Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[Artful_Dodger]

Being reported all over twitter that Trimble is out, Bowe is going.....and quite remarkably Fitzgerald is going. We are bringing two scrum halfs meaning that Madigan is being seen as third choice 9,10 and 12.

[eirebilly]

Boss, i can understand but Trimble out over Bowe is a big call especially when Fitz is going. If this is true mind you...

[GunsGerms]

Cant understand Fitz going. Is it because he "covers" a few positions? Dont think he deserves to go at all.

[GunsGerms]

Apparently Earls has a broken jaw too. Is it a risk taking him?

[mrsuperclear]

This makes literally no sense unless Trimble is injured...

Is Tadhg Furlong also supposed to cover loosehead? This still seems too ridiculous to be true. The only reason to bring Fitzgerald to the world cup would be as a sympathy pick for missing the last one. I'd genuinely be bringing Gilroy and McFadden ahead of him based on the warm up games and I'd be starting Trimble ahead of Bowe...

[Guest]

This makes literally no sense unless Trimble is injured...

Is Tadhg Furlong also supposed to cover loosehead? This still seems too ridiculous to be true. The only reason to bring Fitzgerald to the world cup would be as a sympathy pick for missing the last one. I'd genuinely be bringing Gilroy and McFadden ahead of him based on the warm up games and I'd be starting Trimble ahead of Bowe...

Agree with all of that. I can't take any of this seiously though. Seems a bit far fetched, so I'm not allowing myself to fret, just yet. If Schmidt confirms it tomorrow I will be more than a little annoyed

[Notch]

Yeah, IF it was true, the two scrum-halves, Fitzgerald and Bowe over Trimble and Jones and Furlong over someone who can cover loose head despite Healys injury doubt makes this a squad even I as a big Schmidt fan would have major concerns with. We will have to wait and see, but not taking either Trimble OR Jones makes even less sense to me if you're freeing up a place by only selecting two scrum-halves because it removes any need to have anyone but Earls capable of filling in at centre.

With Zebo likely to be on the bench to cover fullback it also seems likely if thats the squad that the starting back three would be 11. Fitzgerald 14. Kearney 15. Kearney which is not exactly indicating we are going to try and play a more open style of rugby, which I've been holding out hope for.

The Trimble thing is particularly jarring as he's proven his fitness with an 80-minute performance on Friday just as Earls and Fitzgerald have come up as injury doubts. So very much hoping whoever put that squad up has egg on their face tomorrow.

It's in the Irish Times now, so actually getting worried that this squad is going to turn out to be right. We have such a wealth of talent in the back three it makes no sense to be carrying players who are off form. I love Tommy Bowe, but he's not been at his best for a long time now. Neither has Fitzgerald.

[GunsGerms]

I cant believe Rog didnt make it. WTF was Schmidt thinking.

[Guest]

Thornley now saying that Trimble is out ThornleyWearsBigGirlsPants

I will be gutted if that's true.

[SecretFly]

Very surprised that Trimble finds no opening for himself.

It seems whatever 'inventive off-the-cuff back play' that might have been coached over the last number of weeks must have been finally scrapped in favour of another campaign of defensive and attacking slog.  If Trimble just wasn't achieving the fitness levels required then fine... but if he's just not the style of player Schmidt feels is suited to this particular world cup then it seems we'll all be biting our nails again as we try to cling to some points in second halves - as the increasingly confident opposition comes at us in wave after wave after rapid-fire offloading wave of attack.

I'm disappointed that Schmidt either still doesn't believe in the all-out attacking credentials of his players or perhaps simply that he never wanted to move his Ireland in that direction at all... that we were all bluffed from the start.

I still have faith that I'm all wrong and Schmidt is keeping real intentions under lock and key - but the exclusion of Trimble (if fully fit) is an amber light going on in my head.

[eirebilly]

Very surprised that Trimble finds no opening for himself.

