Englands' 50 man Training Squad for RWC

by **LondonTiger** Wed 20 May 2015, 12:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

England Rugby World Cup training squad (50)
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

by Geordie Mon 01 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

Jbeadle

I can't see both Slade and Cipriani making it, particularly if Goode is in the squad as a second playmaker. I have a feeling Cipriani might make way, since we need a player who can cover 12 and 13 more than one who can cover 15.

I have held back on the Cipriani praise, but I think now he is due some...he is able to control a game. He can also play FB...and I think he's a stronger option than Goode.

With my selection - Barritt, Farrell, Slade and Eastmond can all cover 12/13

I equally can't see Eastmond making it with the number of other players who could cover 12. I'd think it's possible Barritt will be the only true 12, with Burgess, Slade and Farrell covering. If Burgess isn't brought in, then I'd reckon Burrell will be the final centre, also providing a bit of ballast.

Eastmond has played exceptionally well and I think we would be daft to ignore what he can bring...especially when looking at Burrells inept performances through the 6n and Twelvetrees (we'll not even go there)

I don't think he played well when he came on in the Prem final, but Webber will surely be in the squad, if only because having both George and LCD in is too much of a risk. Given that George had a good final (he can shift for a fat lad), I reckon he'll make it.

This is a more open position with Hartley out. Youngs will start, and id back George to bench. He's progressed so much and offers all round ability in that traditional front row physique. Both those hookers can carry very well also which helps greatly.
After that its probably between Webber and LCD...experience or potential.

As an outside bet, I wouldn't be shocked to see Kruis out in favour of Itoje. Kruis hasn't been outstanding for England so far, and Itoje just looks like he belongs at the top level

Kruis is a quality player don't doubt that. He's put in some genuine top class performances for Sarries...and whilst maybe not quite shining yet for England is one to work with. Itoje will not be in the final squad...

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Mon 01 Jun 2015, 1:41 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jbeadle

I can't see both Slade and Cipriani making it, particularly if Goode is in the squad as a second playmaker. I have a feeling Cipriani might make way, since we need a player who can cover 12 and 13 more than one who can cover 15.
I have held back on the Cipriani praise, but I think now he is due some...he is able to control a game. He can also play FB...and I think he's a stronger option than Goode.

With my selection - Barritt, Farrell, Slade and Eastmond can all cover 12/13

I equally can't see Eastmond making it with the number of other players who could cover 12. I'd think it's possible Barritt will be the only true 12, with Burgess, Slade and Farrell covering. If Burgess isn't brought in, then I'd reckon Burrell will be the final centre, also providing a bit of ballast.
Eastmond has played exceptionally well and I think we would be daft to ignore what he can bring...especially when looking at Burrells inept performances through the 6n and Twelvetrees (we'll not even go there)

I don't think he played well when he came on in the Prem final, but Webber will surely be in the squad, if only because having both George and LCD in is too much of a risk. Given that George had a good final (he can shift for a fat lad), I reckon he'll make it.
This is a more open position with Hartley out. Youngs will start, and id back George to bench. He's progressed so much and offers all round ability in that traditional front row physique. Both those hookers can carry very well also which helps greatly.
After that its probably between Webber and LCD...experience or potential.

As an outside bet, I wouldn't be shocked to see Kruis out in favour of Itoje. Kruis hasn't been outstanding for England so far, and Itoje just looks like he belongs at the top level
Kruis is a quality player don't doubt that. He's put in some genuine top class performances for Sarries...and whilst maybe not quite shining yet for England is one to work with. Itoje will not be in the final squad...

I agree with your assessment of the players. I just have a feeling that Lancaster will view it differently. Goode is pretty much guaranteed to be there, for instance.

I do think Eastmond will miss out . Absolutely fantastic player, but with Tuilagi out, England will have a pretty small backline by modern standards. For that reason alone, I think Burrell will be favoured.

I've only really seen Kruis for England, where he's looked decent, but hasn't had any outstanding moments. I wouldn't be disappointed to see him in the squad, I just think Itoje seems to be timing a late charge rather perfectly.

by Geordie Mon 01 Jun 2015, 2:14 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Jbeadle

I can't see both Slade and Cipriani making it, particularly if Goode is in the squad as a second playmaker. I have a feeling Cipriani might make way, since we need a player who can cover 12 and 13 more than one who can cover 15.
I have held back on the Cipriani praise, but I think now he is due some...he is able to control a game. He can also play FB...and I think he's a stronger option than Goode.

