Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

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Edinburgh Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons
Friday 17 April 2015
KO 19:45
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: JP Doyle
AR1: Luke Pearce
AR2: Marius Mitrea

*****
Teams:

Edinburgh Rugby
15. Jack Cuthbert
14. Dougie Fife
13. Sam Beard
12. Andries Strauss
11. Tim Visser
10. Phil Burleigh
09. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. WP Nel
04. Anton Bresler
05. Ben Toolis
06. Stuart McInally
07. Roddy Grant
08. Mike Coman (c)

16. Neil Cochrane
17. Rory Sutherland
18. John Andress
19. Fraser McKenzie
20. Cornell Du Preez
21. Nathan Fowles
22. Tom Heathcote
23. Tom Brown

Newport Gwent Dragons
15 Jason Tovey
14 Tom Prydie
13 Tyler Morgan
12 Jack Dixon
11 Hallam Amos
10 Dorian Jones
09 Jonathan Evans

01 Brok Harris
02 T. Rhys Thomas (c)
03 Dan Way
04 James Thomas
05 Cory Hill
06 Nick Crosswell
07 Nic Cudd
08 Taulupe Faletau.

16 Rhys Buckley
17 Phil Price
18 Lloyd Fairbrother
19 Matthew Screech
20 James Benjamin
21 Luc Jones
22 Ashton Hewitt
23 Geraint Rhys Jones

*****
Couldn't wait any longer to start this thread.

Absolutely bouncing for Friday. First semi final for 8 years and hoping we can go one better. Dragons have just announced a third coach of supporters booked for the trip which, given the short notice, is a great effort.

We are coming in off a bonus point win against pro12 champions Leinster (while being 22-8 down at one point), have won four on the bounce and have a great team spirit of young Welshmen from around the region with a sprinkling of gnarly pros.

Bouncing

bedfordwelsh wrote:We still need to get our set piece sorted, its been better this year (hard not to be) but it was very very poor tonight.

I think it didn't really help you having to do with a back row (who had a great game btw) in the boiler house as well as having your tighthead on a side he clearly isn't very confortable at. Missing your 1st choice loosehead greatly reduced your chance of a win.

VinceWLB wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:We still need to get our set piece sorted, its been better this year (hard not to be) but it was very very poor tonight.

I think it didn't really help you having to do with a back row (who had a great game btw) in the boiler house as well as having your tighthead on a side he clearly isn't very confortable at. Missing your 1st choice loosehead greatly reduced your chance of a win.

Stankovich, Landman and Coombs would have at least strengthened those areas and who knows what that might have done but with Price on the bench it was strange to start Harris and Way.

Fantastic night at Murrayfield - completely dominated in pretty much every facet of play, with some wonderful tries to boot.

Toolis, Coman, Sam, Burleigh superb.

Credit to the travelling dragons fans too - they made a lot of noise and helped create a decent atmosphere.

Most importantly, I've got tickets for the final!

Well done to both sides - Edinburgh for executing a game plan well and the Dragons for sticking with it in very tough circumstances. Edinburgh should be looking forward to the final - I wouldn't care if it's the Chiefs or the Cherries.

Heart wants to see Laidlaw match up against Clyne and hope that Cotter is watching.

Clyne is way ahead IMO.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Clyne is way ahead IMO.

Yep - that's what we are hoping Cotter will eventually realize.

George Carlin wrote:....and hope that Cotter is watching.

If he isn't he needs to be sacked instantly.

Congratulations, Edinburgh. Dominant pack, well-executed game plan and a half-decent scrum half!

For the Dragons, I hope this doesn't take the wind out of our sails for the Pro 12 run-in.

8200 crowd - not bad! Would have been good to get more but that is what we all thought would be a decent crowd.

Decent atmosphere too - helps when you're winning!

SecretFly wrote:

George Carlin wrote:....and hope that Cotter is watching.

If he isn't he needs to be sacked instantly.

Similar case was when Watson totally outplayed Cowan hope he was watching that. Also when was the last time Beattie had a decent game? Swinson ahead of Toolis... what are the odds Murray get selected ahead of Nel? I think it's fair to say Cotter hasn't impressed me with some of his selections.

VinceWLB wrote:
Similar case was when Watson totally outplayed Cowan hope he was watching that. Also when was the last time Beattie had a decent game? Swinson ahead of Toolis... what are the odds Murray get selected ahead of Nel? I think it's fair to say Cotter hasn't impressed me with some of his selections.

