Englands' 50 man Training Squad for RWC

by **LondonTiger** Wed 20 May 2015, 12:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

England Rugby World Cup training squad (50)
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Sam Burgess (Bath Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Nick Easter (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

by Jimpy Fri 10 Jul 2015, 10:31 am

bluestonevedder wrote:
beshocked wrote:
BamBam wrote:Slater, Itoje, Daly, Myler and Easter (sort of) to be dropped from the squad

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11730314/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Stuart-Lancaster-to-axe-five-from-England-squad.html

Real shame if true. I guess it shows who Lancaster's biggest favourites are - Sam Burgess and Calum Clark.

Must be reasons for dropping Itoje. Personally I think he's getting dropped simply because of his lack of experience which I think is the wrong move but I could be wrong.

I guess England's lost will be Saracens gain though.

If this is true then the lock options have effectively been picked now. Kind of disappointing to see Attwood still there. Seems like a safe/uninspiring selection.

I feel that England are making error by dropping Itoje and Daly in particular.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here beshocked. I would have loved to see Daly especially lineup in a RWC game.

Injury really ruined this year for Slater. If he had had a full season I think we would see him there rather than Attwood.

But is a World Cup, in a group that includes Australia and Wales, the time to introduce these players at this level? People are fond of saying that club form doesn't always translate into international form, I don't think this is the time to find out.

by BamBam Fri 10 Jul 2015, 10:31 am

Didn't even twig that Clark is still in there, I like his breakdown play but he's not getting ahead of Robshaw/Wood/Haskell and doesn't offer a point of difference compared to them that the carrying of an Itoje might have done

by beshocked Fri 10 Jul 2015, 10:32 am

bluestonevedder I agree Slater's chance has been ruined by injury in my opinion. It's the reason why I never really thought he would or should make the England squad.

Seems like there are still too many 12 options left in the squad. Surprised that no one like 36 or Eastmond has been culled.

by lostinwales Fri 10 Jul 2015, 10:43 am

I can sort of understand all of those choices, but it does still leave us very heavy on wings for one position.

Slater hasn't had the best year
Itoje is probably there more for experience than anything else
It was always going to be either or for Myler and Cips.
Daly was always on the periphery and for all his talents there are question marks over his defence
And Easter really depended upon Ben Morgan's fitness

by Tiger/Chief Fri 10 Jul 2015, 10:46 am

I Can see why they are dropping Daly if Henry Slade is going to stay in the squad, Very different 13's and they're keeping Joseph (who is similar to Daly)

Gutted for Itoje who is a victim of Parling and Attwood's experience and not much else! The lad is going to be immense for England and the Lions for years to come. If Union did away with competitive lineout's i cannot see a way that Itoje wouldn't be in the squad ahead of Parling and i think he actually offers more grunt that Attwood. That's coming form a Exeter fan who have just signed Parling.

by Geordie Fri 10 Jul 2015, 11:21 am

Looking more likely that Slade is showing well in training.

The point has just been raised above...this is a 4 week or however long competition...for players who are performing NOW...not players who could be good in 12 months time.

Itoje might be a different case, but Attwood (possibly most peoples views are that he's massively under performed as to how we wanted him to) Kruis etc are all drilled on the tactics, calls etc.

The bottom line will be based on how the guys are going in training. Rowntree will have a big say in who he wants in his pack...and everyone rates Rowntrees opinons. He must not feel Itoje is ready as of now for a WC or has performed to the requirements in training.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 10 Jul 2015, 11:28 am

Thought that 1 of Slater or Itoje would be kept on to be honest but it's a really strong area for England at the moment. Glad Burgess is still there and comments that he's looking impressive from Lancaster are encouraging.

by Geordie Fri 10 Jul 2015, 11:35 am

Yeah Rowntree had glowing reports about Burgess in training. Said he was one hell of a specimen.

So was Haskell though...and he never fulfilled what he should have been as a player.

by Geordie Fri 10 Jul 2015, 11:36 am

So it'll be:
Parling, Lawes, Launchbury, Kruis, Attwood

by Poorfour Fri 10 Jul 2015, 11:57 am

lostinwales wrote:I can sort of understand all of those choices, but it does still leave us very heavy on wings for one position.

Slater hasn't had the best year
Itoje is probably there more for experience than anything else
It was always going to be either or for Myler and Cips.
Daly was always on the periphery and for all his talents there are question marks over his defence
And Easter really depended upon Ben Morgan's fitness

Easter's not dropped - just not travelling as he has a back problem that needs attention and might be aggravated by a long flight. It's stated in the press release that he will rejoin the squad in August.

