Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[RubyGuby]

Notch - whilst I know its a warm-up I just can't see players holding back that much when they feel the intensity of the match - For me in theory its a warm up but in practice I think this will be a full blooded test match - Maybe barring one or two yet to be seen moves - Fingers crossed no injuries for both teams

[Notch]

Yeah, I don't think it's so much the players holding back as it is the coaches holding back tactically. It should be pretty close to a full-blooded test match albeit with more rustiness on show, although at this point you hope players are beginning to get it out of their system.

[GunsGerms]

Ireland (v England):

15. Simon Zebo
14. Tommy Bowe
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Dave Kearney
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Paul O’Connell (captain)
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Sean O’Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss
17. Tadhg Furlong
18. Nathan White
19. Donnacha Ryan
20. Chris Henry
21. Eoin Reddan
22. Ian Madigan
23. Darren Cave

[kunu]

Nice to see a bit of pressure on Rob Kearney

[eirebilly]

I have never said that Payne was not a solid defender, he does things right.

Everything I'm saying is about his attacking abilities, not his defence. You have a funny idea of what attacking is.

Once again Notch, you completely and utterly divert away from the point in an arrogant and dismissive manner. I will no longer engage in a debate with you

[eirebilly]

Nice to see a bit of pressure on Rob Kearney

Agree, he has not been in the best of form and has not produced what he is more than capable of producing. Zebo at 15 is an excellent option and has certainly relieved Schmidt of a decision about backup for 15 but at the same time cost his team mate Jones a place in the squad as had he not performed at 15, Jones would have been selected.

[RubyGuby]

Class is permanent form is temporary and Rob Kearney is class. As for the eulogising about Zebo at 15, whilst I can understand and respect the excitement I'd reserve judgement until he has had a few more outings at this position at international level. Great to be back for a few weeks debating with the likes of the legendary eirebilly

[SecretFly]

Class is permanent but only if it was genuine to begin with.  Some players have a year where everything clicks and it looks like a permanent class state.  But it ain't so when a measuring tool is brought out and you decide how many miles of their career they've been class in and how many they've travelled as road sweepers.

Kearney had a year or two when everything he touched turned to Gold.  But I think he's had longer time as a frustratingly under-form guy who just happened to have too little competition for his shirt.

Harsh reading but I think he's like Harrington.  When everything is going good, change your preparation, your training and your golf clubs to get even better and implode on the attempt.  He needs to clear his mind and allow himself to become much more dynamic again.  Stop over-thinking and playing safe.

[RubyGuby]

Now Harrington just had a "purple patch", now that's different to class which is a bit more sustainable of course but in the end even that eventually dissipates, just look at Priestland, he's not on a downward curve but more of a downward mineshaft

[SecretFly]

There you go.  I think Priestland was a simple Purple Patcher that the Welsh were obviously hoping was an Upward Curver.
Adam Jones was class that hit a downward curve.
Warburton is class that hits the odd cottonwool barrier now and again ..... to longevitise his career

[RubyGuby]

There you go.  I think Priestland was a simple Purple Patcher that the Welsh were obviously hoping was an Upward Curver.
Adam Jones was class that hit a downward curve.
Warburton is class that hits the odd cottonwool barrier now and again ..... to longevise his career

[thebandwagonsociety]

Class is permanent but only if it was genuine to begin with.  Some players have a year where everything clicks and it looks like a permanent class state.  But it ain't so when a measuring tool is brought out and you decide how many miles of their career they've been class in and how many they've travelled as road sweepers.

Kearney had a year or two when everything he touched turned to Gold.  But I think he's had longer time as a frustratingly under-form guy who just happened to have too little competition for his shirt.

Harsh reading but I think he's like Harrington.  When everything is going good, change your preparation, your training and your golf clubs to get even better and implode on the attempt.  He needs to clear his mind and allow himself to become much more dynamic again.  Stop over-thinking and playing safe.

Rob is the current player for en-vogue criticism. a lot of talk tends to be on the full-back joining attack, but their bread and butter is defensive reading of the game and being the safety net that allows the rest of the defense to function. And he is great at sheparding opponents, making the last tackle, and slowing down opposition enough for the scramble defense to get back and help shut down the play. Handling the high-ball is a given, we probably get attacked in that way less because the opposition know he's there.


