Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[Golden]

Has Furlong ever played LH? Cant recall him ever lining up there for Leinster or underage.

I would have thought it was White that was covering both sides or did Schmidt indicate otherwise?

[the-goon]

Allegedly Trimble's toe flared up after the Edinburgh game.  Would explain things if true...

balls....

No just his toe, his balls appeared to be fine

Well played sir, well played

[Sin é]

Actually gutted for Trimble. Worked his way back into the squad after wilderness and scapegoating under Kidney, becomes a key player only for injury to strike at the wrong time, but he still should be in that squad if he is fit after the Ulster game. Joe can't use the lack of the lack of match practice excuse because Healy has even less. Without wishing injury on anyone I hope he does get his chance to come in.

Scapegoating my arse. Kidney brought him to the last World Cup. High balls and kicking were all the rage back then - two things which Trimble was (and still isn't) great at.

[Blanko]

Just logged on USA time. I'm a voyuer on here don't usually post but felt compelled.

To quote EG Marshall "this is too terrible"

Has Schmidt already signed a contract with the All Blacks?

A concussed Keith Earls? Seriously - against good opposition ? This can't be real. He can't be more anonymous than he is without a concussion.

Hanky ball player : Luke "Please stop running around" Fitzgerald ?

And Trimble gets sent home ?
And to top it all he takes Daverage?

I'm so disappointed with these selections.

[Blanko]

Only thing that remotely makes sense is that he's going to use Earls and Fitzgerald against Canada Romania and maybe Italy where they can shine against weakness.

[George Carlin]

If anyone fancies taking a break from trying decide whether Earls or Payne is better at centre:
https://www.606v2.com/t60322-edinburgh-v-leinster-4-september

[Pete330v2]

Actually gutted for Trimble. Worked his way back into the squad after wilderness and scapegoating under Kidney, becomes a key player only for injury to strike at the wrong time, but he still should be in that squad if he is fit after the Ulster game. Joe can't use the lack of the lack of match practice excuse because Healy has even less. Without wishing injury on anyone I hope he does get his chance to come in.

Scapegoating my arse. Kidney brought him to the last World Cup. High balls and kicking were all the rage back then - two things which Trimble was (and still isn't) great at.

Kidney insisted on playing Trimble on the left wing despite waffling on about how playing a natural 14 at 11 compromised their game. He shunted Trimble to 11 and played McFadden at 11 and the mind boggled and boggled and continued to boggle until Kidney was just a memory.
The fact that Dave Kearney (although you could argue he's look in cracking form) and Lukey Fitz (whom you couldn't argue is in good form) are on the squad while Trimble (who has been the class act at 14 for some time) stays at home. Ulster's gain is another incarnation of Angry Andy with something to prove.

[Notch]

If anyone fancies taking a break from trying decide whether Earls or Payne is better at centre:
https://www.606v2.com/t60322-edinburgh-v-leinster-4-september

Payne.

[Sin é]

Actually gutted for Trimble. Worked his way back into the squad after wilderness and scapegoating under Kidney, becomes a key player only for injury to strike at the wrong time, but he still should be in that squad if he is fit after the Ulster game. Joe can't use the lack of the lack of match practice excuse because Healy has even less. Without wishing injury on anyone I hope he does get his chance to come in.

Scapegoating my arse. Kidney brought him to the last World Cup. High balls and kicking were all the rage back then - two things which Trimble was (and still isn't) great at.

Kidney insisted on playing Trimble on the left wing despite waffling on about how playing a natural 14 at 11 compromised their game. He shunted Trimble to 11 and played McFadden at 11 and the mind boggled and boggled and continued to boggle until Kidney was just a memory.
The fact that Dave Kearney (although you could argue he's look in cracking form) and Lukey Fitz (whom you couldn't argue is in good form) are on the squad while Trimble (who has been the class act at 14 for some time) stays at home. Ulster's gain is another incarnation of Angry Andy with something to prove.

None of that makes sense.

Ulster played Trimble at 11 because Tommy Bowe owned the 14 jersey for both Ulster & Ireland since 2008. At the last world cup, Keith Earls was first choice 11 and Bowe first choice 14 for most of when Kidney is in charge.

