Regional A teams

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It looks like the superclubs have now hijacked the B&I Cup for themselves now that the LV is over.

Richard Holland is about as slimy as you get. Look at the email he sent. What a tool.

I was at the Ponty and Ebbw game yesterday, and I must say I really enjoyed myself, I did not see any of the bitterness towards opposition fans like has been mentioned on here, just good well behaved banter, the shed was full of Ebbw fans, a few of them who I knew, and the beer flowed and a good day was had by all. How refreshing it was to see rugby played on a muddy pitch, and players actually getting muddy, it reminded me of the days of old, I know we will never get those days back, but it was nice to know that they have not completely gone.

Well done Ponty, and well done Ebbw, it was a very high standard high intensity game, who ever says the Welsh Prem is not up to it, perhaps should try watching that game.

Steffan wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Does this mean the City and Llanelli teams will be replaced with A Teams as they are all doing poorly

No I think being as Llanelli Scarlets and Cardiff Blues Pro-Clubs have failed to reach any finals in European competitions they should now be replaced with a Wales 'A' team to bridge the gap between "regional" and national level in the European Rugby Champions Cup

If that fails we should try to merge with England Saxons (the team can still be called England Saxons but we will all turn up at Twickenham to support our local lads) and really give those other teams in Europe what for

So that Amlin Cup that the Blues won was just a dream then?

Steffan wrote:

Griff wrote:Just over 4000 crowd according to Wales Online.

Not bad then for a 4pm Sunday match which was live on TV

Pretty good for a semi-pro level game

Steffan wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:I know who it's by. They published it in their match day programme and put it on their own twitter feed though. You would think they'd maybe have better things to do than criticise Scarlets attendances on a day they were playing a final. Particularly when they then only get 2200 in.

As someone else said, there has been plenty of drivel against Ponty as well on social media. It's just the way Welsh rugby infighting goes. The problem we have on here is that people like you only want to highlight the Ponty stuff to suit your 'Ponty are the villains' manifesto as opposed to having a mature and open-minded discussion about the situation

You and other people on here don't like Ponty. Yes we get the picture Rev. Surely you have better things to be doing with your time than just coming on here to attack the club on a day where they won a fourth title in a row

Isn't there a pot and kettle situation here? I'm pretty sure that there are others who have issue with some people's 'Super-Clubs are evil' rants, as opposed to being open minded and mature discussion about the situation.

Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

Very weird going up to people asking them questions about the Dragons on a day where their mindset would've been purely Ebbw Vale anyway.

Though whatever your question was, Ebbw Vale are nothing like Pontypridd. For a start, they don't actively shout I will never be a dragon ad nauseam

Risca Rev wrote:

Very weird going up to people asking them questions about the Dragons on a day where their mindset would've been purely Ebbw Vale anyway.

Though whatever your question was, Ebbw Vale are nothing like Pontypridd. For a start, they don't actively shout I will never be a dragon ad nauseam

I was mingling Risca, I will have a chat to anyone when at a Rugby match, that is what I like about it, I will speak to a complete stranger who is sitting/standing next to me. Anyway, I was looking for people I knew would be there supporting Ebbw Vale, and I found them in the shed, they introduced me to others and we just got talking, and for some strange reason, probably because of people on this forum, I felt compelled to talk about Dragons, and how they perceived them, I can tell you from first hand, they were not very complimentary towards them.

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

LD, if you were to go to a Newport RFC game you would also find people (like a few of my mates) who want nothing to do with Gwent Dragons, even though they share a stadium with their club. So I'm not sure what your point is. There are just people out there, club fans, who do not like regional rugby. C'est la vie. I bet if you went up to some people in Ebbw Vale high street some of them wouldn't even like rugby at all. But that doesn't mean that rugby should be scrapped though does it?

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

LD, if you were to go to a Newport RFC game you would also find people (like a few of my mates) who want nothing to do with Gwent Dragons, even though they share a stadium with their club.  So I'm not sure what your point is.  There are just people out there, club fans, who do not like regional rugby.  C'est la vie.  I bet if you went up to some people in Ebbw Vale high street some of them wouldn't even like rugby at all.  But that doesn't mean that rugby should be scrapped though does it?

