Gennady Golovkin, One Of The Best Ever?

by **hampo17** Tue 12 May 2015, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

Gennady Golovkin, One Of The Best Ever? By Connor Mack

http://goo.gl/oB1At0

Look forward to seeing what Trussman has to say after reading this article Wink

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 May 2015, 2:42 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
AdamT wrote:I'd make GGG favourite but be a tough fight. Would love to see how he would do against Froch.

I think he's probably a different fighter at 168......Degale is bigger and taller...Southpaw.....

Certainly know plenty after a fight like that..

Forgot to put 'average' in there Trussie

He's a good fighter...

And you think GGG is average at best

i'm not in the mood for your stupid comments....Go and pretend you play golf.

It's raining and you can't seem to handle people pointing out contradictions in your ratings of certain fighters.

GGG would smash Degale to bits. Geale/Murray/Macklin are a fair way above what JD has fought so far. Not saying GGG is a modern great in the making, more that on record and him obliterating most put infront of him that DeGimpy would probably end up going the same way.

I sent you a PM some time ago Truss regarding golf, you should perhaps read it.

If you want a debate start by showing with me where I said he's average.....

I won't hold my breath..

by TopHat24/7 Thu 14 May 2015, 3:59 pm

AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

by TopHat24/7 Thu 14 May 2015, 4:00 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:middleweight divison is dire just like Heavyweight.

Ok, MiniTruss.....

Am I wrong though?

MW has an exciting champ (undisputed in all but name) and in Cotto, Quillin & Lee and then Geale, Lemiuex, Murray & BJS a better & more talented 2nd and 3rd tier below.

I agree with GGG being exciting. Cotto is not a middleweight and I am not convinced that Lee,etc make a division good. Heavyweight is probably looking healthier and that is saying something.

I agree he's full of crap.....

Ward, Froch. Degale, Groves would all make better fights than Quillin types....

What division are they in again??

MiniTruss & I are comparing MW and HW. Try to keep up you f*cking muppet.

I'm comparing supermidd and midd.............and I was aiming my comments at Adam..

He's seen some fights before 2010..

Then reply to your little buddy not me you dumb pr!ck.

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 4:00 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

by **rodders** Thu 14 May 2015, 4:01 pm

I'm surprised anyone thinks GGG could move up to super middle - to me he looks small at the weight and would probably make 154 and take on the likes of Mayweather easier than stepping up against much bigger men like Froch.

Once Froch retires not sure there are any decent fights at super middle anyway.

Would like to see him have a unification against Andy Lee and hopefully he can get Cotto, Canelo and Chavez in the ring.

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 4:05 pm

Floyd has nothing to gain fighting him at 154. His haters will claim GGG was drained.

No way in hell can Floyd even compete with GGG at 160. He would be killed

by **rodders** Thu 14 May 2015, 4:09 pm

AdamT wrote:Floyd has nothing to gain fighting him at 154. His haters will claim GGG was drained.

No way in hell can Floyd even compete with GGG at 160. He would be killed

I'm not disagreeing but think its unfair to say GGG needs to move up and go in against much naturally bigger men. Froch didn't feel he could compete at light heavy because he's naturally around 12 stone and think the same applies to GGG.

For GGG to have bigger fights people will have to move up or he could take on some smaller fighters at catch weight.

I think 168 is too much for GGG looking at him and the big fights are Stevenson and the other guys around light middle.

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 4:14 pm

I tell you what, I will concede that Cotto is running for the hills. GGG knocks him out.

I do like GGG, just nobody that can test him in his division.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 14 May 2015, 4:19 pm

AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

You don't get sh!t, clearly.

by Conor_Mack Thu 14 May 2015, 4:21 pm

I think Cotto will relinquish his titles after he takes on Geale (providing he wins). Maybe, just maybe, he'll take on Alvarez but not sure whether it will happen.

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 14 May 2015, 4:21 pm

I like a good argument as much as anyone but do we not think this has run it's course now?

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 4:22 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

You don't get sh!t, clearly.

Was going to debate this but what is the point. You clearly think GGG is Monzon, Robinson like. Happy days!

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 14 May 2015, 4:24 pm

Straw man argument

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 May 2015, 4:37 pm

AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

You don't get sh!t, clearly.