I think the fact that Nel isn't Scotland-qualified yet might just explain why Cotter hasn't picked him...

Random comment, but bumped into Nathan Hines tonight. Just up to watch the game apparently?

Tell you what, could be some tough selection decisions for the final - Denton, Du Preez, Coman, Grant and Watson all likely to be fit. One will miss out!

Commiserations dragons fans. You are a credit to your team and welcome back any time. I was sitting near the big group of dragons in the upper tier and you guys cheered your lads on till the final whistle.

Embra. Set piece dominant. Toolis, what a lad. To come from nothing to the cornerstone of our pack in half a season... I only hope his brother is half is half the player he is. Hidalgo Clyne did what we knew he would if playing behind a dominant pack, burleighs the Controll at stand off was top notch, but my mom was coman. He's taken a lot of stick (from me iincluded) but he had such a tidy game tonight Co.pared to big carry but major Frak up dents.

Just back from murrayfield. Very impressive performance from edinburgh, especially the pack. Scrum absolutely destroyed the dragons scrum nearly every time, so much so it looked like a scrum training session. Dickinson and Nel were v impressive. Ford was ok but his ball carrying needs work.
Anton bressler and ben toolis were outstanding, felt they gave mom to the wrong 2nd row as felt bressler was immense. Back row put in a very good shift, rowdy grant was a real nuisance and McInally was everywhere. Still think McInally is best suited to back row. Was probably the best back row forward on the pitch tonight.
SHC ran the show from 9 and has to be Scotland's 9, the thing that impressed me most was his quick tap penalties which really put the dragons on the back foot.
Was also impressed by jack cuthbert, was a great weapon with the high ball chase and his reading of the game is excellent.
Who I wasn't impressed with was visser, he really looked not interested and didn't offer much work, he took his try well but apart from that he was poor.
As much as ben Atiga gets slated on here he seems a really valuable member of the team, whenever he was on the pitch during stoppages he really seemed to inspire the players and they were listening closely.
Sounded like the dragons brought a lot of support which made for a noisier atmosphere. The Edinburgh supporters despite Us winning so dominantly were pretty quiet.

A quiet word for His Eminence Big Al Kellock tonight. World beating as always, but this time as a pundit. Definite future there if he doesn't go into coaching.

The knowledge of Hawking, the fairness of Mandela and the authority of Gandhi.

Hi. Just got in. Beer and curry full. Will comment properly tomorrow, but well done Edinburgh, absolutely smashed us. So embarrassing. We were gash.

Biltong wrote:I see the Edinburgh pack is doing well with a few Saffers there, Nel, Strauss and Bresler

have to say the saffers make that pack. Bresler and toolis are a hell of a lock pairing . in fact id pick toolis ahead of johnnie gray right now; hes just power which scotland lack . ie a better version of jim hamilton

Majestic83 wrote:Just back from murrayfield. Very impressive performance from edinburgh, especially the pack. Scrum absolutely destroyed the dragons scrum nearly every time, so much so it looked like a scrum training session. Dickinson and Nel were v impressive. Ford was ok but his ball carrying needs work.
Anton bressler and ben toolis were outstanding, felt they gave mom to the wrong 2nd row as felt bressler was immense. Back row put in a very good shift, rowdy grant was a real nuisance and McInally was everywhere. Still think McInally is best suited to back row. Was probably the best back row forward on the pitch tonight.
SHC ran the show from 9 and has to be Scotland's 9, the thing that impressed me most was his quick tap penalties which really put the dragons on the back foot.
Was also impressed by jack cuthbert, was a great weapon with the high ball chase and his reading of the game is excellent.
Who I wasn't impressed with was visser, he really looked not interested and didn't offer much work, he took his try well but apart from that he was poor.
As much as ben Atiga gets slated on here he seems a really valuable member of the team, whenever he was on the pitch during stoppages he really seemed to inspire the players and they were listening closely.
Sounded like the dragons brought a lot of support which made for a noisier atmosphere. The Edinburgh supporters despite Us winning so dominantly were pretty quiet.

Things definitely panned as we all thought they would - if Edinburgh dominated up front we would win. What we didn't expect was so much domination!

I actually thought the atmosphere was quite good - the Dragons fans made people get a bit more animated, and because there were things to cheer about on the pitch people were making a bit more noise.

You do get a decent atmosphere at Edinburgh games if you get 8k+ - the 10500 at the London Irish game a few years ago was a fantastic atmosphere.