Yes I agree with you Griff, you are right. But what I wanted to point out was, that for all the people on here treating Pontypridd fans like a virus of Welsh rugby,they are not the only one's, there are other fans who feel exactly the same way as Pontypridd fans towards "their" region.

Some people still haven't got with the idea that if club rugby had continued in Wales the national team would be nowhere as good as they are now as there would have been too big a gap. Regions will take time to work but they are the way forward.

dragon4life wrote:Some people still haven't got with the idea that if club rugby had continued in Wales the national team would be nowhere as good as they are now as there would have been too big a gap. Regions will take time to work but they are the way forward.

Yes I agree, it's just that it was all done wrong in the first place, Newport should have merged with Cardiff, Llanelli should have merged with Swansea and Neath, Ebbw Vale should have merged with Ponty and Bridgend and there should have been a North Wales project/region from the start.

I agree but at the time they were made nobody would of wanted a Newport- Cardiff merger and north wales region would not have had the fan base

dragon4life wrote:I agree but at the time they were made nobody would of wanted a Newport- Cardiff merger and north wales region would not have had the fan base

Nobody wanted what we got now either, except Cardiff and Llanelli, but at least Cardiff payed for the privilege. Also, imagine what RGC1404 would look like now 13yrs down the line.

LordDowlais wrote:

dragon4life wrote:Some people still haven't got with the idea that if club rugby had continued in Wales the national team would be nowhere as good as they are now as there would have been too big a gap. Regions will take time to work but they are the way forward.

Yes I agree, it's just that it was all done wrong in the first place, Newport should have merged with Cardiff, Llanelli should have merged with Swansea and Neath, Ebbw Vale should have merged with Ponty and Bridgend and there should have been a North Wales project/region from the start.

So you would have taken rugby from west wales to put it in north wales?

If you want regions that are actual regions you need to have the west (Dyfyd) as the west, and not lump us in with Swansea and Neath which are more East than West.

LordDowlais wrote:

dragon4life wrote:I agree but at the time they were made nobody would of wanted a Newport- Cardiff merger and north wales region would not have had the fan base

Nobody wanted what we got now either, except Cardiff and Llanelli, but at least Cardiff payed for the privilege. Also, imagine what RGC1404 would look like now 13yrs down the line.

To a point your right there Lord, when regionalism came around, Llanelli RFC did not merge with any other current Welsh Premiership side, however Scarlets as a region are actually working as a region. The three semi-pro sides are all supported well by the region. In the B&I Cup the last few seasons Llanelli and Carmarthen have both been entered, and have had the full co-operation of the region and the other two semi-pro sides. The people from all the region turn up regularly to home games etc.

LordDowlais wrote:

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

LD, if you were to go to a Newport RFC game you would also find people (like a few of my mates) who want nothing to do with Gwent Dragons, even though they share a stadium with their club.  So I'm not sure what your point is.  There are just people out there, club fans, who do not like regional rugby.  C'est la vie.  I bet if you went up to some people in Ebbw Vale high street some of them wouldn't even like rugby at all.  But that doesn't mean that rugby should be scrapped though does it?

Yes I agree with you Griff, you are right. But what I wanted to point out was, that for all the people on here treating Pontypridd fans like a virus of Welsh rugby,they are not the only one's, there are other fans who feel exactly the same way as Pontypridd fans towards "their" region.

Perhaps they're treated like a virus because they're acting like one? Under the changes imposed on the pro game by the WRU everyone is supposed to sign up to the notion of regional rugby. It's like a pyramid where everyone below the pro teams are meant to feed upwards within the region. Of course not all liked it, but the vast majority have got on with it. Everyone seems to be doing their bit apart from Pontypridd who want no part of it. You can't have one rogue club going off and doing what it wants, not playing a part in the region but happy to take what's given to them. England too have a league pyramid structure where everyone signs up to develop the game in the interest of English rugby and Team England. You wouldn't find a rogue club there being allowed to get away with murder like Ponty.

