Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[mrsuperclear]

Bowe, very poor? I dont think he was very poor, maybe below his normal high standards plus in November he was one of our best players as he often is.

I think very poor is probably an exaggeration too, but let's put it this way: Who was better for Ireland on the right wing, Trimble in 2014 or Bowe in 2015. If the answer is Trimble, then is Bowe as versatile and in the same form as say Zebo and Fitzgerald. It'll be an interesting decision that ends up being made and don't think any wingers would be 100% certain they're in right now.

[mikey_dragon]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

[FecklessRogue]

Fitzgerald has been hampered by injuries for years, so hasn't played much. He also hasn't scored many international tries so anyone outside Ireland or even Leinster might be surprised to hear him mentioned. But he's got good acceleration a good step and is good defensively. I like him. He was selected for the Lions at a very young age before the injuries struck. He was good against Scotland in the last 6 Nations match.

I've wanted Zebo at fullback for ages, especially since Kearney has been rubbish for quite a while now. But it's not gonna happen at this stage.

[Sin é]

I'm like Notch, I want Zebo in, but I get the feeling Schmidt doesn't rate him has highly as a lot of his fans, and he may not make it. I hope he does though. Even if he doesn't start we have few players who could make a better impact off the bench. He scored and created a try after coming on the other day. Would McFadden, D Kearney or Fitzgerald do that in the same situation?

Surprisingly enough, with Ireland, Zebo is Schmidt's most capped winger (9+1). And Ireland has only lost one game with Zebo playing (v Wales in 6Ns). I think people maybe have read far too much into him being dropped for the Scotland game. Schmidt said at the time that he was suffering a bit from fatigue having played a lot up to that stage of the year (the Welsh game in the 6Ns would have been his 21st game of the season). Added to that Schmidt had Luke Fitzgerald chomping at the bit to get a start - and I suppose it would have been very difficult not give Luke a chance after all his injury troubles over the years. Schmidt could also have been testing Simon to see how he would react (and from all accounts he took it very well). It was an awful kick in the teeth for him considering he was the only one dropped out of the match day squad. BOD would empathise with him I'm sure!

He had only to fall over the line for his try and I'm sure even Fitz & Kearney would have managed that (McFadden has a good try scoring record).

His pass though was excellent as he would have been passing to his weak side (being left sided). The Welsh were not expecting him pass as he did.

Guns - it was Gerry Thornley who was saying on Off the Ball that a lot of his press colleagues think he is going to be cut. That could be wishful thinking on their parts.

[SecretFly]

I think people maybe have read far too much into him being dropped for the Scotland game.

>Schmidt said at the time that he was suffering a bit from fatigue having played a lot up to that stage of the year (the Welsh game in the 6Ns would have been his 21st game of the season).

>Added to that Schmidt had Luke Fitzgerald chomping at the bit to get a start - and I suppose it would have been very difficult not give Luke a chance after all his injury troubles over the years.

>Schmidt could also have been testing Simon to see how he would react (and from all accounts he took it very well).

>It was an awful kick in the teeth for him considering he was the only one dropped out of the match day squad. BOD would empathise with him I'm sure!

You could be right, Sin.  You might be on to something there.  People have read far too much into it......

[Sin é]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

[Guest]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

[Sin é]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out. We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

[Guest]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out.  We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

Already read it, Sin é. A decent article which highlights Earls strengths on the day while brushing over his errors. It was his first game out so it would be wrong to be too harsh. He did have a good game though, as did Cave. Cave heaped praise on Earls for his performance on the day.
You think all the players have the same fitness levels?  I don't agree, and I would think that's why Ireland had determined that Trimble was only going to get 40 minutes game time before the game started.

P.s what does all the players having the same fitness level have to do with Trimble not being fully match fit anyway? I doubt many of them were.

[FecklessRogue]

What Earls offers is real lightning pace, which is sadly lacking in the rest of our backline. His versatility should get him into the squad. But I'd actually start him on the left wing. The work rate and rucking and stuff that Schmidt demands can be coached into any of our players. But the lethal finishing ability of Earls cannot be. He's our best finisher.

We're ranked 2nd in the world apparently. But where would our back 5 rank in the world over the last two years in terms of opening up a defence? 7th? 8th?

The fact that our kicking game is working so well is great. But it also means opposition teams have to set themselves up to counter it. Wouldn't it be great to take France by surprise and run the ball out of our 22 when there's an opportunity and knock the stuffing out of them with a length of the pitch try. Earls beating one man on the outside could make all the difference in such a move.

[George Carlin]

When are your selectors going to leave the pub and actually publish the team for the weekend?

[Guest]

Tomorrow 2pm I think.

[FecklessRogue]

When are your selectors going to leave the pub and actually publish the team for the weekend?

Word from the camp is they're gonna stay for one more pint. But they said that 12 pints ago. I'm not to concerned.

[Guest]

What Earls offers is real lightning pace, which is sadly lacking in the rest of our backline. His versatility should get him into the squad. But I'd actually start him on the left wing. The work rate and rucking and stuff that Schmidt demands can be coached into any of our players. But the lethal finishing ability of Earls cannot be. He's our best finisher.

We're ranked 2nd in the world apparently. But where would our back 5 rank in the world over the last two years in terms of opening up a defence? 7th? 8th?

The fact that our kicking game is working so well is great. But it also means opposition teams have to set themselves up to counter it. Wouldn't it be great to take France by surprise and run the ball out of our 22 when there's an opportunity and knock the stuffing out of them with a length of the pitch try. Earls beating one man on the outside could make all the difference in such a move.

