Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[Marshes]

Jeez thats a bit in at the deep end no? I'd expect his first one or two performances to be rusty as he gets back up to pace

[Notch]

If thats true you have to wonder about the logic of leaving out Trimble for him to get game time... jesus.

[mrsuperclear]

If thats true you have to wonder about the logic of leaving out Trimble for him to get game time... jesus.

God knows what the logic was. It can't have been Bowe was going better in training, it can't have been Fitz was playing better on the pitch at match day, it can't have been lack of gametime with Healy going. Who knows...I feel awful hoping for a small injury to Bowe/Fitz in training, but I really think we need Trimble at the world cup. Bowe can't be trusted based on England and i don't recall seeing Kearney, Earls, Fitz or Zebo ever playing on the right wing for Ireland. Not saying they can't manage it, but Trimble would surely be preferable given the option...

[Notch]

They can, but its a glaring omission. The sad thing about Bowe is, I wasn't at all surprised. I was doubted by some other Ulster fans on twitter and on here when I said I didn't think Bowe should be in the squad and that Trimble has out-performed him for 2 or 3 seasons... I was Bowes most ardent champion when he was left out of the 2007 RWC just before going into the form of his life. Now he's been coasting on his (very well-earned) reputation- a game like this was waiting to happen. It was foreseeable.

He is going to be struggling to make the Ulster team ahead of Gilroy and Trimble this year so to see him ahead of them both for Ireland is surprising to me.

[RubyGuby]

Class is permanent Form is temporary - Is Tommy bucking the trend and going the same way as Dwayne Peel. I could not believe that was TB trying to tackle the England winger, couldn't believe my eyes actually

[SecretFly]

It's all part of Joe's Master Plan (slot in appropriate evil laugh - extended)

Like I've been saying for a long time now, it's all very strange.  I mean the form (not just of Bowe - but he and Kearney are the most pointed)
By all accounts Joe picked a squad of over-the-hill, out-of-their-depth, cement-footed eejits to fight this WC for him.  

The Provinces have been tripping over themselves through last year trying to prove they don't have a clue what a rugby ball is or what it does.  They were largely overall pathetic last year.  (Connacht an exception).  Huffing and puffing against Zebre and Treviso, allegedly never knowing when a tiny increase of pace and accuracy might actually slaughter their opponents.  Nope, the butter ball nonsense continued.  MOC especially must have been pulling his ...hair... out.  No wonder he picked up an attacking coach job pretty quickly back home.  The Australian's ain't eejits.  They listened to his stories of non-co-operation from the Natives and obviously believed them.

So Joe picks Bowe.... a player who for me has had so much edge shaved off of him that he's become a beachball - bobbing up and down the field, bouncing off opposition players and bouncing away from balls too.

But Joe picks him.  Brainy Joe.  Brainy Joe of the callipers and graph paper picks an obviously sub-form player.  Not one of them either - a few.

Why?  Joe on becoming an Irish citizen has also become a clichéd eejit to boot?  Or has Bowe shown much in training that Joe keeps hidden?  Why would anyone choose Bowe over Trimble?  I have to believe there is more or Joe has lost the balls that Bowe allegedly can't catch.

[GunsGerms]

Why would anyone choose Bowe over Trimble?

Because Bowe is one of Ireland best ever wingers probably. Yes Trimble's form was much better but Bowe on form is better than everyone as demonstrated by his 28 international tries and 5 Lions caps accross two tours.

What other Ireland winger has bigger credentials? None is answer so it should not be such a shock that Bowe has been included.

Bowe will hit form for the big games, he nearly always does.

[GunsGerms]

Class is permanent Form is temporary - Is Tommy bucking the trend and going the same way as Dwayne Peel. I could not believe that was TB trying to tackle the England winger, couldn't believe my eyes actually

Bowe would have nailed May if it was a world cup semi. His defending in big games is nearly always on point.

[SecretFly]

The World Cup doesn't take place in the past Guns. If it did we might choose to bring BOD, Hickey and Horgan.

[GunsGerms]

The World Cup doesn't take place in the past Guns.  If it did we might choose to bring BOD, Hickey and Horgan.