I had sympathy with all teams that lost pro rugby at their grounds, I truly did. I still do for most. I would be gutted if I was an Ebbw fan or Bridgend or Neath, etc., etc. and pro rugby went from my ground. But those clubs have got on with it and actively play their part in the development of the pro game in their region. It was great seeing the guy from Bridgend at pitch side for the Ospreys game the other week, saying what a great occasion it was, looking forward to the game, etc. But I've lost all sympathy with Pontypridd as they only want to derail what is going on with other regions. It's not Newport's fault, for example, that regional rugby was introduced. Yet Ponty fans want the Dragons to fail, want to claim it's just a re-badged Newport, revel in poor results, call for Ponty to replace the Dragons in the pro12. Rarely do I see much of this ire directed at the WRU who set this up in the first place.

At some point there needs to be an ultimatum - either you sign up to this pyramid structure, like everyone else, or you leave the union. The prem clubs are paid by the WRU (a share of the circa £1.5m the Prem gets) so they should tow the line, IMO. Otherwise, what's the point of theym being in the league structure?

One final point: Ponty fans are complaining about the WRU changing the British and Irish Cup entries from Welsh Prem to Regional A. In my opinion Ponty have brought this on themselves! If they'd played their part in regional rugby then there would be no need to replace Welsh Prem teams in this cup. But because they're not bothering, Ponty's presence in the cup does nothing for the Pro game in Wales (which it is intended for) and thus the system is not working and something needed to change. Time to look at themselves I feel.

ScarletSpiderman wrote: however Scarlets as a region are actually working as a region

Are they though ? It could be argued otherwise. Anyway, I will concede that they are working as a region NOW, but only after being bailed out by the same organisation that Llanelli threatened to take to court if they could not get their own way in the first place. It could well have been easy for the WRU to say thanks but no thanks to Scarlets when they were given a £900,000 bail out, and then allowed the council to prop up the team as well. After the way the Scarlets fans behaved at the dawn of regionalism I think it is a bit rich for them to condemn the Pontypridd fans now.

It should have been done, East, West, Mid and North. Not the superclub regime we have now, but that is what we have got, so we MUST try and make it work.

Where would you have based these teams Dowlais?

Griff wrote:One final point: Ponty fans are complaining about the WRU changing the British and Irish Cup entries from Welsh Prem to Regional A. In my opinion Ponty have brought this on themselves! If they'd played their part in regional rugby then there would be no need to replace Welsh Prem teams in this cup. But because they're not bothering, Ponty's presence in the cup does nothing for the Pro game in Wales (which it is intended for) and thus the system is not working and something needed to change. Time to look at themselves I feel.

You do realise that Pontypridd have supplied players and coaches for Cardiff Blues don't you ? How could they be doing nothing and not doing anything to support it when they are. Just because they do not like it, it is not a crime.

Risca Rev wrote:Where would you have based these teams Dowlais?

Around the regions, with the bigger games played at the biggest grounds.

Seems a bit fanciful. Which ground would North Wales have used?

Risca Rev wrote:Seems a bit fanciful. Which ground would North Wales have used?

The Race course in Wrexam for the big games, and the one they are using now for the lesser games.

Griff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

LD, if you were to go to a Newport RFC game you would also find people (like a few of my mates) who want nothing to do with Gwent Dragons, even though they share a stadium with their club.  So I'm not sure what your point is.  There are just people out there, club fans, who do not like regional rugby.  C'est la vie.  I bet if you went up to some people in Ebbw Vale high street some of them wouldn't even like rugby at all.  But that doesn't mean that rugby should be scrapped though does it?

LD - I can't say I am totally surprised by your comment and on the whole I don't blame the Ebbw rank and file for thinking that way.

However one thing I will say - I attended the Dragons vs Saints game at EXP last August, which despite the foul weather, was well attended by locals and other gwentonians and the atmosphere, support and cheering when the Dragons won was there. Just goes to show when you take the pro game to these places that did lose their pro status (where practical) people will turn up, people will support.

Would the Ponty faithful ever support a blues side even if they played at Sardis? I dont know.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote: however Scarlets as a region are actually working as a region

Are they though ? It could be argued otherwise. Anyway, I will concede that they are working as a region NOW, but only after being bailed out by the same organisation that Llanelli threatened to take to court if they could not get their own way in the first place. It could well have been easy for the WRU to say thanks but no thanks to Scarlets  when they were given a £900,000 bail out, and then allowed the council to prop up the team as well. After the way the Scarlets fans behaved at the dawn of regionalism I think it is a bit rich for them to condemn the Pontypridd fans now.