With my selection - Barritt, Farrell, Slade and Eastmond can all cover 12/13

I equally can't see Eastmond making it with the number of other players who could cover 12. I'd think it's possible Barritt will be the only true 12, with Burgess, Slade and Farrell covering. If Burgess isn't brought in, then I'd reckon Burrell will be the final centre, also providing a bit of ballast.
Eastmond has played exceptionally well and I think we would be daft to ignore what he can bring...especially when looking at Burrells inept performances through the 6n and Twelvetrees (we'll not even go there)

I don't think he played well when he came on in the Prem final, but Webber will surely be in the squad, if only because having both George and LCD in is too much of a risk. Given that George had a good final (he can shift for a fat lad), I reckon he'll make it.
This is a more open position with Hartley out. Youngs will start, and id back George to bench. He's progressed so much and offers all round ability in that traditional front row physique. Both those hookers can carry very well also which helps greatly.
After that its probably between Webber and LCD...experience or potential.

As an outside bet, I wouldn't be shocked to see Kruis out in favour of Itoje. Kruis hasn't been outstanding for England so far, and Itoje just looks like he belongs at the top level
Kruis is a quality player don't doubt that. He's put in some genuine top class performances for Sarries...and whilst maybe not quite shining yet for England is one to work with. Itoje will not be in the final squad...

I agree with your assessment of the players. I just have a feeling that Lancaster will view it differently. Goode is pretty much guaranteed to be there, for instance.

I do think Eastmond will miss out . Absolutely fantastic player, but with Tuilagi out, England will have a pretty small backline by modern standards. For that reason alone, I think Burrell will be favoured.

I've only really seen Kruis for England, where he's looked decent, but hasn't had any outstanding moments. I wouldn't be disappointed to see him in the squad, I just think Itoje seems to be timing a late charge rather perfectly.

Absolutely and he's far more qualified than me. My assessment above of the squad I would pick, I said I think we're missing some bulk oh Manu!! Burrell was outstanding at 13 last year in the 6n, but was anonymous at 12 this season.

The likes of Sam Hill and Stephenson will come to the fore more next season after the world Cup. Itoje falls into the same brackets for me. He should be an England stalwart for years and maybe captain (though he must get past the still young Lawes and Launchbury) but let him get another good summer and pre season with Sarries, and then really challenge after the WC when Lancaster will be starting the whole process for the 4 yr build up to the next WC.

I don't think we would be that weak...Farrell and Barritt are no weaklings, whilst Slade is a fantastic defender and Joseph gets stuck in.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 01 Jun 2015, 2:18 pm

Launchbury and Lawes are certain to go. Everything Lancaster has done suggests Parling will be the third lock. Attwood will do everything he can during the summer to displant Parling.

Now if we assume that we take 17 forwards - with 5 props and 3 hookers that leaves 6 spots for back row and additional second row cover. That probably means 5 out and out back rowers and one player who can cover back and second row. This obviousley puts Attwood at a disadvantage (though either of the three named above could cover BS at a push). Four of the back rowers will be (fitness permitting) Morgan, Robshaw, Vunipola and Wood - leaving just one space for a specialist.

in the backs, if we assume we will take 14 we will probably see 3 SHs, 6 players to cover 10/12/13 and 5 players to cover the back 3.

Looking at FH and Centre, it is probable that Ford, Faz, Barritt and JJ will take spots, leaving just two spots. Like others I struggle to see both Cipriani and Slade being included in this scenario.

by lostinwales Mon 01 Jun 2015, 2:19 pm

If I did that kind of thing I might have a sneaky bet on Slater jumping the queue

by beshocked Mon 01 Jun 2015, 4:09 pm

Geordiefalcon you can't compare Hill and Stephenson to Itoje. Neither of them are currently on the England radar. Not in the same bracket at all.

Itoje in comparison started for his club in the AP final and aided his team in victory. He's also one of the best English forward prospects for some time.

Only 20 years old. He's stepped up to every challenge thrown at him so far.