And I'm not saying Zebo is useless or anything. You can like two players it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, before 606v2 decides to exagerate the above and completely overreact.

[SecretFly]

Well, I like to think I create Vogues of my own Bandwagon (as in trying not to be a sheep follower) And I think you'd find that Rob has been on my personal radar for a number of years now, quite a while before the chattering Journalist and social forum people felt courage enough to get round to it.

A player deserves credit when it's due and criticism when its pertinent.  A lot of our pale go-forward efforts lie in the inability of Kearney and others to hit the ground running with real pace and intention to evade.  Perhaps that's Joe's policy right now but this has been going on before Joe took over.

Kearney is most productive and most essential when actually deep in the opposition half and part of an intense attacking phase.  He's a much better attacker than a bread and butter defender - and his natural instinct skills around the try line shouldn't be squandered too much to this possible command from on-high to stay at home and mind the back door.  I don't think that command is all that strict to be honest, I feel Kearney simply finds it difficult to break out of his 'home' - the opposition keep him there, it's not his choice.

[RubyGuby]

I think you all might be underestimating or forgetting about the impact the loss of BOD and Darcy have had on Rob Kearney's play at international level. For me their departure has left him without that innate intuitive play where he could get involved alongside players he knew well. In losing this meta communication he's become a bit more hesitant to join in the offensive party




Feck that's a good post

[Notch]

Can't believe you used the term 'meta communication' Ruby. It's like you're a University Professor from Monday to Friday then on the weekends you're this guy

[RubyGuby]

I am an associate Professor at 2 Universities I'm afraid Notch so good call there - Its just that I'm from my beloved Valleys and rugby is in my veins etc.

[SecretFly]

Can't believe you used the term 'meta communication' Ruby. It's like you're a University Professor from Monday to Friday then on the weekends you're this guy

Post that pic to Chunky and tell him his problems all started with that kinda guy(????? - gal???)

[RubyGuby]

When I read your post and you said on the weekends your this guy I didn't relate it to the picture, that's hilarious. Highly offensive and unrepresentative but hilarious.

[SecretFly]

Come on Ruby..... whatdah we get whenever the auld camera scoots across Irish sporting fans in a crowd - the f**king Orange f**king beards and the f**king Belt Buckled f**King Top f**king Green f**king Hats!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the moral of the story is that the cliché always works

[RubyGuby]

Ok that's me but I now have contacts 24/7

[eirebilly]

I will say it again. Ireland will not progress past the 1/4 final stage that this RWC. They will not win their group over France.

This squad, although good is being made to play robotic, easily countered defensive rugby.
People know my views on Payne at 13, i stand by them as he is not International standard 13 and has zero attacking ability.
POM, as much as i love the guy to his bones, is unbalancing the Irish back row so should be seen only as an impact sub.
Henderson should start and Ireland should have Cave at 12 and Henshaw at 13 with Zebo and Dave Kearney (yes he has earnt it) wings.
This negative, constriction approach from Schmidt will not win the RWC or take Ireland far.

[SecretFly]

This negative, constriction approach from Schmidt will not win the RWC or take Ireland far.

True.  I've said this numerous times in the months of buildup and it remains true.  But then will Schmidt continue to play it when the chips are down?

That's the question nobody can know the answer to until the chips are down and we hit France or teams after the pools.

One thing you have to say is that Schmidt can't appear so dumb that he doesn't for himself know that change of tactics is required when your tactics have been found out.  He's smart enough to have played little or no 'rugby' over the last two seasons (certainly in comparison to our nearest rivals in Europe) and yet virtually cruised at some points to our two successive 6N.  
So he can't be dumb.  And we know for a fact he can coach a much more dynamic game, and knows why such a dynamic game is required as he often on many occasions dissects the theory and practicality of the opposition AND his own team often in pre-game interviews..... and he did a more succinct and clinical reading of England's strengths in advance of today's game than Lancaster himself might give.

So the man knows why teams work, and knows the dynamics of good rugby.  He's also on record as saying you have to constantly evolve the style to meet the challenges of people learning how you play.