It should have been done, East, West, Mid and North. Not the superclub regime we have now, but that is what we have got, so we MUST try and make it work.

Too true, which is why the idea of having west being based east of the centre mark, as many keep saying it should have been, is laughable.

GavinDragon wrote:Would the Ponty faithful ever support a blues side even if they played at Sardis? I dont know.

That is what we will probably find out with the Regional A games (if handled correctly).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

GavinDragon wrote:Would the Ponty faithful ever support a blues side even if they played at Sardis? I dont know.

That is what we will probably find out with the Regional A games (if handled correctly).

Didn't the Blues try to play an LV game at Sardis last season but Ponty said 'no thanks'?

Anyway,it was a jolly good game of rugby in Pontypridd yesterday. One that I will not forget.

Griff wrote:One final point: Ponty fans are complaining about the WRU changing the British and Irish Cup entries from Welsh Prem to Regional A.  In my opinion Ponty have brought this on themselves!  If they'd played their part in regional rugby then there would be no need to replace Welsh Prem teams in this cup.  But because they're not bothering, Ponty's presence in the cup does nothing for the Pro game in Wales (which it is intended for) and thus the system is not working and something needed to change.  Time to look at themselves I feel.

I agree with you that some Ponty fans do not do the club any favours but completely disagree that Ponty play no part in regional rugby

Ponty play Cardiff Blues players giving them plenty of game time. This is all part of the regional process and Ponty have to play these players as part of the Premiership agreement and funding. Of course I am not denying this also helps Ponty as well but the club is still playing a part in the regional process by training and fielding these players

I also know Ponty supporters/members who have been involved in Cardiff Blues Under 21s - Youth Levels whether it be in coaching or something as simple as cooking the post-match sausage and chips. As for Paul John and Chief...were these not ex Ponty players and now coaches snapped up by the Blues? All part of the regional process

Ponty have had some great home and away crowds in the B&I and been good representatives for Welsh rugby. I know some Bristol fans who came to the Sardis game and they said they had a great time and loved the atmosphere yet now according to you Ponty are not just responsible for their own exit from the B&I cup but also the other teams in Wales as well. Baffling mun

Have a go at Ponty fans all you want, some of them deserve it, but regardless of any resentment to Cardiff Blues or "regional" rugby in general, Ponty play their part just as much as anyone else

P.S. I'm 34 not 24 Griff

Steffan wrote:

Griff wrote:One final point: Ponty fans are complaining about the WRU changing the British and Irish Cup entries from Welsh Prem to Regional A.  In my opinion Ponty have brought this on themselves!  If they'd played their part in regional rugby then there would be no need to replace Welsh Prem teams in this cup.  But because they're not bothering, Ponty's presence in the cup does nothing for the Pro game in Wales (which it is intended for) and thus the system is not working and something needed to change.  Time to look at themselves I feel.

I agree with you that some Ponty fans do not do the club any favours but completely disagree that Ponty play no part in regional rugby

Ponty play Cardiff Blues players giving them plenty of game time. This is all part of the regional process and Ponty have to play these players as part of the Premiership agreement and funding. Of course I am not denying this also helps Ponty as well but the club is still playing a part in the regional process by training and fielding these players

I also know Ponty supporters/members who have been involved in Cardiff Blues Under 21s - Youth Levels whether it be in coaching or something as simple as cooking the post-match sausage and chips. As for Paul John and Chief...were these not ex Ponty players and now coaches snapped up by the Blues? All part of the regional process

Ponty have had some great home and away crowds in the B&I and been good representatives for Welsh rugby. I know some Bristol fans who came to the Sardis game and they said they had a great time and loved the atmosphere yet now according to you Ponty are not just responsible for their own exit from the B&I cup but also the other teams in Wales as well. Baffling mun

Have a go at Ponty fans all you want, some of them deserve it, but regardless of any resentment to Cardiff Blues or "regional" rugby in general, Ponty play their part just as much as anyone else

P.S. I'm 34 not 24 Griff

That one statement is pretty much the crux of the issue I have with the whole Ponty issue. They are part of the system, and they are doing their bit for the system the same as everyone else is/does. Yet they seem to be the only ones with the fans (at least the most vocal fans) who rage against the system the most, and claim not to be part of system.