I would be very surprised if Earls doesn't make it. He is a great finisher, and if his performance against the Welsh is a fair indicator of his ability at centre then it would be difficult to argue against his inclusion. When it comes to opening up defences, I think Schmidts plan so far hasn't really allowed for that. It has been limited but, as the results show, rightly so, thus far. Like you I'm hoping that changes leading into the World Cup, and hopefully we will be ready to show a bit more flair against the big sides. If we are ready.

[Rory_Gallagher]

What Earls offers is real lightning pace, which is sadly lacking in the rest of our backline. His versatility should get him into the squad. But I'd actually start him on the left wing. The work rate and rucking and stuff that Schmidt demands can be coached into any of our players. But the lethal finishing ability of Earls cannot be. He's our best finisher.

We're ranked 2nd in the world apparently. But where would our back 5 rank in the world over the last two years in terms of opening up a defence? 7th? 8th?

The fact that our kicking game is working so well is great. But it also means opposition teams have to set themselves up to counter it. Wouldn't it be great to take France by surprise and run the ball out of our 22 when there's an opportunity and knock the stuffing out of them with a length of the pitch try. Earls beating one man on the outside could make all the difference in such a move.

We do have a number of talented and creative players coming through in the backs, although the RWC has come too soon to test many of these options. Henshaw is one of them, although this is largely nullified in my opinion when he is playing at 12, as he has little of the space he gets from either 13 or fullback. Zebo is indeed another, however he is also given little room to manoeuvre with the current game plan.

I am excited to see the aftermath of the World Cup when the likes of McCloskey gets game time at 12 alongside Henshaw.

[GunsGerms]

I would be very surprised if Earls doesn't make it. He is a great finisher, and if his performance against the Welsh is a fair indicator of his ability at centre then it would be difficult to argue against his inclusion. When it comes to opening up defences, I think Schmidts plan so far hasn't really allowed for that. It has been limited but, as the results show, rightly so, thus far. Like you I'm hoping that changes leading into the World Cup, and hopefully we will be ready to show a bit more flair against the big sides. If we are ready.

I rate Earls highly. We already know how good a winger he is particularly at finishing tries but I'm probably one of the few people who still think he could make a really great 13. I would like to see him picked in the squad but if he doesn't it will probably be because he has only played one international in two years.

[George Carlin]

When are your selectors going to leave the pub and actually publish the team for the weekend?

Word from the camp is they're gonna stay for one more pint. But they said that 12 pints ago. I'm not too concerned.

[Guest]

I would be very surprised if Earls doesn't make it. He is a great finisher, and if his performance against the Welsh is a fair indicator of his ability at centre then it would be difficult to argue against his inclusion. When it comes to opening up defences, I think Schmidts plan so far hasn't really allowed for that. It has been limited but, as the results show, rightly so, thus far. Like you I'm hoping that changes leading into the World Cup, and hopefully we will be ready to show a bit more flair against the big sides. If we are ready.

I rate Earls highly. We already know how good a winger he is particularly at finishing tries but I'm probably one of the few people who still think he could make a really great 13. I would like to see him picked in the squad but if he doesn't it will probably be because he has only played one international in two years.

I do think there are question marks over his decision making at centre, but then I wasn't convinced Payne would make it at 13 for Ireland either, even though Payne is much more experienced at 13 than Earls. Earls had a good outing v Wales, but Wales were incredibly weak and I just don't know if that game is much of an indicator of Earls ability at centre. Time will tell.
I still think Earls will make the squad though. He is a versatile player, a great wing option who has shown, even if a poor opposition, that he can play at 13.

[Notch]

When are your selectors going to leave the pub and actually publish the team for the weekend?

Tomorrow, 1.45pm

[Sin é]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out.  We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

Already read it, Sin é. A decent article which highlights Earls strengths on the day while brushing over his errors.

It covered his errors. What more is there to say about 4 missed tackles. Cave missed 2 and no one even noticed! Some serious searching looking for faults in Earls' game.

It was his first game out so it would be wrong to be too harsh. He did have a good game though, as did Cave. Cave heaped praise on Earls for his performance on the day.
You think all the players have the same fitness levels?  I don't agree, and I would think that's why Ireland had determined that Trimble was only going to get 40 minutes game time before the game started.

P.s what does all the players having the same fitness level have to do with Trimble not being fully match fit anyway? I doubt many of them were.

You keep damning him with faint praise though as if all he is, is a good finisher. He has a great step, draws in defendenders (giving space for others), has great awareness (i.e., his try - he was in the right place at the right time to get the ball and actually score). He burned the Welsh players.

No wonder Cave heaped praise on him, Cave has never looked as comfortable with anyone else as he did with Earls and had his best outing in green last Saturday v Wales.

As for Trimble's fitness. A winger should be able to last 40 minutes without showing signs of fatigue. If he was a prop who had just had 15+ scrums, you might think he would be tiring a bit at that stage of the game. Was Trimble only getting it because of a fitness issue or in an effort to give Zebo 40 mins as well? (I think the plan was for Felix to move to the left wing and Zebo to play fullback for last 40).

As for general fitness - I thought all the Irish players looked very fit and sharp on Saturday. You would never think it was their first game of the season.

[Sin é]

I would be very surprised if Earls doesn't make it. He is a great finisher, and if his performance against the Welsh is a fair indicator of his ability at centre then it would be difficult to argue against his inclusion. When it comes to opening up defences, I think Schmidts plan so far hasn't really allowed for that. It has been limited but, as the results show, rightly so, thus far. Like you I'm hoping that changes leading into the World Cup, and hopefully we will be ready to show a bit more flair against the big sides. If we are ready.

I rate Earls highly. We already know how good a winger he is particularly at finishing tries but I'm probably one of the few people who still think he could make a really great 13. I would like to see him picked in the squad but if he doesn't it will probably be because he has only played one international in two years.

