Some overseas players to get a look in with Wallabies

First topic message reminder :

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/aru-to-select-overseas-based-players/

They have to have 60 caps, 7 years contracted to the ARU, and will need to have agreed to be back in Super Rugby.

lostinwales wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:With Quade Cooper joining Munster in the summer. Do you think he will still be in the Australia world cup squad?

Munster? Toulon surely

My mistake. i corrected it though.

Cooper doesn't have 60 caps, not sure on this but he might have had just under 7 years contracted to the ARU. So you'd think not. Those Aussies have some good depth in the backs, they should be alright.

FecklessRogue wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/aru-to-select-overseas-based-players/

They have to have 60 caps, 7 years contracted to the ARU, and will need to have agreed to be back in Super Rugby.

Jaysus, they might as well have added "Their name must be Matt Giteau".

Well since Deans forced him out it is right he should be able to return as i rate him as one of the classiest backs Aussie ever produced. Though being Welsh i wish they had bloody waited until after RWC.

Professional Rugby is a fact of life and is 20yrs old,money talks louder than caps.
Originally in the first wave roughly post 2003 it was a case of players going for
a pension or those who had only few caps.[Toulon started a trend in French Rugby then]
Post 2008 SA have been picking NH or Japan based players for there teams without much
success in SH comps.
NZ for example lost a team post 2003,a whole squad post 2007,but were little effected
post 2011.Until now NZ and Aus haven`t been effected and it only really effects 3 players.
SH comps are little effected by the process except losing the odd player[relatively speaking]
Super Rugby is more or less proscribed with one Aus exception.
There was a trend post 2011 when fringe players or rebels came north for cash and possibly
international Rugby.There has also been the start of cynical signing 2/3 year contracts then
coming home for a RWC place perhaps.
This year players young enough with the odd cap are adopting this attitude no doubt counting
on the 2019 RWC being back home to qualify.
One can understand wanting your best players for a RWC and in the NH case it makes sense
as the play top 14 sides on a regular basis.
BUT in the case of a SH side relying on form of 2/3 years old a not training with your team
is decidedly iffy.
To say a Barbarians side like Toulon is worlds best when they don`t play SH sides is a
huge statement.
Frankly Top 14 except for fans of the club is a sick joke,only 40% qualified for the French
National side.Only 3 of Top 2 divisions making a profit last season teams almost forced
into bankruptcy to compete in buying titles soccer style.
That the teams are often good and quality of matches excellent doesn't change the facts.

I think it is easy to understand why players would leave home to have a chance to earn more money, despite potentially giving up the opportunity to represent their country.  Rugby players are not paid remotely at football levels and virtually all have to enter the workforce when their careers are over.  Given the tenuous nature of playing professional sport, with short careers and injuries just around the corner, I can get it.  It's a shame, but a reality of the game today.  I think it would take a significant change to how the game is operated and financed to stem the tide to whatever degree.  

I think having some SH players in the NH club/team/franchise competitions adds to the game.  But it does seem the numbers are not right at the moment.  The occasional NH player who goes down south to play probably adds to Super Rugby as well.

The problem is not that players want to earn as much as they get offered.  The problem is that yet again Europe will be the sponge for soaking up most 'best' players, and it's fair to say reap the rewards then both financially and in terms of important bragging rights.  Best this in the world, Best that in the world, Best club in the world, Best competition in the world, etc etc.

Europe always sees where quality is and Europe always then gets around to finally buying it up, claiming it all as their own, and gloating about having the best.  I'm sure that is sickening both for SH competition organisers and those fans where these 'best' players were actually produced.

In this new age of Gobal instant communication, and Global reach of TV Networks, you'd wonder what real requirement there is by Networks to suck all that is Best into Europe itself rather than just better market and support sports competition around the world, and simply broadcast them more honestly into heartland Europe.

I don't really see why Best SH players have to go to Europe to get best wages if this is a truly Global world of Instant Communication and one large, linked Market.

Maybe the ideal for SH now is actually to link up with Japan to create a new League between sides from AUS, NZ and Japan and allow players then to travel between those nations as Japanese investors are encouraged to come on board and support AUS and NZ sides and offer similar wage rates as Top14 sides can.  Big mileages of course but those Nations are certainly familiar with air-miles required to play rugby.

doctor_grey wrote:I think having some SH players in the NH club/team/franchise competitions adds to the game.

