Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[Sin é]

Just to be correct, Sin é, Isa Nacewa never actually got European player of the year... He was shortlisted in 2011 but lost out to Sean O'Brien. The year after, Rob Kearney got it.

Apologies. Maybe I'm thinking he got IRUPA Player of the Year then.

Anyway, my point is that a lot of people wondered how Leinster were going to cope with Nacewa and Kearney in the same team. T

The most talented player got shifted to the wing and he was very influential.

[Cloggie]

Yes, he got IRUPA player of the year. On a related note, I think Isa Nacewa represents exactly that what Leinster has been missing for a while now. Pure heart and full-blooded never-say-die passion. I'm delighted he's back for another bite at the cherry...

[GunsGerms]

Earls at 13 ? Really ?

Why not?

I actually think its great. Earls is a sublimely talented and attacking minded player. I think if any coach can bring the best out of him, Schmidt can. Excited to see how he plays.

You lost me at sublimely talented.

One of the Top Try scorers at 2011 World Cup (5 tries). Two more than ickle Shane and George North who only scored 3 each.

In the company of Adam Ashley-Cooper and Israel Dagg who also scored 5 tries each.

Ashton & Vincent Clerc scored 6.

Looks like I was right about Earls.

[Gwlad]

Almost pedestrian ease with which Wales got hammered by Ireland today.

If this is your 2nd string I am inclined to think the semi finals are in the bag. Only france stands in your way and i am so undecided now on what to expect from that game.
The only thing in Ireland's way seems to be a poor showing at RWCs in the past but the Schmidt factor should address that. Not sure that Ireland were even tested today and several Welsh players including Hook and Philipps may never play for Wales again; likewise cuthbert who is being edged out by the new breed.

[Notch]

We didn't play all that well though, Wales were significantly undercooked and look like they've spent the whole preseason in the gym and not on the pitch. In other words, this was a Wales team that was there for the taking and its slightly disappointing we didn't score 1 or 2 more and concede 1 or 2 less. They had no cohesion, did not gel at all but we know they will improve a lot over the coming weeks- I'm mostly happy with the performance and with the result, but by the end of the group stages we'll basically be in knockout rugby and this game won't matter at all.

The big concern for Wales is their scrummaging. Thats the thing that won't be fixed easily by a few more warm-ups. There's a lot of hopes resting on the shoulders of Tomas Francis- whether or not he can do the job could be the key to their tournament.

[Sin é]

To counteract that, no matter how poor the opposition was, those players hit the ground running. I think the handling was particularly good as usually in the Millenium the ball gets very wet (in fact everything gets very wet) and players skid all over the place.

I think they may have put in a new pitch which might have rectified that problem. Still the humidity in August in the Millenium must have been horific.

[Gwlad]

Actually, having just seen Argentina savage SA Ireland's easy path to the semi's just got a bit harder…this is gaping up to be a corking RWC. Right now i have Aus and Wales from Pool A, Samoa and SA (in that order) Pool B, NZ and Argies Pool C, France and Ireland Pool D.

Aus beat Samoa
Wales beat SA
NZ beat Ireland
Argies beat French

Aus v NZ final most likely

Aus win RWC 2015.

[Artful_Dodger]

We didn't play all that well though, Wales were significantly undercooked and look like they've spent the whole preseason in the gym and not on the pitch. In other words, this was a Wales team that was there for the taking and its slightly disappointing we didn't score 1 or 2 more and concede 1 or 2 less. They had no cohesion, did not gel at all but we know they will improve a lot over the coming weeks- I'm mostly happy with the performance and with the result, but by the end of the group stages we'll basically be in knockout rugby and this game won't matter at all.

The big concern for Wales is their scrummaging. Thats the thing that won't be fixed easily by a few more warm-ups. There's a lot of hopes resting on the shoulders of Tomas Francis- whether or not he can do the job could be the key to their tournament.

They are coming up against two very big scrums in the group as well in England and Australia, who have really come out of nowhere with possibly the best scrum in the southern hemisphere.

[Gwlad]

We didn't play all that well though, Wales were significantly undercooked and look like they've spent the whole preseason in the gym and not on the pitch. In other words, this was a Wales team that was there for the taking and its slightly disappointing we didn't score 1 or 2 more and concede 1 or 2 less. They had no cohesion, did not gel at all but we know they will improve a lot over the coming weeks- I'm mostly happy with the performance and with the result, but by the end of the group stages we'll basically be in knockout rugby and this game won't matter at all.