I do think there are question marks over his decision making at centre, but then I wasn't convinced Payne would make it at 13 for Ireland either, even though Payne is much more experienced at 13 than Earls. Earls had a good outing v Wales, but Wales were incredibly weak and I just don't know if that game is much of an indicator of Earls ability at centre. Time will tell.
I still think Earls will make the squad though. He is a versatile player, a great wing option who has shown, even if a poor opposition, that he can play at 13.

Some examples of his poor decision making please?

Payne is not more experienced at 13 than Earls. (Earls was selected for the Lions as a 13 in 2009). Payne has been just about 'solid' as a 13 for Ireland. Do you know, in the SA game in November, he didn't pass the ball once? How is any winger going to score any tries if their centre doesn't pass the occasional ball out to them.

The Welsh centre partnership was probably the strongest element of the Welsh team.

[rodders]

Well he butchered that try by throwing a poor pass to Reddan and then he gave the pass too early to Trimble.

Cave made him look better than he was to be honest. Terrible defensively.

[Guest]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out.  We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

Already read it, Sin é. A decent article which highlights Earls strengths on the day while brushing over his errors.

It covered his errors. What more is there to say about 4 missed tackles. Cave missed 2 and no one even noticed! Some serious searching looking for faults in Earls' game.

It was his first game out so it would be wrong to be too harsh. He did have a good game though, as did Cave. Cave heaped praise on Earls for his performance on the day.
You think all the players have the same fitness levels?  I don't agree, and I would think that's why Ireland had determined that Trimble was only going to get 40 minutes game time before the game started.

P.s what does all the players having the same fitness level have to do with Trimble not being fully match fit anyway? I doubt many of them were.

You keep damning him with faint praise though as if all he is, is a good finisher. He has a great step, draws in defendenders (giving space for others), has great awareness (i.e., his try - he was  in the right place at the right time to get the ball and actually score). He burned the Welsh players.

No wonder Cave heaped praise on him, Cave has never looked as comfortable with anyone else as he did with Earls and had his best outing in green last Saturday v Wales.

As for Trimble's fitness. A winger should be able to last 40 minutes without showing signs of fatigue. If he was a prop who had just had 15+ scrums, you might think he would be tiring a bit at that stage of the game.  Was Trimble only getting it because of a fitness issue or in an effort to give Zebo 40 mins as well? (I think the plan was for Felix to move to the left wing and Zebo to play fullback for last 40).

As for general fitness - I thought all the Irish players looked very fit and sharp on Saturday. You would never think it was their first game of the season.

Yes, it does covers his errors. I did make use of the idiom 'brush over'. Well Earls did miss his tackles, and knock the ball on. Cave missed two? I read he didn't miss any, but no matter. This isn't about Cave or whataboutery. It is about Earls.

Damning with faith praise, Very dramatic, Sin é Indeed, he's a great finisher, and one of the reasons he's a great finisher is that he has a great step. He has great awareness? Not convinced. He has great awareness when it comes to sniffing out opportunities, but I have yet to be convinced his awareness extends to those around him.

Cave did look comfortable partnering with Earls, and he does attribute that to Earls, but I would say they complimented each other in a game that provided little challenge to either. They both played well, but they were hardly challenged. That's not faint praise. That's fact based on one game.

Oh, you're on about Trimble again. I have noticed that when others question Munster players you tend to drag the players of other Provinces into the fray. You also seem to have the inside ear on the fitness levels of players. I will admit defeat to your superior knowledge....

Yes, the player generally looked fit but, again, what has that to do with Trimble not being match fit? You're coming up with arguments based on little other than that which you want to believe. Not facts.

[Sin é]

Well he butchered that try by throwing a poor pass to Reddan and then he gave the pass too early to Trimble.

Cave made him look better than he was to be honest. Terrible defensively.

1. The pass to Reddan wasn't that bad.
2. Which pass was too early for Trimble?

[Notch]

Payne is not more experienced at 13 than Earls. (Earls was selected for the Lions as a 13 in 2009). Payne has been just about 'solid' as a 13 for Ireland. Do you know, in the SA game in November, he didn't pass the ball once?  How is any winger going to score any tries if their centre doesn't pass the occasional ball out to them.

Obviously with a Conor Murray kick over the top for the winger to run onto, as Tommy Bowe showed! Ireland went out with a specific plan to attack via putting the ball behind the South Africans in positions where we could win it back and the centres were instructed to mainly carry and tackle, which they did well. And the plan worked. Jared Payne doing the unglamorous work when the game plan didn't demand that he show his passing game isn't a valid criticism. You can criticise the game plan if you like, that's fair, but it's a bit of a reach criticising the players for implementing it.

I think Keith Earls deserves to be first choice for Ireland right now on the left wing and should be backup to Payne as well. But your overkill championing of him by trying to talk down other players is very transparent and slightly desperate!

[Sin é]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out.  We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

Already read it, Sin é. A decent article which highlights Earls strengths on the day while brushing over his errors.

It covered his errors. What more is there to say about 4 missed tackles. Cave missed 2 and no one even noticed! Some serious searching looking for faults in Earls' game.

It was his first game out so it would be wrong to be too harsh. He did have a good game though, as did Cave. Cave heaped praise on Earls for his performance on the day.
You think all the players have the same fitness levels?  I don't agree, and I would think that's why Ireland had determined that Trimble was only going to get 40 minutes game time before the game started.

P.s what does all the players having the same fitness level have to do with Trimble not being fully match fit anyway? I doubt many of them were.

You keep damning him with faint praise though as if all he is, is a good finisher. He has a great step, draws in defendenders (giving space for others), has great awareness (i.e., his try - he was  in the right place at the right time to get the ball and actually score). He burned the Welsh players.

No wonder Cave heaped praise on him, Cave has never looked as comfortable with anyone else as he did with Earls and had his best outing in green last Saturday v Wales.