Shock horror but other people in Welsh rugby are now sticking up for the clubs in Wales and have criticised Gareth Davies (don't worry though they are not Ponty people so you don't have to treat them as the route of all evil in Welsh ruby)

Principality Premiership chairman hits back over Gareth Davies remarks
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12955326.Principality_Premiership_chairman_hits_back_over_Gareth_Davies_remarks/

Welsh rugby coaching guru Allan Lewis backs Principality Premiership
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12956591.Welsh_rugby_coaching_guru_Allan_Lewis_backs_Principality_Premiership/

Allan Lewis hasn't criticised Gareth Davies, he's clarified how the WRU views the Premiership.

Why has the talk moved on to the Premiership, it's not in jeopardy is it? I think we can all agree that the premiership is useful and has a rich history, therefore we hope it stays put. The proposal is for Regional A teams to enter the B&I cup, which is the way forward. You only have to look at results across the board to see that it's ludicrous to keep on entering semi-pro teams into a pro league. I think Regional A teams will help address that, but also those players continue to turn out for their premiership teams so that they are getting regular rugby at a decent level.

As for Ponty, up until this year (and maybe last when Blues began contracting some token players) just how many players have they developed for the professional arena? I can't think of that many, bar perhaps Cory Hill. I don't really see a big issue with Davies' comments.

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I was not going to add this, but I will, ALL the Ebbw Vale fans I spoke to yesterday had NOTHING good to say about Dragons, in fact for the most parts, they did not want to be associated with anything to do with Dragons/Newport or Newport Gwent Dragons, they pretty much had the same attitude towards Dragons as Pontypridd do with Cardiff Blues. So it is not just the Pontypridd fans who have these views when it comes to regionalism.

Well you didn't speak to me or the crowd I was with so its not reflective of all Ebbw Vale fans.

Also the so called protest march was pretty lame and when I mentioned to a few Ponty fans that it was a pity we didnt have Dragons players given to us like the Blues had given to them they just choose to ignore that fact.

LordDowlais wrote:

dragon4life wrote:I agree but at the time they were made nobody would of wanted a Newport- Cardiff merger and north wales region would not have had the fan base

Nobody wanted what we got now either, except Cardiff and Llanelli, but at least Cardiff payed for the privilege. Also, imagine what RGC1404 would look like now 13yrs down the line.

13yrs is it? Blydi 'ell. Standalone-tastic.
Here's to the next 13yrs of arguing the toss. Ole!

bedfordwelsh wrote:Also the so called protest march was pretty lame and when I mentioned to a few Ponty fans that it was a pity we didnt have Dragons players given to us like the Blues had given to them they just choose to ignore that fact.

Ignoring facts? In Wales? I'm shocked. Not.

The Saint wrote:Why has the talk moved on to the Premiership, it's not in jeopardy is it? I think we can all agree that the premiership is useful and has a rich history, therefore we hope it stays put. The proposal is for Regional A teams to enter the B&I cup, which is the way forward. You only have to look at results across the board to see that it's ludicrous to keep on entering semi-pro teams into a pro league. I think Regional A teams will help address that, but also those players continue to turn out for their premiership teams so that they are getting regular rugby at a decent level.

As for Ponty, up until this year (and maybe last when Blues began contracting some token players) just how many players have they developed for the professional arena? I can't think of that many, bar perhaps Cory Hill. I don't really see a big issue with Davies' comments.

Gethin Jenkins came from Pontypridd. as did Martyn Williams, as did Matthew Rees. There's three British Lions that Pontypridd provided Cardiff Blues with.