It seems whatever 'inventive off-the-cuff back play' that might have been coached over the last number of weeks must have been finally scrapped in favour of another campaign of defensive and attacking slog.  If Trimble just wasn't achieving the fitness levels required then fine... but if he's just not the style of player Schmidt feels is suited to this particular world cup then it seems we'll all be biting our nails again as we try to cling to some points in second halves - as the increasingly confident opposition comes at us in wave after wave after rapid-fire offloading wave of attack.

I'm disappointed that Schmidt either still doesn't believe in the all-out attacking credentials of his players or perhaps simply that he never wanted to move his Ireland in that direction at all... that we were all bluffed from the start.

I still have faith that I'm all wrong and Schmidt is keeping real intentions under lock and key - but the exclusion of Trimble (if fully fit) is an amber light going on in my head.

And being absolutely clueless in attack if behind...

[Notch]

To be fair, if Trimble is out it is likely to be due to a lack of game time/issues recovering for games related to injury.

It's the inclusion of Fitzgerald that worries me.

[Guest]

Trimble showed enough in the first game v Wales. Not sure about injury though. He has just played a full game v Embra. Hopefully get some clarification from Trimble himself.

Fitz? Fitz?!?

[Sin é]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

and yet Ireland are the 3rd ranked team in world rugby. Shows how much you know.

That is a drop from being ranked 2nd (which he had little or nothing to do with since he has been out for most of last season when Ireland rose to 2nd

[mrsuperclear]

I think as well the two SH's issue is another unnecessary risk. It could pay off, but ultimately the extra space is allegedly being used for Fitz and Cave...

Say for argument sake Conor Murray gets concussion against Italy and due to rtp protocols can't play again until the quarter final, we'd have to play Reddan at SH who definitely can't play 80 min and have Madigan on the bench to close out the match. He'd struggle to close out a match at FH for jaysus sake.

And before someone says you could replace Conor Murray for the match against France, if you did do that he can't come back. Once an injured player is replaced they can't come back into the squad.

I think the other rule is that they have to be in the squad 48 hours before the match to be able to play..

This all just seems too unlike Joe Schmidt, he's too clever and sensible for this sort of nonsense with two SH's, not bringing your best winger and two LH's one of which is a massive doubt. I'm still going to hope this is all a load of nonsense until lunch tomorrow...

[Sin é]

With Zebo likely to be on the bench to cover fullback it also seems likely if thats the squad that the starting back three would be 11. Fitzgerald 14. Kearney 15. Kearney which is not exactly indicating we are going to try and play a more open style of rugby, which I've been holding out hope for.

Not necessarily, he could start on the left wing and just move to fullback if Kearney gets injured. Zebo & Jones are always interchanging anyway with Munster (we saw a bit of a simlar thing going on with the two Kearneys v Wales).

[Sin é]

I cant believe Rog didnt make it. WTF was Schmidt thinking.

Wouldn't Schmidt just love to have ROG in his team.

[Sin é]

Apparently Earls has a broken jaw too. Is it a risk taking him?

I doubt if he would be going if he has a broken jaw - he would be out for at least 6 weeks with that. Think its concussion and maybe a bruised cheek (2-3 weeks).

[Sin é]

It seems whatever 'inventive off-the-cuff back play' that might have been coached over the last number of weeks must have been finally scrapped in favour of another campaign of defensive and attacking slog.  If Trimble just wasn't achieving the fitness levels required then fine... but if he's just not the style of player Schmidt feels is suited to this particular world cup then it seems we'll all be biting our nails again as we try to cling to some points in second halves - as the increasingly confident opposition comes at us in wave after wave after rapid-fire offloading wave of attack.

I'm disappointed that Schmidt either still doesn't believe in the all-out attacking credentials of his players or perhaps simply that he never wanted to move his Ireland in that direction at all... that we were all bluffed from the start.

I still have faith that I'm all wrong and Schmidt is keeping real intentions under lock and key - but the exclusion of Trimble (if fully fit) is an amber light going on in my head.