The big concern for Wales is their scrummaging. Thats the thing that won't be fixed easily by a few more warm-ups. There's a lot of hopes resting on the shoulders of Tomas Francis- whether or not he can do the job could be the key to their tournament.

No disrespect to Ireland but this was a team in nothing but name.

I am praying with everything tightly clenched that Gats treated this as a straightforward deselection game; a chance to run out some new caps, to test marginal veterans and to get some promising players out on the big arena. Let anyone serious make a claim for the remaining spots in a squad he already has clearly in mind. The casualty rate is subsequently massive, with not a single player perhaps bar Tipuric, showing that he belongs in the top cadre. I feel a bit sorry for Philipps and Hook who were hooked from the first whistle behind a pack of old ladies who were soundly beaten. Both of these guys are done in my view. As are Day, some props, Baker most likely, Hook/Philipps, T Morgan probably, Cuffbert. Possible survivors Walker, Amos, Anscombe, L Williams, Moriarty.

Scrum is least of our worries. Scott Wiliams was poor although he plays better with the A side, and we have nothing like strength in depth in our front row, at 8, 10, centre. Weak redundancy in the back 3. We looked tired not super fit.

Gatland has it all to prove right now.

[George Carlin]

Kettle's on:
https://www.606v2.com/t60050-ireland-v-scotland-15-august

Incidentally, just who exactly is "wrong on several counts"?

[SecretFly]

You George. It's always you.

[George Carlin]

You George.  It's always you.

[rodders]

Actually, having just seen Argentina savage SA Ireland's easy path to the semi's just got a bit harder…this is gaping up to be a corking RWC. Right now i have Aus and Wales from Pool A, Samoa and SA (in that order) Pool B, NZ and Argies Pool C, France and Ireland Pool D.

Aus beat Samoa
Wales beat SA
NZ beat Ireland
Argies beat French

Aus v  NZ final most likely

Aus win RWC 2015.

Most likely scenario for me:-

QFS

England v NZ
SA V France

Australia v Samoa
Ireland v Argentina

SFs

England v SA
Ireland v Australia

Final

SA V Ireland

Winner

Ireland (22 18 approx.)

[GunsGerms]

I'll be surprised if Fitz goes - he is too injury prone and the chances of him picking up some sort of an injury is fairly high. Not sure Trimble will make it (due to not having much of a kicking game and lack of versatility). Its Bowe or Trimble and I think Bowe will get it - he seems to be a Schmidt favourite.

I agree with you on Fitz. It would make zero sense to select him. Trimble will be very hard to leave out. He is versatile enough. He has played centre, fullback and wing and he is one of our best players.

[SecretFly]

If Trimble is fit and still doesn't go then I'll eat my hat (thankfully I don't wear one).

If Trimble is fit, he'll be there or I know nothing of the kind of player Schmidt likes. Bowe? For me he'd be dicey. Has a lot to prove if he gets a run out in these friendlies.

[No 7&1/2]

Dont know if its been said but O'Donnel out of the wc with a dislocatedip.

[rodders]

I'll be surprised if Fitz goes - he is too injury prone and the chances of him picking up some sort of an injury is fairly high. Not sure Trimble will make it (due to not having much of a kicking game and lack of versatility). Its Bowe or Trimble and I think Bowe will get it - he seems to be a Schmidt favourite.

I agree with you on Fitz. It would make zero sense to select him. Trimble will be very hard to leave out. He is versatile enough. He has played centre, fullback and wing and he is one of our best players.

I think it will be interesting to see if he tries with Bowe or Trimble on the left wing during the warm ups.

I don't think Schmidt will take 2 guys who only (in his mind) cover right wing, which means Trimble may miss out if he doesn't think they can play in the same side, even if they do at Ulster.

I would say he is still in a dilemma about the following players - Trimble, Zebo, Earls, Felix Jones and Fitzgerald. I think Cave may have put himself in the frame as cover for 12/13, which D'arcy would be in the frame for and maybe have Earls as cover for 13 and wing.

I think if Jones goes he may pick Fitzgerald ahead of Zebo but it will be close. If Zebo, Jones and Fitzgerald go then Trimble won't I think but I think if Fitzgerald goes Zebo doesn't.