None of these changes seem particularly surprising or disappointing. Itoje will almost certainly play a big role in England's future, but it would be a huge gamble to drop him straight in to the pressure of an RWC on the back of one Saxons game. Given that composure under the cosh is one of the things England need to work on, I'm not sure how a talent that raw (even a big one) would help. Much the same applies to Daly.

Slater and Myler were long shots coming back from injury and could be back in if anyone else drops out (very possible in Myler's case).

by **LondonTiger** Fri 10 Jul 2015, 1:33 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Looking more likely that Slade is showing well in training.

They have only done fitness training so far, no specific rugby work. This makes it seem like the decisions were pretty much pre-determined.

by Geordie Fri 10 Jul 2015, 2:29 pm

Ah I didn't realise it was solely fitness work so far.

by yappysnap Sat 11 Jul 2015, 9:49 am

With his long range kicking I really thought Daly might stay in the squad.

I agree though, that the RWC probably isn't the best place to trial new players, especially in a very raw team

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 10:01 am

Yappy, to a large degree it seems like the last guys in were first discarded, which is in line with bomber's usual policy of loyalty to the shirt holder.

Yes Roku will be cited as the last in, and I am really surprised he has been kept as we have a plethora of wingers but:

a) He was in the team until injured (true only one game)
b) bomber probably felt guilty about destroying his holiday time for just 5 days of fitness beasting.

by cb Sat 11 Jul 2015, 10:20 am

I feel sorry for Slater. I do feel we need a lock with a bit of 'grunt'. Attwood unfortunately has not quite delivered on this, though not necessarily beyond hope (very good for Bath at the beginning of the season, but tailed off with England). The WC is still two months away, so Slater would have had time to improve his fitness. Should only have been cut if potentially worse than the other locks?

I would still like England to be able to field a pack with a bit more bulk should circumstances dictate (South Africa, wet weather, etc.). I am also a little concerned that Australia may be able to field a combative pack and nullify any advantage England once might have had.

Dropping Itoje, I can understand more as to make the final 31 would be very difficult either as lock or backrow.

by **LondonTiger** Sat 11 Jul 2015, 12:34 pm

As now seems apparent neither Slater nor Itoje stood much chance of making final squad. Both will be better for proper pre-seasons with their clubs.

by cb Sat 11 Jul 2015, 2:51 pm

LT, I have always liked Slater as a lock (even when playing against Bath), the season before last I thought he was one of the best in the league. Got on the NZ tour and then was injured.

by Gwlad Sat 11 Jul 2015, 8:22 pm

Has Cipriani been charged yet or is he still on bail?

by yappysnap Sun 12 Jul 2015, 6:37 pm

Who should start between Marler, Mako and Corbs?

Piece from the Guardian goes into some detail on the RWC refs in our pool and their view of props...

Jérôme Garcès, as he did in the Six Nations at the Millennium Stadium – when the home side took exception after an unexpected defeat to some of his law interpretations, especially at the scrum – will take charge of the match against Wales at Twickenham, while Romain Poite will control the game against Australia.

Poite was the referee when England last lost to Australia, at Twickenham in 2012, but was in charge of the series-deciding third Test between the Lions and Australia in Sydney when he had a zero tolerance policy to the Wallaby front row bending the rules at the scrum, reaching for his yellow card after 24 minutes.

Alex Corbisiero was the Lions’ loose-head prop that evening and it was his immediate dominance of the Australia tight-head Ben Alexander that Poite rewarded. “He penalises players who infringe,” says the Northampton prop, who had his own issues with referees in the second half of last season, a problem that helped keep him out of England’s match-day squads in the Six Nations. “You know where you stand with him and where he draws the line, something you have to use to your advantage.”

England have won their last two matches when Poite has been in charge, against Scotland and Wales in the Six Nations, and their record under Stuart Lancaster when Garcès has been officiating is five victories in six, the exception being the third Test defeat in New Zealand last year. Like Poite, he is hard on props who do not stay straight after the front rows engage and the pair have controlled three of England’s last six Tests.

“I imagine that referees talk to each other about players,” says Corbisiero, speaking at the launch of England’s new Canterbury jersey. “They know what they are looking for and we have to fit the mould and paint the right picture for them. It was frustrating when we got on the wrong side of referees [in the front row] at Northampton last season. I pride myself on getting my technique as spotless as possible and we are looking to nail down all the details in the England camp now.”

