he cant make weight and fight on the same day in. A buffer of a couple pounds might be acceptable but the carry on we have now is ludicrous.

Not quite Herman he was cutting weight from cruiser down to middleweight and got blasted in the head repeatedly by Jackson then he moved up and still struggled to make weight. If he had managed to take out Benn after 6 rounds we may never have known and he 2 old have been hurt in the next fight.

F* ck you autocorrect. Would* have been hurt in the next fight that went some distance.

Alternatively, there is no reason to assume that with same day weigh ins Mclellen would have fought at 175lbs. If anything, the fact that he didn't rehydrate like he could with a 24-hour cushion indicates that he would almost certainly still have fought at 168.

Boxing has no guarantees. Got to remember that Stiverne came in at a soft 240lbs, didn't have to cut, and he was badly dehydrated against Wilder. 24 hour weigh ins give as much insurance as anything. I do agree that it can lead to mismatches - Garcia was at best a small light middleweight against a middle range super middleweight, but that's on the organisations to fix. No reason why it can't be limited to a 5% weight limit. Long as you didn't cut any corners, and are fighting at something resembling your natural weight, can't think of a reason to need more.

Actally mate he put all his weight back on but it didn't hydrate him properly as it was too much. No way in hell could he fight at middleweight or super middleweight on same day weigh ins when he was weighing at cruiser come fight night.

Mate, he never fought at cruiser. I'm not even sure he ever fought at 175lbs. He might not have weighed at cruiserweight on same day weigh ins. But you're showing never before seen powers in drawing a timeline where he would actually be fighting at the 200lbs limit. No more so than supposing Peterson's fight Night weight means that he would be fighting Froch in the era of same day weigh ins

Really enjoyed Lee's fight last night and his performance. He seemed to take 6 rounds to work Quillin out but I thought he controlled him after that and I gave him all the last 6. One of my favourite fighters at the moment is Lee.


I think I may have vastly overrated Quillin's chances v GGG. Only one fight I know but I remember being more impressed with him than that. Lee might be his best opponent so far so that may have something to do with it.

The best fights at middle will probably come from the best of the rest now. Either of these in with Golovkin would take a Martin Murray type of beating.

I tell you something, Lee would probably get knocked out by Golovkin but he's the only guy I think would have a serious shot at taking him, that right hook is a rocket. If he catches you you're in trouble, and I can see him being smart enough to land it. Just don't think he would and Golovkin gets to him.

I dont think Lee would last 3 rounds with Golovkin. Quillen a bit longer but wouldnt see the final bell. Neither guy could take the kind of walloping Murray got for 10 rounds.

But Lee is much better equipped in terms of foot speed like Murray wasn't. He can move away from the attacks much better than anyone he's faced. Lee was so sharp last night, and if you don't think he could tag Golovkin coming in fair enough, but Rosado caught him clean with a fair few, he's constantly coming forwards so he's going to get hit. Lee's righthook can take anyone down.

Looking forward to catching this on YouTube. Lee isn't in a bad fight these days is he? Serious dig on him but equally he has his vulnerabilities.

I wasnt really impressed with either boxer last night. I thought Quillen threw it away a bit by doing next to nothing in so many rounds and letting Lee nick them by doing not a lot. I would give them no chance whatsoever against Golovkin. Lee wouldnt have seen the fourth round. Walked down and taken out inside 3 for me.

Really Catchweight... I think Lee's come a long way. Remember he was scraping a come from behind win against Craig McEwan to keep his career alive after a terribly sloppy performance. Now he's outboxing Quillin for large stretches and looked incredibly sharp and using his physicalities to the max. He takes risks but that's what he's gotta do, good fighter Lee now, Booth has done a quality job with him must be said.

I wouldn't say he was outboxing Quillin myself Alex, he was just throwing a few more punches and in truth both of them performed very poorly, neither of them seemed to want it after seven rounds.

I'd love to have the optimism to give Lee a chance but I just can't see it. GGG wouldn't stand off him like Quillin did for most of the fight. Lee would have to catch him with the right hand very early to deter him. It would probably go similar to the Chavez fight but with Lee being bullied and stopped much earlier.

I'd love to see a Froch Groves 1 type of moment with Lee catching GGG in the first round but that's basically nonsense.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I wouldn't say he was outboxing Quillin myself Alex, he was just throwing a few more punches and in truth both of them performed very poorly, neither of them seemed to want it after seven rounds.