So, how could a man who is on record as saying so much of a clinical nature on rugby and has such a good early International record and an enviable club one,  how could such a man overlook some of the obvious weaknesses that most observers now see in this Irish side?

I'd suggest he's not overlooking a damn thing and none of us know what his team will play like in big important World Cup games.  Again, he's the coach that has shown the least.  England were feeling gloomy only a few weeks ago when they lost to France.  Now they are World Beaters again.  Wales were down when they lost their first game against us.  Then they were back up, now they seem to be down again.   We lost to England.  We're down.  We lost by eight against a mightily dynamic England having been dominated the whole game?  That's either Schmidt not having a clue how to repair the machine or him still sitting on his spanner box until he wants to crank it up when it might actually win something.

[Marshes]

This negative, constriction approach from Schmidt will not win the RWC or take Ireland far.

True.  I've said this numerous times in the months of buildup and it remains true.  But then will Schmidt continue to play it when the chips are down?

That's the question nobody can know the answer to until the chips are down and we hit France or teams after the pools.

One thing you have to say is that Schmidt can't appear so dumb that he doesn't for himself know that change of tactics is required when your tactics have been found out.  He's smart enough to have played little or no 'rugby' over the last two seasons (certainly in comparison to our nearest rivals in Europe) and yet virtually cruised at some points to our two successive 6N.  
So he can't be dumb.  And we know for a fact he can coach a much more dynamic game, and knows why such a dynamic game is required as he often on many occasions dissects the theory and practicality of the opposition AND his own team often in pre-game interviews..... and he did a more succinct and clinical reading of England's strengths in advance of today's game than Lancaster himself might give.

So the man knows why teams work, and knows the dynamics of good rugby.  He's also on record as saying you have to constantly evolve the style to meet the challenges of people learning how you play.

So, how could a man who is on record as saying so much of a clinical nature on rugby and has such a good early International record and an enviable club one,  how could such a man overlook some of the obvious weaknesses that most observers now see in this Irish side?

I'd suggest he's not overlooking a damn thing and none of us know what his team will play like in big important World Cup games.  Again, he's the coach that has shown the least.  England were feeling gloomy only a few weeks ago when they lost to France.  Now they are World Beaters again.  Wales were down when they lost their first game against us.  Then they were back up, now they seem to be down again.   We lost to England.  We're down.  We lost by eight against a mightily dynamic England having been dominated the whole game?  That's either Schmidt not having a clue how to repair the machine or him still sitting on his spanner box until he wants to crank it up when it might actually win something.

I think it was more so that England themselves butcher a host of very good chances. Seriously I felt today probably should have been a lot worse. Our form has gone the opposite way it should.

I'm a big fan of Schmidt and the turnaround he has made in stopping what was utter rot and taking a very good squad to back to back championships (which I don't think were cruises at all). But in the warm-up games the tactics have almost been caricatures of what teams expect from Ireland. I really hope we are holding back everything to reveal "The Flying V" when it matters most in the big games. But can that be the case if we are not practising playing heads-up passing rugby in the warm-up games? Likely in the world cup the margins being smaller and more on the line, it becomes more rigid and more robotic.

Some of the recent decisions have a bit iffy, particularly leaving Trimble out, but I can't argue with results, and really hope the leash comes off when it comes to the group and beyond. I'll trust that the coaching team knows what they are doing. But at the minute we are at a point of being found out and coming up short with a plan B. One of Joe's characteristics with Leinster was responsiveness to the situation, but with Ireland when the plan A isn't working, the players just seem to try plan A harder.

I don't think Ireland are too far away from where they need to be going into the group, and Fly I think he is smart enough to recognise the gaps. Lucky we build up to France as we need time to address those gaps before the tail-end of the competition.

[SecretFly]

You say 'responsiveness to the situation' is what he was good at with Leinster.  You don't lose those skills or instincts.  And with Joe, they do seem to be very much instincts.  