Corbisiero has not started a Test for England since the victory over New Zealand in December 2012. His only cap since then came against Argentina from the bench the following year as a succession of injuries ruled him out. When he finally had an extended run of matches for Northampton last season, he was unable to force his way ahead of Joe Marler or Mako Vunipola.

“That is a tough question,” he says when asked if he felt the fault referees kept finding with his scrummaging technique cost him caps. “You will have to ask it to the England coaches. I focus on what I can control. It has been a frustrating few years for me but I am now fit and healthy. I feel I can get back to the form I showed with the Lions. I am back on course after some setbacks and I am in a position to give myself a shot at what I want to achieve and hit the heights.”

If he's on form in the warm up games I'd start Corbs, as he's a bit more physical and gets around the pitch a bit more then Marler. Marler and Corbisiero have both had fairly humdrum seasons so while Marler is in possession of the shirt both have a good chance at it. Mako is quite far behind both.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 12 Jul 2015, 6:44 pm

Marler starts and Mako on the bench for me. Not seen anything from Corbs which suggests he has the impact he had before the rule change or the injury record which says he ll last the WC.

by Poorfour Sun 12 Jul 2015, 8:31 pm

I would imagine all three loose heads will get significant game time in the warm ups, and Rowntree will judge on that. Given the analysis above, Marler may have the edge as he has a growing reputation as a technically clean scrummager and has got on well with both Garces and Polite in the recent past.

by Gwlad Mon 13 Jul 2015, 6:14 am

Corbisiero v Francis again would be fun to watch.

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 9:01 am

yappysnap wrote:Who should start between Marler, Mako and Corbs?

Piece from the Guardian goes into some detail on the RWC refs in our pool and their view of props...

Jérôme Garcès, as he did in the Six Nations at the Millennium Stadium – when the home side took exception after an unexpected defeat to some of his law interpretations, especially at the scrum – will take charge of the match against Wales at Twickenham, while Romain Poite will control the game against Australia.

Poite was the referee when England last lost to Australia, at Twickenham in 2012, but was in charge of the series-deciding third Test between the Lions and Australia in Sydney when he had a zero tolerance policy to the Wallaby front row bending the rules at the scrum, reaching for his yellow card after 24 minutes.

Alex Corbisiero was the Lions’ loose-head prop that evening and it was his immediate dominance of the Australia tight-head Ben Alexander that Poite rewarded. “He penalises players who infringe,” says the Northampton prop, who had his own issues with referees in the second half of last season, a problem that helped keep him out of England’s match-day squads in the Six Nations. “You know where you stand with him and where he draws the line, something you have to use to your advantage.”

England have won their last two matches when Poite has been in charge, against Scotland and Wales in the Six Nations, and their record under Stuart Lancaster when Garcès has been officiating is five victories in six, the exception being the third Test defeat in New Zealand last year. Like Poite, he is hard on props who do not stay straight after the front rows engage and the pair have controlled three of England’s last six Tests.

“I imagine that referees talk to each other about players,” says Corbisiero, speaking at the launch of England’s new Canterbury jersey. “They know what they are looking for and we have to fit the mould and paint the right picture for them. It was frustrating when we got on the wrong side of referees [in the front row] at Northampton last season. I pride myself on getting my technique as spotless as possible and we are looking to nail down all the details in the England camp now.”

Corbisiero has not started a Test for England since the victory over New Zealand in December 2012. His only cap since then came against Argentina from the bench the following year as a succession of injuries ruled him out. When he finally had an extended run of matches for Northampton last season, he was unable to force his way ahead of Joe Marler or Mako Vunipola.

“That is a tough question,” he says when asked if he felt the fault referees kept finding with his scrummaging technique cost him caps. “You will have to ask it to the England coaches. I focus on what I can control. It has been a frustrating few years for me but I am now fit and healthy. I feel I can get back to the form I showed with the Lions. I am back on course after some setbacks and I am in a position to give myself a shot at what I want to achieve and hit the heights.”

If he's on form in the warm up games I'd start Corbs, as he's a bit more physical and gets around the pitch a bit more then Marler. Marler and Corbisiero have both had fairly humdrum seasons so while Marler is in possession of the shirt both have a good chance at it. Mako is quite far behind both.

Yappysnap Mako is not far behind Corbisiero and Marler.