I'm no defender of Schmidt, but he is being consistent when he says he wants his players to have a decent amount of playing time under their belt in the last 12 months. He wouldn't use Keith Earls during the 6Ns because he said he was afraid he would break down again and he wanted him to have a good few games under his belt to prove his fitness. Andrew is in a similar situation - his first start and he did break down. He is better off staying and playing with Ulster to build some match fitness. I suspect we will see him at the world cup at some stage.

[Pete330v2]

Actually gutted for Trimble. Worked his way back into the squad after wilderness and scapegoating under Kidney, becomes a key player only for injury to strike at the wrong time, but he still should be in that squad if he is fit after the Ulster game. Joe can't use the lack of the lack of match practice excuse because Healy has even less. Without wishing injury on anyone I hope he does get his chance to come in.

Scapegoating my arse. Kidney brought him to the last World Cup. High balls and kicking were all the rage back then - two things which Trimble was (and still isn't) great at.

Kidney insisted on playing Trimble on the left wing despite waffling on about how playing a natural 14 at 11 compromised their game. He shunted Trimble to 11 and played McFadden at 11 and the mind boggled and boggled and continued to boggle until Kidney was just a memory.
The fact that Dave Kearney (although you could argue he's look in cracking form) and Lukey Fitz (whom you couldn't argue is in good form) are on the squad while Trimble (who has been the class act at 14 for some time) stays at home. Ulster's gain is another incarnation of Angry Andy with something to prove.

None of that makes sense.

Ulster played Trimble at 11 because Tommy Bowe owned the 14 jersey for both Ulster & Ireland since 2008. At the last world cup, Keith Earls was first choice 11 and Bowe first choice 14 for most of when Kidney is in charge.

I'm no defender of Schmidt, but he is being consistent when he says he wants his players to have a decent amount of playing time under their belt in the last 12 months. He wouldn't use Keith Earls during the 6Ns because he said he was afraid he would break down again and he wanted him to have a good few games under his belt to prove his fitness. Andrew is in a similar situation - his first start and he did break down. He is better off staying and playing with Ulster to build some match fitness. I suspect we will see him at the world cup at some stage.

OK let me simplify it for you.
Regardless of where Ulster played Trimble it didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that at 14 he was a top player whereas at 11 him abilities dropped off quite a bit. I never liked him being played at 11 for Ulster but there's not been a lot I'd agree with the Ulster coaches etc over the last number of seasons.

I still think Trimble will be brought in for the late pool / post-pool party when one of Fitz or Daverage K will recieve an injury shot from the grassy knoll. He's better than both put together after all

[the-goon]

Payne

that's 2-0

[Guest]

Make that 3 >Payne< Without question.

The only real question is who is best between Earls and Fitz? Hmmmmmmm

[Notch]

Earls

Look, at 13 it's like this

1) Payne
2) Henshaw
3) Earls
4) Cave
5) Bowe
6) Fitzgerald

[Marshes]

Earls

Look, at 13 it's like this

1) Payne
2) Henshaw
3) Earls
4) Cave
5) Bowe
6) Fitzgerald

I'd say Henshaw top of the list, but as he is also currently the best available 12 too, Payne for me ahead of Earls.

[eirebilly]

What i have worried about under JS's tenure is the seemingly negative approach to matches. It seems its all about getting a lead, containing and defending. This approach will not win a RWC in my opinion. Ireland have look very bereft of ideas when they have gone behind and i do not see that changing.

Sure Payne is the number one 13 right now but that is the incredibly safe option as he is unproven in attack at International level and i actually fear that he cant be.

For me, Cave 12 and Henshaw 13 is a very solid but attacking orientated centre pairing. That or Henshaw 12 and Earls 13.

Ireland need to win games rather than sneak leads and defend.

[eirebilly]

My ideal backline of the players in the squad (shame for Trimble as he deserved a place) would be:

9 Murray
10 Sexton
12 Cave
13 Henshaw
11 Zebo
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Thats a backline that can win matches.

[Notch]

I feel like that back line is probably worse in attack than if you just swapped Cave with Payne and moved Henshaw in one, seriously. At the most generous I can be, that back line is as good in attack. There's no world where it is an improvement.

Trust me, Cave is NOT as good an attacker as Payne. If we were talking about a Munster player and Payne maybe you could say I'm biased because I'm an Ulster fan. But my bias here is actually towards Cave who was an Ulster fans favourite when Payne was still dreaming of an All Blacks cap. If it was a Munster player maybe you could say I watch one player all the time but I don't watch the Munster guy the same so I don't have all the data to make a good judgment. But I watch both of these guys in every match for Ulster and I've seen all their Ireland performances. Initially I opposed Payne moving to 13 over Cave because I was biased towards the homegrown player but eventually I had to admit I was wrong and Cave was either going to have to move to accommodate him or be dropped. Now, having been on the anti-Payne at centre bandwagon only to be made to eat my words, I can't be more clear when I say Payne is the bigger threat.