People keep on writing off Itoje. I said a few weeks ago he could be a bolter and he's not let me down so far. I think he can make the 31.

Just needs to be given game time in the warm ups if he stays fit.

Lancaster wouldn't have included Itoje in the 50 if he didn't see the potential.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 01 Jun 2015, 4:42 pm

Is he a 6 or 2nd row long term? Still can t see him getting in the squad.

by wilco84 Mon 01 Jun 2015, 7:39 pm

Hi,
New to the forum. I reckon Lancaster 31( it is definitely 31 according to world cup website)
Front row:marler mako Cole Wilson corbs youngs Webber George( even though Webber out of form can't see two newbies picked)
2nd row: launchbury lawes parling/attwood and either itoje/slater(back row cover)
Back row: wood robshaw Billy v Morgan Haskell(easter if Morgan not fit)
Sh: care youngs wigglesworth
Fh: Ford Farrell slade ( better cover than cips)
Centre: Joseph barritt daly/burrell
Back 3: Brown Goode nowell yarde Watson

Wouldn't have Goode in there, there's enough full back
Cover. Would have both Daly and Burrell instead

by **LondonTiger** Mon 01 Jun 2015, 7:46 pm

depending on injuries that looks not far off the mark.

Of course all we can do is speculate until the warm-ups start.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:29 am

Looks like Cipriani's out of the running too. It's just getting ridiculous now. I don't understand how players haven't learned from Tuilagi and just kept their heads down. How stupid do you have to be to not learn the lesson? And Cipriani of all people who, after years in the wilderness, finally seemed to be forcing his way into the squad. I'm speechless. Poor Lancaster must be beside himself.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:42 am

Pretty much nailed on for Slade now.

by Poorfour Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:00 am

What an idiot. This squad is looking like it's going to be almost self-selecting.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:45 am

I wonder just how late he had been partying after the win over Barbarians? Was that journey before or after he had been to bed?

by HammerofThunor Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:50 am

5:15 in the morning. Early morning or late night? I don't know how it works but don't they do blood tests to check and would they arrest him before doing it? How reliable are breathe tests? If he does get done for it he should be dropped from the squad

by thomh Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:05 am

HammerofThunor wrote:5:15 in the morning. Early morning or late night? I don't know how it works but don't they do blood tests to check and would they arrest him before doing it? How reliable are breathe tests? If he does get done for it he should be dropped from the squad

I have a feeling (might be wrong) that they have to have arrested someone already before doing blood tests, as it's an intrusive sample. Stop and search powers wouldn't cover it.

by Jimpy Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:38 am

Poorfour wrote:What an idiot. This squad is looking like it's going to be almost self-selecting.

No real loss to be honest, Cipriani was an outside chance anyway. Pity though, because he'd shown enough promise to make the initial list.

by Poorfour Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:46 am

thomh wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:5:15 in the morning. Early morning or late night? I don't know how it works but don't they do blood tests to check and would they arrest him before doing it? How reliable are breathe tests? If he does get done for it he should be dropped from the squad

I have a feeling (might be wrong) that they have to have arrested someone already before doing blood tests, as it's an intrusive sample. Stop and search powers wouldn't cover it.

He was in a crash with another vehicle. That's an automatic breath test, and if that's failed it's a automatic blood test.

Best case scenario would seem to be if he wasn't at fault for the accident, and he'd been to bed and didn't realise he was still over the limit - but Care's incident was similar and still resulted in him getting dropped.

by Geordie Tue 02 Jun 2015, 9:17 am

What a prize b...end!

If that's the case then he should be dropped...Manu was stupid, Hartley was nothing really...but drink driving is a serious issue.

Throw the book at him!

As said above...Slade pretty much certain of a spot now. Back up for 10...but also gives Lancaster flexibility in the positions he can cover.

by king_carlos Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:02 pm

He would probably have just missed out on the squad but was our best option as back up to Ford and Farrell.

The third 10 in the squad will likely be as a centre first and foremost so wouldn't have been surprised to see Slade in the final 31.

Myler is now next in line if Ford or Farrell go down injured. Unless Lancaster decided to use Slade as a 2nd FH then Twelvetrees or Goode as the back up in the squad.