No we wouldnt because they have already retired. Bowe is only 31 and still at the peak of his powers. All the others are 36 or over and no longer playing.

Rugby fans are so fickle. Bowe doesnt need to prove a thing but I have no doubt he will prove the doubters wrong.

[SecretFly]

It's not remotely about being 'fickle'.

I personally think that if Joe is picking him its because Joe knows what's going down in the background. So Bowe is there still on merit (I Hope!).

He ISN'T there on current Public form... I don't care how you argue around the issue; if you observe rugby (and you of course do) you'd have to admit his form is well down on what is required from a wing going to the WC - particularly a wing of his high standards of the past.

So the disparity exists, Bowe keeps under-performing - to me he makes two or three errors for every good solid moment - yet Joe keeps picking him. There is something in that but for now, on evidence, Bowe is way below his best and technically that suggests no player has a right to be on the plane by virtue of past greatness. They must prove they deserve to be. Bowe must be proving things behind the scenes.

[rodders]

Well well well....I go away for a few weeks to find that, apart from leaving out Andy Trimble (who'll come in for Earls or Fitz at some point no doubt), Ireland's preparation is nigh on perfect.

4 games, no serious injuries - close enough in all games to have won but with plenty to work on as the players taper off on their preseason training and move towards peaking in a few weeks.

In Joe (and Bowe) we trust .

[GunsGerms]

It's not remotely about being 'fickle'.

I personally think that if Joe is picking him its because Joe knows what's going down in the background.  So Bowe is there still on merit (I Hope!).

He ISN'T there on current Public form...  I don't care how you argue around the issue; if you observe rugby (and you of course do) you'd have to admit his form is well down on what is required from a wing going to the WC - particularly a wing of his high standards of the past.

So the disparity exists, Bowe keeps under-performing - to me he makes two or three errors for every good solid moment - yet Joe keeps picking him.  There is something in that but for now, on evidence, Bowe is way below his best and technically that suggests no player has a right to be on the plane by virtue of past greatness.  They must prove they deserve to be.  Bowe must be proving things behind the scenes.

You dont pick players solely on form for World Cups. That would be ridiculous. You pick a the best squad for whatever plan or mix you want. Generally, world cup winning teams tend to be the most experienced squad in the tournament. England in '03, SA in 07 and NZ in '11 all full of experienced pros, just like Bowe.

In '03 Dallaglio was off form an injured going into the WC. He had hardly played a game in the group stages and yet in the latter stages his class shone through.

John Smit similarly in '07 wasnt exactly a form player but IMO he was really the glue behind the SA teams run to the final. There are loads of examples.

In '11 Stephen Donald held his nerve to kick the winning penalty in the WC despite not exactly being a form player either.

[GunsGerms]

Well well well....I go away for a few weeks to find that, apart from leaving out Andy Trimble (who'll come in for Earls or Fitz at some point no doubt), Ireland's preparation is nigh on perfect.

4 games, no serious injuries - close enough in all games to have won but with plenty to work on as the players taper off on their preseason training and move towards peaking in a few weeks.  

In Joe (and Bowe) we trust .

Thats the spirit Rodders. Im with you on that.

[lostinwales]

But those are both forwards. Dallaglio in particular completely rebuilt his game after serious knee injuries killed the pace that made him a decent 7 when he first player internationals. I think wingers suffer more from the ravages of time than most positions as pace is so important for them and so sensitive to injury and general wear and tear. (I won't say age because sprinters in athletics can have long careers). The best can, to a degree, substitute speed of mind and 'trickyness' for pace but it doesn't make their game any easier.

I'll also predict that there will be a few more players saying May was 'lucky' when he makes breaks or scores in the next few weeks. I think he's gonna make quite an impact this RWC

[rodders]

Class is permanent Form is temporary - Is Tommy bucking the trend and going the same way as Dwayne Peel. I could not believe that was TB trying to tackle the England winger, couldn't believe my eyes actually

Bowe would have nailed May if it was a world cup semi. His defending in big games is nearly always on point.

