Gennady Golovkin, One Of The Best Ever?

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Gennady Golovkin, One Of The Best Ever? By Connor Mack

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Look forward to seeing what Trussman has to say after reading this article

I don't hate GGG, he has a fan freindly style and is a really good fighter.

He is definitely floating though, he should move up one division.
Plenty of challenges there. Also believe Ward should go up as he has nothing really to prove at Super Middle, unless GGG moves up to fight him. We all know that will never happen, as he would take a loss and the invincible tag would be gone.

I think GGG should come down (as he's said he'd be happy to do) and fight 154 champ Floyd.

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think GGG should come down (as he's said he'd be happy to do) and fight 154 champ Floyd.

Yeah I agree

TopHat24/7 wrote:I think GGG should come down (as he's said he'd be happy to do) and fight 154 champ Floyd.

I know you are only posting to wind me up but I will answer anyway. Most great fighters move up weight divisons to prove their greatness. (Manny,Duran,Leonard, Hearns etc)

Not to move down to pick on smaller older fighters. Even if Floyd win, would you give him credit? People would accuse Floyd of draining him.

GGG should man up and face Ward. Get beat easily.

Two sides to the argument. It's easy to say that Golovkin should have moved up to 168 a while ago, but ramming that point home too much allows the likes of Martinez and Cotto a free pass for pretty clearly (in my opinion, anyway) not wanting anything to do with him, despite them styling themselves as the true Middleweight champion of the world.

Why should the onus always and unequivocally be on the avoided fighter to just accept what Martinez did and Cotto is doing because it's "a business" etc, but not on those guys to actually fight him? Particularly as Martinez and DiBella ended up using the same reasons to airbrush Golovkin out of the picture and pour cold water on a potential fight as they'd been slating Chavez Jr for using when it came to him brushing off the Martinez fight for as long as he could. I don't blame Golovkin initially staying put at 160 and trying to clear the whole thing out in the last eighteen months or whatever.

But I think it's knowing when enough is enough. It's fair enough to invest time in trying to achieve something such as unification or lurring targets such as Martinez, Cotto or Alvarez in to the ring, but if it's got to the point where all hopes of that are extinguished then it's time to move on to some new pastures if he wants to establish himself as one of the best fighters in the world. I think Golovkin, as of mid-2015, is getting very, very close to that point now, and if a Cotto or Alvarez fight hasn't materialised by the end of this year then it's definitely time to vacate his Middleweight belt and focus his attention on Ward.

I mentioned the Mosley comparison earlier - do what Mosley did. Move up in weight and prove it's not just empty words by fighting a ranked contender with decent pedigree to acclimatise yourslef to the new division (Mosley took on Rivera rather than jumping straight in there with Oscar, maybe Golovkin could take on a Rebrasse, a Chudinov or a Sanchez as an example). Force Ward to acknowledge that you've landed on his patch and force him in to having to take you on to justify his lofty position as a pound for pounder.

Like I said, I've had no issue with Golovkin staying at Middleweight overall because I think all things being right in the world he should have got a fight against Martinez and should get one against Cotto, but you can't exist on that kind of sentiment forever. One side needs to give pretty soon, either way.

The graphics are two of the worst uses of stats I've ever seen in sport.

Most great fighters didn't operate at a time when there were 18 odd divisions and you could drop a division by taking a dump.

Given the NA's won't fight him at 160, his only challenges are at 154 (Alvarez, Floyd, Lara) or 168 (most of the Top10+Ward [if still there]).

If he is comfortable in either direction he should move where the challenges are.

People telling fighters to move up really gets my goat. Fighters should fight at their optimum weight not move up and give the advantage to someone else. Yes fighters go up the weights, especially in the lower weight divisions, as they are separated by small amounts, however, these days most of the pros who move up have turned professional as they were still maturing. The likes of Rigo and GGG should not be expected to move up. It's naive to suggest otherwise, and is suggested purely from a fans perspective.

Some fighters which move may be on the juice, while other fighters have been killing themselves to make a weight far below what us natural; so when they do 'move'up all they are doing is moving to the category they should have been fighting in to begin with. GGG should stay where he is.

Thanks to everybody who replied to my article, some really good stuff here and a lot of interesting opinions.