Basically let's hope that Ford or Farrell don't go down injured or do anything as stupid as other members of the initial 50.

by lostinwales Tue 02 Jun 2015, 2:09 pm

The RFU have said they will wait to see the results of the investigation first before making a decision. No guarantees either way yet.

by Geordie Tue 02 Jun 2015, 3:39 pm

king_carlos wrote:He would probably have just missed out on the squad but was our best option as back up to Ford and Farrell.

The third 10 in the squad will likely be as a centre first and foremost so wouldn't have been surprised to see Slade in the final 31.

Myler is now next in line if Ford or Farrell go down injured. Unless Lancaster decided to use Slade as a 2nd FH then Twelvetrees or Goode as the back up in the squad.

Basically let's hope that Ford or Farrell don't go down injured or do anything as stupid as other members of the initial 50.

Slade has been 10 and 13 this season for Exeter, with Nowell also playing 13.

Surely he is ideal as the 3rd Fly half.

by king_carlos Tue 02 Jun 2015, 3:47 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:He would probably have just missed out on the squad but was our best option as back up to Ford and Farrell.

The third 10 in the squad will likely be as a centre first and foremost so wouldn't have been surprised to see Slade in the final 31.

Myler is now next in line if Ford or Farrell go down injured. Unless Lancaster decided to use Slade as a 2nd FH then Twelvetrees or Goode as the back up in the squad.

Basically let's hope that Ford or Farrell don't go down injured or do anything as stupid as other members of the initial 50.

Slade has been 10 and 13 this season for Exeter, with Nowell also playing 13.

Surely he is ideal as the 3rd Fly half.

That's what I meant GF. It was pretty poorly written I now realise, apologies.

I was meaning to say that Slade would likely have been the 3rd fly half regardless of the outcome of the investigation into Cips.

However Cipriani would have been the next to come in had Ford or Farrell got injured and had this happened may well have leap frogged Slade onto the bench as back-up 10.

The police investigation is yet to come but the silence from Cipriani, Sale and England would suggest that the reports are correct and he will have no excuse.

by Gwlad Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:12 pm

Poorfour wrote:
thomh wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:5:15 in the morning. Early morning or late night? I don't know how it works but don't they do blood tests to check and would they arrest him before doing it? How reliable are breathe tests? If he does get done for it he should be dropped from the squad

I have a feeling (might be wrong) that they have to have arrested someone already before doing blood tests, as it's an intrusive sample. Stop and search powers wouldn't cover it.

He was in a crash with another vehicle. That's an automatic breath test, and if that's failed it's a automatic blood test.

Best case scenario would seem to be if he wasn't at fault for the accident, and he'd been to bed and didn't realise he was still over the limit - but Care's incident was similar and still resulted in him getting dropped.

no it isn't. If he fails the breath test he is arrested on sus and then put on the intoximeter at a Pol station whereupon a marginal fail he can elect for blood samples to be used

by Gooseberry Tue 02 Jun 2015, 6:36 pm

Tell you what its just as well they picked a squad of 50 isnt it. Seemed excessive at the time.

by Geordie Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:07 pm

What's people's thoughts on Eastmonds chances?

by Gooseberry Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:13 pm

Outside.

Theres 2 centers nailed on, and Farrell offers some cover. Slade acts a good utility back, Burgess gives them the opportunity to cover center whilst also having a 6 2 bench split and Burrell and Twelvetress were both previously ahead of him in the pecking order.
Theres likely only going to be 3 centers picked, I see him and daley as real outsiders.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 02 Jun 2015, 7:38 pm

Eastmond will have to have a stunning training camp imo to be a contender.

by Poorfour Tue 02 Jun 2015, 8:53 pm

Gwlad wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Eastmond will have to have a stunning training camp imo to be a contender.

and avoid being arrested, seems that will increase his stock immeasurably

Nope. To do that, he has to trick all the other contenders into getting arrested.