Spot on - Bowe and some of the players, including Sexton are further behind in their training - that's why Sexton was cramping. Others like Earls, Dave Kearney, Henderson, Zebo are way further on.

Bowe would have been training heavy during the week and wouldn't be match ready the way May was after the week off. Toner and Best were way off too.

Schmidt said it after the match that some players aren't fully fit and that they are gambling to peak later.

I think we'll see a totally different Bowe and Ireland in a few weeks. Schmidt won't be happy with some of the performances but they won't be worried about the results at all.

If I were England I'd be worried that Ireland pulled it back to 15-13 and but for falling away at 70 min could have won.

[Notch]

Bowe will hit form for the big games, he nearly always does.

Apart from in his last 10 internationals or so. I'm a Bowe fan, I always have been, but if Saint Richie or Dan Carter had a decline in form over the past couple of years like he has the All Blacks would waste no time whatsoever in going out with the old and in with the new. We have to stop giving caps on reputation and pick the best 15 players. It's not this poor performance in isolation. He's been indifferent without being bad for Ulster and last season for Ireland.

It's not like Bowe offers something Trimble doesn't. They've always been players with similar amounts of talent. One peaked earlier in his career and the other is peaking now.

[SecretFly]

It's not remotely about being 'fickle'.

I personally think that if Joe is picking him its because Joe knows what's going down in the background.  So Bowe is there still on merit (I Hope!).

He ISN'T there on current Public form...  I don't care how you argue around the issue; if you observe rugby (and you of course do) you'd have to admit his form is well down on what is required from a wing going to the WC - particularly a wing of his high standards of the past.

So the disparity exists, Bowe keeps under-performing - to me he makes two or three errors for every good solid moment - yet Joe keeps picking him.  There is something in that but for now, on evidence, Bowe is way below his best and technically that suggests no player has a right to be on the plane by virtue of past greatness.  They must prove they deserve to be.  Bowe must be proving things behind the scenes.

You dont pick players solely on form for World Cups. That would be ridiculous.  

I've been waiting for about 2 years now for Bowe to prove to me that his form has gone up or is going up again.  On evidence, I personally wouldn't trust him.  I hope he's ready to prove the doubters wrong.  He'll need to be good enough to do so to get us far in this WC.  These teams are now faster and stronger, and play a much smarter tighter game designed to find mismatches at pace and for consistent periods through 80 minutes.  So I hope Bowe proves me wrong.  I need him to.

He and Kearney have been for me consistently the most disappointing players over the last year or so for Ireland.  Their celebrated pasts demands that they reach those levels because if they don't we're on a back foot whilst they still get picked.  We don't have that luxury.  
Those two Must perform.  Others around them are still trying to create reputations and will suffer from errors made in the attempt.  Those two need to prove their credentials and lead by example.

[BamBam]

Class is permanent Form is temporary - Is Tommy bucking the trend and going the same way as Dwayne Peel. I could not believe that was TB trying to tackle the England winger, couldn't believe my eyes actually

Bowe would have nailed May if it was a world cup semi. His defending in big games is nearly always on point.

Spot on - Bowe and some of the players, including Sexton are further behind in their training - that's why Sexton was cramping. Others like Earls, Dave Kearney, Henderson, Zebo are way further on.

Bowe would have been training heavy during the week and wouldn't be match ready the way May was after the week off. Toner and Best were way off too.

Schmidt said it after the match that some players aren't fully fit and that they are gambling to peak later.

I think we'll see a totally different Bowe and Ireland in a few weeks. Schmidt won't be happy with some of the performances but they won't be worried about the results at all.

If I were England I'd be worried that Ireland pulled it back to 15-13 and but for falling away at 70 min could have won.

I think you chaps are going through what we were after the game against France, result was close but seemed second best for a fair portion of the game.

I was one of those who thought the England side was much better than they had showed that day, and that they would improve massively, especially once all the stories about them still going through heavy fitness work leading up to the game came out.

I'm very sure that Ireland will be at full blast come the Italy and France games, and can't see you not winning the pool in all honesty.

