Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

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Edinburgh Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons
Friday 17 April 2015
KO 19:45
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: JP Doyle
AR1: Luke Pearce
AR2: Marius Mitrea

*****
Teams:

Edinburgh Rugby
15. Jack Cuthbert
14. Dougie Fife
13. Sam Beard
12. Andries Strauss
11. Tim Visser
10. Phil Burleigh
09. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. WP Nel
04. Anton Bresler
05. Ben Toolis
06. Stuart McInally
07. Roddy Grant
08. Mike Coman (c)

16. Neil Cochrane
17. Rory Sutherland
18. John Andress
19. Fraser McKenzie
20. Cornell Du Preez
21. Nathan Fowles
22. Tom Heathcote
23. Tom Brown

Newport Gwent Dragons
15 Jason Tovey
14 Tom Prydie
13 Tyler Morgan
12 Jack Dixon
11 Hallam Amos
10 Dorian Jones
09 Jonathan Evans

01 Brok Harris
02 T. Rhys Thomas (c)
03 Dan Way
04 James Thomas
05 Cory Hill
06 Nick Crosswell
07 Nic Cudd
08 Taulupe Faletau.

16 Rhys Buckley
17 Phil Price
18 Lloyd Fairbrother
19 Matthew Screech
20 James Benjamin
21 Luc Jones
22 Ashton Hewitt
23 Geraint Rhys Jones

*****
Couldn't wait any longer to start this thread.

Absolutely bouncing for Friday. First semi final for 8 years and hoping we can go one better. Dragons have just announced a third coach of supporters booked for the trip which, given the short notice, is a great effort.

We are coming in off a bonus point win against pro12 champions Leinster (while being 22-8 down at one point), have won four on the bounce and have a great team spirit of young Welshmen from around the region with a sprinkling of gnarly pros.

Bouncing

BigGee wrote:Why should long suffering fans get behind not their team when they eventually give them something to get excited about. God knows we Scottish fans do it often enough when Scotland give us a few glimpses of hope, like they did this autumn!

When Edinburgh beat London Irish in the quarter, I thought with a home semi that they were as good as in the final. Watching the guts and class that Dragons showed against Leinster, I am not so sure now.

Its a cup semi final at the end of the day, winner takes all and form is probably going to have nothing to do with it. Here are a couple of teams who have had a pretty dismal few years, who are suddenly finding their way at long last. Who do we think wants it, or needs it more.

All to play for and anyone's game. Looking forward to it, should be a great game!

Yes exactly. As per it seems the Welsh aren't allowed to do it.

I clearly said elsewhere at the time but that was a great effort from Edinburgh, heard they were pounding your line in the dying minutes but your defence held firm. I've already stated what we need to do to be in the game on Friday, and it's a stark contrast from what we last served up in Murrayfield.

We need to start way better than we did against the Blues or Leinster, as for supporting my Country/Region/Team I don't care what others think. If I feel we are in with a shout I will say it shout it etc if I think we are dire then I will also say it.

We are all entitled to our own views and if other don't like it then tough really.

Just to second Bedford's earlier comment: while to some playing for 7th place may seem a little trivial or second rate, to those teams traditionally (or uncharacteristically) in the bottom half it does give something to aim for. Maybe that's just the way the points have fallen this season. But for the Dragons in previous years being in the positon that we are now may have meant season over, let's start planning for next year. Not now though. And that's great for the fans and the league. So that's a positive to come out of the Euro comp restructure for me.

Griff wrote:

TJ wrote:Edinburgh should play a second team.  We have more important games than this meani9ngless micky mouse contest.  Probably already ruined our season tho in not getting into the euro cup.  Its a complete waste of time and as I feared these extra games have cost us a chance of getting into the main euro cup.

Here you go again. You are such a hypocrite TJ. You criticise some Welsh posters for calling the Pro12 Mickey Mouse and a waste of time then do exactly the same about this cup. You need to find some consistency TJ! You're tarnishing the European rugby brand. Tsk!

Do everyone a favour and please don't post your negative shoite on this thread. This is for those of us looking forward to the game and hoping to reach the final.