Rob Penney tweeted this two weeks ago. Thought the 'Many hand breaks holding him back!' comment fairly informative on the present Ireland coaching team.
‏
@PenzRob
@Munsterrugby @SimonZebo if you let him play......Zebs can play!!! Give him freedom to express himself!! Many hand breaks holding him back!

[GunsGerms]

Pretty sure its broken but he will be kept in the squad.

[GunsGerms]

Who cares what Rob Penny thinks. In terms of the Ireland squad he is a nobody.

[Sin é]

Pretty sure its broken but he will be kept in the squad.

Jonathan Sexton was out for 2 months with a broken jaw. Earls would not be going if he had one.

[GunsGerms]

Pretty sure its broken but he will be kept in the squad.

Jonathan Sexton was out for 2 months with a broken jaw. Earls would not be going if he had one.

Not all breaks are the same. Earls doesnt need surgery but it is a break. Drico fractured his cheek in a warm up before the 07 WC and played on.

[ME-109]

The only thing broken around here is Guns and his manlove for daverage.

[GunsGerms]

The only thing broken around here is Guns and his manlove for daverage.

You're like a broken record Dod. You love Kearndog too you are always crapping on about him. Closet Leinster fan.

[profitius]

Trimble missing out is a shock. I would say though that all is not lost. It's likely there'll be a number of injuries so they will have opportunities to call up players.

[GunsGerms]

Ireland squad confirmed:

Trimble, Moore and Boss have been left out. Only 2 nines picked and Cave, Kearney, Earls, Fitz and Bowe made the squad.

Forwards: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Nathan White, Mike Ross, Tadgh Furlong, Iain Henderson, Paul O’Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Devin Toner, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Jordi Murphy, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony

Backs (14) Tommy Bowe, Darren Cave, Dave Kearney, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Robbie Henshaw, Paddy Jackson, Rob Kearney, Ian Madigan, Conor Murray, Jared Payne, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Simon Zebo.

[Sin é]

Spare a thought for those who just missed out and who did play well.

Dave Kilcoyne (He must have known last week because he posted an image of his acceptance to start a Masters in UL last week which was fulltime beginningin September!
Michael Bent:
Tommy O'Donnell:He as playing really well.
Rhys Ruddock: He will get another chance.
Isaac Boss: He has been to 2 world cups and his form didn't deserve it. Still, a big chance. Schmidt must really not rate Marmion.
Gordon D'Arcy: Would have been nice if he made it. Enjoy your retirement Darce.
Andrew Trimble: It must be injury related.
Fergus McFadden: Just not the player he was 2/3 years ago.
Felix Jones: Really, really tough on him. To have come through all the injuries he has done and to get injured in a warmup game having been selected for the last world cup, to be left out now must be very hard for him.

Those very lucky: Luke Fitz & Tommy Bowe. I think Cave & Kearney deserved their spots.

[GunsGerms]

Donnacha Ryan is quite lucky given that he has only played two warm up matches in the last two years. Good player though.

[marty2086]

Trimble missing out is a shock. I would say though that all is not lost. It's likely there'll be a number of injuries so they will have opportunities to call up players.

With Earls and Fitzgerald both going hes almost certain to be getting a call

[Golden]

Surprised theres only 2 looseheads. Healy must be fit for the Canada game.

Fitz is very lucky.

I think Trimble will still make it. Someone is bound to get injured.

[Sin é]

Trimble missing out is a shock. I would say though that all is not lost. It's likely there'll be a number of injuries so they will have opportunities to call up players.

With Earls and Fitzgerald both going hes almost certain to be getting a call

Earls has been fine fitness wise since his last op in January. Please do not put him in the same category as Fitz.

Getting a knock on the head (and resultant layoff) is not the same as soft tissue issues.

[GunsGerms]

Earls has a broken jaw but will be ok before the WC.

Im sure someone will get injured in the England game, thats what usually happens.

[Notch]

What I don't like about the back three selection, is the lack of aggressive defenders. Trimble and McFadden would lead the way in that, and Gilroy is also surprisingly adept in this area. I feel that our selection doesn't include aggressive kick chasers, guys who are comfortable making the read to shoot out of the defensive line and get the big hit. We're extremely passive in defence and that worries me when we're trying to soak up pressure from sides like France. Let's them generate momentum.