Re the bit in bold, think our finishing was the main issue, but as someone wiser than me said, its better to have a problem in finishing chances rather than not creating them in the first place!

[GunsGerms]

But those are both forwards. Dallaglio in particular completely rebuilt his game after serious knee injuries killed the pace that made him a decent 7 when he first player internationals. I think wingers suffer more from the ravages of time than most positions as pace is so important for them and so sensitive to injury and general wear and tear. (I won't say age because sprinters in athletics can have long careers). The best can, to a degree, substitute speed of mind and 'trickyness' for pace but it doesn't make their game any easier.

I'll also predict that there will be a few more players saying May was 'lucky' when he makes breaks or scores in the next few weeks. I think he's gonna make quite an impact this RWC

Bowe has never been fast so pace isnt as much a consideration for him as other wingers. Also May wasnt lucky but Bowe wouldnt miss at tackle like that in a big game. He fell off the tackle which isnt like him.

[rodders]

Guess you haven't been watching St Ritchie or Desperate Dan much over the last few seasons. They've had some really bad dips in form but have been retained as the ABs are peaking for the RWC.

Carter was told to buck up his ideas by Hanson and play flatter to the gainline recently. Definitley not a form pick and Ritchie was blown away by Pocock in the RC.

Both are picked because they will deliver in the big games at the business end of the RWC even if not as consistent as they used to be.

[GunsGerms]

I've been waiting for about 2 years now for Bowe to prove to me that his form has gone up or is going up again.  On evidence, I personally wouldn't trust him.  I hope he's ready to prove the doubters wrong.  He'll need to be good enough to do so to get us far in this WC.  These teams are now faster and stronger, and play a much smarter tighter game designed to find mismatches at pace and for consistent periods through 80 minutes.  So I hope Bowe proves me wrong.  I need him to.

He and Kearney have been for me consistently the most disappointing players over the last year or so for Ireland.  Their celebrated pasts demands that they reach those levels because if they don't we're on a back foot whilst they still get picked.  We don't have that luxury.  
Those two Must perform.  Others around them are still trying to create reputations and will suffer from errors made in the attempt.  Those two need to prove their credentials and lead by example.

Bowe has been excellent in both the last two November series. You have a short memory. He was our only winger to play all six nations games this year and probably marginally our best winger. Trimble missed all games through injury.

[GunsGerms]

Guess you haven't been watching St Ritchie or Desperate Dan much over the last few seasons. They've had some really bad dips in form but have been retained as the ABs are peaking for the RWC.

Carter was told to buck up his ideas by Hanson and play flatter to the gainline recently. Definitley not a form pick and Ritchie was blown away by Pocock in the RC.

Both are picked because they will deliver in the big games at the business end of the RWC even if not as consistent as they used to be.

Exactly.

[GunsGerms]

Bowe will hit form for the big games, he nearly always does.

Apart from in his last 10 internationals or so. I'm a Bowe fan, I always have been, but if Saint Richie or Dan Carter had a decline in form over the past couple of years like he has the All Blacks would waste no time whatsoever in going out with the old and in with the new. We have to stop giving caps on reputation and pick the best 15 players. It's not this poor performance in isolation. He's been indifferent without being bad for Ulster and last season for Ireland.

It's not like Bowe offers something Trimble doesn't. They've always been players with similar amounts of talent. One peaked earlier in his career and the other is peaking now.

Massive exageration there.

[SecretFly]

I haven't a short memory. You have a selective one. I see errors all through his game. I see a percentage of good, offset by too much iffy stuff. You seem to only see the good.

We'll see. I hope he has a stormer of a WC. But it'll be a welcome return to form not a continuation of any form already on display over the last few seasons.

We'll agree to disagree.

[rodders]

Just to clarify - given the choice I'd have taken Trimble ahead of Bowe but I'm convinced Joe wouldn't have picked Bowe if last Saturday was representative of where he was at or expected to be come the latter group games.

There were rumors flying around at how poor he was in training so I believe he's not fully fit, but expected to be in a few weeks,

Trimble and Bowe were unlikely to both go given they are both right sided players and Dave Kearney showed he's worth his spot, with him and Earls able to play left and right that left one of them surplus.