I think Jackson may miss out and Madigan will cover 10 but will see if he starts Madigan at 10 during the next couple of games.

so potentially if there are 14 backs:-

Scrum half - Murray, Reddan, Boss
Fly half - Sexton, Madigan
Centre - Henshaw, Payne, Cave  
Wing - Bowe, Earls, Zebo, Trimble
Full back - Kearney, Jones

Or

Scrum half - Murray, Reddan, Boss
Fly half - Sexton, Madigan, Jackson
Centre - Henshaw, Payne, Earls  
Wing - Bowe, Zebo, Trimble
Full back - Kearney, Jones

Or

Scrum half - Murray, Reddan, Boss
Fly half - Sexton, Madigan, Jackson
Centre - Henshaw, Payne, Cave  
Wing - Bowe, Zebo, Trimble, Fitzgerald
Full back - Kearney

[asoreleftshoulder]

Dont know if its been said but O'Donnel out of the wc with a dislocatedip.

Sad to lose him,we've still got depth in the backrow but we can't afford many more injuries.At least it's a relatively short injury and not a season ender but in his performances to date ToD has shown he belongs at this level,he's unlucky to be behind 2 top quality 7's but I've no doubt he'll get a good few more caps.

[rodders]

Sad news - probably that assures Henry of his spot now, if he wasn't already, but with Ruddock out too we can't afford to lose anyone else in the backrow.

Murphy was outstanding on Saturday.

[Gwlad]

Actually, having just seen Argentina savage SA Ireland's easy path to the semi's just got a bit harder…this is gaping up to be a corking RWC. Right now i have Aus and Wales from Pool A, Samoa and SA (in that order) Pool B, NZ and Argies Pool C, France and Ireland Pool D.

Aus beat Samoa
Wales beat SA
NZ beat Ireland
Argies beat French

Aus v  NZ final most likely

Aus win RWC 2015.

Most likely scenario for me:-

QFS

England v NZ
SA V France

Australia v Samoa
Ireland v Argentina

SFs

England v SA
Ireland v Australia

Final

SA V Ireland

Winner

Ireland (22 18 approx.)

Eng wohnt beat Aus, and they certainly won't beat NZ! SA maybe but then everyone is beating them right now

[rodders]

Its norovirus season so don't count on it!

[Gwlad]

Its norovirus season so don't count on it!

Oh yeah thats true, you could see NZ definitely had NV against Aus, tissues everywhere.


Wonder if SA had food poising v Argentina too? Maybe it was a bad case of whoop-ass, or was it NZ that had bad tummies...

[lostinwales]

Dont know if its been said but O'Donnel out of the wc with a dislocatedip.

Just sounds awful. Lets hope the guy makes a full recovery sooner rather than later

[The Great Aukster]

You've got to feel for TOD after such a good game and he must have been in the frame.

A lot of players will be waiting anxiously to see how Bent goes in the remaining games. If he can genuinely make a fist of covering both sides, that would release an extra squad place. Ironically that place probably would have gone to TOD, but now that he's injured, Joe may be tempted to have another back - probably Jackson.
Earls has shown enough at 13 to be a viable option there, so if anything happens Kearney, Joe could easily move Payne back to 15 without harming the midfield too much. Earls game on Saturday could have cost Felix Jones his place in the squad.

Murray, Reddan, Boss
Sexton, Jackson,
Henshaw, Payne, Madigan, Earls
Zebo, Trimble, Bowe, Fitzgerald
Kearney

[Sin é]

After Sat, this is the way I think it will go
1. Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne (3 looseheads because there are so many ?s over Healy)
2. Best, Straus, Cronin
3. Ross, Moore (with Bent on standby)
4. Toner, Ryan
5. POC, Henderson
6. POM (backup Henderson, Murphy)
7. SOB, Henry
8. Heislip, Murphy
9. Murray, Reddan, Boss
10. Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw, Cave
13. Payne, Earls
14. Bowe OR Trimble
15. Kearney, Jones

If Jackson gets his kicking right, its possible that Madigan won't travel.
Rumour has it that Bowe hasn't been great in training and Dave Kearney has outshone everyone. Question mark over Trimble's foot injury as well.

[Gwlad]

Its a side that can go all the way if POC and Sexton can stay fit.