88Chris05 wrote:Why should the onus always and unequivocally be on the avoided fighter to just accept what Martinez did and Cotto is doing because it's "a business" etc, but not on those guys to actually fight him? Particularly as Martinez and DiBella ended up using the same reasons to airbrush Golovkin out of the picture and pour cold water on a potential fight as they'd been slating Chavez Jr for using when it came to him brushing off the Martinez fight for as long as he could. I don't blame Golovkin initially staying put at 160 and trying to clear the whole thing out in the last eighteen months or whatever.

But I think it's knowing when enough is enough. It's fair enough to invest time in trying to achieve something such as unification or lurring targets such as Martinez, Cotto or Alvarez in to the ring, but if it's got to the point where all hopes of that are extinguished then it's time to move on to some new pastures if he wants to establish himself as one of the best fighters in the world. I think Golovkin, as of mid-2015, is getting very, very close to that point now, and if a Cotto or Alvarez fight hasn't materialised by the end of this year then it's definitely time to vacate his Middleweight belt and focus his attention on Ward.

The above post was quite interesting I thought and hit the nail on head. Its not GGG's fault the top men at middleweight have ducked him. If your a world champion, surely you should take on the best in your division for the right to stay a champion. Unfortunately, in today's era, this is a rarity. If he has to move up, then so be it. I don't think its fair that he should be criticized for the short comings of others though.

Scottrf wrote:The graphics are two of the worst uses of stats I've ever seen in sport.

What are you expecting chum?? I'm not Compubox am I? as mentioned, I merely wanted to see how Gennady compares to other well known MW's in terms of knockout and win ratio after 32 fights. Quality of opposition, the weak era at the minute and whether he would beat/is better than the boxers I listed wasn't taken into account because I believe that these things come down to a matter of opinion and can't really be properly measured, so I decided to produce a bit of truth and logic instead. If you have better stats/facts to offer, I'm sure others would like to hear them?

3fingers wrote:People telling fighters to move up really gets my goat. Fighters should fight at their optimum weight not move up and give the advantage to someone else. Yes fighters go up the weights, especially in the lower weight divisions, as they are separated by small amounts, however, these days most of the pros who move up have turned professional as they were still maturing. The likes of Rigo and GGG should not be expected to move up. It's naive to suggest otherwise, and is suggested purely from a fans perspective.

Good point, you can definitely draw a parallel between GGG and Rigo. Stylistically they are completely different but at the end of the day they both avoided like the plague by other champions in their divisions.

Golovkin should keep his schedule free for a whole week then try to negotiate with other top fighters.

He already has his next opponent lined up in Monte Carlo long before anybody has time to avoid him. He is making good money and keeping his fans happy by fighting one sided fights. He wont stop until the demand dries up.

He turned down Sturm in Germany couple years back. Not sure why people keep making up Quilin and Martinez avoiding hkm? Where were the offers?

Conor_Mack wrote:

Scottrf wrote:The graphics are two of the worst uses of stats I've ever seen in sport.

What are you expecting chum?? I'm not Compubox am I? as mentioned, I merely wanted to see how Gennady compares to other well known MW's in terms of knockout and win ratio after 32 fights. Quality of opposition, the weak era at the minute and whether he would beat/is better than the boxers I listed wasn't taken into account because I believe that these things come down to a matter of opinion and can't really be properly measured, so I decided to produce a bit of truth and logic instead. If you have better stats/facts to offer, I'm sure others would like to hear them?

I think it's more that they have no relevance in any shape or form, a statistic can only be used with context when there is no context what exactly is a statistic and it as this point they have no truth or logic.

3fingers wrote:People telling fighters to move up really gets my goat. Fighters should fight at their optimum weight not move up and give the advantage to someone else. Yes fighters go up the weights, especially in the lower weight divisions, as they are separated by small amounts, however, these days most of the pros who move up have turned professional as they were still maturing. The likes of Rigo and GGG should not be expected to move up. It's naive to suggest otherwise, and is suggested purely from a fans perspective.

the OP is asking whether he's one of the greatest. Most people are saying if he wants to be able to prove it, he may have to move up in weight because the competition at middle either isn't there or won't fight him. Is anyone saying he has to move up? People are saying if he wants to be able to prove his greatness he may have to. I think most people, even if they're fans and have never boxed have a rudimentary understanding of physiology, ageing and that fighting out of your natural weight class may disadvantage you. But if no-one had ever taken that chance we'd have missed out on some great fights down the ages.