He's ahead of Corbisiero and on club form he's ahead of Marler too. Mako had an excellent season.

Corbisiero is still dining off his Lions performance which was in summer 2013. He hasn't done much of note since. Corbisiero had a season to forget in terms of scrummaging. Lucky to make the squad. Doesn't help that he can barely string a run of games before being injured.

no 7 & 1/2 it's rare that we agree but we do on Corbisiero.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 Jul 2015, 9:42 am

Now you just need to call for Burgess' inclusion!

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 10:14 am

Mullan is a cracking LH as well and had a great season yet always goes under the radar....

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 10:30 am

Geordiefalcon he goes under the radar because he's the least experienced LH plus he's 28 now. He's actually the oldest LH.

Mako is 24, Marler 25, Corbisiero 26

Though when it came to it would you pick Mullan ahead of those three? Corbisiero vs Mullan is a tough one IMO.

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 10:37 am

At present Mullan is MILES ahead of Corbs...due to the fact Corbs is a permanent sick note and has shown Zero form and Mullan has been excellent all season. He is living on past reputations and I wouldnt take him to the WC.

Marler, Mako, Mullan. 3 quality LH's.

Also you question his experience...but yet in Itojes case you argue that's irrelevant its all about their performance on the pitch.

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:07 am

Geordiefalcon in terms of club performance the best EQ LH in my opinion has been Mako but that doesn't mean he should be guaranteed to be picked ahead of Marler. Either Marler or Mako starting I would be happy with. Marler had a good 6 nations.

Itoje is one of the brightest young talents in England. He's only a 20 year old, he's been in a premiership winning AP team - he's had to fight his way into the line up ahead of the likes of Brown and Wray.

He hasn't just been the default starter like Mullan has been for Wasps at LH.

With Itoje I feel he could offer something extra to England, I don't feel like Mullan would do the same at LH.

Even though I rate Itoje I wouldn't start him ahead of Lawes or Launchbury or Wood. I wanted to see what he could do for England in the warm ups off the bench though.

Oh and have you noticed I have barely ever mentioned Kruis despite him being a Saracens player. It's because despite me feeling that he's a good player it's Itoje who I feel is the most exciting forward prospect.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:13 am

Marler is quite comfortably our best LH on last seasons form, International and Club. Mako is promising, but I do not understand claims he was best EQ prop in AP last season. He was mainly solid, but at times a liability in the set piece, while his ball carrying was not as prominent as season before.

Corbs is living on past glories. I would have Mullan ahead of him in a shot.

I would start Marler with Mako on bench. however shoudl Marler be injured I would seriously consider starting Mullan - technically he is our best scrummaging prop and while not a powerful carrier like Mako he has the best workrate around the pitch of all four props. Mullan could have been a Lion if he had left Worcester in 2010 when a lot of clubs wanted him.

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:29 am

He hasn't just been the default starter like Mullan has been for Wasps at LH.

That's a rather harsh comment Beshocked. He was class at Worcester and now having moved (later than he should have) he has shown that was no fluke by proving a great signing for Wasps.

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:31 am

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon in terms of club performance the best EQ LH in my opinion has been Mako but that doesn't mean he should be guaranteed to be picked ahead of Marler. Either Marler or Mako starting I would be happy with. Marler had a good 6 nations.

Itoje is one of the brightest young talents in England. He's only a 20 year old, he's been in a premiership winning AP team - he's had to fight his way into the line up ahead of the likes of Brown and Wray.

He hasn't just been the default starter like Mullan has been for Wasps at LH.

With Itoje I feel he could offer something extra to England, I don't feel like Mullan would do the same at LH.

Even though I rate Itoje I wouldn't start him ahead of Lawes or Launchbury or Wood. I wanted to see what he could do for England in the warm ups off the bench though.

Oh and have you noticed I have barely ever mentioned Kruis despite him being a Saracens player. It's because despite me feeling that he's a good player it's Itoje who I feel is the most exciting forward prospect.

Maybe not this WC, but I really expect to see some changes to the back 5 of the scrum post WC. Especially the back row.

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:33 am

Disagree completely Londontiger.

When was Mako a liability? He was part of one of the strongest scrums in the AP this season - certainly at first choice anyway.

He perhaps struggled against Leicester at Allianz Park but who doesn't struggle against the Tigers frontrow.

In the early stages of the season when the Sarries scrum was being stuffed it was because Mako was injured. When Mako came back, he,George and Du Plessis turned Saracens scrum into one of the strongest.