Was going to debate this but what is the point. You clearly think GGG is Monzon, Robinson like. Happy days!

You want to debate someone on here....debate me.

I'm the bollox... Cool

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 4:42 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

You don't get sh!t, clearly.

Would be accused of talking with myself!

Was going to debate this but what is the point. You clearly think GGG is Monzon, Robinson like. Happy days!

You want to debate someone on here....debate me.

I'm the bollox...

by Nico the gman Thu 14 May 2015, 5:46 pm

The problem GGG has, is if he stays in a not so great middleweight division beating average opposition how is he going be deemed an ATG, the fights become meaningless and routine.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 14 May 2015, 5:51 pm

Or he acquires a big fanbase and its easier for him to fight the big names

by Lance Thu 14 May 2015, 6:47 pm

Remember when Martin Murray came out publicly and tried to put the story straight about Golovkin after he fought Martinez?

Golovkin mentioned Murray being afraid to fight him and turning down big money offers. Murray and Hatton were bemused as they claimed to have had no contact from team Golovkin. Now obviously Murray wasnt afraid as he proved at a later date when Golovkin was ready to make an offer. Same happend with Geale. Similar stories from Sturm and Quilin.

Its all smoke and mirrors and his fans lap it up. They would much rather pay to see their man knock out nobodies whilst believing hes avoided than accept he wants to knock out every average fighter he can find before taking a challenge.

If Ward was exciting he wouldnt have needed the super 6 so badly.

Golovkin will step up when demand for his one sided beat ups diminishes.

Peolle are very gullable

by TopHat24/7 Thu 14 May 2015, 6:52 pm

AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Top Heavy

Heavyweight has Joshua and Wilder. They are hardly the second coming of Ali but much better than anything happening over in middleweight.

Anything about Wilder better than GGG? (other than being American, in case you want to take your Truss mimickery to the nth degree)

And how is a novice that's not fought anyone making up for a division of dross??

Least shows some potential coming through. Tophat we get it, you like GGG. So do I, he is a good fighter. The rest of the divison is still extremley poor in my opinion.

You don't get sh!t, clearly.

Was going to debate this but what is the point. You clearly think GGG is Monzon, Robinson like. Happy days!

Except I don't. You're just a clueless twerp incapable of individual thought who spends his entire time tossing Trussman's salad.

Given your inability to construct or maintain an argument, you could almost be an alias......

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 6:59 pm

Touchy

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 14 May 2015, 7:07 pm

Accurate rather. And uncommonly tactful for Tophat. Must have had a cheat day today

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 7:09 pm

Is he on a diet?

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 14 May 2015, 7:18 pm

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 May 2015, 7:28 pm

F**k me you can see Shah's last 11 posts without touching your mouse..

One line pointless crap..............Maybe the mods whilst they are checking Adam is an alias of mine........Can check whether Shah's an alias of Toppy.....

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 7:31 pm

Can the mods check that?

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 14 May 2015, 7:33 pm

Nice of you to check up on me Truss.

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 7:41 pm

Definitely an alias

by Derbymanc Thu 14 May 2015, 8:02 pm

Now don't go admitting it Ad/Truss, you might get a banning Wink

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 14 May 2015, 8:05 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Now don't go admitting it Ad/Truss, you might get a banning

I'm admitting it right now................... thumbsup

by AdamT Thu 14 May 2015, 8:26 pm

I'm Truss's more buff alter ego Smile

by milkyboy Fri 15 May 2015, 1:44 pm

of

3fingers wrote:Milky, he's not an ATG and moving up to fight Ward wouldn't make him one either because he'd lose, presuming Ward can still 'do it'.

He should stay where he is and possibly gain ATG status for longevity or remaining unbeaten. Canelo will be campaigning at Middle shortly anyway.

He won the World and Olympic titles at middleweight over 12 years ago, granted that's 165lb but that's same day weigh in.

If he wanted to he could cut to light middle in the pro game, what with day before weigh ins.

He's a career middleweight because hes a natural Middleweight. People say he's a small middleweight not because of his physical dimension but instead because he's not cutting down from LHW or SMW like some others. If he did what everyone else did he'd be fighting at Light Middle, if he was young boy he might even be able to cut welter.