Not a hypocrite at all. I have been completely consistent. diverting our attention in this mickey mouse cup has almost certainly cost us a chance of a place in europe. It should have been treated as the LV cup is treated - as a run out for fringe players.

TJ,

Did you feel the same about the old Amlin or is it just the new format that you think has affected your chances of a place in Europe?

The reason I ask is that since the league took on its current format of one single league for the 03/04 season you have only 3 times finished any higher than 8th in the league (07/08 4th, 08/09 2nd and 09/10 6th).

So I just wonder why you feel you would have made Europe or had better chance if not in this competition.

I felt the same about the amlin. Same as if I supported a welsh team i would feel the same about the LV cup. Your league and the euro cup matter. second tier comps do not. Edinburgh do not have a big enough squad to compete on two fronts. We have lost two winnable games in the league and we have to too many games in too short a time and as a result we probably will not be in the euro cup next year which will cost us a lot.

Its all ifs buts and maybes but i do believe that without the distraction of the mickey mouse cup we might well have won a couple more games which would have meant a european place. If the challenge cup had a euro place for the winner it would be worth it but as is - its a pointless distraction from the real business. I want to be at the top table.

I feared this would happen with the new format.

Griff wrote:Just to second Bedford's earlier comment: while to some playing for 7th place may seem a little trivial or second rate, to those teams traditionally (or uncharacteristically) in the bottom half it does give something to aim for. Maybe that's just the way the points have fallen this season. But for the Dragons in previous years being in the positon that we are now may have meant season over, let's start planning for next year. Not now though. And that's great for the fans and the league. So that's a positive to come out of the Euro comp restructure for me.

You know - I decried this idea with the restructure but it has made for a good fight for the teams in the middle in actual fact. a slight change of view. i still think 8 places would have been right tho - and the same effect would have been there

But that's the thing though you (nor us Dragons) have never been at the top of the table (2nd for you once) we all have ambitions but we have to be realistic as well.

In the old set up I have always said that I thought the HC was to high a level for us and the Amlin was a more realistic competition and one that if coaches over the years had concentrated on we might have had a good chance of winning.

This season we have put a decent effort in and it still as yet may prove fruitful, because to me winning something is better than winning nothing.

TJ wrote:I felt the same about the amlin.  Same as if I supported a welsh team i would feel the same about the LV cup.  Your league and the euro cup matter.  second tier comps do not.  Edinburgh do not have a big enough squad to compete on two fronts.  We have lost two winnable games in the league and we have to too many games in too short a time and as a result we probably will not be in the euro cup next year which will cost us a lot.

Its all ifs buts and maybes but i do believe that without the distraction of the mickey mouse cup we might well have won a couple more games which would have meant a european place.  If the challenge cup had a euro place for the winner it would be worth it but as is - its a pointless distraction from the real business.  I want to be at the top table.

I feared this would happen with the new format.  

I think Edinburgh should asked, politely, to step aside from European rugby then. Let someone in who wants to be there. Maybe divert the funding to a Georgian team, perhaps.

Bedford - I'd rather struggle at the top table than win something meaningless. Yo want to test yourself against the best

If we all thought the same then the world would be dull. being best of the resat is nothing to me

TJ,

I agree with that is principle but you also have to have realistic goals. I would love to see the Dragons fighting for top 4 year in year out but I know it's not going to happen on a regular basis not in the near future at least so again to me winning something is better than winning nothing and just finishing mid table - though format change had added something now.

Jeezo this thread is seriously in need of a sense of humour!

Both teams have a right to feel that they can win this and both sets of fans have the right to dream they can - this is a one off game and anything could happen.  Dragons are on the better form but Edinburgh are at home and have a decent record against the Dragons of late.

The Dragons only played 5 days ago but Edinburgh have a lot of injuries to key personnel.

So really there is nothing in it.

Also worth noting that the written word is very difficult to judge tone, sarcasm etc.  This forum would be a much happier place if people didn't immediately assume the worst in anything that is said (unless it is obvious! ).

Dragons, prepare to be humiliated...

I'm loving the Stockbridge trash talk

I can't see Dragons getting within 40 points. Mentally weak.