[profitius]

After Sat, this is the way I think it will go
1.  Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne  (3 looseheads because there are so many ?s over Healy)
2. Best, Straus, Cronin
3. Ross, Moore (with Bent on standby)
4. Toner, Ryan
5. POC, Henderson
6. POM   (backup Henderson, Murphy)
7. SOB, Henry
8. Heislip, Murphy
9. Murray, Reddan, Boss
10. Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw, Cave
13. Payne, Earls
14. Bowe OR Trimble  
15. Kearney, Jones

If Jackson gets his kicking right, its possible that Madigan won't travel.
Rumour has it that Bowe hasn't been great in training and Dave Kearney has outshone everyone. Question mark over Trimble's foot injury as well.

I think thats fairly accurate. I'd say Bent will go (instead of Kilcoyne) and I can't see Bowe or Trimble missing out. That would be massive news.

[mrsuperclear]

After Sat, this is the way I think it will go
1.  Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne  (3 looseheads because there are so many ?s over Healy)
2. Best, Straus, Cronin
3. Ross, Moore (with Bent on standby)
4. Toner, Ryan
5. POC, Henderson
6. POM   (backup Henderson, Murphy)
7. SOB, Henry
8. Heislip, Murphy
9. Murray, Reddan, Boss
10. Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw, Cave
13. Payne, Earls
14. Bowe OR Trimble  
15. Kearney, Jones

If Jackson gets his kicking right, its possible that Madigan won't travel.
Rumour has it that Bowe hasn't been great in training and Dave Kearney has outshone everyone. Question mark over Trimble's foot injury as well.

I think thats fairly accurate. I'd say Bent will go (instead of Kilcoyne) and I can't see Bowe or Trimble missing out. That would be massive news.

Dave Kearney outshining everyone? :O

Massive news on a winger missing will happen anyway, at least one amazing player out of Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Zebo and Fitzgerald is missing out. They're all obviously not going to go unless he only takes two FH's and/or leaves out Jones which I can't see happening. Fitz missing two world cups would be harsh though. Lion test starter and 30 odd caps but no world cup would be an interesting stat. He'll have to have a stormer when he gets his chance after Zebo/Earls on Sat anyway, wouldn't want to be Joe and have to make the decision though.

[Notch]

I can't see Cave and Earls both traveling; it will be one or other.

Here's my best guess, based on Schmidt saying they were looking at a 17/14 split and the hints dropped that Bent is seen as covering both sides of the scrum.

Jack McGrath (1)
Cian Healy OR Dave Kilcoyne (1)
Mike Ross (3)
Martin Moore (3)
Michael Bent (1, 3)
Rory Best (2)
Sean Cronin (2)
Richardt Strauss (2)
Paul O'Connell (5)
Donnacha Ryan (4, 5)
Devin Toner (4, 5)
Iain Henderson (4, 5, 6)
Peter O'Mahony (6, 7)
Sean O'Brien (6, 7, 8)
Jordi Murphy (6, 7, 8)
Chris Henry (7)
Jamie Heaslip (8)

Eoin Reddan (9)
Conor Murray (9)
Isaac Boss (9)
Jonny Sexton (10)
Paddy Jackson (10)
Ian Madigan (10, 12)
Robbie Henshaw (12, 13)
Jared Payne (13, 15)
Keith Earls (11, 13, 14)
Tommy Bowe (11, 13, 14)
Andrew Trimble (11, 14)
Simon Zebo (11, 15)
Rob Kearney (15)
Felix Jones (11, 14, 15)

[The Great Aukster]

After Sat, this is the way I think it will go
1.  Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne  (3 looseheads because there are so many ?s over Healy)
2. Best, Straus, Cronin
3. Ross, Moore (with Bent on standby)
4. Toner, Ryan
5. POC, Henderson
6. POM   (backup Henderson, Murphy)
7. SOB, Henry
8. Heislip, Murphy
9. Murray, Reddan, Boss
10. Sexton, Jackson, Madigan
11. Zebo
12. Henshaw, Cave
13. Payne, Earls
14. Bowe OR Trimble  
15. Kearney, Jones

If Jackson gets his kicking right, its possible that Madigan won't travel.
Rumour has it that Bowe hasn't been great in training and Dave Kearney has outshone everyone. Question mark over Trimble's foot injury as well.

I think thats fairly accurate. I'd say Bent will go (instead of Kilcoyne) and I can't see Bowe or Trimble missing out. That would be massive news.

Agree Profitius.