Also at the moment in the Blues 1st team squad the following players have come from Pontypridd RFC:-

Chris Dicomidis
Jarrod Evans
Sam Hobbs
Owen Jenkins
Lewis Jones
Lou Reed
Aled Summerhill
Adam Thomas
Geraint Walsh
Rhys Williams
Matthew Rees
Gethin Jenkins
Garin Smith
Dillon Lewis

So that is 14 players in the Blues squad that have been nurtured at Pontypridd RFC. That's not to mention the other 4 or 5 players who came from Pontypridd, Aberdare, Merthyr and the Rhondda but went straight into Blues academy, that would have traditionally went into Pontypridd 's academy, so lets not say that Pontypridd do nothing for the region.

LordDowlais wrote:Also at the moment in the Blues 1st team squad the following players have come from Pontypridd RFC:-

Chris Dicomidis
Jarrod Evans
Sam Hobbs
Owen Jenkins
Lewis Jones
Lou Reed
Aled Summerhill
Adam Thomas
Geraint Walsh
Rhys Williams
Matthew Rees
Gethin Jenkins
Garin Smith
Dillon Lewis

so lets not say that Pontypridd do nothing for the region.

I've bolded the ones they can take back as they're just awful.

The ones in italic are yet to reach 10 games for the blues and are all academy products.

All in all i love this whole situation. Ponty are the only team kicking off about it aren't they? Oh well, maybe we should make the Welsh Premiership fully amateur and go back to the 'good old days of club rugby' they hark back to all the time.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Also the so called protest march was pretty lame and when I mentioned to a few Ponty fans that it was a pity we didnt have Dragons players given to us like the Blues had given to them they just choose to ignore that fact.

Now there's a surprise.

Steffan wrote:Shock horror but other people in Welsh rugby are now sticking up for the clubs in Wales and have criticised Gareth Davies (don't worry though they are not Ponty people so you don't have to treat them as the route of all evil in Welsh ruby)

Principality Premiership chairman hits back over Gareth Davies remarks
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12955326.Principality_Premiership_chairman_hits_back_over_Gareth_Davies_remarks/

Welsh rugby coaching guru Allan Lewis backs Principality Premiership
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12956591.Welsh_rugby_coaching_guru_Allan_Lewis_backs_Principality_Premiership/

In BOTH articles it says

"Clarke has shot back by claiming the league does underpin the regional structure and that all but one of the 12 players on dual national contract with Wales (New Zealand export Gareth Anscombe aside) were reared in the Premiership. "

That is not really true is it. Jake Ball was not really reared in the Premiership, he had a bleeding Super Rugby contract before he had a Welsh Prem. contract. Then there are ones like Samson Lee who were in the regional setup already when they were getting played in the prem, etc.

I spose Ponty won't be receiving their Cardiff Blues' allocation of players next season which should make the WP more of a level playing field.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Why has the talk moved on to the Premiership, it's not in jeopardy is it? I think we can all agree that the premiership is useful and has a rich history, therefore we hope it stays put. The proposal is for Regional A teams to enter the B&I cup, which is the way forward. You only have to look at results across the board to see that it's ludicrous to keep on entering semi-pro teams into a pro league. I think Regional A teams will help address that, but also those players continue to turn out for their premiership teams so that they are getting regular rugby at a decent level.

As for Ponty, up until this year (and maybe last when Blues began contracting some token players) just how many players have they developed for the professional arena? I can't think of that many, bar perhaps Cory Hill. I don't really see a big issue with Davies' comments.

Gethin Jenkins came from Pontypridd. as did Martyn Williams, as did Matthew Rees.  There's three British Lions that Pontypridd provided Cardiff Blues with.

Also at the moment in the Blues 1st team squad the following players have come from Pontypridd RFC:-

Chris Dicomidis
Jarrod Evans
Sam Hobbs
Owen Jenkins
Lewis Jones
Lou Reed
Aled Summerhill
Adam Thomas
Geraint Walsh
Rhys Williams
Matthew Rees
Gethin Jenkins
Garin Smith
Dillon Lewis

So that is 14 players in the Blues squad that have been nurtured at Pontypridd RFC. That's not to mention the other 4 or 5 players who came from Pontypridd, Aberdare, Merthyr and the Rhondda but went straight into Blues academy, that would have traditionally went into Pontypridd 's academy, so lets not say that Pontypridd do nothing for the region.

"Aled Summerhill started his rugby career with Porth RFC at the age of six, then moved to Pontypridd RFC Mini and Junior sections until the age of nine, before joining his Rhondda Schools U11 teammates at Treorchy RFC.