As for Trimble's fitness. A winger should be able to last 40 minutes without showing signs of fatigue. If he was a prop who had just had 15+ scrums, you might think he would be tiring a bit at that stage of the game.  Was Trimble only getting it because of a fitness issue or in an effort to give Zebo 40 mins as well? (I think the plan was for Felix to move to the left wing and Zebo to play fullback for last 40).

As for general fitness - I thought all the Irish players looked very fit and sharp on Saturday. You would never think it was their first game of the season.

Yes, it does covers his errors. I did make use of the idiom 'brush over'. Well Earls did miss his tackles, and knock the ball on. Cave missed two? I read he didn't miss any, but no matter. This isn't about Cave or whataboutery. It is about Earls.

Damning with faith praise, Very dramatic, Sin é Indeed, he's a great finisher, and one of the reasons he's a great finisher is that he has a great step. He has great awareness? Not convinced. He has great awareness when it comes to sniffing out opportunities, but I have yet to be convinced his awareness extends to those around him.

Having a good step doesn't necessarily mean you are a good finisher. Luke Fitz has a good step but he is a poor finisher (or so his try tally would suggest). Tommy Bowe & Andrew Trimble don't have a step but they are good finishers (Tommy in particular).

Cave did look comfortable partnering with Earls, and he does attribute that to Earls, but I would say they complimented each other in a game that provided little challenge to either. They both played well, but they were hardly challenged. That's not faint praise. That's fact based on one game.

Earls made things happen. Note how poor Ireland became when he went off (Wales scored 3 tries after he went off )

Oh, you're on about Trimble again. I have noticed that when others question Munster players you tend to drag the players of other Provinces into the fray. You also seem to have the inside ear on the fitness levels of players. I will admit defeat to your superior knowledge....

You brought Trimble into it. You said he was the best winger in Ireland. I would hope that the best winger in Ireland would have done a bit better with the opportunity he was given there and not be bundled into touch. (I think Trimble is a good winger by the way).

Yes, the player generally looked fit but, again, what has that to do with Trimble not being match fit? You're coming up with arguments based on little other than that which you want to believe. Not facts.

Put it this way, I would expect Trimble to have been as fit as everyone else on the pitch. I think you think he was being taken off because of fitness issues after 40 minutes. I don't think that was the reason he was to be taken off. I think it was to give Zebo 40 as fullback and Felix 40 on the wing.

[Guest]

I would be very surprised if Earls doesn't make it. He is a great finisher, and if his performance against the Welsh is a fair indicator of his ability at centre then it would be difficult to argue against his inclusion. When it comes to opening up defences, I think Schmidts plan so far hasn't really allowed for that. It has been limited but, as the results show, rightly so, thus far. Like you I'm hoping that changes leading into the World Cup, and hopefully we will be ready to show a bit more flair against the big sides. If we are ready.

I rate Earls highly. We already know how good a winger he is particularly at finishing tries but I'm probably one of the few people who still think he could make a really great 13. I would like to see him picked in the squad but if he doesn't it will probably be because he has only played one international in two years.

I do think there are question marks over his decision making at centre, but then I wasn't convinced Payne would make it at 13 for Ireland either, even though Payne is much more experienced at 13 than Earls. Earls had a good outing v Wales, but Wales were incredibly weak and I just don't know if that game is much of an indicator of Earls ability at centre. Time will tell.
I still think Earls will make the squad though. He is a versatile player, a great wing option who has shown, even if a poor opposition, that he can play at 13.

Some examples of his poor decision making please?

Payne is not more experienced at 13 than Earls. (Earls was selected for the Lions as a 13 in 2009). Payne has been just about 'solid' as a 13 for Ireland. Do you know, in the SA game in November, he didn't pass the ball once?  How is any winger going to score any tries if their centre doesn't pass the occasional ball out to them.

The Welsh centre partnership was probably the strongest element of the Welsh team.

Yes, Earls was selected at 13, but he was considered a utility back, as far as I'm aware. He had a great game v Royal XV.......

Payne played centre for Auckland Blues, and had a great season for them. He left them, and possibly a chance to play for the All Blacks, to play for Ulster. With the possible irony that he joined Ulster to play his preferred position of Fullback.

[Guest]

As a neutral it's surprising to see Fitzgerald be mentioned. In the back 3 I would rate Kearney, Trimble, Bowe, Zebo and Gilory higher than him. I don't think I've watched Felix Jones enough to comment on him yet, but he did well on the weekend.

Felix has been hampered by a couple of what probably could have been career ending injuries where he probably missed about 2 or 3 years. I suspect that is one of the reasons Schmidt likes him - his ability to deal with adversity.

Here is a vid of his highlights which will give you a good idea of what he is like. Very good at finding a gap (doesn't fall over like Rob Kearney) and has a great pass (such as the one to Andrew Trimble at the weekend where Andrew didn't have the gas to go the whole way).

Some highlights here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oFAvrXq-6o

If Trimble was fully match fit he would have got over the line, but great Welsh defence in forcing him into touch. With Trimble having been out so long I thought he had a great game. Even so, he is still the best winger in that Ireland squad. Certainly helped Earls look good with his only try.

Hoping for good news on Trimbles second scan. Big blow for Ireland if it proves bad news.

All the Irish players who started on Saturday would have the same fitness levels. Trimble allowed himself to be forced into touch. He should have turned in, not out.  We'll forgive him for it though!

You might enjoy reading this:
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-keith-earls-ireland-wales-2015-centre-2262184-Aug2015/

Already read it, Sin é. A decent article which highlights Earls strengths on the day while brushing over his errors.

It covered his errors. What more is there to say about 4 missed tackles. Cave missed 2 and no one even noticed! Some serious searching looking for faults in Earls' game.