Bent has to go if Schmidt only takes five props, as he is the only player who can potentially cover both sides. Otherwise either Moore or Ross would have to be replaced if either picked up a minor knock.

Despite Joe's apparent fondness for Jones, Felix has put zero pressure on a misfiring Kearney for a starting spot, so he doesn't stand a chance of starting any of the big games and any one of Payne, Henshaw, Zebo or Madigan could easily slot in at 15 to rest Rob in a lesser one. Of course should Rob have to be pulled from the tournament Jones would be called up.

Can't see Cave being selected as he's not going to be a starter, only covers Centre and has limited Test experience.

[wolfball]

I can't see Cave and Earls both traveling; it will be one or other.

Here's my best guess, based on Schmidt saying they were looking at a 17/14 split and the hints dropped that Bent is seen as covering both sides of the scrum.

Jack McGrath (1)
Cian Healy OR Dave Kilcoyne (1)
Mike Ross (3)
Martin Moore (3)
Michael Bent (1, 3)
Rory Best (2)
Sean Cronin (2)
Richardt Strauss (2)
Paul O'Connell (5)
Donnacha Ryan (4, 5)
Devin Toner (4, 5)
Iain Henderson (4, 5, 6)
Peter O'Mahony (6, 7)
Sean O'Brien (6, 7, 8)
Jordi Murphy (6, 7, 8)
Chris Henry (7)
Jamie Heaslip (8)

Eoin Reddan (9)
Conor Murray (9)
Isaac Boss (9)
Jonny Sexton (10)
Paddy Jackson (10)
Ian Madigan (10, 12)
Robbie Henshaw (12, 13)
Jared Payne (13, 15)
Keith Earls (11, 13, 14)
Tommy Bowe (11, 13, 14)
Andrew Trimble (11, 14)
Simon Zebo (11, 15)
Rob Kearney (15)
Felix Jones (11, 14, 15)

Spot on - I think Kilcoyne over Bent is wishful thinking and Cave over Bowe or Trimble also very unlikely. 12 is a pretty lightly covered place for us though, We need Henshaw to play nearly every game, and have no injuries...

[Notch]

I think Madigan will get time there in the warm-ups and one group game. But just a guess.

[Cloggie]

I can't see Cave and Earls both traveling; it will be one or other.

Here's my best guess, based on Schmidt saying they were looking at a 17/14 split and the hints dropped that Bent is seen as covering both sides of the scrum.

Jack McGrath (1)
Cian Healy OR Dave Kilcoyne (1)
Mike Ross (3)
Martin Moore (3)
Michael Bent (1, 3)
Rory Best (2)
Sean Cronin (2)
Richardt Strauss (2)
Paul O'Connell (5)
Donnacha Ryan (4, 5)
Devin Toner (4, 5)
Iain Henderson (4, 5, 6)
Peter O'Mahony (6, 7)
Sean O'Brien (6, 7, 8)
Jordi Murphy (6, 7, 8)
Chris Henry (7)
Jamie Heaslip (8)

Eoin Reddan (9)
Conor Murray (9)
Isaac Boss (9)
Jonny Sexton (10)
Paddy Jackson (10)
Ian Madigan (10, 12)
Robbie Henshaw (12, 13)
Jared Payne (13, 15)
Keith Earls (11, 13, 14)
Tommy Bowe (11, 13, 14)
Andrew Trimble (11, 14)
Simon Zebo (11, 15)
Rob Kearney (15)
Felix Jones (11, 14, 15)

I think this is going to be pretty much exactly how the squad is going to look, with one small caveat: I think Joe will give Luke Fitzgerald the chance to play himself into the squad by starting him against Scotland (and possibly also against Wales). If he delivers enough, I believe he could still take Felix Jones' place.

[Submachine]

Healy - McGrath
Bent
Best- Cronin - Strauss
Ross - Moore
POC - Ryan
Toner - Henderson
POM - Murphy
SOB - Henry
Heaslip
Murray - Reddan - Marmion
Sexton - Jackson
Zebo -
Henshaw - Madigan
Payne - Earls
Bowe - Trimble
Kearney - Jones

This is my predicted squad. Bent has to be there if it is only 5 props. If 6 then Bent is replaced by Kilcoyne and Furlong/White replaces Murphy. Jones is nailed on as the only other player in the country who plays regularly at full back for his club. He is a leader and a damn good player. as good as I thought Cave was on Saturday I just don't see where he fits in. Madigan covers 12 off the bench and I think he's in a straight shoot out with Earls who offers a bit more versatility. I think Cave could have found his best position at 12 however. He never had the real gas needed for a top 13 but he looked really good on Saturday.
I think Jackson has a bit more work to do to nail down a place in the squad. Looked really off the pace and it wouldn't have been any harm to have Keatley in the original squad t provide a bit more competition.