So far, each of the incidents could be summed up by the headline "Person who does stupid things does another stupid thing." Eastmond might find it a bit harder to provoke the remaining squad members to similar levels of stupidity. The prime remaining candidates are Haskell, who appears to limit his stupidity to chambermaids and the pitch, and Care, who has successfully refrained from stupidity for longer than any of the others.

by **RDW** Wed 03 Jun 2015, 8:28 am

Gwlad - this emoticon pretty much sums you up just now

Broken Record

Time to move on please

by yappysnap Wed 03 Jun 2015, 10:51 am

When are the friendlies??

by BamBam Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:09 am

Full list here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup_warm-up_matches#Part._II_Summer_2015

England games

15 August v France at Twickenham
22 August v France in Paris
5 September v Ireland at Twickers

by yappysnap Wed 03 Jun 2015, 11:14 am

Might look at getting tickets for the first one then

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Wed 03 Jun 2015, 2:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Gwlad - this emoticon pretty much sums you up just now

Time to move on please

I can't quite tell what that's meant to be. Is it a doughnut or a turd?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 03 Jun 2015, 2:06 pm

Broken record

by Jimpy Wed 03 Jun 2015, 2:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Broken record

I think you missed jbeadlesbigrighthand's point!

Yahoo

by Gwlad Wed 03 Jun 2015, 5:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Gwlad - this emoticon pretty much sums you up just now

Time to move on please

Licquorice allsort Darling?

Don't mind if i do.

by Gwlad Wed 03 Jun 2015, 5:24 pm

Jimpy wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Broken record

I think you missed jbeadlesbigrighthand's point!

Small things Jimpy, please small minds.

by Gwlad Wed 03 Jun 2015, 7:43 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Poorfour wrote:Gwlad, if you had been paying the slightest attention to what England have actually been doing this season, you would know that Farrell is far from central to England's plans. He hasn't even played for England since November. George Ford has started England's last seven games and played well enough that he's firmly established as first choice in the eyes of virtually everyone except, it seems, you. Farrell is a useful alternative now that he's back to form and fitness, but England's attack works less well with him on the pitch, and Ford's one big weakness compared to him - place kicking - is now no longer a weakness.

In addition, you might have noticed that Danny Cipriani and Henry Slade masterminded a record victory over what was on paper a strong Barbarians side yesterday. Whatever you think about that BaaBaas side, it had more experience than its opposition - including several RWC winners and several Lions - and a scratch England XV featuring one likely 1st XV starter (Launchbury) and several debutants ripped them to shreds.

So while losing Farrell might have been inconvenient, it's not as if England are short of options. At hooker, for all Hartley's discipline issues, he remains our most reliable setpiece hooker. If England were going to influence disciplinary proceedings, or if someone were looking to do it on their behalf, they'd have worried more about saving Hartley than saving Farrell.

Or perhaps the truth is that Farrell's tackle was a clumsy effort but without intent, and exacerbated by Watson already falling at the point it was made, whereas Hartley's - while innocuous in effect (in fact, positively beneficial given that Jamie George took his place in the squad) - was deliberate contact with the head and therefore something that the laws of rugby have to address?

But you seem to find that unpalatable, whereas you don't appear to have commented on two Irish and one French internationals escaping bans for what were apparently equally severe offences - or that World Rugby are now monitoring citings and will presumably intervene if they see anything amiss.

As someone with a degree in psychology, please can you enlighten me as to what personality traits might be indicated by someone who consistently makes disparaging and usually unsubstantiated remarks against a particular group, most often in discussions populated mostly by members of that group, and while hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard?

Class

Class…not really a trait actually jimpy is it, but yes i am graduate class. But you shouldn't put yourself down jimpy. Carrying the machine gun is very important.

by Jimpy Thu 04 Jun 2015, 8:02 am

Gwlad wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Broken record

I think you missed jbeadlesbigrighthand's point!

Small things Jimpy, please small minds.

That must be why you keep polluting this forum then.....?

by **RDW** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:38 am

This is becoming tiresome.

Any chance some actual rugby discussion can break out?

If not certain posters will find themselves on the naughty step.

by **RDW** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:40 am

Also, jimpy/gwlad - please put each other on your foe list.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:49 am

So, what does Magenta colouring indicate?

by beshocked Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:50 am

Didn't watch the AP final unfortunately but by the sounds of it - Eastmond was bullied by the Saracens defence.

Eastmond might work if you partner him with Farrell. Basically pairing a big 10 with a little 12.

Two potential backlines of

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Barritt
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

9.Care
10.Farrell
11.Yarde
12.Eastmond
13.Burrell
14.Ashton
15.Goode

Balance is important obviously.

by **RDW** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 9:51 am

LondonTiger wrote:So, what does Magenta colouring indicate?