That cracked me up

Empathetic post there Fly. They say money can't buy you happiness but try saying that to someone without it and are struggling to put food on the table. NZ are hanging in there. Aus are on the ropes. SA are struggling. PIs have always struggled and will always be at the bottom of the rung. When/if NH ever dominate the game, there will be that nagging feeling that it won't be on merit. Rather, it's probably more likely to be that the fiercest competitors have been hollowed out and decimated to an extent that they collapse. That will be a proud moment I'm sure.

ebop wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think having some SH players in the NH club/team/franchise competitions adds to the game.

That cracked me up

OK, OK, OK. A bit more than some.

Not so long ago, someone had posted a list of the number of South Africans playing in each of the three major NH leagues. I wonder if someone has a list he can share of the number of Kiwis, Aussies, in addition to the South Africans, playing in each league. And also Pacific Islanders and the other miscellaneous countries. Would make interesting discussion.

Also, does anyone know the salary caps or salary level of players in each of the three SH countries?

ebop wrote:Empathetic post there Fly. They say money can't buy you happiness but try saying that to someone without it and are struggling to put food on the table. NZ are hanging in there. Aus are on the ropes. SA are struggling. PIs have always struggled and will always be at the bottom of the rung. When/if NH ever dominate the game, there will be that nagging feeling that it won't be on merit. Rather, it's probably more likely to be that the fiercest competitors have been hollowed out and decimated to an extent that they collapse. That will be a proud moment I'm sure.

You laugh Gwlad, but wrap your laughing gear around this mate

This is my best attempt at compiling next years list of SH players playing the French Top 14 (only) based on Wikipedia.  I've assumed it was up to date but apologies if there are errors.  This doesn't take into consideration SH players in the league below, coaches and support staff.  South Africa edge New Zealand, but there are New Zealanders under the PI nations that are either New Zealand born players with PI heritage or were brought up through the New Zealand system and poached from our club teams. If I were to work this out, I imagine New Zealand born/trained players would far exceed those from South Africa.

South Africa (57 players)
Albertus Buckle, Bakkies Botha, Ben Venter, Berend Botha, Brian Mujati, Bryan Habana, Charl McLeod, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Cobus Grobler, Coenraad Basson, Craig Burden, Demetri Catrakilis, Deon Fourie, Flip van-der-Merwe, François van-der-Merwe, Frans Viljoen, Gerhard Mostert, Gerhard Vosloo, Gert Muller, Gio Aplon, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heini Adams, Heinke van-der-Merwe, Hendrik Roodt, Jacques Cronjé, Jacques du-Plessis, Jandré Marais, Jannie Bornman, JC Janse-van-Rensburg, Jody Jenneker, Johan Coetzee, Johan Goosen, Juan Smith, Juandré Kruger, Kevin Buys, Marcel van-der-Merwe, Meyer Bosman, Morne Steyn, Naude Beukes, Pat Barnard, Paul Willemse, Pedrie Wannenburg, Peet Marais, Peter Grant, Petrus Hauman, Rassie Van-Vuuren, Riaan Smit, Riaan Swoepoel, Ricky Januarie, Robert Ebersohn, Ross Skeate, Ruaan du-Preez, Schalk Ferreira, Steven Kitshoff, Ulrich Beyers, Wian du-Preez, Wynand Olivier

New Zealand (54 players)
Adam Whitelock, Aled de-Malmanche, Alex Luatua, Alex Tulou, Anthony Tuitavake, Ben Tameifuna, Benson Stanley, Blair Stewart, Carl Hayman, Casey Laulala, Chris King, Chris Masoe, Corey Flynn, Dan Carter, Daniel Kirkpatrick, Dwayne Haare, Dylan Hayes, Fritz Lee, Hamish Gard, Hikairo Forbes, Hoani Tui, Hugh Chalmers, Jackson Willison, Jason Eaton, Jayden Spence, Joe Rokocoko,, Jono Owen, Karena Wihongi, Kendrick Lynn, Krisnan Inu, Lachie Munro, Luke Braid, Luke McAlister, Ma'a Nonu, Mathew Graham, Matthew Clarkin, Neemia Tialata, Nigel Hunt, Patrick Toetu, Peter Saili, Piri Weepu, Roimata Hansell-Pune, Romana Graham, Rory Grice, Rudi Wulf, Saimone Taumoepeau, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Stephen Brett, Toby Arnold, Tom Donnelly, Tom Taylor, Waisake Naholo, William Whetton, Zac Guildford