It was his first game out so it would be wrong to be too harsh. He did have a good game though, as did Cave. Cave heaped praise on Earls for his performance on the day.
You think all the players have the same fitness levels?  I don't agree, and I would think that's why Ireland had determined that Trimble was only going to get 40 minutes game time before the game started.

P.s what does all the players having the same fitness level have to do with Trimble not being fully match fit anyway? I doubt many of them were.

You keep damning him with faint praise though as if all he is, is a good finisher. He has a great step, draws in defendenders (giving space for others), has great awareness (i.e., his try - he was  in the right place at the right time to get the ball and actually score). He burned the Welsh players.

No wonder Cave heaped praise on him, Cave has never looked as comfortable with anyone else as he did with Earls and had his best outing in green last Saturday v Wales.

As for Trimble's fitness. A winger should be able to last 40 minutes without showing signs of fatigue. If he was a prop who had just had 15+ scrums, you might think he would be tiring a bit at that stage of the game.  Was Trimble only getting it because of a fitness issue or in an effort to give Zebo 40 mins as well? (I think the plan was for Felix to move to the left wing and Zebo to play fullback for last 40).

As for general fitness - I thought all the Irish players looked very fit and sharp on Saturday. You would never think it was their first game of the season.

Yes, it does covers his errors. I did make use of the idiom 'brush over'. Well Earls did miss his tackles, and knock the ball on. Cave missed two? I read he didn't miss any, but no matter. This isn't about Cave or whataboutery. It is about Earls.

Damning with faith praise, Very dramatic, Sin é Indeed, he's a great finisher, and one of the reasons he's a great finisher is that he has a great step. He has great awareness? Not convinced. He has great awareness when it comes to sniffing out opportunities, but I have yet to be convinced his awareness extends to those around him.

Having a good step doesn't necessarily mean you are a good finisher. Luke Fitz has a good step but he is a poor finisher (or so his try tally would suggest). Tommy Bowe & Andrew Trimble don't have a step but they are good finishers (Tommy in particular).

Cave did look comfortable partnering with Earls, and he does attribute that to Earls, but I would say they complimented each other in a game that provided little challenge to either. They both played well, but they were hardly challenged. That's not faint praise. That's fact based on one game.

Earls made things happen. Note how poor Ireland became when he went off (Wales scored 3 tries after he went off )

Oh, you're on about Trimble again. I have noticed that when others question Munster players you tend to drag the players of other Provinces into the fray. You also seem to have the inside ear on the fitness levels of players. I will admit defeat to your superior knowledge....

You brought Trimble into it. You said he was the best winger in Ireland. I would hope that the best winger in Ireland would have done a bit better with the opportunity he was given there and not be bundled into touch. (I think Trimble is a good winger by the way).

Yes, the player generally looked fit but, again, what has that to do with Trimble not being match fit? You're coming up with arguments based on little other than that which you want to believe. Not facts.

Put it this way, I would expect Trimble to have been as fit as everyone else on the pitch. I think you think he was being taken off because of fitness issues after 40 minutes. I don't think that was the reason he was to be taken off. I think it was to give Zebo 40 as fullback and Felix 40 on the wing.

No, you brought Trimble into it. That's the only reason I responded to your post! And yes, he's the best winger in Ireland.

Haven't read all your comment. I will though. Bit busy.

[rodders]

Earls is a good option against weaker teams but he doesn't have the decision making or physicality against the better teams imo.

That said it could be that he is suited to the systemized approach Joe uses and coaches - and could be a real revelation under guidance.

I would have him (Earls) penciled in not just the 31 but as even no 23 for the starting squad.

Payne is also injury prone so there needs to be real options and competition in midfield, and it looks like there is now.

I'd like to see Bowe on the left and Trimble on the right as the starting wings but Joe is picky about left side/right side balance and Bowe is better on the right.

Zebo played really well I thought so its going to be very tough. Felix Jones has to go imo as Kearney is the only specialist 15, so might be Zebo will miss out.

Definitely I would cut McFadden next and then unless Fitzgerald has a blinder would leave him too.

I have a feeling Trimble may just miss out, but hope not because if fit and on form he's the best of the lot I think.

[Sin é]

Payne is not more experienced at 13 than Earls. (Earls was selected for the Lions as a 13 in 2009). Payne has been just about 'solid' as a 13 for Ireland. Do you know, in the SA game in November, he didn't pass the ball once?  How is any winger going to score any tries if their centre doesn't pass the occasional ball out to them.

Obviously with a Conor Murray kick over the top for the winger to run onto, as Tommy Bowe showed! Ireland went out with a specific plan to attack via putting the ball behind the South Africans in positions where we could win it back and the centres were instructed to mainly carry and tackle, which they did well. And the plan worked. Jared Payne doing the unglamorous work when the game plan didn't demand that he show his passing game isn't a valid criticism. You can criticise the game plan if you like, that's fair, but it's a bit of a reach criticising the players for implementing it.

I think Keith Earls deserves to be first choice for Ireland right now on the left wing and should be backup to Payne as well. But your overkill championing of him by trying to talk down other players is very transparent and slightly desperate!

Whether its the gameplan or not to keep the game tight, its pointless putting Keith Earls out on the wing if he is never going to get his hands on the ball.

With his physique, Earls is better in the centre of the pitch where he has some options to beat a man, rather than been shoved into touch on the left wing. If Earls is to be a winger, the right wing is the one he should be on.

As well as that, why would you not use left sided wingers (like Zebo or Fitz) on the wing. Note on Saturday when Zebo came on, he stayed on the left wing and Fergus went to the right wing (where Wales scored all their tries!)

[rodders]

As well as that, why would you not use left sided wingers (like Zebo or Fitz) on the wing. Note on Saturday when Zebo came on, he stayed on the left wing and Fergus went to the right wing (where Wales scored all their tries!)