I would have left out Fitzgerald personally but then he covers a few positions and can do a job at center against the weaker teams.

[Notch]

Guess you haven't been watching St Ritchie or Desperate Dan much over the last few seasons. They've had some really bad dips in form but have been retained as the ABs are peaking for the RWC.

The difference is, if Carter hadn't sorted his form out he wouldn't be selected. He actually had dropped back to being second-choice behind Cruden at those points. McCaw has also been managed very carefully by the NZRU and peaks at certain points, but unlike Bowe he's an inspiring leader. It's much the same as we wouldn't drop O'Connell just because he was a bit off-form when you consider the impact having him in the dressing room and in training has.

Guns- when is the last time Bowe really profoundly influenced a game for Ireland? When at his best for Ulster he had more influence than any other player on the pitch even though he was furthest from the action. Of late, he's been a sniper. Average in the game, not really getting involved, then he gets one chance, runs one fantastic line and he's under the posts. For I think as far as the last five years he's been a player who has drifted through games only to strike at a moments notice and change the game. That is extremely valuable. But those moments are getting less and less frequent. It's something we didn't see at all in the Six Nations, last time we saw it was his intercept against Australia and he was tensing up because he worried he wouldn't have the pace.

Let's be clear, I don't think Bowe should be discarded or written off or retired. He has the potential to return to being a good test winger even if he has lost a bit of pace- his intelligence in attack can help him compensate. He has a lot of work to do; right now Gilroys footwork and pace are useful to Ulster on the counter-attack and Trimbles aggression and physicality are essential to us in defence and attack so he could be hard-up for game time when he gets back from the RWC. But he has a chance to make the Ulster team if he improves his form and if he does that he'll be in the international reckoning too. It's just that selecting him for this World Cup was questionable, as it is with Fitzgerald, given the quality of players left at home. Trimble has always been a more all-action player, likely to get more involved in phase play and stamp his mark on the game but Bowe has had his ability to come from nowhere to score tries. Now the tries are drying up for Bowe and he does look a bit slower and less sharp there's not much advantage in picking him over Trimble

[rodders]

Agree with that assessment  - but would also say that Bowe generally is very solid defensively and under the high ball, positionally he is very good and does a lot off the ball.

His work rate has never been up there with Trimbles and for Ulster at least Trimble has more influence on the game.

Bowes track record of big match games is unmatched though by anyone in the Irish team  -he hasn't been the same over the past few seasons and has been injured quite a bit.

I just don't believe he would be picked if not up to it anymore. He had a very good autumn and a decent 6N - he hasn't looked like he did circa 2008-2011 or as good as Trimble last year but wouldn't write him off having a good tournament.

[GunsGerms]

Guns- when is the last time Bowe really profoundly influenced a game for Ireland? When at his best for Ulster he had more influence than any other player on the pitch even though he was furthest from the action. Of late, he's been a sniper. Average in the game, not really getting involved, then he gets one chance, runs one fantastic line and he's under the posts. For I think as far as the last five years he's been a player who has drifted through games only to strike at a moments notice and change the game. That is extremely valuable. But those moments are getting less and less frequent. It's something we didn't see at all in the Six Nations, last time we saw it was his intercept against Australia and he was tensing up because he worried he wouldn't have the pace.

When was the last time anyone other than the usuals profoundly influenced a game for Ireland. No backs other than Sexton and Murray on occasion shone for Ireland in the 6 nations. In the November internationals Bowe scored tries against SA and Australia and played very well in both games.

Bowe was also outstanding v New Zealand the November series before especially in defense.

It seems whenever certain top Irish players like Heaslip, Kearney or Bowe arent winning man of the match awards they are written off completely. For some players even if they arent on top form they are still better than a lot of their peers.

[Notch]

I don't think you can reasonably read what I have said and accuse me of writing anyone off completely. Even in other positions Bowes level of performance would be enough to secure him a first team spot but there just happens to be a glut of very good players on the wing, many in better form. Players like Heaslip and Kearney have had dips too but we've never had fullbacks or number 8s as good as some of the other wingers we have breathing down their necks.