Australia (29 players)
Adam Ashley-Cooper, Alfie Mafi, Anthony Hegarty, Ben Hand, Ben Mowen, Blair Connor, Brock James, Damien Fitzpatrick, David Lyons, Dayna Edwards, Digby Ioane, Drew Mitchell, George Smith, Henry Vanderglas, Hugh Pyle, John Ulugia, Lalakai Foketi, Mark Chisholm, Matt Giteau, Nic White, Paul Alo-Emile, Peter Kimlin, Poutasi Luafutu, Quade Cooper, Richard Kingi, Salesi Ma'afu, Sekope Kepu, Sitaleki Timani, Will Genia

Fiji (27 players)
Akapusi Qera, Albert VuliVuli, Alipate Ratini, Benito Masilevu, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Gabiriele Lovobalavu, Jone Qovu, Josua Tuisova, Kini Murimurivalu, Levani Botha, Malakai Bakaniceva-Radikedike, Metuisela Talebula, Mosese Ratuvou, Napolioni Nalaga, Peceli Yato, Saïmoni Vaka, Sakiusa Matadigo, Samisoni Viriviri, Sevania Galala, Sireli Bobo, Sisa Koyamaibole, Timoci Matanavou, Timoci Nagusa, Uwa Tawalo, Venione Vortemaya, Waisea Nayacalevu, Waisele Sukanaveita

Samoa (15 players)
Alofa Alofa, Benjamin Sa, Census Johnston, David Smith, Joe Tekori, Maurie Fa'asavalu, Na'ama Leleimalefaga, Ole Avei, Paul Ah-Him, Paul Williams, Pelu Taele, Piula Fa'asalele, Sakaria Taulafo, Taiasina Tui'fua, Ti’i Paulo

Tonga (11 players)
Andrew Ma'ilei, Daniel Kilioni, Edwin Maka, Hemani Paea, Joe Tuineau, Lisiate Fa'aoso, Paea Fa'anunu, Soane Tonga'uiha, Sona Taumalolo, Vaea Fifita, Viliami Ma'afu

ebop wrote:You laugh Gwlad, but wrap your laughing gear around this mate

This is my best attempt at compiling next years list of SH players playing the French Top 14 (only) based on Wikipedia.  I've assumed it was up to date but apologies if there are errors.  This doesn't take into consideration SH players in the league below, coaches and support staff.  South Africa edge New Zealand, but there are New Zealanders under the PI nations that are either New Zealand born players with PI heritage or were brought up through the New Zealand system and poached from our club teams. If I were to work this out, I imagine New Zealand born/trained players would far exceed those from South Africa.

South Africa (57 players)
Albertus Buckle, Bakkies Botha, Ben Venter, Berend Botha, Brian Mujati, Bryan Habana, Charl McLeod, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Cobus Grobler, Coenraad Basson, Craig Burden, Demetri Catrakilis, Deon Fourie, Flip van-der-Merwe, François van-der-Merwe, Frans Viljoen, Gerhard Mostert, Gerhard Vosloo, Gert Muller, Gio Aplon, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heini Adams, Heinke van-der-Merwe, Hendrik Roodt, Jacques Cronjé, Jacques du-Plessis, Jandré Marais, Jannie Bornman, JC Janse-van-Rensburg, Jody Jenneker, Johan Coetzee, Johan Goosen, Juan Smith, Juandré Kruger, Kevin Buys, Marcel van-der-Merwe, Meyer Bosman, Morne Steyn, Naude Beukes, Pat Barnard, Paul Willemse, Pedrie Wannenburg, Peet Marais, Peter Grant, Petrus Hauman, Rassie Van-Vuuren, Riaan Smit, Riaan Swoepoel, Ricky Januarie, Robert Ebersohn, Ross Skeate, Ruaan du-Preez, Schalk Ferreira, Steven Kitshoff, Ulrich Beyers, Wian du-Preez, Wynand Olivier