Maybe Fergus misinterpreted that when Joe says he values guys who make other guys look good, that didn't include the opposition....

[Sin é]

Earls is a good option against weaker teams but he doesn't have the decision making or physicality against the better teams imo.

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making. You don't have time at the top level to make decisions, you need instinct. Like on Saturday for his he was quick enough to pounce for the ball and just score, whereas Andrew Trimble's instinct (decision making) was poor for his non-try.

He looked to be organising the backs defence on Saturday and it was shambolic as soon as he went off.

[Notch]

Simply because I know Earls can play there and he and Andrew Trimble are the two best wingers in the squad right now. He's not going to get his hands on the ball any more or any less than any other winger we pick so that's a non-argument. Ironically, given your line of argument, Payne is a much more creative player than him with a much better range of passing. Payne also has every bit as much if not more physicality.

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making.

For a winger yes, for a centre no. Earls instincts revolve around what he needs to do with the ball; when to use his feet, when to time his run, what line to take and when to make it, when to go outside, when to cut back etc. All essential for centre play, especially outside centre, and all what makes him such a great finisher. What we're calling 'decision making' is also instinctive, but it revolves around having an appreciation of what other players are doing and how the opposition defence is organised not just what you need to do and what the one or two defenders in front of you are doing. So the really good decision makers know when a player is in a better position, know when they should kick, pass or run, know when they have three or four passing options which one is the best, know what kind of kick to employ and what area of the field to aim at.

Both kinds of instincts or decision making skills are really important all over the pitch. But for me a winger really needs the former as they are the guys who either finish off moves or make the telling line break. An out half needs the latter kind as they are responsible for organising the attack and putting structure on the game. And a centre needs to be a blend of both.

Whereas guys like Jared Payne have that blend, Earls is very much the first type with little of the second. All that instinctive ability on how to beat a man makes him a decent outside centre, but an excellent winger. And when you have a guy who has the attributes he lacks at outside centre it's pretty obvious where he should be playing.

[profitius]

What Earls offers is real lightning pace, which is sadly lacking in the rest of our backline. His versatility should get him into the squad. But I'd actually start him on the left wing. The work rate and rucking and stuff that Schmidt demands can be coached into any of our players. But the lethal finishing ability of Earls cannot be. He's our best finisher.

We're ranked 2nd in the world apparently. But where would our back 5 rank in the world over the last two years in terms of opening up a defence? 7th? 8th?

The fact that our kicking game is working so well is great. But it also means opposition teams have to set themselves up to counter it. Wouldn't it be great to take France by surprise and run the ball out of our 22 when there's an opportunity and knock the stuffing out of them with a length of the pitch try. Earls beating one man on the outside could make all the difference in such a move.

We do have a number of talented and creative players coming through in the backs, although the RWC has come too soon to test many of these options. Henshaw is one of them, although this is largely nullified in my opinion when he is playing at 12, as he has little of the space he gets from either 13 or fullback. Zebo is indeed another, however he is also given little room to manoeuvre with the current game plan.

I am excited to see the aftermath of the World Cup when the likes of McCloskey gets game time at 12 alongside Henshaw.

Looking ahead to 2019 we'll have Hanrahan, McCloskey, Olding, Ringrose, Ross Byrne, Cian Kelleher, Ciaran Gaffney and plenty of others to choose from. There'll be fierce competition for places among the backs.


Fecklessrogue, I would agree that perhaps, the backs lack a bit of creativity. A Conrad Smith, Ben Smith type player. But the players we do have currently are good at the doing the basics.

[profitius]

If you ever want to spark a debate on here, here are a few keywords:
Earls, POM, Fitzgerald

[The Great Aukster]

I don't know who was organising the backs defence but it was poor at the end. Cave and Ryan looked out on their feet so not having the numbers probably had something to do with it.

Cave and Earls are still very matey so it's no surprise Darren talking up his old pal, however if Earls needs that confidence boost to perform it's unlikely he'll get it from Cave who won't make the cut. Darren misses way too many tackles to be a truly viable 12.

Madigan might be going as 12 cover but is defensively lightweight, so Joe could be tempted to select Darce after all. Gordon may be nowhere near as effective as he formerly was but is still maybe the next best defensive Centre remaining in the squad. In turn that could be a problem for Earls who has never played well alongside him...

[Sin é]

Simply because I know Earls can play there and he and Andrew Trimble are the two best wingers in the squad right now. He's not going to get his hands on the ball any more or any less than any other winger we pick so that's a non-argument. Ironically, given your line of argument, Payne is a much more creative player than him with a much better range of passing. Payne also has every bit as much if not more physicality.

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing it then, because there has not been too much evidence of it so far when he plays in the centre.

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making.

For a winger yes, for a centre no. Earls instincts revolve around what he needs to do with the ball; when to use his feet, when to time his run, what line to take and when to make it, when to go outside, when to cut back etc. All essential for centre play, especially outside centre, and all what makes him such a great finisher. What we're calling 'decision making' is also instinctive, but it revolves around having an appreciation of what other players are doing and how the opposition defence is organised not just what you need to do and what the one or two defenders in front of you are doing. So the really good decision makers know when a player is in a better position, know when they should kick, pass or run, know when they have three or four passing options which one is the best, know what kind of kick to employ and what area of the field to aim at.

Simon Zebo had his best try scoring season the season that he played outside Earls. Worth looking at his highlights.
What happens is that the opposition need to man mark Earls which gives others space.
What you are trying to contend there is that somehow or other if a centre scores tries he must not be aware of anyone else. BOD was a try scoring centre - he rarely passed the ball if he didn't need to. It was only when he lost his acceleration and pace did he start looking around for others. Basically what you contend is for centres who don't have acceleration or pace - its what you are used to up in Ulster.