That they're in serious trouble! Very Happy

Also that I was walking my dog without my contacts in so couldn't see properly....

by Geordie Thu 04 Jun 2015, 10:18 am

beshocked wrote:Didn't watch the AP final unfortunately but by the sounds of it - Eastmond was bullied by the Saracens defence.

Eastmond might work if you partner him with Farrell. Basically pairing a big 10 with a little 12.

Two potential backlines of

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Barritt
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

9.Care
10.Farrell
11.Yarde
12.Eastmond
13.Burrell
14.Ashton
15.Goode

Balance is important obviously.

Cant look past that one.

by HammerofThunor Thu 04 Jun 2015, 10:22 am

Beshocked, the way I saw the final the Bath backs were smothered because they were out numbered by the Saracens defence. Mainly because their forwards were ineffective at tying them in at the ruck. If England's forwards are going to be out powered and ineffective the. Eastmond is a bad choice. If they can tie in the defenders I'd be more than happy with him in there.

Edit: Beshocked/GF agree that it's the probably first choice backline. And should be decent enough.

by king_carlos Thu 04 Jun 2015, 3:33 pm

With the final 31 due to be announced after the first 2 warm-up games, which players do people feel could force their way in with big performances in those two matches?

Ed Slater - I'd take 4 second rows rather than 3 and a utility forward everytime. With Lawes, Launchbury and Parling all looking nailed on Slater could offer a 4th alternative with a differing skill set and the option of a big ball carrier in the boiler room.

Matt Kvesic - Wood and Haskell will likely be the 2 flankers accompanying Robshaw and I wouldn't be upset about it as they offer versatility, experience and differing options. However Kvesic gives a greater breakdown presence and link work than either plus he'd give a back up to Robshaw. Haskell and Wood both wear 7 for their club but the former has showed inconsistency in his recent international chances and the later has an unfortunate record with injury. Neither great qualities for a tournament that demands (hopefully) 7 games in a row at high intensity.

by Geordie Thu 04 Jun 2015, 4:20 pm

King C,

Kvesic should be in there as to the fact he's played class all season for Glos and is Captaincy material as well thus offering another leader on the pitch (should he get on)

As to the lock...its between Slater, Kruis, Attwood.
All offer differing skills...but Kruis is part of a Championship winning side. Does that give him advantage? Probably not. It all goes down to how they perform in the build up.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 04 Jun 2015, 4:32 pm

I reckon we have competition for:

5th prop - but Corbs versatility makes him favourite.
2nd/3rd Hooker
4th lock - if we take 4. I think we will, but I think that means we would be light in the back row so they would have to feel that a second row could cover back row.
5th back row - assuming Morgan is fit we will have two big no8s and billys fitness means he lasts the whole game and can cover 6. Haskell favourite atm. Would love Kvesic to be genuinly considered, but I just cannot see the coaches doing that.

3rd FH/Utility Back - Cipriani vs Slade
3rd Centre
3rd Winger

I reckon the following are nailed on unless they get injured or show appalling form in warm-ups:

Marlet, Mako, cole, Wilson, Youngs, Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Robshaw, wood, Morgan, billyV, Youngs, Wiggy, Care, ford, Farrell, Barritt, JJ, Nowell, Watson, goode, Brown

by king_carlos Thu 04 Jun 2015, 4:32 pm

GF,

Agree on Kvesic but whether he will be there is another matter.

For the 4th lock I'd throw Itoje in as well. I wouldn't take him personally as I want that 4th guy to be a second first and foremost and I currently view Itoje as more of a blindside at senior level. However Lancaster has shown in both his EPS selections (Clark as a 'second row') and his 6 Nations squads (Easter covering second row) that he isn't adverse to having more back row cover at the expense of his locks. As such Itoje could be at an advantage as he offers flanker cover in a similar mould to what Lancaster likes - high work rate, low error count and strong set piece work.

It will be interesting to see which of the second rows get given a chance in that first warm-up game as Launchbury is in need of game time and the coaches wont want Lawes or Parling going in undercooked. As such the chance for others to impress may be limited.

Personally I'd rather use those first two warm-ups to give different options a chance to impress then use the third to field as close to a first choice 23 as possible.

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