From a fan's perspective I just want to see interesting and competitive fights, so i make no bones about wanting him to move up if he can;t secure meaningful fights at middle. It doesn't mean i feel he is obligated to. In the end I suspect he'll chase the dollar like everyone else, irrespective of weight class.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Conor_Mack wrote:

Scottrf wrote:The graphics are two of the worst uses of stats I've ever seen in sport.

What are you expecting chum?? I'm not Compubox am I? as mentioned, I merely wanted to see how Gennady compares to other well known MW's in terms of knockout and win ratio after 32 fights. Quality of opposition, the weak era at the minute and whether he would beat/is better than the boxers I listed wasn't taken into account because I believe that these things come down to a matter of opinion and can't really be properly measured, so I decided to produce a bit of truth and logic instead. If you have better stats/facts to offer, I'm sure others would like to hear them?

I think it's more that they have no relevance in any shape or form, a statistic can only be used with context when there is no context what exactly is a statistic and it as this point they have no truth or logic.

Yeah I understand what your trying to say HH. The context for me was the question "Is he an all time great IN THE MAKING". Sorry for the caps there, but I want to try and highlight that part of the question because I think its important. I completely agree that he can't be called great 32 fights into his career without having faced top quality opposition yet. "Potentially Great" is another thing all together, I believe that GGG has what it takes "to become an all time great" so I wanted to see how other fighters recognized as "all time greats" in the same division, had got on 32 fights into their careers.

I don't think he is an atg in the making

AdamT wrote:I don't think he is an atg in the making

Its all a matter of opinion Adam though isn't it?

No one can tell the future, but we can make an educated prediction based on what we see in the present and what we have seen in the past. I think he's got what it takes, phenomenal power, ring intelligience, sound defensive skills, a good chin, an absolute barrel load of experience under his belt.

I don't see why not, he just needs better opposition.

Conor he could be an Atg in talent, I can't say.

What defines an Atg these days? I have stated both Klitschko brothers as atg's but people laugh about their competition.

To be fair GGG has looked flawless thus far. Hopefully he gets the fights he wants soon. He obviously wipes the floor with Cotto and Canelo. Least in my opinion.

Will depend who GGG fights in the future that determine ATG, quality of opposition will always be taken into account, but I suppose if the division isn't that great that's not his fault, will definitely need to move up.

Don't know what super fights that are out there for him, but so far he looks the business.

AdamT wrote:Conor he could be an Atg in talent, I can't say.

What defines an Atg these days? I have stated both Klitschko brothers as atg's but people laugh about their competition.

To be fair GGG has looked flawless thus far. Hopefully he gets the fights he wants soon. He obviously wipes the floor with Cotto and Canelo. Least in my opinion.

Thats it mate, suppose no one can say for sure, all we can do is judge on what we see at the minute.

I suppose what defines an ATG is how dominate they where, the quality of opposition they faced, their skills, what they achieved in their careers, how they compared to other great fighters, if they were defeated how well they came back and it avenged it etc. Theres a lot of stuff that could be used to measure it, which is why its such a controversial topic.

I think the Klitschkos deserve their respect. I mean they have been top of the heavyweight division for last decade, but it has been an awful era at that weight, and their competition has been grim. I think they deserve their place somwhere, comparing heavyweights is even more complicated because they've gotten a lot bigger over time.

Canelo is a great fight for GGG, especially after see him do what he did to Kirkland at the weekend. Here's hoping they fight sooner rather than later.

Banging out jr middles.............

If Pedrosa is a great...............Then this guy might as well be too.....

What is it you don't like about the guy Truss? He's got good technique, hits like a mule, can take a punch, had good defence, and has demolished his nearest challengers, well the ones who would get in the ring with him at least.

So are you saying that GGG's record is worth nothing at all now Truss or what?

I don't get why you are incapable of giving the guy any credit at all and are insistence that everything is his fault?

Seriously, no digs or nothing, can we have an explanation of why you won't give a scrap of credit

Golovkin has been hamstrung by coming from a country with no big partisan following. If he were U.S, Mexican, British etc he would be a ppv superstar and have easy access to the big fights.

He has had to take a slow road and build his profile up gradually. Its only relatively recently he is starting to get the wider recognition. The idea he has been deliberately avoiding big fights for the last 8 years in order to make crap money is BS. He is one of the most avoided fighters of recent years. Not even rival promoters or trainers bother to hide this. He is doing what he has to do to keep building his profile by fighting regularly and delivering knockouts.