[Artful_Dodger]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game. Would explain things if true...

[Notch]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game.  Would explain things if true...

Will be telling to see what role he plays in the Ospreys game.

[the-goon]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game.  Would explain things if true...

balls....

[RubyGuby]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game.  Would explain things if true...

balls....

No just his toe, his balls appeared to be fine

[GunsGerms]

What I don't like about the back three selection, is the lack of aggressive defenders. Trimble and McFadden would lead the way in that, and Gilroy is also surprisingly adept in this area. I feel that our selection doesn't include aggressive kick chasers, guys who are comfortable making the read to shoot out of the defensive line and get the big hit. We're extremely passive in defence and that worries me when we're trying to soak up pressure from sides like France. Let's them generate momentum.

Id probably go along with that.

[Guest]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game.  Would explain things if true...

Did Schmidt mention anything about it? If not, I doubt there's any truth in it. What I have heard is that Schmidt thinks Trimble has some catching up to do, due to lack of game time. If that's true, it's nonsense. I mean if he can pick players who showed little to nothing in the warm ups, he should be able to pick Trimble who had a great 1st half v Wales.

It will be interesting to see Ulsters squad for Friday.

Delighted for Cave. I have no doubt he fully deserves his place.

[profitius]

Congrats to the selected players.


Furlong is the bolter. I didn't think thee would be any but he must be really impressing in training because they don't normally select young players.


Squad caps
Forwards 611, 36 average
Backs 432, 31 average
Total 1043, 34 average.


Team of missing players - off the top of my head..

1 Kilcoyne
2 Sherry
3 Moore
4 Tuohy
5 Foley
6 Ruddock
7 O'Donnell
8 Copeland
9 Marmion
10 Hanrahan
11 Healy
12 L Marshall
13 McCloskey
14 Trimble
15 Olding

16 Casey
17 Buckley
18 Bent
19 McCarthy
20 Muldoon
21 Keatley
22 Cooney
23 Gilroy

[GunsGerms]

I think Boss would have made it ahead of Marmion and Casey. Who is Healy at 11?

[Marshes]

Matt Healy, Connacht Speedster. Very impressive last season.

[The Great Aukster]

This makes literally no sense unless Trimble is injured...

Is Tadhg Furlong also supposed to cover loosehead? This still seems too ridiculous to be true. The only reason to bring Fitzgerald to the world cup would be as a sympathy pick for missing the last one. I'd genuinely be bringing Gilroy and McFadden ahead of him based on the warm up games and I'd be starting Trimble ahead of Bowe...

Agree with all of that. I can't take any of this seiously though. Seems a bit far fetched, so I'm not allowing myself to fret, just yet. If Schmidt confirms it tomorrow I will be more than a little annoyed

Taking only two looseheads is a massive gamble. Furlong has all his experience at Tighthead and even that's not very high level.
If Healy is not quite ready for the Canada game then Ireland will have an untried LH on the bench - it is questionable whether Furlong is suitably trained and experienced for the position. If McGrath picks up a knock in that game, either he or Healy will have to go home. If McGrath tweaks a hamstring in the Captain's run before Romania, either he or Healy will have to be on the bench and prove to World Rugby they are fit to avoid forfeiting the points.

[kunu]

Happy enough to have Madigan covering scrum half. His passing is probably more suited to the role rather than further outfield. I'm sure he'll be able to handle the box kicking duties, and the Madigan signature show-and-go will make a few appearances from the base of the ruck I'm sure.

Furlong is a bit more of an unknown entity at loose head. I'm willing to trust that a squad featuring Feek and Ross (two scrum-savvy fellas) wouldn't be daft enough to allow such a risky call unless it had been planned in advance. We know Madigan has been training at 9 all summer, I'm sure Furlong has been training at both sides of the scrum to prepare.

[Sin é]

Earls has a broken jaw but will be ok before the WC.