So I think Murrayfield can be our home - we just need much bigger crowds regularly!

Majestic83 wrote:
As much as ben Atiga gets slated on here he seems a really valuable member of the team, whenever he was on the pitch during stoppages he really seemed to inspire the players and they were listening closely.

He was just getting the Gregg's order sorted....

alive555 wrote:

Biltong wrote:I see the Edinburgh pack is doing well with a few Saffers there, Nel, Strauss and Bresler

have to say the saffers make that pack. Bresler and toolis are a hell of a lock pairing . in fact id pick toolis ahead of johnnie gray right now; hes just power which scotland lack . ie a better version of jim hamilton

The problem is Bresler seems to have that other Hamilton trait of getting yellow carded.

That was excellent from Edinburgh, what a set piece - congrats and good luck in the final. Dragons were very poor and tactically naive.

Please don't take this as sour grapes in any way but Nicol is pants. Surely there is a great ex Scottish player who can do a better job ? His comments are benal.

justified sinner wrote:Random comment, but bumped into Nathan Hines tonight. Just up to watch the game apparently?

When you say "bumped into him" I hope he picked you up afterwards (in a caring Good Samaritan way , not a MFL in a cocktail bar kind of way).

p.s. Well done the Luvvies. A totally deserved win.
McInally and Fraser Brown competing to be Scotland's hooker, the future looks good. With Denton and Watson fit for the final it could be a good day for you. I might nip over to the Stoop myself.

offload wrote:That was excellent from Edinburgh, what a set piece - congrats and good luck in the final.  Dragons were very poor and tactically naive.

Please don't take this as sour grapes in any way but Nicol is pants. Surely there is a great ex Scottish player who can do a better job ?  His comments are benal.

Not sours grapes, Nicol is useless. Totally bereft of insight.

Absolutely massive victory for Edinburgh! Great individual performances throughout, particularly from the forwards, SHC and Burleigh, but above all it was an excellent team performance. There is literally no logical and justifiable reason why Cotter can pick Laidlaw ahead of SHC now. The final is now the biggest match in Edinburgh's history and it could be absolutely vital in the development of our players. Really wish I could make it down for it. 

I have to say I was very unimpressed with Solomons at the start of the season and couldn't really see his plan develop, but the way in which he has turned around this team and brought through young SQ players has been exceptional. Toolis, SHC and Sutherland were really just fringe players or unknowns at the start of the season, but they're now very much the future of this team and Scottish rugby. Interestingly, Solomons said last night that he could see a few more young SQ players coming through next season, which will be exciting to see. 

Final word goes to the Dragons fans on here and those who travelled up and supported their team. Great effort all round 

IanBru wrote:A quiet word for His Eminence Big Al Kellock tonight. World beating as always, but this time as a pundit. Definite future there if he doesn't go into coaching.

The knowledge of Hawking, the fairness of Mandela and the authority of Gandhi.

But is he better than Andy Nicol?

FES, the shadow cast by a cardboard cut-out of Stuart Barnes on a pleasant April evening would be better than Andy Nicol.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tell you what, could be some tough selection decisions for the final - Denton, Du Preez, Coman, Grant and Watson all likely to be fit. One will miss out!

I just hope Solomons doesn't pick 2 openside to start. Also you forget McInally who had a cracking game yesterday!

To summarise several points:-
Offload - no offence take. Nicol is the end of a bell. When he was screaming for a Dragons' player (I think it was one of the centres) to get a yellow card WITH a penalty try for an incident between the 22 and the 10 yard line was embarrassing
SHC - played very well but, at the risk of being pedantic, two missed touches from penalties which cost us a try for the Dragons at the start of the second half. He needs to stay on the top of his game 100% at all times.
Coman - RDW et al - apologies accepted for the slagging I took when I said he had to play possibly ahead of Du Preez
Discipline - needs work. I was getting fraught about the ref but when you watch it on tv, most of the penalties we conceded were correctly give, mainly for not coming into a ruck through the gate.
Dragons - outstanding back-row and fans (was that really Derek Bevan that the TV cameras found in the crowd?). You were just under-powered in the tight 5
Scotland SH - totally agree that SHC and Piecrust are streets ahead of Laidlaw. However, Cotter is on record as saying that Laidlaw provides leadership that no-one else does (let'shelp Johnny Gray pushes on then!). With Edinburgh, SHC has the anti-christ Coman to take care of leadership.
Finalists - let'sbhope it is Glaws. Exeter's scrum against the Saints last week was awesome and I would worry that tonight's tables would be reversed

VinceWLB wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Tell you what, could be some tough selection decisions for the final - Denton, Du Preez, Coman, Grant and Watson all likely to be fit. One will miss out!