New Zealand (54 players)
Adam Whitelock, Aled de-Malmanche, Alex Luatua, Alex Tulou, Anthony Tuitavake, Ben Tameifuna, Benson Stanley, Blair Stewart, Carl Hayman, Casey Laulala, Chris King, Chris Masoe, Corey Flynn, Dan Carter, Daniel Kirkpatrick, Dwayne Haare, Dylan Hayes, Fritz Lee, Hamish Gard, Hikairo Forbes, Hoani Tui, Hugh Chalmers, Jackson Willison, Jason Eaton, Jayden Spence, Joe Rokocoko,, Jono Owen, Karena Wihongi, Kendrick Lynn, Krisnan Inu, Lachie Munro, Luke Braid, Luke McAlister, Ma'a Nonu, Mathew Graham, Matthew Clarkin, Neemia Tialata, Nigel Hunt, Patrick Toetu, Peter Saili, Piri Weepu, Roimata Hansell-Pune, Romana Graham, Rory Grice, Rudi Wulf, Saimone Taumoepeau, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Stephen Brett, Toby Arnold, Tom Donnelly, Tom Taylor, Waisake Naholo, William Whetton, Zac Guildford

Australia (29 players)
Adam Ashley-Cooper, Alfie Mafi, Anthony Hegarty, Ben Hand, Ben Mowen, Blair Connor, Brock James, Damien Fitzpatrick, David Lyons, Dayna Edwards, Digby Ioane, Drew Mitchell, George Smith, Henry Vanderglas, Hugh Pyle, John Ulugia, Lalakai Foketi, Mark Chisholm, Matt Giteau, Nic White, Paul Alo-Emile, Peter Kimlin, Poutasi Luafutu, Quade Cooper, Richard Kingi, Salesi Ma'afu, Sekope Kepu, Sitaleki Timani, Will Genia

Fiji (27 players)
Akapusi Qera, Albert VuliVuli, Alipate Ratini, Benito Masilevu, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Gabiriele Lovobalavu, Jone Qovu, Josua Tuisova, Kini Murimurivalu, Levani Botha, Malakai Bakaniceva-Radikedike, Metuisela Talebula, Mosese Ratuvou, Napolioni Nalaga, Peceli Yato, Saïmoni Vaka, Sakiusa Matadigo, Samisoni Viriviri, Sevania Galala, Sireli Bobo, Sisa Koyamaibole, Timoci Matanavou, Timoci Nagusa, Uwa Tawalo, Venione Vortemaya, Waisea Nayacalevu, Waisele Sukanaveita

Samoa (15 players)
Alofa Alofa, Benjamin Sa, Census Johnston, David Smith, Joe Tekori, Maurie Fa'asavalu, Na'ama Leleimalefaga, Ole Avei, Paul Ah-Him, Paul Williams, Pelu Taele, Piula Fa'asalele, Sakaria Taulafo, Taiasina Tui'fua, Ti’i Paulo

Tonga (11 players)
Andrew Ma'ilei, Daniel Kilioni, Edwin Maka, Hemani Paea, Joe Tuineau, Lisiate Fa'aoso, Paea Fa'anunu, Soane Tonga'uiha, Sona Taumalolo, Vaea Fifita, Viliami Ma'afu

Facts are facts Gwlad. If you don't like them, that's not my problem mate.

Gwlad wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/aru-to-select-overseas-based-players/

They have to have 60 caps, 7 years contracted to the ARU, and will need to have agreed to be back in Super Rugby.

Jaysus, they might as well have added "Their name must be Matt Giteau".

Well since Deans forced him out it is right he should be able to return as i rate him as one of the classiest backs Aussie ever produced. Though being Welsh i wish they had bloody waited until after RWC.

Robbie Deans didn't force him out. Giteau was rubbish back then as was his attitude, both at Super Rugby and International level. His performance in the loss to Samoa was atrocious. One of the worst performances by a Wallaby 10 ever. He missed 4/5 penalties in a loss to Scotland, missed a sitter in front of the posts against England. I doubt you'll have to worry about facing Giteau in the WC. He may make the bench as he can cover 9/10/12. I don't doubt his attitude has vastly improved but is he a better player than 4/5 years ago? Highly doubtful. I don't know how he could have improved playing in France. No disrespect to the French league but its not the same as testing yourself against NZ and SA (provincial and international sides) week in, week out. One of the classiest Aussie backs ever? nah. Good but not great

ebop wrote:You laugh Gwlad, but wrap your laughing gear around this mate

This is my best attempt at compiling next years list of SH players playing the French Top 14 (only) based on Wikipedia.  I've assumed it was up to date but apologies if there are errors.  This doesn't take into consideration SH players in the league below, coaches and support staff.  South Africa edge New Zealand, but there are New Zealanders under the PI nations that are either New Zealand born players with PI heritage or were brought up through the New Zealand system and poached from our club teams. If I were to work this out, I imagine New Zealand born/trained players would far exceed those from South Africa.