So, you have to look at the dynamics of International Competition verse Leagues and HEC.  Very very different dynamics at play.  What Schmidt needed to do when he first became Ireland coach was stop the rot and then build rapidly because he didn't have a whole lot of time before what's coming (WC).
He started much later than Gatland.  He started later than Lancaster  And yet as he went about doing those two things, he rushed us to the top of Europe and up to 2nd in the World from where we were down at 9th.
You say the last two years weren't cruises.  I'd have to disagree, Marshes.  By 'cruising' I meant he's purposefully (whether due to the quality of player he feels he has or to try an off-set expectations) played through two 6N campaigns playing a very robust but basic defensive brand of rugby.  He's trusted it, he's planted obedience to it into the minds of the players.  There are times he might have panicked and tried to rush games (Leinster) but he stuck to his guns, natural attacking players were tied to their ruck duties instead and he grinded out victories over some very potent attacking sides in England (further down the line in development) and Wales (a century down the Gatland line and fully settled into His 'Method' )

I say that is cruising because it was stubbornly consistent to the overall development strategy, never panicked, kept drilling and kept grinding out those slim victories.

Now, where do we go?  Well, I don't know.  Nobody genuinely does..... and maybe that's exactly what these last two years have been.  An exercise in projecting a perception of what Ireland are?
Over on the match thread I've seen an English man say it was a strange game and he felt Ireland probably only wanted to play well, try things and stay injury free.  Some Irish lads are saying Ireland looked like they wanted a 'warm-up and England wanted a full-blooded test. Others are saying the Irish players were being selfish and trying to keep out of trouble. 8 points down against a rampant England at Twickenham wouldn't be a bad result if any of those thoughts proved well founded.

You hear this all the time about Ireland these last few years.  People see what they see but still wonder, are still curious, can't help thinking the Irish are being stubbornly uninventive on purpose....; so many games, glaringly so few attempts at genuine periods of offloading evasion and strike running.  I think they wonder because when they do their clinical tallies behind the scenes they see where the Irish team have so often appeared to wildly avoid the right choice and gone for the obvious wrong one.  They see that a team that can win competitions playing so little rugby can't be so clueless in the ways of rugby itself.  There is a dichotomy there.  You don't win games and competitions like the Irish team have been doing and not know how to play.  So it's the puzzle that keeps Hanson's eyes on us.  "What are these Irish lad's up to?"

Don't ask us!!!! Even we don't know what they're up to !

[aucklandlaurie]

Ireland shouldnt be too worried about the result of this game, as its only a "warm Up" game its not that important who wins, the purpose of the game is to get players timing right, develop combinations, experiment with defensive patterns, develop moves etc. etc.

[donglewood]

Most important to keep players match fit. Read nothing into the result.

[Notch]

To come on here and read 'Payne has zero attacking ability' doesn't just makes me angry, given that it's patently nonsense, it leaves me completely and utterly baffled. It's like I'm watching a different game. Or taking crazy pills. How is it possible to watch the way he run those arcing lines, carrying the ball in two hands, and always looking for the pass or the offload and come to that conclusion? He brings players into the game so effortlessly, assesses the options so well and runs intelligent lines... and those wanting more in attack want him dropped for players with much less aptitude for that kind of play, who have a history of being head down, up the middle runners who create opportunities for themselves but don't make the players around them look good. Or Cave, who is basically Jared Payne without the physicality.

It's like saying we're not physical enough, drop Henderson. We're not scrummaging well enough, drop Ross. I was fully expecting some serious humble pie to be being eaten on here regarding Payne and his attacking abilities tonight after his display today and that I'm not, well... to be quite frank it's insane.

Cave looks to be in the best shape of his career and is pushing the other two centres but come on... time to give some credit where it's due

[ME-109]

In Joe we trust?!?!?!?!... No?

[GunsGerms]

Dave Kearney was Irelands best back. Probably a nailed on starter.

[GunsGerms]

All the negativity coming from the usual Munster posters. Id say some people would get more pleasure in Ireland having a terrible world cup than seeing Schmidt do well.

[eirebilly]

Why do you always bring Munster into things GunsGerms? This seems like your default justification of any comment on an Ireland performance...

[englandglory4ever]

Ireland shouldnt be too worried about the result of this game, as its only a "warm Up" game its not that important who wins, the purpose of the game is to get players timing right, develop combinations, experiment with defensive patterns, develop moves etc. etc.