You see, Payne is stronger and faster than Cave with every bit as much offloading and passing ability. Cave looks to have really worked on his physicality and is squeezing an extra yard or two out of contact. I'd say he's in the best shape of his career physically, but Payne is still going to break more tackles and make more yards. If we want to offload the ball, they can both do that. If we want to pass the ball, they can both do that. In terms of decision making ball in hand, I'd take Payne by a whisker. In terms of defence, I'd take Payne all day. Footwork, Cave by a whisker. Lines of running, Payne is more more dangerous than Cave running the outside arc, Cave slightly more of a threat picking lines through the middle. Outright pace, Payne is the quicker player. Overall it's a clear win for Payne.

Henshaw might be marginally better in attack one out, but not decisively so as to make accommodating him at 13 a priority over getting our two best centres on the park together.

The problem you have with Payne is you don't see his creative side because our tactics involve a lot of straight-line running and taking contact. But if we pick someone else, what makes you think we'll suddenly abandon those tactics? You'd be better off arguing Ireland should play a different style of rugby than quibble over selection because the way you want Ireland to play, the best players for it are already the first choices. It's the whole game plan you don't like not the players who are implementing it.

[Golden]

A few less "foreigners" in the squad. Schmidt and Strauss both became Irish citizens today

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-is-now-one-of-us-as-kiwi-becomes-a-100-certified-irishman/38120

[Guest]

The tables have turned. An Irishman will lead the All Blacks one day

[GunsGerms]

A few less "foreigners" in the squad. Schmidt and Strauss both became Irish citizens today

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-is-now-one-of-us-as-kiwi-becomes-a-100-certified-irishman/38120

Saw that. Great news. Best Irish coach ever.

[GunsGerms]

The tables have turned. An Irishman will lead the All Blacks one day

Not for the first time. Dave Gallagher. Sure an Irishman wrote the NZ anthem.

[Guest]

Earls

Look, at 13 it's like this

1) Payne
2) Henshaw
3) Earls
4) Cave
5) Bowe
10) Fitzgerald

Would agree with most of that, but I'm not convinced Earls is a better 13 than Cave. I don't think he his, although I'm happy to be proved wrong in the world cup.

[Guest]

The tables have turned. An Irishman will lead the All Blacks one day

Not for the first time. Dave Gallagher. Sure an Irishman wrote the NZ anthem.

First time in the professional era though.

It's official. The best coach in the world is an Irishman

[eirebilly]

I am sorry for having that opinion Notch and thank you very much for your lecture.

Please explain to me when Payne has looked anything other than a defensive block for Ireland? You seem to go on about this ability he has in attack and his offloading skills. You may see this at Ulster or maybe you even remember this when he was play 15. When, please when has Payne shown any attacking prowess at International level? I just dont see it.

The old 'Its tactics' doesnt wash with me as we have also been informed (by you and many others) that Schmidt encourages attacking play from his players... I just do not see Payne as anything other than a defensive centre designed to contain teams. He will not open them up.

Its not that i dont like Payne, which you continually and unjustly infer, its that i see him as more suited to 15.

[Guest]

I am sorry for having that opinion Notch and thank you very much for your lecture.

Please explain to me when Payne has looked anything other than a defensive block for Ireland? You seem to go on about this ability he has in attack and his offloading skills. You may see this at Ulster or maybe you even remember this when he was play 15. When, please when has Payne shown any attacking prowess at International level? I just dont see it.

The old 'Its tactics' doesnt wash with me as we have also been informed (by you and many others) that Schmidt encourages attacking play from his players... I just do not see Payne as anything other than a defensive centre designed to contain teams. He will not open them up.

Its not that i dont like Payne, which you continually and unjustly infer, its that i see him as more suited to 15.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Henshaw might be marginally better in attack one out, but not decisively so as to make accommodating him at 13 a priority over getting our two best centres on the park together.