South Africa (57 players)
Albertus Buckle, Bakkies Botha, Ben Venter, Berend Botha, Brian Mujati, Bryan Habana, Charl McLeod, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Cobus Grobler, Coenraad Basson, Craig Burden, Demetri Catrakilis, Deon Fourie, Flip van-der-Merwe, François van-der-Merwe, Frans Viljoen, Gerhard Mostert, Gerhard Vosloo, Gert Muller, Gio Aplon, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heini Adams, Heinke van-der-Merwe, Hendrik Roodt, Jacques Cronjé, Jacques du-Plessis, Jandré Marais, Jannie Bornman, JC Janse-van-Rensburg, Jody Jenneker, Johan Coetzee, Johan Goosen, Juan Smith, Juandré Kruger, Kevin Buys, Marcel van-der-Merwe, Meyer Bosman, Morne Steyn, Naude Beukes, Pat Barnard, Paul Willemse, Pedrie Wannenburg, Peet Marais, Peter Grant, Petrus Hauman, Rassie Van-Vuuren, Riaan Smit, Riaan Swoepoel, Ricky Januarie, Robert Ebersohn, Ross Skeate, Ruaan du-Preez, Schalk Ferreira, Steven Kitshoff, Ulrich Beyers, Wian du-Preez, Wynand Olivier

New Zealand (54 players)
Adam Whitelock, Aled de-Malmanche, Alex Luatua, Alex Tulou, Anthony Tuitavake, Ben Tameifuna, Benson Stanley, Blair Stewart, Carl Hayman, Casey Laulala, Chris King, Chris Masoe, Corey Flynn, Dan Carter, Daniel Kirkpatrick, Dwayne Haare, Dylan Hayes, Fritz Lee, Hamish Gard, Hikairo Forbes, Hoani Tui, Hugh Chalmers, Jackson Willison, Jason Eaton, Jayden Spence, Joe Rokocoko,, Jono Owen, Karena Wihongi, Kendrick Lynn, Krisnan Inu, Lachie Munro, Luke Braid, Luke McAlister, Ma'a Nonu, Mathew Graham, Matthew Clarkin, Neemia Tialata, Nigel Hunt, Patrick Toetu, Peter Saili, Piri Weepu, Roimata Hansell-Pune, Romana Graham, Rory Grice, Rudi Wulf, Saimone Taumoepeau, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Stephen Brett, Toby Arnold, Tom Donnelly, Tom Taylor, Waisake Naholo, William Whetton, Zac Guildford

Australia (29 players)
Adam Ashley-Cooper, Alfie Mafi, Anthony Hegarty, Ben Hand, Ben Mowen, Blair Connor, Brock James, Damien Fitzpatrick, David Lyons, Dayna Edwards, Digby Ioane, Drew Mitchell, George Smith, Henry Vanderglas, Hugh Pyle, John Ulugia, Lalakai Foketi, Mark Chisholm, Matt Giteau, Nic White, Paul Alo-Emile, Peter Kimlin, Poutasi Luafutu, Quade Cooper, Richard Kingi, Salesi Ma'afu, Sekope Kepu, Sitaleki Timani, Will Genia

Fiji (27 players)
Akapusi Qera, Albert VuliVuli, Alipate Ratini, Benito Masilevu, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Gabiriele Lovobalavu, Jone Qovu, Josua Tuisova, Kini Murimurivalu, Levani Botha, Malakai Bakaniceva-Radikedike, Metuisela Talebula, Mosese Ratuvou, Napolioni Nalaga, Peceli Yato, Saïmoni Vaka, Sakiusa Matadigo, Samisoni Viriviri, Sevania Galala, Sireli Bobo, Sisa Koyamaibole, Timoci Matanavou, Timoci Nagusa, Uwa Tawalo, Venione Vortemaya, Waisea Nayacalevu, Waisele Sukanaveita