I must have been watching a completely different fight. The Lee I saw in there was a sharp tricky customer who was giving it his absolute all. I would say there were long stretches of outside boxing and Lee's timing was terrific with his straight left at times, he darted in and out very effectively and I felt like he had Quillin almost figured out towards the end. Gave him nearly all of the last 6.

Nah we are seeing different fighters obviously. Lee isnt all that good. The two fights previous to last night he was losing handily and turned around via a big punch. Fair play. Last night I dont think he was all that sharp. He was in against a guy who threw very little and the little he did throw caused him alot of bother. Hes churning out results so good luck to him but he hasnt a hope against Golovkin on the basis of what I have seen.

Not for me, he set Korobov up. Korobov kept pulling out with his head in the air, Lee took advantage and slammed him with a right hook.

The fight I saw last night was two boxers wary of each others power and reluctant to lead. Quillen built up a commanding lead over the first 6 rounds and then allowed Lee back into the fight by trying to protect his lead and win rounds with single shots. Lee was able to claw his way back into into by outworking Quillen without ever really having to commit. Quillen boxed pretty horribly over the last 6 rounds. Both boxers were really tentative for a championship fight. A draw was a fair result. I think Quillen let the fight slip away rather than Lee taking control.

According to Compubox numbers they threw 566 punches between them, make of that what you will.

Andy Lee probably threw 490 of them as well.

It was a poor fight all things considered.

I'm a little bit in the middle of you lads on this one. I think both fighters showed plenty of impressive stuff last night which evidenced that they've probably developed in to better fighters than I personally imagined them to be (well, Lee certainly has done). Problem is, each guy only showed it for half the fight apiece - Quillin in the first half, Lee in the second. The other halves showed why Golovkin would still likely beat them and beat them well.

Alex, it's interesting that you're giving Lee a chance (within reason!) against Golovkin based on the fact that he's got that knack of measuring fighters and getting them coming on to his power shots, but not Quillin. 'Kid Chocolate' might not have a highlight reel KO to match Lee's of Jackson but on the evidence of last night you could argue that he was the puncher of the pair as his knockdown in the first round was certainly heavier than the one Lee scored with (I still feel pretty sure that without the timely intervention of the bell, Lee would have been stopped there) and he went on to stiffen Lee visibly a couple times more over the next few rounds. Lee landed some good shots as the fight progressed from there but aside from the knockdown, which wasn't a particularly heavy one, I never really got the impression he'd hurt Quillin.

It was an excellent fight for seven rounds, but tapered off from there as both men were answering each other's right hand with their own so often they both became a bit weary of letting the big shots go. But in fairness when it became that kind of fight Lee settled down and started landing that straight left quite regularly and widened that stance to force Quillin in to having to committ and leave himself open as he tried to bridge the range by force - which he didn't seem willing to do. Maybe the weight problems contributed to that low output, mind you. But Quillin's jab was non-existent and I think Lee just did enough tidy boxing at range, unspectacular and basic though it was, to justify taking most of the late rounds.

Can't see much in either man's performance that would have Golovkin too concerned, personally, but nor were they to be sniffed at.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Khan deserves shooting for losing to both of these guys.

Theophane, Herrera and now Peterson, starting to reassess the Judah, Khan and Matthyse fights now as well.

I'm sure I pointed out that Mathysse getting injured changed the direction the Garcia fight was heading and you argued the toss that it wasn't?

kingraf wrote:Mate, he never fought at cruiser. I'm not even sure he ever fought at 175lbs. He might not have weighed at cruiserweight on same day weigh ins. But you're showing never before seen powers in drawing a timeline where he would actually be fighting at the 200lbs limit. No more so than supposing Peterson's fight Night weight means that he would be fighting Froch in the era of same day weigh ins

I understand that but it's very unlikely they could cut down that much and still fight on the same day. I drawing lines on what might happen but the fact is 24 hour weigh ins have encouraged bigger fighters who aren't really that good to cut down crazy levels of weight so they can beat seven shades of Poopie out of natural guys at the weight. I know I'm using a lot of supposition and that maybe they would get him down to that weight and fight. But if he stayed at that weight there's a very good chance he wouldn't make it past the first few decent opponents and he would either have to stop cutting so much or be weeded out with the other fighters who couldnt handle fighting at their own natural weight.