While some posters might not care about this tournament, I really hope we win it.

Winning any competition is a good thing in my view, and this is especially the case for Edinburgh. We want to encourage more people to come along to the games, getting to a semi final or even winning the tournament is going to get headlines. If people see Edinburgh have won a competition in theory it should get them thinking we’re actually a successful team.

I fear though that Dragons have the momentum going into this match, and morale has to be low after the performance against Munster.

Hoping for a good match and the Dragons fans coming up enjoy themselves, with the exception of 80mins on Friday evening

I also care about this tournament. Too many people fail to enjoy the now, and constantly focus on the next thing, and where the team might be in 5 years time. It is much like coaches who chalk of years of defeats by claiming that it's all about the World Cup.

This tournament is here to be won, and only Glaws and Exeter stand in our way.

I blame the Weegies! Edinburgh fans want to be in the top 4 and the Warriors are our target. They set our expectations.

As much as I am buzzing about this game and obviously hope we win, I wouldnt be too hopeful of beating either Exeter or Gloucester

GavinDragon wrote:As much as I am buzzing about this game and obviously hope we win, I wouldnt be too hopeful of beating either Exeter or Gloucester

GD,

I would prefer Gloucester to Exeter, seen bits of their game against Saints last week and they looked seriously good, least after stuffing Edinburgh we will have some confidence for the final.

The Saint wrote:Isn't it funny that when a Welsh person dares to believe in their team they're dismissed as arrogant, or talking themselves up. I think we can win, if that makes me arrogant I really couldn't give a monkeys. I've also seen this competition dismissed as a mickey mouse competition, and that Dragons should be disbanded...both on this thread and what do you know, both by Scottish posters. Why didn't you whine about those posts? I don't get it... One rule for you and different for Wales fans?

You might want to replace the batteries in your joke detector.

GLove39 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Isn't it funny that when a Welsh person dares to believe in their team they're dismissed as arrogant, or talking themselves up. I think we can win, if that makes me arrogant I really couldn't give a monkeys. I've also seen this competition dismissed as a mickey mouse competition, and that Dragons should be disbanded...both on this thread and what do you know, both by Scottish posters. Why didn't you whine about those posts? I don't get it... One rule for you and different for Wales fans?

You might want to replace the batteries in your joke detector.

You might want to read the entire post/entire thread. It's the selective reading from you folk which has caused the bickering and accusations against the WELSH on here.

After you've done that treat yourself to a haggis and a bottle of famous grouse, because Friday night you'll need some home comforts just to get you through the evening .

Saint, have you mistaken this thread for the one about the Pro12 'facts'?

The best part about this thread is the realisation that neither sets of fans are very good at sledging or being arrogant about their team's prospects.

We need some Leinster or Ulster fans on here to show us how it's done.
( )

Weegie Wizard wrote:Saint, have you mistaken this thread for the one about the Pro12 'facts'?

See posts on this thread by injuredyetagain and serial whiner TJ.

George Carlin wrote:The best part about this thread is the realisation that neither sets of fans are very good at sledging or being arrogant about their team's prospects.

We need some Leinster or Ulster fans on here to show us how it's done.
( )

I thought us Welsh were champions of the Arrogant 6 Nations fans Award, for the last 4 years running. Guess who also finished 2nd in that for the last 4 years running?

The Saint wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:Saint, have you mistaken this thread for the one about the Pro12 'facts'?

See posts on this thread by injuredyetagain and serial whiner TJ.

Saint, I've just scrolled through and the only post from Injuredyetagain is around the number of tickets sold and hoping there are a lot of walk ups on the day. I'm not really sure what you've got against that, unless I've missed another post on this thread from them?

TJ doesn't like the competition, I don't agree with him/her, but it's their opinion, again not sure what this has to do with being against the Welsh. It does seem like you are looking to be offended, if that's the case I would strongly advise giving the internet a miss, it's not for you.