That is actually very debatable. He is untried at international level there, so we don't really know, but so far we haven't actually seen the attacking brilliance that we know Henshaw is capable of in full effect and I fear we never will if we merely convert him to play at 12. He could certainly lighten up the Irish attack in a similar fashion to Jesse Kriel for South Africa and Jonathan Joseph for England. In fact these teams are not exactly known for their electric backline play in recent years, but it took a few new kids on the block to spice it up a little. We can't underestimate the importance of these players.

England are actually going into this World Cup with a completely untried centre partnership, South Africa are a similar story, De Allende is new to the team and of course Jesse Kriel for the games he starts.

[Notch]

I am sorry for having that opinion Notch and thank you very much for your lecture.

Please explain to me when Payne has looked anything other than a defensive block for Ireland? You seem to go on about this ability he has in attack and his offloading skills. You may see this at Ulster or maybe you even remember this when he was play 15. When, please when has Payne shown any attacking prowess at International level? I just dont see it.

The old 'Its tactics' doesnt wash with me as we have also been informed (by you and many others) that Schmidt encourages attacking play from his players... I just do not see Payne as anything other than a defensive centre designed to contain teams. He will not open them up.

Its not that i dont like Payne, which you continually and unjustly infer, its that i see him as more suited to 15.

Listen, you're going to tell me it's an opinion and I'm going to keep telling you my opinion is based on a lot more than yours and well... yours isn't right let's put it like that.

But tell me this; how do you say one player is unproven in attack for Ireland and then you advocate replacing him with a player in Cave who has actually never started a major test match for Ireland, be that in the Six Nations or in a World Cup or against one of the SH big three. How is he not also unproven in attack? You also say that Henshaw should move out one, to a position he has only started at once in a major test. So this can't be based on their form in major test matches because there simply isn't any. Whereas Payne is only judged by his form in those games. We know all of the above have certain qualities from watching them play at lots of different levels. But if you're going to champion Cave and Henshaw on the basis of their whole careers, you have to judge Payne by the same standards. But I don't need to hark back to his Ulster form, although I do think looking at the whole picture gives you a better

I don't think Schmidt does encourage attacking play in the way you seem to suggest, which seems to be concerned only and exclusively with the champagne stuff. I would point to any of the last five Six Nations games he featured in and ask you to find an occasion where Payne takes the ball into contact and a) gets turned over b) doesn't make yards c) doesn't present the ball well. Find a situation where he has to pass the ball and it doesn't find his man (I can think of one off the top of my head). And find a situation where he has the ball in his hand, and you can demonstrate that he makes the wrong decision.

Then you'll be actually arguing based on evidence and not just opinion; and moreover, I am 100% certain by the end of the exercise you will be willing to admit you are wrong because the evidence that he makes a net positive contribution to our attacking play is absolutely incontrovertible once you look at the games themselves in detail.

[eirebilly]

Not even bothering to read that Notch. You're right and i am wrong. Simples.

I am not even going to bother with such an arrogant person.

[Notch]

That is actually very debatable. He is untried at international level there, so we don't really know, but so far we haven't actually seen the attacking brilliance that we know Henshaw is capable of in full effect and I fear we never will if we merely convert him to play at 12. He could certainly lighten up the Irish attack in a similar fashion to Jesse Kriel for South Africa and Jonathan Joseph for England.

I actually completely agree with this, but I don't see it happening for him overnight and most importantly I don't see us changing our tactics to put the emphasis on first phase and second phase attack were clever plays can engineer the sort of opportunity those guys get to run at opposition defences with time and space.

I think so long as we continue to attack in multiple phases where we only go one or two passes out from the ruck he's mainly going to be getting the ball in similar situations whether he's 12 or 13.

[Notch]

Not even bothering to read that Notch. You're right and i am wrong. Simples.

I am not even going to bother with such an arrogant person.

Clearly you're not going to bother actually trying to construct an argument based on hard evidence, so whats the point in engaging?

[eirebilly]

Not even bothering to read that Notch. You're right and i am wrong. Simples.

I am not even going to bother with such an arrogant person.

Clearly you're not going to bother actually trying to construct an argument based on hard evidence, so whats the point in engaging?

I have stated my case. Hard facts eh, these are the same 'Hard Facts' you use when describing Paynes attacking ability at international... Yeah, proper facts those.

Anyways, i will actually debate further with people that are interested in discussing instead of arrogantly dismissing others opinions as clearly wrong as they dont match with yours.

[Notch]

Not even bothering to read that Notch. You're right and i am wrong. Simples.