I think we did a thread on it a couple of years back who would be the losers if they switched to same day weigh ins and I believe Hatton featured prominently in that discussion

O could be wildly wrong and Mclellan would have taken that risk anyway but I think he only took the risk because of the 24 hour period in which he had time to rehydrate. It would be mad to do it when you haven't got the time to recover.

I predicted a Peterson SD because I felt that Matthyse took something vital from Garcia for a myriad of reasons chiefly that they didn't take advantage of the excellent publicity following the fight. thought he'd been Camacho'd.

Dont see what Lee or Quillen bring to trouble GGG, his biggest threat imo is Lemieux as he's the biggest banger in the division. I agree with the others that both showed their strengths and their weaknesses

Quillen is accurate, has very good power but is a bit slow, little movement and low work rate. Remember his fight against n'dam he had him down 6 times in three if the riunds, but probably lost all bt 1 or 2 of the remaining 9 rounds. GGG wont be worried by his power and given GGG's pressure and body punching cant see Quillen lasting too long

Lee is long, rangy, has good movement and a big right hook, but is open to right hands, is easy too get into a war and easy to hurt. GGG walks through him whenever he wants he wont be worried by anything lee brings and if Chavez can wear him down GGG deffo will

Garcia-Peterson actually surprised me. Danny normally ups it to the level of his opposition so should've walked through Peterson, but he never got into it and looked totally confused by petersons movement. Struggle to see him at 147 effectively, think his power is overated and while he's fundamentally sound he hasn't shown anything close to world class since the matthysse win which i agree has taken something from him. Garcia vs Maidana could be fun, garcia has a solid set of whiskers and is an entertaining fighter normally

Surprising how much worse looked when Peterson started coming at him. Peterson tends to stay out the way early due to his early KD habit, and Garcia's better when they come at him, but he looked weak and clueless.

After the Halt fight Peterson was supposed to be new, improved, bigger, stronger and still got utterly trashed by Matthysse. Him v the loser of Mathysse v Provodnikov would be fun.


The commentary was truly awful though. Hugely biased in favour of Peterson in the first half, and according to Rawling Garcia only knows one way to fight, to churn forwards and slug out the result. Even though he's clearly a counterpuncher on his best nights.

Yeah, mentioned that myself as the fight was unravelling, JBW. Not sure why the "smooth voice of boxing" Rawling and Jones were so keen to favour Peterson but they did go a little over the top in extolling the brilliance of his performance.

That particular comment about Garcia was enough to make me wonder if Rawling had ever actually watched him fight before last night.

Garcia has been inconsistent ever since he hit the world ratings, really. Unconvincing performances where he looked very beatable against Holt, Morales (I) and Judah were mixed in with excellent showings where he really rose to the occasion, sometimes against the odds against Khan, Morales (II) and Matthysse.

But at least during that period he was still finding ways to win without any controversy even if he was having a bit of an off-night. Twice in a row against solid opposition now I feel he's lost the fight. I find it incredible that in the Herrera and Peterson fight, not a single card out of the six in total has gone against him.

The world was his oyster eighteen months ago but that momentum has depleted quite a bit in the meantime, and if as the rumours suggest the networks and Haymon were thinking about throwing him the Mayweather gig in September (on the proviso that Floyd beats Manny, of course) then I think they're going to have to reconsider, as right now I imagine the reaction and subsequent sales for that fight wouldn't be much to write home about.

Think Matthysse may have jumped back to the top of the lightwelterweights without doing anything himself

Garcia, khan, bradley, alexander, maidana are all at 147 to stay now and cant see peterson changing anything against matthysse second time around

Matthysse, Broner and the emergence of Crawford and maybe even Mikey garcia brings a new edge to 140

Think that extra toe is his good luck charm!

John Bloody Wayne wrote:The commentary was truly awful though. Hugely biased in favour of Peterson in the first half, and according to Rawling Garcia only knows one way to fight, to churn forwards and slug out the result. Even though he's clearly a counterpuncher on his best nights.

Halling has probably spent too long washing Eddie's cars...

"He's a respected opponent Jim"

"He's made a statement"

Barker v Geale "He's giving him a count Jim that's an absolutely disgrace".............."Oh yes it was a body shot but the referee was blocking our view!!"

Guy is a puke stain on the face of British Boxing..

We're not talking about Halling Truss.

I'm getting old....