So aynway....Dragons fans - what's your likely team going to be and where can you see your strengths and weaknesses? I've posted the likely Edinburgh team earlier, but will summarise the rest here:

Strengths

- Front 5

We received an absolute spanking up front against Munster last weekend, but I'm hoping it is a one off because our front 5 has been fairly dominant since around November when we started to get our act together. We regularly get the upper hand in the scrums (indeed that was one of the few things that went well against Munster) and our lineout has been strong, apart from last weekend again!

Our front row of Dickinson/Ford/Nel have dominated a lot of teams this year, and in Bresler and Toolis we have a good mix of enforcer and athletic lineout operator


- Goal kicking

Assume Hidalgo-Clyne is fit (please please please please please please) this could be an advantage. I'd like to see his stats, but he must be one of the most accurate kickers in the league. Better still, he doesn't have the limited range that Laidlaw has, and regularly bangs them over from past the 10m line.

If the Dragons give away penalties in their half then he should punish them.


- Defence

Again it fell to pieces against Munster, but our defence has generally been good of late. We will need to be given Dragons' attacking threat


Weaknesses

- Fatigue

Due to a lack of squad depth Solomons tends to flog his players, with a lot of the forwards especially having played a lot of rugby this season both for Scotland and Edinburgh. Hopefully this won't be an issue given the Dragons don't have a big squad either, and will have only played 5 days previously

- Back row

Are two outstanding backrowers - Denton and Du Preez - are both injured and Mike Coman is still a doubt after a head knock. If he isn't fit then we are seriously lacking grunt in the back row. Hamish Watson must be in the running for the Pro 12 dream team, but he needs a good balanced backrow to back him up. We need Coman back and firing on all cylinders


- Creativity

There is none. Solomons' tactics are fairly straight forward - dominate up front and grind a team into submission. The problem being (as shown against Munster), if this doesn't work, we don't have a plan B. Strauss at 12 is one of the main problems, but if we can get Hidalgo-Clyne (also in the running for Pro 12 dream team I would say) and Tonks back at halfback then that should be improved.


- Lack of depth

We don't have much impact off the bench, particularly in the backs. Sutherland, McInally and McKenzie will do a good job when they come on but our backrow sub (Leonardi probably) will weaken the team, and our backs subs are also not great. I wouldn't like to see us chasing the game with 20 minutes to go...

RDW, if it comes down to kicks at goal then it's advantage Edinburgh.

P.S. Edinburgh are rubbish, etc.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:RDW, if it comes down to kicks at goal then it's advantage Edinburgh.

P.S. Edinburgh are rubbish, etc.

Prydies been in pretty reliable form though hasn't he, Tovey is hit n miss.

RDW,

The short turn around could harm us given that we have had 2 big defensive efforts in last two weeks as well. I think we have a slight edge in the backs and Amos has been on fire, should be a good battle in the backrow. I just hope Faletau starts where he finished last week because for the last 20 odd minutes it was like a flick switched and he just upped it to another level and Cudd has been in great form all season.

I said earlier in the thread that one area I think we have the edge in this one off game is Lyn Jones, I am sure he will have something special up his sleeve.

Home advantage will be the biggie for me but if we can get on the front foot early on and not leave it late like we have done last 2 weeks then who knows.

EWT Spoons wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:Saint, have you mistaken this thread for the one about the Pro12 'facts'?

See posts on this thread by injuredyetagain and serial whiner TJ.

Saint, I've just scrolled through and the only post from Injuredyetagain is around the number of tickets sold and hoping there are a lot of  walk ups on the day.  I'm not really sure what you've got against that, unless I've missed another post on this thread from them?

TJ doesn't like the competition, I don't agree with him/her, but it's their opinion, again not sure what this has to do with being against the Welsh.  It does seem like you are looking to be offended, if that's the case I would strongly advise giving the internet a miss, it's not for you.

Hells bells. Call my lawyer (and make sure they are better than some of the cowboys on these boards.
Saint, please show me where you think I have over stepped the mark on any thread, not just this one.

Injured, I think Saint mistook your for Ineffable who had a pop on page 1, realised he'd read something the wrong way, and then beat a hasty retreat! I think you're partially to blame though for having a username starting with the same letter

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:RDW, if it comes down to kicks at goal then it's advantage Edinburgh.

P.S. Edinburgh are rubbish, etc.