According to Joe Schmidt, it was concussion and they expect him to be cleared the protocols by the weekend.

You can watch press conference here:

Madigan has been training privately during the down season to play scrumhalf. They only expect him to cover 9 & 10 (and why Cave made it). Talks a bit about having a non-specialist centre pairing.

Said they decided not to bring Felix because Zebo played well there and Rob Kearney is in good form.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/i-was-more-emotional-than-the-players-joe-schmidt-on-the-brutal-reality-of-cutting-squad-31494296.html

Scroll down to get the video of the press conference.

[Guest]

This makes literally no sense unless Trimble is injured...

Is Tadhg Furlong also supposed to cover loosehead? This still seems too ridiculous to be true. The only reason to bring Fitzgerald to the world cup would be as a sympathy pick for missing the last one. I'd genuinely be bringing Gilroy and McFadden ahead of him based on the warm up games and I'd be starting Trimble ahead of Bowe...

Agree with all of that. I can't take any of this seiously though. Seems a bit far fetched, so I'm not allowing myself to fret, just yet. If Schmidt confirms it tomorrow I will be more than a little annoyed

Taking only two looseheads is a massive gamble. Furlong has all his experience at Tighthead and even that's not very high level.
If Healy is not quite ready for the Canada game then Ireland will have an untried LH on the bench - it is questionable whether Furlong is suitably trained and experienced for the position. If McGrath picks up a knock in that game, either he or Healy will have to go home. If McGrath tweaks a hamstring in the Captain's run before Romania, either he or Healy will have to be on the bench and prove to World Rugby they are fit to avoid forfeiting the points.

It appears to be a gamble, although according to reports Healy is playing v England. It will be a huge relief if he comes through fit and firing.

Schmidt gives his excuse for dropping Trimble:

Porkies

I just can't agree. The inclusion of Fitz makes that a nonsense.

[Pete330v2]

This makes literally no sense unless Trimble is injured...

Is Tadhg Furlong also supposed to cover loosehead? This still seems too ridiculous to be true. The only reason to bring Fitzgerald to the world cup would be as a sympathy pick for missing the last one. I'd genuinely be bringing Gilroy and McFadden ahead of him based on the warm up games and I'd be starting Trimble ahead of Bowe...

Agree with all of that. I can't take any of this seiously though. Seems a bit far fetched, so I'm not allowing myself to fret, just yet. If Schmidt confirms it tomorrow I will be more than a little annoyed

Taking only two looseheads is a massive gamble. Furlong has all his experience at Tighthead and even that's not very high level.
If Healy is not quite ready for the Canada game then Ireland will have an untried LH on the bench - it is questionable whether Furlong is suitably trained and experienced for the position. If McGrath picks up a knock in that game, either he or Healy will have to go home. If McGrath tweaks a hamstring in the Captain's run before Romania, either he or Healy will have to be on the bench and prove to World Rugby they are fit to avoid forfeiting the points.

It appears to be a gamble, although according to reports Healy is playing v England. It will be a huge relief if he comes through fit and firing.

Schmidt gives his excuse for dropping Trimble:

Porkies

I just can't agree. The inclusion of Fitz makes that a nonsense.

Absolutely and apart from the difference in gametime everyone knows what Andrew Trimble brings to the side and exactly what Fitz does not. I just doesn't weigh up at all to exclude Trimbs for Fitz. I smell a fishy rat somewhere.

[Guest]

Maybe it's all part of a cunning plan, Pete. Maybe Schmidt is really holding Trimble as the ace up his sleeve

No, I don't think so either. Who knows though, there's a chance that Trimble will still feature. At least we get him back for Ulster

[Marshes]

Actually gutted for Trimble. Worked his way back into the squad after wilderness and scapegoating under Kidney, becomes a key player only for injury to strike at the wrong time, but he still should be in that squad if he is fit after the Ulster game. Joe can't use the lack of the lack of match practice excuse because Healy has even less. Without wishing injury on anyone I hope he does get his chance to come in.

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