Yeah right!

[Rory_Gallagher]

Just watched the game, boy do we have a lot of work to do.

Also, I should note that although I said POM and Toner should be dropped for Henderson and Ryan respectively, POM was actually the best player in our back row I thought. He actually won the collisions and he was a menace at the breakdown. SOB was poor I thought, although he made a lot of tackles. We do seem to be lacking balance though, I'm not sure how it could be fixed.

[Guest]

Replace SOB with Henry. POM, Henry, Heaslip is proven to work, although that was 2 seasons ago.

[majesticimperialman]

I thought that Ireland was poor all over the field yesterday. Especialy in the backs, Tommy Bowe looked way of the pace in my opinion.

Zebo, Dave Kerney played very well and should both be in the Ireland team for the first game.....the rest of the team? don't know.

[ME-109]

All the negativity coming from the usual Munster posters. Id say some people would get more pleasure in Ireland having a terrible world cup than seeing Schmidt do well.

What negativity guns...the last three games have left me feeling uneasy but they are relatively irrelevant to the greater scheme of things. Fully expecting Ireland to be a well drilled outfit for the wc as they were in the six nations. Maybe you are just seeing negativity due to your own concerns which is understandable

[Notch]

Had we played better in the last two games we could get away with rotating a bit more against Canada in our first match. But for me, we need to put certain combinations which are still looking rusty out in that game. I'm really frustrated with the back three situation because we have an off-form Bowe and Luke Fitzgerald with Trimble sitting at home- he'd be the first name on the team sheet for me based on the last few games. But with Kearney, Earls and Zebo hopefully we won't need to use those two too much.

Against Canada I'd go with;

1) Tadhg Furlong
2) Rory Best
3) Mike Ross
4) Iain Henderson
5) Paul O'Connell
6) Sean O'Brien
7) Chris Henry
8) Jamie Heaslip
9) Conor Murray
10) Johnny Sexton
11) Simon Zebo
12) Robbie Henshaw
13) Jared Payne
14) Dave Kearney
15) Rob Kearney

16) Richardt Strauss 17) Cian Healy 18) Nathan White 19) Devin Toner 20) Peter O'Mahony 21) Eoin Reddan 22) Ian Madigan 23) Keith Earls

[eirebilly]

I truly feel sorry for Tommy Bowe, its not his fault he was selected and you can see that he is trying so hard to justify his selection. He probably tried too hard yesterday only to end up playing one of his worst matches for Ireland. Yesterdays loss is not completely down to him but the focus is on him because of Schmidt selecting him at the cost of Trimble.

Ireland as a team look disjointed in attack and i agree 100% with Marshes that Ireland seem to have only one plan, plan A and if plan A is not working, try harder with plan A.

I wont talk about the centers because i think Notch's head may explode if i dare say something negative about his favorite player .

Henderson or Henry need to come into the team to give them that extra bit of attacking in the forwards and free SOB up to do his thing. Heaslip seems to be performing excellently just about every match but for me the surprise package has been Dave Kearney. I had written him off but he has come back, looks like he has bulked up and has made the shirt his. Definite starter in my opinion.

[SecretFly]

Ireland weren't that bad at all.  

Again, played so little rugby it's become embarrassing but still had an absolute burning hungry England doing a lot that looked so so dangerous but proved not as productive as I'm sure the English hoped.  
It's clear they came to make a statement and use Ireland to make it.  I said before the game I expected them to attempt an England/France style shock'n'awe display on us.  And for a while Ireland were wheezing to cling on, that's true.  The shock and awe worked.  But such a team playing to such turned on opportunistic and accurate levels should have scored much more.  They didn't score more because Ireland found a bit of a footing and managed to get enough of a re-breather on things to clog up or hold off the English machine.

So - Ireland are Ireland - so far decidedly undynamic under Schmidt.  But they found a footing in a game that should have gone miles past them.  Wales and Australia won't give England so easy a time in a WC first half and the second half will be any man's game between any of those sides.  So England will feel happy for a few days or so until it dawns on Lancaster and his coaches that they're not happy and that a very poor Ireland too easily managed to stall the chariot.