Prydies been in pretty reliable form though hasn't he, Tovey is hit n miss.

Prydie missed two relative sitters against the Blues that almost cost us. I'm guessing that's why Tovey was given the nod for the Leinster game.

Griff wrote:Injured, I think Saint mistook your for Ineffable who had a pop on page 1, realised he'd read something the wrong way, and then beat a hasty retreat! I think you're partially to blame though for having a username starting with the same letter

The same 2 letters, Griff. Fully understandable in the circumstances therefore

Anyway, back in the real world, I am quite worried about this game. A week ago, I woudl have favoured us but the game against the Munsters was worrying plus the Dragons are starting to look pretty useful.
Given the fragility of both teams earlier in the season, I think that if one team gets two scores ahead, it will win as I don't think either team has the self-belief to come back from that sort of deficit.
At the risk of annoying Saint again by revisiting an emotive topic, anyone know how ticket sales are going? 2,500 were sold in the first 36 hours which beat even the Tolouse QF but, for that, we had weeks in which to buy our tickets

InjuredYetAgain wrote:
At the risk of annoying Saint again by revisiting an emotive topic, anyone know how ticket sales are going? 2,500 were sold in the first 36 hours which beat even the Tolouse QF but, for that, we had weeks in which to buy our tickets

The media are reporting over 10k, but I don't know if that has any basis or is just a pure guess!

10k?! Wow, if that is right, I am genuinely and pleasantly surprised. I would have thought 8k would be acceptable and understandable given our average crowd plus the fact it is on a Friday night.
I had a quick look at the SRU site and they have the diagram of the stadium showing what seats have been taken/what are free, and to be honest, there doesn't look anything like 10k blocked out. Where did you see that number, RDW?

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Anyway, back in the real world, I am quite worried about this game. A week ago, I woudl have favoured us but the game against the Munsters was worrying plus the Dragons are starting to look pretty useful.
Given the fragility of both teams earlier in the season, I think that if one team gets two scores ahead, it will win as I don't think either team has the self-belief to come back from that sort of deficit.
At the risk of annoying Saint again by revisiting an emotive topic, anyone know how ticket sales are going? 2,500 were sold in the first 36 hours which beat even the Tolouse QF but, for that, we had weeks in which to buy our tickets

IYA,

Given that we have had to come from behind against the Blues and Leinster in our last 2 games I would say that is one area where we wouldn't lack the self belief. However given the fact that we have had to do it in our last two games I wonder what affect that will have physically more than mentally.

EWT Spoons wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:Saint, have you mistaken this thread for the one about the Pro12 'facts'?

See posts on this thread by injuredyetagain and serial whiner TJ.

Saint, I've just scrolled through and the only post from Injuredyetagain is around the number of tickets sold and hoping there are a lot of walk ups on the day. I'm not really sure what you've got against that, unless I've missed another post on this thread from them?

TJ doesn't like the competition, I don't agree with him/her, but it's their opinion, again not sure what this has to do with being against the Welsh. It does seem like you are looking to be offended, if that's the case I would strongly advise giving the internet a miss, it's not for you.

Thanks but dont feed the troll. His continual accusations of anti welsh feeling are irritating but best ignored. I have him blocked now because I got fed up of his tedious carping on and hatred of the pro 2

InjuredYetAgain wrote:10k?! Wow, if that is right, I am genuinely and pleasantly surprised. I would have thought 8k would be acceptable and understandable given our average crowd plus the fact it is on a Friday night.
I had a quick look at the SRU site and they have the diagram of the stadium showing what seats have been taken/what are free, and to be honest, there doesn't look anything like 10k blocked out. Where did you see that number, RDW?

On the radio earlier tuday.

I agree that 10k is a bit adventurous!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Anyway, back in the real world, I am quite worried about this game. A week ago, I woudl have favoured us but the game against the Munsters was worrying plus the Dragons are starting to look pretty useful.
Given the fragility of both teams earlier in the season, I think that if one team gets two scores ahead, it will win as I don't think either team has the self-belief to come back from that sort of deficit.
At the risk of annoying Saint again by revisiting an emotive topic, anyone know how ticket sales are going? 2,500 were sold in the first 36 hours which beat even the Tolouse QF but, for that, we had weeks in which to buy our tickets

IYA,

Given that we have had to come from behind against the Blues and Leinster in our last 2 games I would say that is one area where we wouldn't lack the self belief.  However given the fact that we have had to do it in our last two games I wonder what affect that will have physically more than mentally.