I am not even going to bother with such an arrogant person.

Clearly you're not going to bother actually trying to construct an argument based on hard evidence, so whats the point in engaging?

I have stated my case. Hard facts eh, these are the same 'Hard Facts' you use when describing Paynes attacking ability at international... Yeah, proper facts those.

Anyways, i will actually debate further with people that are interested in discussing instead of arrogantly dismissing others opinions as clearly wrong as they dont match with yours.

My challenge to you to go through his games in the Six Nations and analyse the number of times he goes backwards in contact, loses possession, makes the wrong decision with the ball in hand etc. stands. If you can point to any evidence that he is guilty of any of those things, you prove your point. If you see a player who does the opposite, I do.

[ME-109]

A few less "foreigners" in the squad. Schmidt and Strauss both became Irish citizens today

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-is-now-one-of-us-as-kiwi-becomes-a-100-certified-irishman/38120

Saw that. Great news. Best Irish coach ever.

When he wins a GS or beats the ABs you could be right. We will know a lot more after the wc.

[Rory_Gallagher]

That is actually very debatable. He is untried at international level there, so we don't really know, but so far we haven't actually seen the attacking brilliance that we know Henshaw is capable of in full effect and I fear we never will if we merely convert him to play at 12. He could certainly lighten up the Irish attack in a similar fashion to Jesse Kriel for South Africa and Jonathan Joseph for England.

I actually completely agree with this, but I don't see it happening for him overnight and most importantly I don't see us changing our tactics to put the emphasis on first phase and second phase attack were clever plays can engineer the sort of opportunity those guys get to run at opposition defences with time and space.

I think so long as we continue to attack in multiple phases where we only go one or two passes out from the ruck he's mainly going to be getting the ball in similar situations whether he's 12 or 13.

That is true, and I still stand by what I said last week, I believe Payne is going to prove us all wrong yet again and be heavily involved in some clever back play that we may not have seen yet. Schmidt always had a few tricks up his sleeve at Leinster and some of the rehearsed moves were sublime, so I am hoping to see the same from Ireland and I expect Payne to be a key element.

After the RWC though, it is time to try some more options at 12 and see what Henshaw can do at 13.

[Notch]

Agreed Rory. I definitely see Henshaw as a bit of a stop gap option at 12 considering the fact that D'Arcy is past it and the new young talent isn't quite ready yet. But I would say if McCloskey and Olding continue getting some serious game time soon we'll have quality players available at 12 and it becomes pretty feasible to move Henshaw out.

I actually think Schmidt has played a blinder with how he's managed the centres. With D'Arcy and BOD retiring everyone thought it would be a disaster for us but he's actually turned what people expected to be a weakness into a strength with some clever selection. Everyone knows that 13 is the harder position to defend, so you have the more experienced Payne handling that while Henshaw serves his apprenticeship in the 12 jersey. Henshaw is less exposed at 12 but he's still learning all the skills he needs to be a top class international centre. They have a sort of Obi-Wan Kenobi-Luke Skywalker thing going on, with Henshaw learning a lot off Payne in every respect. I think the apprentice will definitely reach the point where he surpasses the master though.

Its only a matter of time before Henshaw moves to outside centre, I just don't agree it's the short term solution. I'm a massive Henshaw fan and I don't want to limit him, but I'm also patient enough to wait for the transition from 12 to 13 to happen naturally over the next few years.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Can't argue with any of that!

[RubyGuby]

Payne is Ireland's Brad Barritt

[eirebilly]

Not even bothering to read that Notch. You're right and i am wrong. Simples.

I am not even going to bother with such an arrogant person.

Clearly you're not going to bother actually trying to construct an argument based on hard evidence, so whats the point in engaging?

I have stated my case. Hard facts eh, these are the same 'Hard Facts' you use when describing Paynes attacking ability at international... Yeah, proper facts those.

Anyways, i will actually debate further with people that are interested in discussing instead of arrogantly dismissing others opinions as clearly wrong as they dont match with yours.

My challenge to you to go through his games in the Six Nations and analyse the number of times he goes backwards in contact, loses possession, makes the wrong decision with the ball in hand etc. stands. If you can point to any evidence that he is guilty of any of those things, you prove your point. If you see a player who does the opposite, I do.

Well quite simply you are again ignoring my point. I have never said that Payne was not a solid defender, he does things right. My point was that we have seen nothing offensively from him at International level. He has actually gone a complete match without 1 single offload...