Perhaps you'll hold it against Mako that he didn't play as much as Mullan. When Mako needed to be influential he was.

Geordiefalcon Wasps aren't exactly known as an impressive scrummaging side. Mullan walked into their frontrow.

by BamBam Mon 13 Jul 2015, 11:33 am

If we're not looking at loosehead props who are default starters for their clubs, Marler and Mako are in trouble

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 12:46 pm

beshocked wrote:Disagree completely Londontiger.

When was Mako a liability? He was part of one of the strongest scrums in the AP this season - certainly at first choice anyway.

He perhaps struggled against Leicester at Allianz Park but who doesn't struggle against the Tigers frontrow.

In the early stages of the season when the Sarries scrum was being stuffed it was because Mako was injured. When Mako came back, he,George and Du Plessis turned Saracens scrum into one of the strongest.

Perhaps you'll hold it against Mako that he didn't play as much as Mullan. When Mako needed to be influential he was.

Geordiefalcon Wasps aren't exactly known as an impressive scrummaging side. Mullan walked into their frontrow.

I honestly think he would walk into most front rows...

by lostinwales Mon 13 Jul 2015, 12:48 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
beshocked wrote:Disagree completely Londontiger.

When was Mako a liability? He was part of one of the strongest scrums in the AP this season - certainly at first choice anyway.

He perhaps struggled against Leicester at Allianz Park but who doesn't struggle against the Tigers frontrow.

In the early stages of the season when the Sarries scrum was being stuffed it was because Mako was injured. When Mako came back, he,George and Du Plessis turned Saracens scrum into one of the strongest.

Perhaps you'll hold it against Mako that he didn't play as much as Mullan. When Mako needed to be influential he was.

Geordiefalcon Wasps aren't exactly known as an impressive scrummaging side. Mullan walked into their frontrow.

I honestly think he would walk into most front rows...

Maori sidestep?

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 12:52 pm

Leicester? No
Saints? No
Sarries? No
Quins? No
Bath? No
Exeter? No
Gloucester? Perhaps
London Irish? Perhaps
Sale? Perhaps.
Newcastle? Perhaps
London Welsh? Perhaps

Probably 7th best LH in the AP.

by Geordie Mon 13 Jul 2015, 12:55 pm

We'll agree to disagree on that one then Beshocked.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 13 Jul 2015, 1:40 pm

If we exclude Ayerza, it is my belief that Mullan would walk be first choice at:

Bath, Leicester, Exeter, Sale, Gloucester, London Irish, Newcastle, London Welsh

He would probably have been first choice for Saints last season, rotated with Marler at Quins and played for Sarries in any match against a decent scrummaging team.

Though Beshocked disagrees in the second half of the season Sarries struggled in matches where their scrum was beaten. Some they still found a way to win (Racing) others they were unable to overcome that weakness. (Chiefs & Sainst at the end of regular season)

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 1:56 pm

Londontiger who won the AP final?

Ahead of James and Auterac at Bath? No I don't think so.

I would prefer Mulipola at Leicester to Mullan.

The scrum was equal against Exeter. It was Saracens' inability to stop close range Exeter tries and being wasteful in attack which cost the win. Not the scrum.

Saints got the upperhand on the Saracens scrum in the regular season when it was Saints replacements vs Saracens' replacements.

Everyone knows that Rhys Gill cannot scrummage when he comes on.

Racing Metro got the upperhand when Gill came on again.

Saracens' scrum has been pretty good this season in general when Mako,George and Du Plessis are on the pitch.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 Jul 2015, 2:22 pm

Mullan was very good this last season. I'd be siding more with LT on this one. What is it you don't like beshocked?

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 2:39 pm

no 7 & 1/2 I just don't see the hype surrounding Mullan. It's not as if the Wasps scrum was particularly impressive. Competent yes but no more so than other LHs.

Personally I thought Auterac made more of a positive impression than Mullan.

Also what he says about Marler's club form..... Marler was pretty mediocre at club level - meant to be captain but did a poor job too. Too often Quins looked like headless chickens in my opinion. Oh and their scrum wasn't impressive either.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 13 Jul 2015, 2:45 pm

They're not part of the strongest scrums but I don't think Mullan or Marler are taken to the cleaners very often, if ever, to be fair. Auterac looks a good prospect but I wouldn't say he's anywhere near their league at the moment. Them 2 and Vunipola are the 3 standouts at LH. Quite pleased with the choices of props in general at the moment. Some other good youngsters getting some game and should be making steps next season to.

by bluestonevedder Mon 13 Jul 2015, 2:48 pm

Auterac is a hell of a prospect.