[Notch]

If any player is vulnerable, I think it is Simon Zebo not Felix Jones. I've never got the impression Schmidt is that keen on Zebo and he could be a very surprising candidate for the chop when several players are released back to their provinces from this week.

If he is, the Irish Rugby-themed sections of the internet will be very funny to read for a week or two!

[Cloggie]

[quote="Notch"]If any player is vulnerable, I think it is Simon Zebo not Felix Jones.

Good point. I agree that it may indeed be Zebo instead of Jones who'd be forced out of the squad if, say, Luke Fitzgerald plays a stormer against Scotland and/or Wales.

The way i see it, Felix Jones is a superb defender but doesn't really offer anything exceptional going forward. Simon Zebo is the other way around: a genuinely outstanding and exciting attacker, but 'only' adequate defensively. It might come down, I suppose, to whichever skillset Joe values most for this specific squad place.

[GunsGerms]

If any player is vulnerable, I think it is Simon Zebo not Felix Jones. I've never got the impression Schmidt is that keen on Zebo and he could be a very surprising candidate for the chop when several players are released back to their provinces from this week.

If he is, the Irish Rugby-themed sections of the internet will be very funny to read for a week or two!

That would be hilarious. The whole of Munster would boycott the world cup. It would be even funnier if Dave Kearney was picked instead. Could happen.

[Sin é]

If any player is vulnerable, I think it is Simon Zebo not Felix Jones. I've never got the impression Schmidt is that keen on Zebo and he could be a very surprising candidate for the chop when several players are released back to their provinces from this week.

If he is, the Irish Rugby-themed sections of the internet will be very funny to read for a week or two!

So you think the only reason Zebo would be cut this week is because Schmidt doesn't like him?

I can't see any of the backs being cut that featured last Saturday (bearing in mind that there are question marks over the fitness of Luke Fitz, Andrew Trimble and Tommy Bowe apparently not going well in training). McFadden should be cut if he is going to cut anyone.

[Notch]

No, I said he might be cut because Schmidt may not be convinced about him; some reasons for that he doesn't do enough work in defence and around the rucks, doesn't do enough off the ball- and he hasn't actually rated him all that highly in the past. That is speculation.

Let me reiterate; I would have him in the squad. There is no point in going into defensive mode and trying to convince me he should be on the plane because that is already what I think. I already see his strengths as outweighing the weaknesses.

But Schmidt might not. And I think that the reaction would be hilarious if he doesn't agree with me.

[GunsGerms]

No, I said he might be cut because Schmidt may not be convinced about him; some reasons for that he doesn't do enough work in defence and around the rucks, doesn't do enough off the ball- and he hasn't actually rated him all that highly in the past. That is speculation.

Let me reiterate; I would have him in the squad. There is no point in going into defensive mode and trying to convince me he should be on the plane because that is already what I think. I already see his strengths as outweighing the weaknesses.

But Schmidt might not. And I think that the reaction would be hilarious if he doesn't agree with me.

In fairness that "speculation" was just Siné and his cronies making things up most of the time. There has never been any real evidence that Schmidt doesnt like Zebo.

[Submachine]

I think the subtitle of this thread is quite apt in your analysis here.

In terms of work rate in defence I think Zebo does plenty. I still have a concern about his tackling technique (allowing Tupuric to go on the outside on Saturday and then tackling high) he brings his man down more often than not but they are not offensive tackles a la Trimble and he can get stood up when a player is running directly at him.
Ruck work is top notch these days.
Work off the ball is where I would disagree most. I think Zebo of all our wingers involves himself more in games rather than just waiting for the ball to come out to him. He runs good inside lines but less noticeable is the work he does when coming in at first receiver. He did this numerous times during the 6 nations and again very effectively on Saturday when setting up Jones try.
Didn't Zebo start the previous 6 tests prior to being dropped for Fitzgerald? I don't see that as being rated lowly by the coach.

[The Great Aukster]

I think the subtitle of this thread is quite apt in your analysis here.