Samoa (15 players)
Alofa Alofa, Benjamin Sa, Census Johnston, David Smith, Joe Tekori, Maurie Fa'asavalu, Na'ama Leleimalefaga, Ole Avei, Paul Ah-Him, Paul Williams, Pelu Taele, Piula Fa'asalele, Sakaria Taulafo, Taiasina Tui'fua, Ti’i Paulo

Tonga (11 players)
Andrew Ma'ilei, Daniel Kilioni, Edwin Maka, Hemani Paea, Joe Tuineau, Lisiate Fa'aoso, Paea Fa'anunu, Soane Tonga'uiha, Sona Taumalolo, Vaea Fifita, Viliami Ma'afu

quite a tremendous effort EBOP. a few of them will be retired or gone next season though , also think a couple might be in lower levels (proD2) as well. will try to have a look in details.

On the less broad (and admittedly less pressing issue), how much stronger do people feel that Australia will be for the RWC given this news?

Giteau and Mitchell are now available via this system, Pocock has returned from injury well, JOC and Cummins are back in super rugby and in the 50 man preliminary squad. Dean Mumm is also returning to Super Rugby so could get a look in once back in Australia.

Is it out of the realms of possibility that we could see an Australia RWC side such as below:

1.Slipper
2.Moore
3.Kepu
4.Mumm
5.Horwill or Simmons
6.Pocock
7.Hooper
8.McCalman

9.Phipps
10.Foley or Cooper

11.Cummins
12.Giteau
13.Kuridrani or Ashley-Cooper
14.Speight
15.Folau

With the likes of Skelton, Higginbotham, Nic White, Genia, Lealifano, Tomane, Beale and JOC also in the mix.

Jeez, that team looks pretty good.

king_carlos wrote:On the less broad (and admittedly less pressing issue), how much stronger do people feel that Australia will be for the RWC given this news?

I don't think we will be much stronger, if at all, because of this development Carlos.  Our big weakness is quality and depth at 3, 4 and 5 and unfortunately we won't get access to anyone much in those positions.  Even if they aren't stars, I think we could have benefited from Ma'afu and Longbottom especially as our TH depth is terrible.  Locks like Timani, Pyle, Kimlin and Douglas could also start to look appealing as a few injuries are inevitable and there isn't a lot going on for us in those positions.

In the next few years I think we will benefit from this change but the reality is that not many players currently qualify and none of them are in our poorer positions.  I do like the change though.  Without the depth of the others we needed to do something and the criteria they have created is worth a shot.

another list of players by "nation of origin" from this web site :
http://www.allrugby.com/joueurs
includes players who have contracts in clubs from Pro12, AP, Top14 and proD2 (hence the huge number of "french players").
the numbers are unfortunaley not very accurate as there is a bit of double accounting going on (for 6N capped players) , obvious mistakes (like Billy Vunipola as an Autralian player) and players that are still in the SH (next year signing).
however gives you a good idea of some ballpark numbers of SH players who have contracts in those competitions : around 155 from SA, 145 from NZ which is also similar to the total number of Irish players who have a pro contract

We all suffer from a lack of "depth of the others", boom!!!

The others? Who are they? England, possibly SA.... possibly NZ.

France have stuffed themselves in terms of depth as they don't allow their depth into the 'best' French Top14 sides.
SA will have their depth tested themselves if that racial quota thing starts up.

The Rest... Wales, Ireland, etc..... shallow.

SecretFly wrote:We all suffer from a lack of "depth of the others", boom!!!  

The others?  Who are they?  England, possibly SA.... possibly NZ.

France have stuffed themselves in terms of depth as they don't allow their depth into the 'best' French Top14 sides.
SA will have their depth tested themselves if that racial quota thing starts up.

The Rest... Wales, Ireland, etc..... shallow.

Our depth will be come a joke when the quota thing comes into play.

It will also flood the markets

boomeranga wrote:

king_carlos wrote:On the less broad (and admittedly less pressing issue), how much stronger do people feel that Australia will be for the RWC given this news?