He played at outside half for Treorchy and Rhondda Schools until the age of fifteen, when he was converted to centre.

Summerhill studied at Coleg Morgannwg and represented the Blues at Under-16 level and Under-18 level where he has played for the past two years. At the age of seventeen, Summerhill trained with the Wales Sevens and was called up to train with the Blues senior side in the summer of 2013.

Aled toured South Africa with the Wales Under-18s in August, starting all three matches against France, England and South Africa at outside centre.

For the 2013/14 season, and as part of his on-going development, Aled was allocated to Pontypridd RFC as a regional player and helped the club achieve the league and cup double."

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/first_team_squad.php?player=97322&includeref=dynamic

The Saint wrote:Why has the talk moved on to the Premiership, it's not in jeopardy is it? I think we can all agree that the premiership is useful and has a rich history, therefore we hope it stays put. The proposal is for Regional A teams to enter the B&I cup, which is the way forward. You only have to look at results across the board to see that it's ludicrous to keep on entering semi-pro teams into a pro league. I think Regional A teams will help address that, but also those players continue to turn out for their premiership teams so that they are getting regular rugby at a decent level.

As for Ponty, up until this year (and maybe last when Blues began contracting some token players) just how many players have they developed for the professional arena? I can't think of that many, bar perhaps Cory Hill. I don't really see a big issue with Davies' comments.

As far as I can tell although I could be wrong, Ponty are also concerned about losing their allocation of players who train full time with Cardiff Blues. This undoubtly will affect their performance in the WP.

Steffan wrote:

Griff wrote:One final point: Ponty fans are complaining about the WRU changing the British and Irish Cup entries from Welsh Prem to Regional A.  In my opinion Ponty have brought this on themselves!  If they'd played their part in regional rugby then there would be no need to replace Welsh Prem teams in this cup.  But because they're not bothering, Ponty's presence in the cup does nothing for the Pro game in Wales (which it is intended for) and thus the system is not working and something needed to change.  Time to look at themselves I feel.

I agree with you that some Ponty fans do not do the club any favours but completely disagree that Ponty play no part in regional rugby

Ponty play Cardiff Blues players giving them plenty of game time. This is all part of the regional process and Ponty have to play these players as part of the Premiership agreement and funding. Of course I am not denying this also helps Ponty as well but the club is still playing a part in the regional process by training and fielding these players

I also know Ponty supporters/members who have been involved in Cardiff Blues Under 21s - Youth Levels whether it be in coaching or something as simple as cooking the post-match sausage and chips. As for Paul John and Chief...were these not ex Ponty players and now coaches snapped up by the Blues? All part of the regional process

Ponty have had some great home and away crowds in the B&I and been good representatives for Welsh rugby. I know some Bristol fans who came to the Sardis game and they said they had a great time and loved the atmosphere yet now according to you Ponty are not just responsible for their own exit from the B&I cup but also the other teams in Wales as well. Baffling mun

Have a go at Ponty fans all you want, some of them deserve it, but regardless of any resentment to Cardiff Blues or "regional" rugby in general, Ponty play their part just as much as anyone else

P.S. I'm 34 not 24 Griff

Would be interested to know what the other clubs in the WP receive with regards to allocation of full time trained players. How many do Bedwas reel out on a Saturday afternoon for instance?

Cardiff Dave wrote:I spose Ponty won't be receiving their Cardiff Blues' allocation of players next season which should make the WP more of a level playing field.

I would hope they don't too.

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I spose Ponty won't be receiving their Cardiff Blues' allocation of players next season which should make the WP more of a level playing field.

I would hope they don't too.

I presume this would also apply to the other WP clubs if we're getting pro A teams competing in the BIC and against each other. Might be one or two lent out, if and when required I spose.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I spose Ponty won't be receiving their Cardiff Blues' allocation of players next season which should make the WP more of a level playing field.

I would hope they don't too.

I presume this would also apply to the other WP clubs if we're getting pro A teams competing in the BIC and against each other. Might be one or two lent out, if and when required I spose.