He has been unfortunate to come along at a time where avoiding fighters has never really been easier and the big fights for him havent come naturally. The big fights above his own division for him are Ward, Froch and until recently Chavez. Ward has never been realistic option in the last two years. He has been tied up in court and only now is returning to ease himself back into the picture with a walkover or two. Froch and Matchroom have repeatedly distanced the fight and have not bothered to hid the fact that they were holding out for Chavez. Chavez himself turned down the chance to fight Golovkin.

In his own division Cotto and Alvarez are the biggest fights. Neither enjoy fighting at the actual middleweight limit and neither are in a rush to fight him. Golovkin could move up to SMW, ditching his titles and status in the middlewight division in order to start at the back of another queue of fighters who will be giving him a wide berth unless they cant find a better pay day elsewhere.

The best thing that could happen for Golovkin is that Geale springs an upset on Cotto and that maybe then, Alvarez will go for it. The latest from Alvarez camp wasnt particularly encouraging regarding the ight. Apparently Alvarez is comfortable fighting in his 155lb weight class all on his own and the Golovkin fight will happen when the time is right. Matchroom have also come out and distanced themselves from the golovkin fight by saying they would prefer to see Froch retire now.

There are only two genuine PPV superstars............and one of them is a Filipino.....

PaulHv2 wrote:What is it you don't like about the guy Truss? He's got good technique, hits like a mule, can take a punch, had good defence, and has demolished his nearest challengers, well the ones who would get in the ring with him at least.

ANSWER: He's not American.

And how long did it take that Filipino to becaom a ppv superstar? And what fights did he need to get there?

catchweight wrote:Golovkin has been hamstrung by coming from a country with no big partisan following. If he were U.S, Mexican, British etc he would be a ppv superstar and have easy access to the big fights.

He has had to take a slow road and build his profile up gradually. Its only relatively recently he is starting to get the wider recognition. The idea he has been deliberately avoiding big fights for the last 8 years in order to make crap money is BS. He is one of the most avoided fighters of recent years. Not even rival promoters or trainers bother to hide this. He is doing what he has to do to keep building his profile by fighting regularly and delivering knockouts.

He has been unfortunate to come along at a time where avoiding fighters has never really been easier and the big fights for him havent come naturally. The big fights above his own division for him are Ward, Froch and until recently Chavez. Ward has never been realistic option in the last two years. He has been tied up in court and only now is returning to ease himself back into the picture with a walkover or two. Froch and Matchroom have repeatedly distanced the fight and have not bothered to hid the fact that they were holding out for Chavez. Chavez himself turned down the chance to fight Golovkin.

In his own division Cotto and Alvarez are the biggest fights. Neither enjoy fighting at the actual middleweight limit and neither are in a rush to fight him. Golovkin could move up to SMW, ditching his titles and status in the middlewight division in order to start at the back of another queue of fighters who will be giving him a wide berth unless they cant find a better pay day elsewhere.

The best thing that could happen for Golovkin is that Geale springs an upset on Cotto and that maybe then, Alvarez will go for it. The latest from Alvarez camp wasnt particularly encouraging regarding the ight. Apparently Alvarez is comfortable fighting in his 155lb weight class all on his own and the Golovkin fight will happen when the time is right. Matchroom have also come out and distanced themselves from the golovkin fight by saying they would prefer to see Froch retire now.

All this is 100% spot on and equally its sad for boxing.

catchweight wrote:And how long did it take that Filipino to becaom a ppv superstar? And what fights did he need to get there?

Duran was Panamanian.....

The issue is any piece headlined 'Gennady Golovkin, One Of The Best?' is going to illicit a fairly strong denial in response, headlines sell so they say but a bit more reality wouldn't go a miss.

He may be one of the best..

Be nice to find out................With all the trouble making Manny-May it still got made...

No excuse for this guy fighting chaff..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He may be one of the best..

Be nice to find out................With all the trouble making Manny-May it still got made...

No excuse for this guy fighting chaff..

Remind me, why didn't he fight Martinez? or why when Miguel Cotto gets asked about fighting him, does he suddenly disappear and we're left looking at a Cotto shaped cloud of smoke?

Truss is his advisor

The window of opportunity for a fight with Martinez was very small and I do think it's understandable to want a supposedly easy fight (Cotto) when you're trying out two busted knees following surgery.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He may be one of the best..

Be nice to find out................With all the trouble making Manny-May it still got made...

No excuse for this guy fighting chaff..

He appears quite happy to fight literally anyone at the weight. It can't be denied that Cotto and co. are running scared.