I don't think we will be much stronger, if at all, because of this development Carlos.  Our big weakness is quality and depth at 3, 4 and 5 and unfortunately we won't get access to anyone much in those positions.  Even if they aren't stars, I think we could have benefited from Ma'afu and Longbottom especially as our TH depth is terrible.  Locks like Timani, Pyle, Kimlin and Douglas could also start to look appealing as a few injuries are inevitable and there isn't a lot going on for us in those positions.

In the next few years I think we will benefit from this change but the reality is that not many players currently qualify and none of them are in our poorer positions.  I do like the change though.  Without the depth of the others we needed to do something and the criteria they have created is worth a shot.

Dean Mumm being available should help the second row resources a lot, offering an experienced and high quality option to partner Simmons or Horwill.

Also having the possibility of Pocock and Hooper on the flanks could potentially give Aus the option of Skelton starting in the second row to offer some more tight 5 ballast. Pocock/Hooper along with McCalman or a returning Higginbotham would offer a huge work rate and breakdown presence in the back row to give you that option in the locks.

Props remain an issue of course. However, whilst I hate to admit it, I wouldn't be surprised to see scrums become less prevalent in this world cup than previous ones. Given the engagement laws and the difference in how it is refereed between different parts of the world I could see it having less of an impact sadly. Given the differing interpretations a lot could also come down to how players adapt in a match, where experience will become a key aspect. Whilst they may not be the best scrummagers, Robinson, Alexander, Slipper and Kepu do all have over 50 international caps.

"That's something that would have to be voted on by the World Rugby council".

So not getting my hopes up

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/world-rugby-ceo-brett-gosper-says-test-eligibility-rules-may-be-reviewed-20150504-1mz3is.touch.html?skin=smart-phone

Yeah. When you think about it, those are the only guys who actually can stall or stop the player drain issues with tougher rules.
At least they seem to be acknowledging this has become an issue that has gained momentum in recent years and has the potential to become a runaway train if they don't react with some modifications.

5 years residency rules and deletion of the granny rule would be a good start. The issue is that it would be more an issue for the likes of Scotland than France or England.

I'd say a Granny is still more legit than even a five year rule.  

A five year rule is still strictly Professionalism and to a degree still Mercenary Bizz.  At least a Granny clause brings a hint of 'cultural link' into the equation.  It's probably mostly still strictly Mercenary Bizz at a professional level but it has something at least remotely 'emotional' about it.
International should be unashamedly 'Nationalistic' - that's its selling point.  It ain't Club, it's Nation.  One Nation and it's people getting bragging rights over another one for a week or a year.  That's the beauty of it - old tribal/cultural loyalties written into sport - and not a bad thing - something to be cherished and protected as much as possible.

When you live in a country for 5 years, embrace the culture, learn the language and sometimes take a new nationality and marry a local woman, THen I think you are entitled to represent the local team as much as a local guy and in my opinion more than some bloke shipped somewhere he only knows from stories of his grandfathers and that after a couple of months!

whocares wrote:When you live in a country for 5 years, embrace the culture, learn the language and sometimes take a new nationality and marry a local woman, THen I think you are entitled to represent the local team as much as a local guy and in my opinion more than some bloke shipped somewhere he only knows from stories of his grandfathers and that after a couple of months!

Perhaps.  I didn't say I was against five years, btw,

I was responding to your assumption that such a duration is more legitimate than a son of a son of a particular National going back to that Nation to represent it.  I don't think Five Years is more legitimate.  I think a lot of cultural identity can cling very close and be passionately honest in a grandson that recalls or still has grandparents that have come from another Nation.  I wouldn't degrade such a connection at all.

BTW - if a player can 'embrace the culture' of a new nation within five years, then why can't he do so in three?  Why do those feelings need two more years of 'proof' before the player can be considered?

I'd assume it's merely a technical duration, it would be there only to stall the process of players moving to another country specifically with the hope of 'doing time' and getting into International?  

In that case even the Five Year limit theoretically insults genuine players, who have been in a country for only three but have married, might even have a kid and have already formed an emotional bond to the new Nation.  
So the truth would be that Five Years is merely another administrative line in the sand - it neither denotes honesty in the player nor a purely selfish dishonesty in wanting to Play International for Any Nation at any price.  We can't know what's in a player's heart, but we still have to have structures that protects International rugby from becoming another glorified Club contest.