It should be illegal for someone of his age to be in the shape he is.

I reckon Bath will come to rue the day they let him go to Saracens.

by SirBurger Mon 13 Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:

I reckon Bath will come to rue the day they let him go to Saracens.

Or, indeed, the other way round!

by Poorfour Mon 13 Jul 2015, 5:25 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I just don't see the hype surrounding Mullan. It's not as if the Wasps scrum was particularly impressive. Competent yes but no more so than other LHs.

Personally I thought Auterac made more of a positive impression than Mullan.

Also what he says about Marler's club form..... Marler was pretty mediocre at club level - meant to be captain but did a poor job too. Too often Quins looked like headless chickens in my opinion. Oh and their scrum wasn't impressive either.

Judging on club form conveniently ignores the fact that Quins spent most of the season with a makeshift lock pairing, an ND1 tight head, or both. It's ridiculous to compare that to Sarries' or Saints' packs and use it as a yardstick for loosehead form.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 13 Jul 2015, 5:43 pm

Marler played well in the matches I saw for Quins. Anyone capable of isolating an individuals performance should be able to see that.

Mullan was I feel the best EQP LH last season. Saying that is not hype, but merely an opinion based on what actually happened. It is also not just my opinion. Mullan was in the official AP team of the season, and the one voted for by the RPA (so all pro rugby players in England). He was also in the Rugby Writers combined team.

Hype is more like suggesting a player will be the best thing since sliced bread based on limited actual evidence.

Sad thing is I reckon he will be cut from the squad when they return from Denver as the coaches will play great store by Corbs past performances.

by beshocked Mon 13 Jul 2015, 6:00 pm

Poorfour oh the injury excuse. Quins do seem to use that excuse far too often - only one other team uses the injury excuse more. No prizes for guessing which team that is.

Londontiger perhaps it doesn't help that most of the times I have seen Marler he's not been impressive. The amount of times he has not performed well vs Saracens doesn't help.

As for Mullan fair enough if people rated his performances. Still AP is different to international rugby.

by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 13 Jul 2015, 8:01 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Marler is quite comfortably our best LH on last seasons form, International and Club. Mako is promising, but I do not understand claims he was best EQ prop in AP last season. He was mainly solid, but at times a liability in the set piece, while his ball carrying was not as prominent as season before.

Corbs is living on past glories. I would have Mullan ahead of him in a shot.

I would start Marler with Mako on bench. however shoudl Marler be injured I would seriously consider starting Mullan - technically he is our best scrummaging prop and while not a powerful carrier like Mako he has the best workrate around the pitch of all four props. Mullan could have been a Lion if he had left Worcester in 2010 when a lot of clubs wanted him.

I seem to remember Corbs doing quite well against Tigers in the semi final this year, Cole was a long way from dominating and in the second half started to struggle and that with a lightweight backrower in the second row behind Corbs.

by BamBam Mon 13 Jul 2015, 9:32 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I just don't see the hype surrounding Mullan. It's not as if the Wasps scrum was particularly impressive. Competent yes but no more so than other LHs.

Personally I thought Auterac made more of a positive impression than Mullan.

Also what he says about Marler's club form..... Marler was pretty mediocre at club level - meant to be captain but did a poor job too. Too often Quins looked like headless chickens in my opinion. Oh and their scrum wasn't impressive either.

Do you have any concept of what hype is? It seems every time 2 people praise a player (who doesn't play for Saracens) you declare that they are overhyped, a deity or that everyone thinks they are some sort of god

by BigTrevsbigmac Tue 14 Jul 2015, 6:46 am

BamBam wrote:
beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I just don't see the hype surrounding Mullan. It's not as if the Wasps scrum was particularly impressive. Competent yes but no more so than other LHs.

Personally I thought Auterac made more of a positive impression than Mullan.

Also what he says about Marler's club form..... Marler was pretty mediocre at club level - meant to be captain but did a poor job too. Too often Quins looked like headless chickens in my opinion. Oh and their scrum wasn't impressive either.

Do you have any concept of what hype is? It seems every time 2 people praise a player (who doesn't play for Saracens) you declare that they are overhyped, a deity or that everyone thinks they are some sort of god

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