Both kinds of instincts or decision making skills are really important all over the pitch. But for me a winger really needs the former as they are the guys who either finish off moves or make the telling line break. An out half needs the latter kind as they are responsible for organising the attack and putting structure on the game. And a centre needs to be a blend of both.

Thats a load of waffle.

Whereas guys like Jared Payne have that blend, Earls is very much the first type with little of the second. All that instinctive ability on how to beat a man makes him a decent outside centre, but an excellent winger. And when you have a guy who has the attributes he lacks at outside centre it's pretty obvious where he should be playing.

Payne is a very average centre. He has made loads of tackles - thats about it. Ireland are bluent with him at centre. His rookie inside kid of an inside centre really showed how poor Payne is an outside centre in the 6Ns.

[Sin é]

I don't know who was organising the backs defence but it was poor at the end. Cave and Ryan looked out on their feet so not having the numbers probably had something to do with it.

People think Madigan is an inside centre!

Cave and Earls are still very matey so it's no surprise Darren talking up his old pal, however if Earls needs that confidence boost to perform it's unlikely he'll get it from Cave who won't make the cut. Darren misses way too many tackles to be a truly viable 12.

A lot more people than Darren Cave talking up Earls (like Schmidt for instance). He named checked Earls, Ryan and Heaslip.

Madigan might be going as 12 cover but is defensively lightweight, so Joe could be tempted to select Darce after all. Gordon may be nowhere near as effective as he formerly was but is still maybe the next best defensive Centre remaining in the squad. In turn that could be a problem for Earls who has never played well alongside him...

Thats not true - Earls was one of the better players in the last 6Ns he played beside Darcy. Darcy is finished now, but lets not forget they drew in France which is something that had not been achieved for a while. Its only in the last year or so that Darce has faded.

(For the record, Earls played well beside an assortment of centres for Munster such as Rua Tipoki, Jean de Villiers and Mafi, none of whom you would term as defensive centres.

[Artful_Dodger]

Its interesting that you can only ever articulate these arguments when it comes to Munster players Sin, and never players from the other provinces.

[Sin é]

Its interesting that you can only ever articulate these arguments when it comes to Munster players Sin, and never players from the other provinces.  

Some lack of self-awareness. Have a look at yourself in the mirror. What do you discuss over on the Ulster thread? How Peter O'Mahony is the best No. 6 in Ireland and young Hendo might eventually get to be as good as him?

[Blanko]

Earls is a good option against weaker teams but he doesn't have the decision making or physicality against the better teams imo.

That said it could be that he is suited to the systemized approach Joe uses and coaches - and could be a real revelation under guidance.

I would have him (Earls) penciled in not just the 31 but as even no 23 for the starting squad.

Payne is also injury prone so there needs to be real options and competition in midfield, and it looks like there is now.

I'd like to see Bowe on the left and Trimble on the right as the starting wings but Joe is picky about left side/right side balance and Bowe is better on the right.

Zebo played really well I thought so its going to be very tough. Felix Jones has to go imo as Kearney is the only specialist 15, so might be Zebo will miss out.

Definitely I would cut McFadden next and then unless Fitzgerald has a blinder would leave him too.

I have a feeling Trimble may just miss out, but hope not because if fit and on form he's the best of the lot I think.

Totally agree. Another good game by Earls against weak opposition, this time a Wales 2nd/3rd string. Then you get the news links and youtube videos.

He's not not enough against the top sides. His first instinct is always to keep the ball.

And of course poor old Jared gets the "average" tag to make way for him despite our midfield being a fortress over the past year.

Y'all need to cool off on Earls..........please

[Sin é]

Earls is a good option against weaker teams but he doesn't have the decision making or physicality against the better teams imo.

That said it could be that he is suited to the systemized approach Joe uses and coaches - and could be a real revelation under guidance.

I would have him (Earls) penciled in not just the 31 but as even no 23 for the starting squad.

Payne is also injury prone so there needs to be real options and competition in midfield, and it looks like there is now.

I'd like to see Bowe on the left and Trimble on the right as the starting wings but Joe is picky about left side/right side balance and Bowe is better on the right.

Zebo played really well I thought so its going to be very tough. Felix Jones has to go imo as Kearney is the only specialist 15, so might be Zebo will miss out.

Definitely I would cut McFadden next and then unless Fitzgerald has a blinder would leave him too.

I have a feeling Trimble may just miss out, but hope not because if fit and on form he's the best of the lot I think.

Totally agree. Another good game by Earls against weak opposition, this time a Wales 2nd/3rd string. Then you get the news links and youtube videos.

He's not not enough against the top sides.  His first instinct is always to keep the ball.

And of course poor old Jared gets the "average" tag to make way for him despite our midfield being a fortress over the past year.

Y'all need to cool off on Earls..........please

His first instinct is to score tries - lots of them.  A very bit of average defending from young Jared for Earls last try up in Ravenhill - Earls made it look easy.

It seems Jared is getting his chance to impress v Scotland this weekend (alongside Darcy) and Mads!

[rodders]

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making.

For a winger yes, for a centre no. Earls instincts revolve around what he needs to do with the ball;

Totally agree - although even a wing decision making is important.

Instinct will make breaks and create chances but it's decision making is what finishes them off.

That's what sets the AB's apart - when they make a break - whatever player has the ball 99% of the time will pick the right pass and the guys off the ball will pick the right support line.

Earls just isn't at that level - none of the Irish players are but he'd be one of the ones who needs the most work. Payne, Cave and Henshaw just read the game that bit better and create more for people around them which is what Joe looks for.

Earls like Zebo brings a bit of cutting edge with his pace but this won't get him a free pass under Schmidt - he'll need to get all parts of his game right so it's not surprising he had one of his best games, as did Cave, against Wales - they'll have been really well drilled when to pass and what line to hit.