In terms of work rate in defence I think Zebo does plenty. I still have a concern about his tackling technique (allowing Tupuric to go on the outside on Saturday and then tackling high) he brings his man down more often than not but they are not offensive tackles a la Trimble and he can get stood up when a player is running directly at him.
Ruck work is top notch these days.
Work off the ball is where I would disagree most. I think Zebo of all our wingers involves himself more in games rather than just waiting for the ball to come out to him. He runs good inside lines but less noticeable is the work he does when coming in at first receiver. He did this numerous times during the 6 nations and again very effectively on Saturday when setting up Jones try.
Didn't Zebo start the previous 6 tests prior to being dropped for Fitzgerald? I don't see that as being rated lowly by the coach.

I agree with most of that SM. It looks to me as though Zebo has knuckled down to Joe's programme and he does far more now than a couple of years ago and possibly the 6N. The pass to Jones was a notable departure from previous outings. In the past he would have backed himself to run at the defence and then recycle, but that was the first time I recall him making such an ambitious pass when the move was on. BTW is he right-handed (if not it was even better)?

I have been critical of Jackson's kicking but to be fair he adds a lot with his quick accurate passing. His pass gave Zebo a fraction of a second longer to nail the scoring pass, and that's something Joe has obviously got them working on.

[wolfball]

I think the subtitle of this thread is quite apt in your analysis here.

In terms of work rate in defence I think Zebo does plenty. I still have a concern about his tackling technique (allowing Tupuric to go on the outside on Saturday and then tackling high) he brings his man down more often than not but they are not offensive tackles a la Trimble and he can get stood up when a player is running directly at him.
Ruck work is top notch these days.
Work off the ball is where I would disagree most. I think Zebo of all our wingers involves himself more in games rather than just waiting for the ball to come out to him. He runs good inside lines but less noticeable is the work he does when coming in at first receiver. He did this numerous times during the 6 nations and again very effectively on Saturday when setting up Jones try.
Didn't Zebo start the previous 6 tests prior to being dropped for Fitzgerald? I don't see that as being rated lowly by the coach.

I agree with most of that SM. It looks to me as though Zebo has knuckled down to Joe's programme and he does far more now than a couple of years ago and possibly the 6N. The pass to Jones was a notable departure from previous outings. In the past he would have backed himself to run at the defence and then recycle, but that was the first time I recall him making such an ambitious pass when the move was on. BTW is he right-handed (if not it was even better)?

I have been critical of Jackson's kicking but to be fair he adds a lot with his quick accurate passing. His pass gave Zebo a fraction of a second longer to nail the scoring pass, and that's something Joe has obviously got them working on.

Zebo's pass was the best bit of skill we showed in that match. Very impressive.

[GunsGerms]

The best bit of skill was Trimbles tackle how he managed to get the guy to pop the ball up to Earls and samash him at the same time.

[Submachine]

Herring and Reid released from the extended squad. To be expected I would have thought. 11 more facing the chop. Serious motivation for anyone in the squad for Saturday.

[FecklessRogue]

All the wingers must be feeling vulnerable because some good players aren't going to make it. It's hard for us to know how they're going in training. I have to say in the last 6 Nations I thought Bowe was very poor. And I don't think Schmidt will pick someone on past reputation or because he's widely loved by the fans. Trimble has delivered for Schmidt on the right wing far more than Bowe has.

[GunsGerms]

Bowe, very poor? I dont think he was very poor, maybe below his normal high standards plus in November he was one of our best players as he often is.

[Notch]

Zebo will live to fight another day... but for how long?

[FecklessRogue]

I'm like Notch, I want Zebo in, but I get the feeling Schmidt doesn't rate him has highly as a lot of his fans, and he may not make it. I hope he does though. Even if he doesn't start we have few players who could make a better impact off the bench. He scored and created a try after coming on the other day. Would McFadden, D Kearney or Fitzgerald do that in the same situation?

[Notch]

Well for the try he scored, definitely. Any international rugby player should be able to take that pass and score every time never mind a winger. For the try he created, his long pass was great and shows part of what he offers ahead of those players. But those guys do the basics well with the short pass or hit it up and it goes another phase or two and we score. So I don't think he had that big an impact although I agree he played well.

What puts him above and beyond those players for me is his ability to cut a line from deep and actually finish it himself. I actually prefer him at fullback than wing for this reason. Also his trusty left peg and his footwork.

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