Ireland will feel bad for a few days until they realise it wasn't a bad puff out and was instead a really good quality experience as they were rumbled, tossed, bullied and turned by a fast and inventive England.

Ireland played badly but didn't implode when they might have done.  England played again some lovely attacking rugby that seems to create attack from the slightest thing and from just about anywhere on the field.... but they should have really embarrassed Ireland on the scoreboard by playing so...and didn't.

[George Carlin]

I wouldn't worry that France is a game which you won't win. If you have some time, watch the first half of France v Scotland of last night.

If the tight 5 don't let themselves be bullied and you can keep a lid on Spedding, then I'm not really sure what France has as a 'Plan B'. You can certainly do it - just stop with all of this masochists' theatre.

[eirebilly]

SecretFly,

I feel that England were incredibly guilty of not being clinical enough. It was not Ireland that stopped England, it was England that stopped England running away with the game.

England will have to tighten up alot if they are going to get far in the RWC but i fully expect them too.

Ireland seem to be in the process of being found out by other international coaches (it was bound to happen) or Schmidt is not showing anything. If its the latter then i feel its a very risky tactic to follow as come crunch time, i am not sure that all the amount of drilling attacking moves on the training ground will be executable in a high pressure match as the boys will not be used to it.

[whocares]

I wouldn't worry that France is a game which you won't win. If you have some time, watch the first half of France v Scotland of last night.

If the tight 5 don't let themselves be bullied and you can keep a lid on Spedding, then I'm not really sure what France has as a 'Plan B'. You can certainly do it - just stop with all of this masochists' theatre.

We do not have a plan B. A good rush defense is enough to shut our attack down. That said the level of intensity shown during the 1st half is far from what we should see during the RWC key games.

[SecretFly]

I wouldn't worry that France is a game which you won't win. If you have some time, watch the first half of France v Scotland of last night.

If the tight 5 don't let themselves be bullied and you can keep a lid on Spedding, then I'm not really sure what France has as a 'Plan B'. You can certainly do it - just stop with all of this masochists' theatre.

Perhaps George but I'd just but a warning sticker on things and say the French are probably conscious of the Irish coaches looking, as indeed the Irish are aware that the French are looking.  I personally think the two most honest sides in Europe are England and France...and Wales! I meant  They seem to want to bluff little and win playing their best rugby as often as they can.  They seem to have the theory going that in order to play the game they want to play you have to keep playing it and perfecting it and increasing the tempo of it as you go.  No time or inclination to bluff, just get the bloody thing right!

France (and to a degree Ireland) are more shifty sides of perhaps bluffs and interested in preserving all-out games for all-out occasions.   France are a WC team, they'll be waiting in the long grass to spoil any plans the Irish have.  And we'll be plotting our own downing of their ambush

[SecretFly]

SecretFly,

I feel that England were incredibly guilty of not being clinical enough. It was not Ireland that stopped England, it was England that stopped England running away with the game.

England will have to tighten up alot if they are going to get far in the RWC but i fully expect them too.

Ireland seem to be in the process of being found out by other international coaches (it was bound to happen) or Schmidt is not showing anything. If its the latter then i feel its a very risky tactic to follow as come crunch time, i am not sure that all the amount of drilling attacking moves on the training ground will be executable in a high pressure match as the boys will not be used to it.

Neither am I certain such a plan if it's out there is workable without practice.  I've been calling on us to show a Plan B for a long time.  To show a version of Ireland that spends far more of an 80 minutes in offensive attack and uses modern method of offloading and space finding to do so.  

But nope - the man who gave us Leinster of a few seasons back (and look back at some of it on Youtube) has either lost the ability to see the advantages of taking pressure off yourselves by playing a more open opportunistic offloading game....or he's simply decided he's not going to play it that way, or he's not going to play it that way yet.

I still say the man can't be dumb.  He knows what rugby is and how it works.  He's knows the limited gameplan puts so much pressure and energy sapping effort onto the backs of his players for so little gain.  He must know defending slim margins through an entire half is dicey in the extreme.  He knows all this.  The present blueprint can't be a blueprint such a rugby brain sees as effective enough to win a WC.