I don't think the regional A teams will play enough games, will they? I think these fringe players still need to be with prem clubs or they'll only be playing a handful of games each season. Luke Garett, for example, has broken into the Dragons team this year but has also played 25 games for Cross Keys this season. You could argue his Cross Keys (and wales u20) form this season has catapulted him into the Dragons squad. It's arguable I s'pose that he wouldn't have pushed on with just a handful of A team caps. Dorian Jones has turned out 7 times for them this year. Ollie Griffiths has had 14 games for Newport. That's as much googling as I can bother with now! But unless they players can play week in week out then, for me, they'll not develop properly or will leave in search of regular rugby.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Why has the talk moved on to the Premiership, it's not in jeopardy is it? I think we can all agree that the premiership is useful and has a rich history, therefore we hope it stays put. The proposal is for Regional A teams to enter the B&I cup, which is the way forward. You only have to look at results across the board to see that it's ludicrous to keep on entering semi-pro teams into a pro league. I think Regional A teams will help address that, but also those players continue to turn out for their premiership teams so that they are getting regular rugby at a decent level.

As for Ponty, up until this year (and maybe last when Blues began contracting some token players) just how many players have they developed for the professional arena? I can't think of that many, bar perhaps Cory Hill. I don't really see a big issue with Davies' comments.

Gethin Jenkins came from Pontypridd. as did Martyn Williams, as did Matthew Rees.  There's three British Lions that Pontypridd provided Cardiff Blues with.

Also at the moment in the Blues 1st team squad the following players have come from Pontypridd RFC:-

Chris Dicomidis
Jarrod Evans
Sam Hobbs
Owen Jenkins
Lewis Jones
Lou Reed
Aled Summerhill
Adam Thomas
Geraint Walsh
Rhys Williams
Matthew Rees
Gethin Jenkins
Garin Smith
Dillon Lewis

So that is 14 players in the Blues squad that have been nurtured at Pontypridd RFC. That's not to mention the other 4 or 5 players who came from Pontypridd, Aberdare, Merthyr and the Rhondda but went straight into Blues academy, that would have traditionally went into Pontypridd 's academy, so lets not say that Pontypridd do nothing for the region.

Well I did say apart from up until recent years...and aren't the majority of that list from recent years? Ponty tried doing a Neath at first and it's only now they're doing more for Welsh rugby. I hope it continues.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:Shock horror but other people in Welsh rugby are now sticking up for the clubs in Wales and have criticised Gareth Davies (don't worry though they are not Ponty people so you don't have to treat them as the route of all evil in Welsh ruby)

Principality Premiership chairman hits back over Gareth Davies remarks
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12955326.Principality_Premiership_chairman_hits_back_over_Gareth_Davies_remarks/

Welsh rugby coaching guru Allan Lewis backs Principality Premiership
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/12956591.Welsh_rugby_coaching_guru_Allan_Lewis_backs_Principality_Premiership/

In BOTH articles it says

"Clarke has shot back by claiming the league does underpin the regional structure and that all but one of the 12 players on dual national contract with Wales (New Zealand export Gareth Anscombe aside) were reared in the Premiership. "

That is not really true is it.  Jake Ball was not really reared in the Premiership, he had a bleeding Super Rugby contract before he had a Welsh Prem. contract.  Then there are ones like Samson Lee who were in the regional setup already when they were getting played in the prem, etc.

Exactly. Most players are spotted at a young age and put into Regional academies. As they mature, it is THEN they are farmed out to a premiership team where they most regularly play. They should benefit greater from often playing in Regional A teams against higher standard (than the prem) opposition.

Whilst I agree with the concept of regional A teams for the B&I cup, but I still think there is need for these players to be with the Welsh Prem clubs as well. These players need to be playing week in week out.

Players are being nurtured in the Welsh prem, Pontypridd along with other teams are providing plenty of players for the Blues and the Blues academy, and they do need game time, if these kids need to play,then they should play in the clubs closest to where they live in a club at the highest level. So because the valleys provide the bulk of the players at Cardiff Blues, it makes the most sense to play them at a valleys club, and the closest high profile club for anyone from Merthyr, Rhondda, Aberdare e.c.t is Pontypridd, perhaps that is why the Blues put so much players there.