If he moved up he'd be fighting guys who cut masively to the SMW limit. In effect he'd be moving up two weight classes, not one.

Fair enough fingers.

However, he won the world amateurs at 165 when he was what 21? You'd expect the natural maturing might mitigate the same day weigh-in factor. That said, he has said he could make light middle so perhaps he should have done so... Given the names around at that weight since he established himself.

My view on day before weigh ins, from a level playing field perspective, is two-fold:
1. They've largely just moved the weight divisions as most fighters take advantage of the dehydrate rehydrate cycle to some degree
2. It does however add an unwanted extra factor into weight making. It gives fighters the choice to dehydrate/rehydrate and drop a weight division, or don't do it and fight guys who will be bigger on fight night, but have killed themselves to do it. There's an argument that drastic weight cutting prior to weigh in is an advantage if the programme works but its risky. Plenty of the more successful fighters of our generation don't cut too much... Froch, mayweather, pacquaio. It was interesting that mayweather made Alvarez drop a few extra pounds but didn't stipulate a rehydration (fight night weight limit). He was more bothered about the depletion than the weight on fight night.

So ggg could fight at light middle and fight guys 'his own size' but chooses not to. Glamour of the division? Feels stronger for not cutting the weight? I don't know. Obviously some guys take greater advantage of this 'opportunity' to weight hop than others but its a choice. I don't claim any great knowledge in the physical impact of the dehydrate/rehydrate process on the body/performance. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that the body copes fine with moderate levels but not much I've read with regard to the extremes some fighters go to.

With respect to Ggg moving up. He has also said he would happily go to super middle or light heavy, his team like telling everyone he kills light heavies (inc kovalev) in sparring. So they gave fanned the flames and also himself obviously thinks he can up weight and win.

Given chavez is a busted flush, froch appears to be in semi retirement, maybe the bigger fight options at supermiddle are not what they were anyway... And light heavy is obviously a bigger leap.

For all rowley's frustrations, I think most people are just being pragmatic... If you can't get the fights move. It would be great if he didn't have to. Just like it would be great if all fights were on free to air. You play the game and join the party or cut your nose off to spite your face on principle.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 15 May 2015, 1:51 pm

Is this the same Canelo a former 130 pounder took the pee out of...

Yep he might lose to Ward at a higher weight but its alright to feast on jr middles..

by kingraf Sat 16 May 2015, 7:39 am

Reckon Monroe could give him a test here. The guy's an amateur standout and toyed with Vera. His only loss comes against possibly the greatest journeyman never was in boxing today, Darnell Boone. His previous level of opposition otherwise hasn't been standout, but he's Outclassed them well enough to at least prove that he's a cut above anything he (Monroe jr
that is) faced. Fast, southpaw, fantastic lateral movement. Personally reckon, ignoring reputation, this will be Golovkin's hardest fight since Ouma.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 16 May 2015, 8:36 am

30% ko percentage Mate....

by milkyboy Sat 16 May 2015, 8:42 am

Certainly a different style of opponent. If he's half the fighter his uncle was, he could make it awkward. You have to think though, it's one thing looking slippery against the calibre of fighter he's been facing and another doing it to golovkin, especially when you don't have the pop to fire back much in the way of a deterrent.

I watched a bit of the Vera fight when this fight was announced, I agree he can box and he 'a an awkward lefty. What would worry me, was that Vera was able to pin him on the ropes on a number of occasions... He doesn't want to be there with golovkin.

If he's tough I can see him making it awkward for a while, but would expect the body attack to slow him down.

Mid to late stoppage for me.

You'll get good odds if you're going for the upset raf!

by kingraf Sat 16 May 2015, 9:14 am

milkyboy wrote:Certainly a different style of opponent. If he's half the fighter his uncle was, he could make it awkward. You have to think though, it's one thing looking slippery against the calibre of fighter he's been facing and another doing it to golovkin, especially when you don't have the pop to fire back much in the way of a deterrent.

I watched a bit of the Vera fight when this fight was announced, I agree he can box and he 'a an awkward lefty. What would worry me, was that Vera was able to pin him on the ropes on a number of occasions... He doesn't want to be there with golovkin.

If he's tough I can see him making it awkward for a while, but would expect the body attack to slow him down.

Mid to late stoppage for me.