[GunsGerms]

I don't think you can reasonably read what I have said and accuse me of writing anyone off completely. Even in other positions Bowes level of performance would be enough to secure him a first team spot but there just happens to be a glut of very good players on the wing, many in better form. Players like Heaslip and Kearney have had dips too but we've never had fullbacks or number 8s as good as some of the other wingers we have breathing down their necks.

I disagree. He is certainly a much better player than the picture you are painting of him.

Trimble has played 1 game for Ireland since the summer tour last year which was a dead rubber against a bunch of uncapped Welsh players. Bowe has played 9 internationals in that time. I think that is the difference and thats the main reason Bowe is going over Trimble.

Both are really good players but other than Trimble who should have gone ahead of Bowe?

[thebandwagonsociety]

Very worried about Bowe, got completely gassed a number of times and seemed eager to try and jump inside and cut out a ball because he knew he couldn't stop his opponent getting around him.

D Kearney is nothing better than reliable and consistent. Having him in the midst of our plethora of winger depth shows how mediocre that depth truly is.

Zebo was let down by the rest of the backline on occasion, Rob is under serious threat now for his starting place (and Rob isn't a bench option).

They have to show some killer instinct soon, even if it is trialling some plays during games. You can't just execute attacking flair straight from the training pitch into a crunch game with France or Italy without actual match practice.

Sexton, SOB, POM, POC, Best, Bowe were all in self-preservation mode against England and each almost picked up knocks while trying to stay out of the way.

Ross was carrying the ball ffs. Ross runs at the same slow pace every game for the last forever. If he is getting the ball and taking it on, it means the whole team is 15-20% off pace.

I've usually been a nervous excitement going into Ireland games recently, but I have to admit I'm starting to have serious concerns that there are too many things that need to 'click' all at once.

[rodders]

I don't think there is much to fix and after Saturday am convinced we will make the final, and maybe even win it.

[GunsGerms]

Very worried about Bowe, got completely gassed a number of times and seemed eager to try and jump inside and cut out a ball because he knew he couldn't stop his opponent getting around him.

D Kearney is nothing better than reliable and consistent.  Having him in the midst of our plethora of winger depth shows how mediocre that depth truly is.

Zebo was let down by the rest of the backline on occasion, Rob is under serious threat now for his starting place (and Rob isn't a bench option).

They have to show some killer instinct soon, even if it is trialling some plays during games.  You can't just execute attacking flair straight from the training pitch into a crunch game with France or Italy without actual match practice.

Sexton, SOB, POM, POC, Best, Bowe were all in self-preservation mode against England and each almost picked up knocks while trying to stay out of the way.

Ross was carrying the ball ffs.  Ross runs at the same slow pace every game for the last forever.  If he is getting the ball and taking it on, it means the whole team is 15-20% off pace.

I've usually been a nervous excitement going into Ireland games recently, but I have to admit I'm starting to have serious concerns that there are too many things that need to 'click' all at once.

Zebo let himself down on occasion. May's try he couldnt stop him and also lost the aerial battle on the other wing for Watson's try. Cant blame his own performance on his team mates. What a load of nonsense.

Unbelieve the ignorance re Dave Kearney. He has been our best back for two games in a row and probably one of our most acomplished backs in terms of having a full set of skills. At this stage he has been an integral player in Heineken cup and six nations winning teams and yet people still doubt him. Its bizarre.

[marty2086]

Zebo let himself down on occasion. May's try he couldnt stop him and also lost the aerial battle on the other wing for Watson's try. Cant blame his own performance on his team mates. What a load of nonsense.

Unbelieve the ignorance re Dave Kearney. He has been our best back for two games in a row and probably one of our most acomplished backs in terms of having a full set of skills. At this stage he has been an integral player in Heineken cup and six nations winning teams and yet people still doubt him. Its bizarre.