I just hope Solomons doesn't pick 2 openside to start. Also you forget McInally who had a cracking game yesterday!

Very, very tough to choose loose forward set - particularly given that neither Denton or Du Preez will have much match fitness.

I would be tempted to go:
6. Du Preez
7. Watson
8. Denton

20. Coman

The problem is that as captain Coman will effectively be blocking out a starting slot.
And despite his good shift last night, not justifiably.

The Cherries or the Chiefs will play specialists in their positions and we will need to do the same.

Morning men. Feeling the worse for wear this morning after an old fashioned night out in Newport

Where to start? Huge well done to Edinburgh. That was a very good performance. You seemed to have a level of intensity above and beyond anything we could muster. You seemed to get the rub of the green a lot too - not in terms of referee decisions, but in terms of the bounce of the ball, kicks to the corner, etc. Everything seemed to come off for you! It was well executed stuff. Very impressed by your no. 9. Some player and some performance.

For the Dragons: We never seemed to get into gear. As always in these situations you have to give some praise to the other team for not allowing us to get into gear, but still we were not at the races. It would be easier to take if we played to our best but still came up short. But in reality we just didn't play well at all. That was our heaviest defeat of the season in all competitions by some margin, so I know we can do better (the equivalent league fixture in October was 'only' 24-10). The scrum was back to its previous worst. We lacked ideas, creativity and cutting edge. Lots and lots to work on.

Anyway, life sucks Well done Edinburgh! I'll be cheering you on in the final. Hoping you win.

P.S. Special mention to our captain Rynard Landman who apparently travelled up on the supporters bus with the fans after a bit of Twitter pressure!

Griff wrote:Morning men.  Feeling the worse for wear this morning after an old fashioned night out in Newport

Where to start?  Huge well done to Edinburgh.  That was a very good performance.  You seemed to have a level of intensity above and beyond anything we could muster.  You seemed to get the rub of the green a lot too - not in terms of referee decisions, but in terms of the bounce of the ball, kicks to the corner, etc.  Everything seemed to come off for you!  It was well executed stuff.  Very impressed by your no. 9.  Some player and some performance.

Cheers, Griff (and hope you feel ready for solid food soon. I was like that last Sunday and had the old "nil by mouth" sign above me courtesy of far too much Guinness the day before)
You actually make a very good point. For once, Edinburgh did get the break of the ball with kicks running into touch 3 yards out, rather than going out in-goal. Given that your tight 5 had a bad day at the office, I am not sure it made a massive difference to the end result but it is a lot easier to attach the opposition's line out when they are 5 yards from their own line with a hooker who, again, didn't seem to be on the best of form

On who should play for the final, I'd play the same team but with Burleigh at 12 and Tonks at 10.

IYA - Coman was very good, but long term I think Du Preez is the better option.

But saying that I'd leave Du Preez out of the final. All the other players are battle hardened and good to go, he's just back from a horrific injury.

Plus, it really wouldn't sit well if Grant missed out given how much he has put his body on the line for Edinburgh, especially this season.

I'd have

6 Coman
7 Watson
8 Denton

Sub - Grant

I think every player played a valuable part in the Edinburgh display, even the ones who generally receive criticism on the forums. Coman played very well last night so I wouldn't have any problem with him playing in the final if Denton isn't fully fit. I would say that Burleigh possibly played as well as any stand-off has for Edinburgh this season, I would keep him at 10 even if Tonks has recovered.
The Edinburgh scrum was dominant, even if the Newport coach was calling Edinburgh cheats, can't wait for Nel to play for Scotland now.
And yes, Andy Nicol is a dreadful commentator, any of the Edinburgh or Glasgow squad players who take their turn to provide punditry on BBC Alba are better. While I'm on the subject, John Beattie should also be shown the door, he generally talks rubbish as well.

Burleigh was excellent at 10, but if we brought Tonks back in it means we could drop Strauss - all I saw him do yesterday was give away penalties!

Mike Blair is a much better pundit and has a collection of scarves no sillier than Austin 'Beau Brummel' Healey.