You'll get good odds if you're going for the upset raf!

Now now, Milky... No one said anything about any upset!!!

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Sat 16 May 2015, 9:32 am

This thread has gone on FAAAAAAAAR too long...........

by Lance Sun 17 May 2015, 8:58 am

Lets see if he waits 3 weeks for Cotto to beat Geale or if he is already looking to cash in on another beat up

by TopHat24/7 Sun 17 May 2015, 10:29 am

Only relevance to this fight was ref idiots like ONETWO suggesting GGG struggled with a 'slick Afro-American boxer' in Curtis Stevens (he didn't) and therefore GGG isn't all that as a result.

Last nnight put that BS to bed, nothing more.

by TopHat24/7 Sun 17 May 2015, 10:34 am

Lance wrote:Lets see if he waits 3 weeks for Cotto to beat Geale or if he is already looking to cash in on another beat up

That post makes no sense.

by catchweight Sun 17 May 2015, 11:22 am

You would need a spectacular lack of understanding of basic boxing economics to argue that not fighting Cotto is more economically beneficial than fighting him. Why the F would Golovkin would not want a big, financially lucrative, ppv fight with Cotto?

If Cotto gets through Geale, he will fight Alvarez anyhow. Thats a surefire. Lets see what weird and wonderful theories to balme Golovkin for that get made up. Should be fun.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 17 May 2015, 11:27 am

It all hinges on what Alvarez wants to do, he has two options and I don't see him bypassing a big big money Mexico vs Puerto Rico showdown with Cotto to fight Golovkin.

GGG is going to be waiting another to face Alvarez who will beat Cotto with something to spare, would rather they fought next but financially makes no sense to Canelo.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 May 2015, 11:43 am

Not the hardest fighter to hit is he ???...

Wouldn't mind seeing Lee vs GGG........Monroe was a pillow puncher..

Monroe told the referee he wanted out apparently.............In fairness to Murray he would have gone out on a stretcher..

A lot of JCC in GGG.........

by TopHat24/7 Sun 17 May 2015, 11:56 am

Agree. Andy Lee is the best fight out there for GGG if neither Cotto or Quillin will get in the ring with him.

by AdamT Sun 17 May 2015, 4:34 pm

Andy lee would give it a go. He can punch as well, though only one winner for me.

GGG beats the snot out of Canelo/Cotto for me. Perhaps that is why I want him to move up.

However if he wants to red up his division, that is fair enough I guess.

He can fight.

What about Rodriguez? That boy is something else.

by kingraf Sun 17 May 2015, 5:21 pm

Issue with GGG as an opponent is, yeah he does leave his chin out, but to land, you're going to have to enter the line of fire. Given the fact that he's never ever been dropped, and the power he possesses, it's a bit of a trap.

Reckon he's gotten a little more lax in defence this year, but you can't really blame him. His bargaining chip is his KO streak, he needs to keep it going, given the level of competition, Reckon he realises it's worth a few liberties to keep it moving.

by John Bloody Wayne Sun 17 May 2015, 5:29 pm

I can see Canelo being a lot of trouble. He looks at least as big, is comfortable under pressure and appears to have a decent chin to match his fantastic shot selection and power. He'd give GGG something to think about and I reckon Gennady would have to box like he did in the first couple of rounds vs Munroe (tighter guard, less wreckless) or get punished.

The area in which Alvarez always seems weak though is workrate. If he's gonna keep GGG at bay and take advantage of his suspect (at worst) stamina he'll need to throw a bit more.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 17 May 2015, 5:35 pm

His increased workrate usually means he misses alot though John. However he doesnt have to look far to find GGG so it might turn out to be a crazy fight.

by AdamT Sun 17 May 2015, 5:47 pm

GGG really UPS his game and gives Canelo a beat down in my opinion.

GGG can really box as well if he needs too. Perhaps if Canelo keeps improving he might stand a chance. Doubt it though.

I think people are slightly overrating GGG but he has looked really solid thus far. There is a reason Cotto and Canelo isn't allowed near him, or that Martinez wanted no part.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 17 May 2015, 5:50 pm

That post makes absolutely no sense at all, you say that he'd give Alvarez a beat and then say he's over rated, those two statements seem in conflict with one another.

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