I was one of Kearneys biggest doubters but over the last two years hes been as consistent as anyone in a green jersey he may not make breaks like Zebo but he does make yards, doesn't turn the ball over and is usually on the shoulder if someone does make a break plus puts in a shift in defence

Zebo didn't cover himself in glory against England but hard to blame him for the Watson try, if he was wider England could have got inside him but he had to come in and that allowed Watson the jump on him that very few could have dealt with

[SecretFly]

Unbelieve the ignorance re Dave Kearney. He has been our best back for two games in a row and probably one of our most acomplished backs in terms of having a full set of skills. At this stage he has been an integral player in Heineken cup and six nations winning teams and yet people still doubt him. Its bizarre.

On all that, we agree. Daverage is becoming a title similar to Ladyboys. His fans will one day be chanting it with pride. Volte Face! Viva Daverage!

[rodders]

People forget Daverage was Schmidt's first choice wing in Autumn 2013 before he got injured.

Easily as talented as Zebede or Gilroy imo and by all accounts has blown everyone away in preseason.

[GunsGerms]

Zebo let himself down on occasion. May's try he couldnt stop him and also lost the aerial battle on the other wing for Watson's try. Cant blame his own performance on his team mates. What a load of nonsense.

Unbelieve the ignorance re Dave Kearney. He has been our best back for two games in a row and probably one of our most acomplished backs in terms of having a full set of skills. At this stage he has been an integral player in Heineken cup and six nations winning teams and yet people still doubt him. Its bizarre.

I was one of Kearneys biggest doubters but over the last two years hes been as consistent as anyone in a green jersey he may not make breaks like Zebo but he does make yards, doesn't turn the ball over and is usually on the shoulder if someone does make a break plus puts in a shift in defence

Zebo didn't cover himself in glory against England but hard to blame him for the Watson try, if he was wider England could have got inside him but he had to come in and that allowed Watson the jump on him that very few could have dealt with

Kearney makes justs as many breaks if not more as Simon Zero (the amount of beaks he made in the 6 nations). Id say Bowe makes more breaks than both of them.

If I was playing with Zebo I wouldnt exactly "blame him" for Watsons try but I would be confident that Rob Kearney would have stopped it.

[eirebilly]

The Trimble / Bowe selection is a tricky one in my mind. Trimble for me is currently the better player but Bowe is one of the all time Ireland greats.

I felt for Bowe on Saturday as he looked to me to be a man desperately trying to prove his inclusion was the right choice and maybe he tried a little too hard. Once he has settled, he may be more comfortable and perform better. I personally would have still selected Trimble over him though.

I am not sure anyone should really blame Zebo for the Watson try, he had to be infield in case the ball went through the hands and the try was simply and exceptional kick by Ford combined with exceptional timing and jumping from Watson. You get those every now and then.

Dave Kearney will be like a rock to move from the wing, he has been outstanding in recent months and he has certainly proved me wrong so good luck to him.

[profitius]

EOS on downtheblindside podcast this week talking about 2007 world cup.

http://downtheblindside.com/rugby-world-cup-episode-6/

[rodders]

EOS on downtheblindside podcast this week talking about 2007 world cup.

http://downtheblindside.com/rugby-world-cup-episode-6/

Oh gees that's all we need!

[GunsGerms]

The Trimble / Bowe selection is a tricky one in my mind. Trimble for me is currently the better player but Bowe is one of the all time Ireland greats.

I felt for Bowe on Saturday as he looked to me to be a man desperately trying to prove his inclusion was the right choice and maybe he tried a little too hard. Once he has settled, he may be more comfortable and perform better. I personally would have still selected Trimble over him though.

I am not sure anyone should really blame Zebo for the Watson try, he had to be infield in case the ball went through the hands and the try was simply and exceptional kick by Ford combined with exceptional timing and jumping from Watson. You get those every now and then.

Dave Kearney will be like a rock to move from the wing, he has been outstanding in recent months and he has certainly proved me wrong so good luck to him.

I wouldnt necessarly blame him as he did try but it does indicate to me he isnt as good a full back as Kearney would I suspect would have stopped the try.

[Marshes]

The Trimble / Bowe selection is a tricky one in my mind. Trimble for me is currently the better player but Bowe is one of the all time Ireland greats.