He's already said years ago that he knows opposition coaches learn how to handle what you throw at them and adapt to it eventually.

So we're back to square one again.  Some fans thinking Joe has turned into Kidney Mark 2 (no Plan B) and some of us see Joe perhaps keeping stuff hidden.  We don't have long to learn which it is.

[eirebilly]

I certainly don't feel that Schmidt is an unintelligent coach, far from it. I just feel that he is being found out somewhat with his tactics.

I simply cant see Ireland going far in a RWC by playing this ultra defensive type game and feel that he may have left it too late to show his teeth with attacking play. The boys look absolutely flustered in attack. Only Zebo, Dave Kearney, Henshaw and Earls have run some good attacking lines in the warmup matches. The fact that these boys are running good attacking lines leads me to believe that the team want to attack but are maybe having it drilled out of them too much.

[Exiledinborders]

SecretFly,

I feel that England were incredibly guilty of not being clinical enough. It was not Ireland that stopped England, it was England that stopped England running away with the game.

England will have to tighten up alot if they are going to get far in the RWC but i fully expect them too.

Ireland seem to be in the process of being found out by other international coaches (it was bound to happen) or Schmidt is not showing anything. If its the latter then i feel its a very risky tactic to follow as come crunch time, i am not sure that all the amount of drilling attacking moves on the training ground will be executable in a high pressure match as the boys will not be used to it.

Neither am I certain such a plan if it's out there is workable without practice.  I've been calling on us to show a Plan B for a long time.  To show a version of Ireland that spends far more of an 80 minutes in offensive attack and uses modern method of offloading and space finding to do so.  

But nope - the man who gave us Leinster of a few seasons back (and look back at some of it on Youtube) has either lost the ability to see the advantages of taking pressure off yourselves by playing a more open opportunistic offloading game....or he's simply decided he's not going to play it that way, or he's not going to play it that way yet.

I still say the man can't be dumb.  He knows what rugby is and how it works.  He's knows the limited gameplan puts so much pressure and energy sapping effort onto the backs of his players for so little gain.  He must know defending slim margins through an entire half is dicey in the extreme.  He knows all this.  The present blueprint can't be a blueprint such a rugby brain sees as effective enough to win a WC.

He's already said years ago that he knows opposition coaches learn how to handle what you throw at them and adapt to it eventually.

So we're back to square one again.  Some fans thinking Joe has turned into Kidney Mark 2 (no Plan B) and some of us see Joe perhaps keeping stuff hidden.  We don't have long to learn which it is.

If he plans to unveil a new style of rugby in the RWC without trying it out in advance that is a very risky tactic. I don't think players can just flick a switch and change styles.

[Notch]

Interesting fact; there are more New Zealand players in other squads at this RWC than there are in the New Zealand squad. 31 players representing New Zealand, 37 New Zealand-born players representing other nations.

[hugehandoff]

Yes England did leave a number of chances out there and the scoreline did flatter Ireland a little, but I am sure this defeat will be a good thing for Ireland's RWC chances. Ireland are a very good side, but just had an off day with lots of individual errors. I am sure they are still in the middle of heavy training and have not tapered off to the extent England have to to be ready for Fiji. This defeat will concentrate the mind and ensure training is ferocious. Then ensure the boys are rested before the serious matches begin and I am sure you will see a totally different side and performance.

I expect a business like performance in the early group matches before the France game. France are so hard to predict and may well perform at a higher level than in the 6Ns but this is a good Ireland side and will be well prepared. England were so sluggish in their 2nd France match and were clearly more energetic this time out due to less heavy training. So no need to panic, but certainly time to focus and ensure training is of the highest quality - I am sure it will be.

[Marshes]

I wonder at what point we will see Healy get game time? Has to be at least up to speed for France, so would need to be involved in at least two games before that to get up to speed I think, one of which should probably be Italy

[GunsGerms]

I wonder at what point we will see Healy get game time? Has to be at least up to speed for France, so would need to be involved in at least two games before that to get up to speed I think, one of which should probably be Italy

According to Cathal Pendred (UFC Fighter and former team mate of Healy's) Healy's first game will be v France.

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