Well done Edinburgh, a comprehensive win. I hope you take that form to the final. As for us, well we spoke about the scrum before the game and it happened. I didn't know Edinburgh's scrum was that strong either. Kingsley and TRT have at least been honest about the performance, but I wonder what Lyn thinks seeing as he made the calls. Surely he's going to hold himself accountable.

Nematode wrote:

On who should play for the final, I'd play the same team but with Burleigh at 12 and Tonks at 10.

Stuart McKinley? Rudy Grant?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Burleigh was excellent at 10, but if we brought Tonks back in it means we could drop Strauss - all I saw him do yesterday was give away penalties!

Sure but perhaps Tonks should play 12 in that case, Burleigh's kicking game was a step up from anything we've seen from any other Edinburgh 10 so far this season I would say. Obviously Ford will play if fit but I'd be tempted to pick McInally at hooker instead.

The Saint wrote:Well done Edinburgh, a comprehensive win. I hope you take that form to the final. As for us, well we spoke about the scrum before the game and it happened. I didn't know Edinburgh's scrum was that strong either. Kingsley and TRT have at least been honest about the performance, but I wonder what Lyn thinks seeing as he made the calls. Surely he's going to hold himself accountable.

Scrum was one of the things we were confident about pre-game. We've done that to a lot of teams this year!

Congrats Edinburgh. Still had a good night up there, despite the result. Nice to see we helped make Murrayfield pretty atmospheric. I enjoyed it in the ground, though it was strange trying to get people to still shout for the Dragons when we were forty points down. Just felt I couldn't give up on them.

Hope you go well in the final. It has probably done my wallet a huge favour that I don't have to go to The Stoop now.

I didn't see the game, but if I was a Dragons supporter I'd be pretty content with this season and looking ahead to next.

Given not too long ago there was that 60-3 game vs Glasgow, to rebound and beat Leinster and become a tough team to beat is an impressive accomplishment.

Also the Dragon back line has some really encouraging youngsters like Amos, Morgan and Dixon really coming through and also Prydie's a very reliable kicker.

Thinking to the final, Exeter are the better team but they are away to wasps 5 days before the final whereas Edinburgh will have 7 days preparation.

Can only help if they beat Gloucester!

Well just watched the game as I was working last night and it was a fantastic game from Edinburgh, the most complete performance I have seen from them for a long time (possibly ever!), it was Glasgowesque in the way they destroyed the opposition all over the park.

In terms of the team for the final, well Burleigh certainly brings something to the 10 shirt that Tonks just can't, game management! I did not see it before but maybe he is the answer for them at FH, that was what he was signed for at the end of the day. I would play him there for the final and put Tonks back to 15, still his best position!

It was good to see Du Preez back and getting a cameo, but don't get to excited, he has had 10 minutes of rugby in 6 months, coming back from a horror injury. It is hard to see how he will be fit enough to start a final. I am sure he will get a few more minutes next week as well, but bench is best he can hope for, it is not as if Conman is not playing well and he does captain the side very well.

If Tonks, Watson and Denton get fit again in time and that must be in doubt as it is only 2 weeks away, then someone who really deserves a place is going to miss out, particularly in the back row. I think I would go with Denton, Watson and Conman with Du Preez on the bench, excepting that will be really really hard on Roddy Grant.

Maybe the injury and fitness situation will decide things for them. If I was the coach I might be glad if that was the case, as it really will be a judgement of Soloman!

Anyway well done again Edinburgh, it really was a great win, which I very much enjoyed!

If anyone finds a YouTube link to the full game could you post a link on here? Been hunting around and nothing yet :/

Cheers

Nematode wrote:If anyone finds a YouTube link to the full game could you post a link on here? Been hunting around and nothing yet :/

Cheers

Same! I wouldn't hold out much hope - the only one they had of the London Irish game was in French!

Edinburgh have tweeted highlights though.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

The Saint wrote:Well done Edinburgh, a comprehensive win. I hope you take that form to the final. As for us, well we spoke about the scrum before the game and it happened. I didn't know Edinburgh's scrum was that strong either. Kingsley and TRT have at least been honest about the performance, but I wonder what Lyn thinks seeing as he made the calls. Surely he's going to hold himself accountable.

Scrum was one of the things we were confident about pre-game. We've done that to a lot of teams this year!

Fair play. You'll need a strong scrum if you end up playing Exeter in the final. I hope you lot go and win, Scottish rugby needs it! Good luck.

Thanks Saint!

I'm sure you'll be gunning for revenge in a few weeks!