I felt for Bowe on Saturday as he looked to me to be a man desperately trying to prove his inclusion was the right choice and maybe he tried a little too hard. Once he has settled, he may be more comfortable and perform better. I personally would have still selected Trimble over him though.

I am not sure anyone should really blame Zebo for the Watson try, he had to be infield in case the ball went through the hands and the try was simply and exceptional kick by Ford combined with exceptional timing and jumping from Watson. You get those every now and then.

Dave Kearney will be like a rock to move from the wing, he has been outstanding in recent months and he has certainly proved me wrong so good luck to him.

I wouldnt necessarly blame him as he did try but it does indicate to me he isnt as good a full back as Kearney would I suspect would have stopped the try.

I think Zebo does need to work on his positioning, but I don't think Kearney would have got over there in time either in that instance. Good to see some pressure on his position for a change though, might keep him honest!

I would have selected Trimble over Bowe too, but both over Luke Fitzgerald.

[Sin é]

The Trimble / Bowe selection is a tricky one in my mind. Trimble for me is currently the better player but Bowe is one of the all time Ireland greats.

I felt for Bowe on Saturday as he looked to me to be a man desperately trying to prove his inclusion was the right choice and maybe he tried a little too hard. Once he has settled, he may be more comfortable and perform better. I personally would have still selected Trimble over him though.

I am not sure anyone should really blame Zebo for the Watson try, he had to be infield in case the ball went through the hands and the try was simply and exceptional kick by Ford combined with exceptional timing and jumping from Watson. You get those every now and then.

Dave Kearney will be like a rock to move from the wing, he has been outstanding in recent months and he has certainly proved me wrong so good luck to him.

I wouldnt necessarly blame him as he did try but it does indicate to me he isnt as good a full back as Kearney would I suspect would have stopped the try.

You seriously believe that?

Kearney is one of the worst defenders in the Ireland team.

I think Conor Murray's covering defence was really missed in the game overall.

[GunsGerms]

Haha, Sin you are always good for a laugh. Kearney is superior in the air than Zebo and is probably the best aerial fielder of the ball in world rugby possibly along side Folau. So yes I do believe that Kearney stood a better chance of stopping that attack as he has done innumerable times for Ireland in the past.

[ME-109]

The only think Rob Kearnage needs to learn is how to tackle.....he does a good impression of Hugo MacNeil as last man standing (or falling over).

[GunsGerms]

2012 European player of the year award, 3 heineken cup medals, 3 six nations medals and two Lions tours says you don't know what you are talking about Dod.

[Notch]

I disagree. He is certainly a much better player than the picture you are painting of him.

I don't want to paint him as a bad player- he isn't, he's a good player. His all-round game is usually good even if it wasn't against England, but it isn't better than the other very good wingers we have. Even guys like Gilroy and McFadden who weren't even being talked up as being part of the squad are excellent all-rounders. So unlike certain other positions in the squad if you're on the wing being good isn't necessarily good enough.

[eirebilly]

The Trimble / Bowe selection is a tricky one in my mind. Trimble for me is currently the better player but Bowe is one of the all time Ireland greats.

I felt for Bowe on Saturday as he looked to me to be a man desperately trying to prove his inclusion was the right choice and maybe he tried a little too hard. Once he has settled, he may be more comfortable and perform better. I personally would have still selected Trimble over him though.

I am not sure anyone should really blame Zebo for the Watson try, he had to be infield in case the ball went through the hands and the try was simply and exceptional kick by Ford combined with exceptional timing and jumping from Watson. You get those every now and then.

Dave Kearney will be like a rock to move from the wing, he has been outstanding in recent months and he has certainly proved me wrong so good luck to him.

I wouldnt necessarly blame him as he did try but it does indicate to me he isnt as good a full back as Kearney would I suspect would have stopped the try.

I would not say that Zebo is a better 15 than Kearney but i doubt that any 15 would have stopped that, it was simply sublime execution.

[ME-109]

2012 European player of the year award, 3 heineken cup medals, 3 six nations medals and two Lions tours says you don't know what you are talking about Dod.

Still a poor last man tackler. Listing honours shows a paucity of evidence otherwise.

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