I think Chris' post is on the money. It really sucks for GGG that nobody wants to be destroyed by him, and he may have no choice but to move up at this stage in his career. I feel his weight would carry decently enough, and even if not he's hardly just a murderous puncher. He's got the skills to do well at SMW. Whether it's right for the onus to be on him vis-a-vis moving up is something else entirely.

Milky, he's not an ATG and moving up to fight Ward wouldn't make him one either because he'd lose, presuming Ward can still 'do it'.

He should stay where he is and possibly gain ATG status for longevity or remaining unbeaten. Canelo will be campaigning at Middle shortly anyway.

He won the World and Olympic titles at middleweight over 12 years ago, granted that's 165lb but that's same day weigh in.

If he wanted to he could cut to light middle in the pro game, what with day before weigh ins.

He's a career middleweight because hes a natural Middleweight. People say he's a small middleweight not because of his physical dimension but instead because he's not cutting down from LHW or SMW like some others. If he did what everyone else did he'd be fighting at Light Middle, if he was young boy he might even be able to cut welter.

If he moved up he'd be fighting guys who cut masively to the SMW limit. In effect he'd be moving up two weight classes, not one.

Silver wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He may be one of the best..

Be nice to find out................With all the trouble making Manny-May it still got made...

No excuse for this guy fighting chaff..

He appears quite happy to fight literally anyone at the weight. It can't be denied that Cotto and co. are running scared.

I think Chris' post is on the money. It really sucks for GGG that nobody wants to be destroyed by him, and he may have no choice but to move up at this stage in his career. I feel his weight would carry decently enough, and even if not he's hardly just a murderous puncher. He's got the skills to do well at SMW. Whether it's right for the onus to be on him vis-a-vis moving up is something else entirely.

Yes it can be denied...............

Froch has said the money on offer isn't good enough for this guy why should Cotto be different..............Froch also said he's a small middle and he thinks he'd back him up and put him away............I believe him....

Let's see this knob fight on the back foot..

Just because he's a smiling Russian who's probably a c**t behind closed doors........Try not to believe everything him and his camp tell you...

Rumor has it he offered Wlad 30,000 bucks for a fight and he's now ducking him too..

GGG is the boy who cried wolf...............and smart people can see through it.

Again why is he given no credit by you at all, people have posted times when he's been avoided etc yet your going on a gut feeling

Wasn't he supposedly avoiding Geale at one point???

i think he's a good fighter..................

Was he avoiding Geale ??................news to me..

Fair enough mate, I know it was mooted as I was one at the time that agreed with it, then he signed to fight him so egg on face and such

Only in boxing would a fighter be told to operate outside of his optimum division because the 'champion' at his weight did not fancy fighting him. Absolute BS, Cotto should be stripped and run out of the sport.

This is my issues with Catchweights Rowley, have them to make some of the bigger fights but they should never be employed for titles

Rowley wrote:Only in boxing would a fighter be told to operate outside of his optimum division because the 'champion' at his weight did not fancy fighting him. Absolute BS, Cotto should be stripped and run out of the sport.

Isn't he allowed a voluntary ?

Or is it only fighters you like that have the honor ?

Of course he is Truss, but why at a catchweight?

Quigg shouldn't be run out of the sport for 4 crap defences of a crap title..

Cotto beats the man at middle and some wally wants him run out of the sport for defending against Geale in his first defence...

Thank heavens for the TV section..

Why should it be at a catchweight?

I'd be reasonably confident after his voluntary one of the governing bodies will request he has a mandatory defence, I'll predict with equal confidence that mandatory will not be GG. none of it will be his fault. A voluntary was deserved a mandatory was unavoidable and so it goes.

GGG is in fact Cotto's mandatory challenger Jeff, how true the WBC stay to their word however is another thing altogether.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:Ok. You don't like him then because he hasn't done enough. What do you want him to do that doesn't involve anybody from a different weight???

Truss is already on record saying GGG should give away his entire purse to pay ducking North American's to get in the ring with him.

If it's on record you'll be able to dig up the post then...........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Let's see this knob fight on the back foot..

Just because he's a smiling Russian who's probably a c**t behind closed doors........Try not to believe everything him and his camp tell you...

He probably beats up women behind closed doors.

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Let's see this knob fight on the back foot..

Just because he's a smiling Russian who's probably a c**t behind closed doors........Try not to believe everything him and his camp tell you...

He probably beats up women behind closed doors.

What's wrong with that..