You seem to big him up as if he is the best thing Ireland have and that he has no weakness'. Something that I completely disagree with. You claim that he is more experienced than Henshaw, in age alone but both have very similar experience at International level...

You seem completely incapable of seeing anything wrong with Payne and those that have a comment are simply dismissed as being wrong so I suggest you get off your high horse, tighten up and show others a little more respect than you do when in disagreement with you.

[Golden]

Presume the team is announced today?

[profitius]

I see Rhys Ruddock is nearing a return for Leinster. If he does then it could be a nice option if one of the backrows gets injured. Moore is also not too far away.

[GunsGerms]

A few less "foreigners" in the squad. Schmidt and Strauss both became Irish citizens today

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/joe-schmidt-is-now-one-of-us-as-kiwi-becomes-a-100-certified-irishman/38120

Saw that. Great news. Best Irish coach ever.

When he wins a GS or beats the ABs you could be right. We will know a lot more after the wc.

I think if we get to the semis he will have cemented his place as the greatest ever. If we win the six nations next year he will be come the greatest coach in the history of the six nations too.

[BamBam]

Any idea when Schmidt is naming the team for this weekend chaps?

[Notch]

Probably about 1.45 today. Thats when the teams for all the previous warm-ups have been announced. This is what the Irish Times think it will be;

Ireland possible team v England: R Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, O’Connell, O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip.
Replacements: Cronin, Furlong, White, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, D Kearney.

[Notch]

I have never said that Payne was not a solid defender, he does things right.

Everything I'm saying is about his attacking abilities, not his defence. You have a funny idea of what attacking is.

[BamBam]

That looks pretty much first choice to me other than Healy? Going to be one hell of a battle

[RubyGuby]

I'd like to see that team Notch, it would be a great match up - Proper Test match without the warm up bullshxt

[Notch]

I'd like to see that team Notch, it would be a great match up - Proper Test match without the warm up bullshxt

Getting close to the tournament it's important to get the first choice combinations working against quality opposition. The other danger we face would be if we don't select a strong team and then we aren't really tested enough against Canada and Romania.

But let's be real; it's still a warm-up game. We'll be focusing on basics and not showing our hand, and hoping not to pick up injuries. It's a step closer to full test match intensity but we're not there yet.

[GunsGerms]

Probably about 1.45 today. Thats when the teams for all the previous warm-ups have been announced. This is what the Irish Times think it will be;

Ireland possible team v England: R Kearney; Bowe, Payne, Henshaw, Zebo; Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, O’Connell, O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip.
Replacements: Cronin, Furlong, White, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, D Kearney.

Think thats pretty much what everyone expects at this point which Healy a possible switch for McGrath when fully fit.

[Pete330v2]

I think both England and Ireland will be going out with the same requirements and mindset for this game. Both need a decent, hard test as we all know the wrapping in cotton wool approach just doesn't work (poor Eddie O'Sullivan). Both will be wanting to get the basics right and the result, if a win is just an added bonus, if a defeat a timely reminder of your vunerabilities.

[SecretFly]

R Kearney needs to prove he's worth it.  He should play.
Bowe needs to prove he's more than an in-the-air flailer.  He needs to present his team with more confidence in him getting those balls he so often now does the finger ballet with and then drops.  He should play.
Payne should maybe be given the day off.
Henshaw should be let out on the town - down day
Zebo should be flown to Los Angeles to party with the blink boys of youf cultah
Sexton should still be on a beach somewhere being pampered by 20 IRFU minions.
Murray should be next to him.
McGrath.  Yeah, he can play.
Best - leave him on the farm to get things organised before his extended absence.
Ross - should be tranquillised and put in a floating tank to rest.  He's been slogged to death these last five or six years.
Toner - ballet lessons to handle better his high altitude limbs
O'Connell - should be given time to get his house sorted in France.
O'Mahony - anger management classes in reverse.  We need to stoke his fury engine now so that it'll be red hot come the WC
O'Brien - anger management classes the right way round.  He needs to be cool come the WC.  He heats too easily at times.  Temperature control issues.
Heaslip.  He should be in the same floating tank Ross is in (well, IRFU can't afford two of them, unlike NASAWRU.)

So, out of Notch's list I think about 3 of them should play.  This is a match too far in the warm-up circuit.  I fear injury.

[Sponsored content]