However when the game does break up from that structure you see the best and worst of Earls - i.e. his broken field running and speed but his lack of ability to read when and when not to pass when on the ball, away from set plays (something Joe praised Payne for). That cost 2 certain tries which you won't get away with against a better team.

The question is whether the fact that he created those chances balances that out (probably not under Schmidt) - plus the try he scored - would Payne have scored that? Maybe but probably you have more confidence on Earls to beat the cover defense.

[Sin é]

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making.

For a winger yes, for a centre no. Earls instincts revolve around what he needs to do with the ball;

Totally agree - although even a wing decision making is important.

Instinct will make breaks and create chances but it's decision making is what finishes them off.

Decision making never finished a try off. Skill does. And its a skill that your winger is in the right place at the right time to receive the pass.

That's what sets the AB's apart - when they make a break - whatever player has the ball 99% of the time will pick the right pass and the guys off the ball will pick the right support line.

It helps that all the ABs have great (& similar) pace (and are much faster than all of our players.

Earls just isn't at that level - none of the Irish players are but he'd be one of the ones who needs the most work. Payne, Cave and Henshaw just read the game that bit better and create more for people around them which is what Joe looks for.

Yea, they read the game and it passes them by. Joe has to work with the (slow) cattle he has.

Earls like Zebo brings a bit of cutting edge with his pace but this won't get him a free pass under Schmidt - he'll need to get all parts of his game right so it's not surprising he had one of his best games, as did Cave, against Wales - they'll have been really well drilled when to pass and what line to hit.

However when the game does break up from that structure you see the best and worst of Earls - i.e. his broken field running and speed but his lack of ability to read when and when not to pass when on the ball, away from set plays (something Joe praised Payne for). That cost 2 certain tries which you won't get away with against a better team.

Payne doesn't pass. He just trucks it up and tackles. Was Schmidt praising him for not passing? What 2 tries are you talking about?

The question is whether the fact that he created those chances balances that out (probably not under Schmidt) - plus the try he scored - would Payne have scored that? Maybe but probably you have more confidence on Earls to beat the cover defense.

I'd imagine Schmidt might be concerned how Ireland could spend so much time in the Wales 22 during the 6Ns and not score. Even the game against Scotland most the scores came from the forwards just banging away at the line.

[Sin é]

As an aside, the Munster management must be expecting to lose a lot of backs for the world cup - they have brought in 2 players for this purpose on short-term contracts (Matt D'Arcy & Shane Monahan).

[Guest]

Earls has very quick instincts, which is way better than decision making.

For a winger yes, for a centre no. Earls instincts revolve around what he needs to do with the ball;

Totally agree - although even a wing decision making is important.

Instinct will make breaks and create chances but it's decision making is what finishes them off.

Decision making never finished a try off. Skill does. And its a skill that your winger is in the right place at the right time to receive the pass.  

That's what sets the AB's apart - when they make a break - whatever player has the ball 99% of the time will pick the right pass and the guys off the ball will pick the right support line.

It helps that all the ABs have great (& similar) pace (and are much faster than all of our players.

Earls just isn't at that level - none of the Irish players are but he'd be one of the ones who needs the most work. Payne, Cave and Henshaw just read the game that bit better and create more for people around them which is what Joe looks for.

Yea, they read the game and it passes them by. Joe has to work with the (slow) cattle he has.

Earls like Zebo brings a bit of cutting edge with his pace but this won't get him a free pass under Schmidt - he'll need to get all parts of his game right so it's not surprising he had one of his best games, as did Cave, against Wales - they'll have been really well drilled when to pass and what line to hit.

However when the game does break up from that structure you see the best and worst of Earls - i.e. his broken field running and speed but his lack of ability to read when and when not to pass when on the ball, away from set plays (something Joe praised Payne for). That cost 2 certain tries which you won't get away with against a better team.

Payne doesn't pass. He just trucks it up and tackles. Was Schmidt praising him for not passing? What 2 tries are you talking about?

The question is whether the fact that he created those chances balances that out (probably not under Schmidt) - plus the try he scored - would Payne have scored that? Maybe but probably you have more confidence on Earls to beat the cover defense.

I'd imagine Schmidt might be concerned how Ireland could spend so much time in the Wales 22 during the 6Ns and not score. Even the game against Scotland most the scores came from the forwards just banging away at the line.

I would think that good decision making makes tries, poor decision making destroys opportunities. I take your point about the skill of a winger. The right place at the right time, and Earls does that. He is a very good poacher, like Bowe, but we're talking about Earls attributes at centre.

Payne doesn't pass? Strange that Schmidt would tolerate this in his plan which demands plenty of offloads...

Ireland have just won back to back 6N's, and are now placed 2nd in world ranking, with Ireland playing exactly the way he wants them to play. I don't think he is too concerned

[RuggerRadge2611]

Be wary of this weekend's result. You could pick the Cork Constitutions 17th XV and still win this one via a procession.

[The Great Aukster]

Ireland had Canada (played by Wales) last weekend. This weekend they will have Romania. It will be Romania's second game in five days after getting hammered by France, they've still a decent front row but are a bit iffy in the backs. It's nice of Cotter to facilitate his old side kick by getting Scotland to simulate the fixture just as Gatland did last week.

[GunsGerms]

With back to back championships and the number 2 world ranking has Joe Schmidt already cemented his place as the greatest coach Ireland has ever had?

Not to jinx him but I feel he has.

[Marshes]

With back to back championships and the number 2 world ranking has Joe Schmidt already cemented his place as the greatest coach Ireland has ever had?

Not to jinx him but I feel he has.

Think it, but lets wait two months more before saying that out loud

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