Ok, apart from those two in your last 2 games (what have this Leinster of whom you speak ever won anyway?), neither team have ......... oh bugger, we are Donald Ducked if we fall behind and no safer if we take the lead.

And Saint - if my posts annoy you so much I suggest you block me instead of the stupid childish accusations of anti welsh bias which are unfounded, irritating and make uyou look even more stupid.

You were challenged on this ages ago and were unable to come up with a single example of anti welsh bias. So do me a favour - block me or go away and micturate

InjuredYetAgain wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Anyway, back in the real world, I am quite worried about this game. A week ago, I woudl have favoured us but the game against the Munsters was worrying plus the Dragons are starting to look pretty useful.
Given the fragility of both teams earlier in the season, I think that if one team gets two scores ahead, it will win as I don't think either team has the self-belief to come back from that sort of deficit.
At the risk of annoying Saint again by revisiting an emotive topic, anyone know how ticket sales are going? 2,500 were sold in the first 36 hours which beat even the Tolouse QF but, for that, we had weeks in which to buy our tickets

IYA,

Given that we have had to come from behind against the Blues and Leinster in our last 2 games I would say that is one area where we wouldn't lack the self belief.  However given the fact that we have had to do it in our last two games I wonder what affect that will have physically more than mentally.

Ok, apart from those two in your last 2 games (what have this Leinster of whom you speak ever won anyway?), neither team have ......... oh bugger, we are Donald Ducked if we fall behind and no safer if we take the lead.

Its ok I think the boys surprised even the mosr ardent of fans with the way we have come back, especially against Leinster last week but added to that was the defensive effort to then keep them out which is why I fear a bit it might have taken to much out of us.

Use of the bench from our point of view will be crucial.

We just use our bench as somewhere to put all the guys who are too rubbish even to get a game for us!
I have to say that I think the pride and benefits of two come-from-behind wins (especially against Leinster) will outweigh fatigue. Unless the 10k figure for the crowd is correct, I don't see home advantage counting for too much.
Despite making a total roaster of myself a few minutes ago, I still think that a 2 score lead will be enough for either team to hold on to.

From a fans point of view (well Dragons at least) such a shame that this is the Friday night game.

George Carlin wrote:The best part about this thread is the realisation that neither sets of fans are very good at sledging or being arrogant about their team's prospects.

We need some Leinster or Ulster fans on here to show us how it's done.
( )

Leinster fans are in hiding after their double drubbing against the all conquering Gwent Dragons.

Tovey is our best kicker I think. Yeah he missed a sitter last week, but I think he's pretty solid. It was pretty windy at Dave, so I think he overthought the sitter a bit too much.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:RDW, if it comes down to kicks at goal then it's advantage Edinburgh.

P.S. Edinburgh are rubbish, etc.

Prydies been in pretty reliable form though hasn't he, Tovey is hit n miss.

Prydie missed two relative sitters against the Blues that almost cost us. I'm guessing that's why Tovey was given the nod for the Leinster game.

Yes and he cost us the Zebre game with missed kicks too (from memory)

TJ wrote:And Saint - if my posts annoy you so much I suggest you  block me instead of the stupid childish accusations of anti welsh bias which are unfounded, irritating and make uyou look even more stupid.

You were challenged on this ages ago and were unable to come up with a single example of anti welsh bias.  So do me a favour - block me or go away and micturate

TJ, I honestly think you talk more about anti-Welsh bias than any Welsh poster! You bring it up in nearly every post! Even on here I think you're the only one. C'mon dude!

bedfordwelsh wrote:From a fans point of view (well Dragons at least) such a shame that this is the Friday night game.

Murrayfield is being used on the Saturday for the Scottish club rugby finals day, and I suspect the broadcaster didn't want it on the same day as the Champions cup semis