Scotland RWC Warm-up Matches

First topic message reminder :

Previous RWC related nonsense:
https://www.606v2.com/t58234p1000-scotland-world-cup-look-ahead-and-squad

Game 1:

  
IRELAND v SCOTLAND
15 August 2015
KO: 17:00 local
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Game 2:


ITALY v SCOTLAND
22 August 2015
KO: 15:00 local
Stadio Olimpico di Torino, Turin

Game 3:

  
SCOTLAND v ITALY
29 August 2015
KO: 15:15 local
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh

Game 4:

 
FRANCE v SCOTLAND
05 September 2015
KO: 21:00 local
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

No Laidlaw or Russell!

cp10 wrote:25 man squad for the game vs Ireland.

Fowards;
Barclay
Blake
F Brown
Cowan
Cusack
Denton
Dell
Gilchrist
Ryan Grant
Hamilton
Harley
McInally
Reid
Welsh

Backs;
Fife
SHC
Horne
Jackson
Lamont
Pyrgos
Seymour
Tonks
Vernon
Visser
Weir

No Laidlaw

Riskysports wrote:

cp10 wrote:25 man squad for the game vs Ireland.

Fowards;
Barclay
Blake
F Brown
Cowan
Cusack
Denton
Dell
Gilchrist
Ryan Grant
Hamilton
Harley
McInally
Reid
Welsh

Backs;
Fife
SHC
Horne
Jackson
Lamont
Pyrgos
Seymour
Tonks
Vernon
Visser
Weir

No Laidlaw

I wouldn't break out the champagne yet. That squad has cannon fodder written all over it!

Yes, there is no Laidlaw but this is clearly the game for looking at bench/ squad players, whic means Laidlaw looks assured of his place which means one of henners/ SHC and Cus will lose out.
It does at least mean that both SHC and Henners will get ample chance to show what they have got , assuming the pack can get some ball.
The inclusion of three opensides seems to indicate that Cotter has learnt his lesson from playing two 8's in the 6 N's when we were cleared out at contact.
Also looks as if Harley will need to cover 4 as well as 6 as there are only two genuine SR's in that 25. Not a great move.

Looking at that squad I reckon Grant and Fife will be cut from the match day squad.

I'd go with
1 G Reid 2 F Brown 3 J Welsh 4 J Hamilton 5 G Gilchrist 6 B Cowan 7 J Barclay 8 D Denton 9 H Pyrgos 10 D Weir 11 T Visser 12 P Horne 13 R Vernon 14 T Seymour 15 G Tonks
16 S McInally 17 A Dell 18 M Cusack 19 R Harley 20 H Blake 21 SHC 22 R Jackson 23 S Lamont

Purely a guess as to what the team will be but that's roughly what I'd like to see from that squad.
With it being JAckson's first game back I would imagine he will come off the bench. Think Lamont will also be on the bench over Fife due to covering centre and wing.

I see that Henners Piecrust has been named captain, so let's assume he's starting.

Right then, so from that little lot we could do:

01 Ryan Grant
02 Fraser Brown
03 Mike Cusack
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Jim Hamilton
06 Rob Harley
07 John Barclay
08 David Denton

09 Henry Pyrgos (captain)
10 Ruaridh Jackson
11 Tim Visser
12 Peter Horne
13 Richie Vernon
14 Tommy Seymour
15 Greig Tonks

16 Gordon Reid
17 Stuart McInally
18 Jon Welsh
19 Blair Cowan
20 Hugh Blake
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Duncan Weir
23 Sean Lamont

meaning that Dougie Fife and Allan Dell would correctly lose out for Not Being Very Good At Rugby.

This would mean that Harley has to be lock cover, which I'm not nuts about because Ireland have a big, attritional pack.

Three opensides, eh? Like back in the Andy Robinson days.

At least we'll see Blake play, so that people here can put the boot in based upon actual knowledge of what he can do on a rugby field.

George Carlin wrote:I see that Henners Piecrust has been named captain, so let's assume he's starting.

Right then, so from that little lot we could do:

01 Ryan Grant
02 Fraser Brown
03 Mike Cusack
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Jim Hamilton
06 Rob Harley
07 John Barclay
08 David Denton

09 Henry Pyrgos (captain)
10 Ruaridh Jackson
11 Tim Visser
12 Peter Horne
13 Richie Vernon
14 Tommy Seymour
15 Greig Tonks

16 Gordon Reid
17 Stuart McInally
18 Jon Welsh
19 Blair Cowan
20 Hugh Blake
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Duncan Weir
23 Sean Lamont

meaning that Dougie Fife and Allan Dell would correctly lose out for Not Being Very Good At Rugby.

This would mean that Harley has to be lock cover, which I'm not nuts about because Ireland have a big, attritional pack.

Maybe you ought to wait and see him play, so you can put the boot in based on what he actually does on a rugby field......

I've seen Dingly Dell. Not all that impressed.

I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

Ireland are going to muller us at the breakdown

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

This is very true. It's all cocktails in jam jars and organic avocado served on a slate. No rugby pubs left anymore. Even The Standard, a rugby haven, has been replaced with a Gin Bar called Mothers. All I'll say about that place is they know how to charge.

Dell must have something. I can't see Solomons being the sort of coach to tolerate a loosehead prop who can't scrummage. Still, well behind Reid, Grant and Dickinson and pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned for this World Cup.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

This is very true. It's all cocktails in jam jars and organic avocado served on a slate. No rugby pubs left anymore. Even The Standard, a rugby haven, has been replaced with a Gin Bar called Mothers. All I'll say about that place is they know how to charge.

Dell must have something. I can't see Solomons being the sort of coach to tolerate a loosehead prop who can't scrummage. Still, well behind Reid, Grant and Dickinson and pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned for this World Cup.

Ah, but have you tried their "Stockbridge Sling" cocktail? It is raaaaather good!

highland_scot wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

This is very true. It's all cocktails in jam jars and organic avocado served on a slate. No rugby pubs left anymore. Even The Standard, a rugby haven, has been replaced with a Gin Bar called Mothers. All I'll say about that place is they know how to charge.

Dell must have something. I can't see Solomons being the sort of coach to tolerate a loosehead prop who can't scrummage. Still, well behind Reid, Grant and Dickinson and pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned for this World Cup.

Ah, but have you tried their "Stockbridge Sling" cocktail? It is raaaaather good!

Mothers, got dragged in there on a 6N day. Full of pretentious bearded fools wearing tank tops. One of the most inappropriate "rugby venues" I have ever had the misfortune to visit.

highland_scot wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

This is very true. It's all cocktails in jam jars and organic avocado served on a slate. No rugby pubs left anymore. Even The Standard, a rugby haven, has been replaced with a Gin Bar called Mothers. All I'll say about that place is they know how to charge.

Dell must have something. I can't see Solomons being the sort of coach to tolerate a loosehead prop who can't scrummage. Still, well behind Reid, Grant and Dickinson and pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned for this World Cup.

Ah, but have you tried their "Stockbridge Sling" cocktail? It is raaaaather good!

I've just looked that one up and apparently it's made with gin, triple sec, lemon juice, Sprite, the tears of an underpaid domestic worker and the blood of an Ayrshire child.

George Carlin wrote:

highland_scot wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I don't recall seeing Dell play, but because he's a forward from the Southern Hemisphere I feel I don't need to.

You really need to start watching the later stages of the Currie Cup.

Not only would you know that Dell is somewhat invisible but you would have had some advance warning that Josh Strauss was always likely to be quite good.

Although I take your point that such programmes are unlikely to occupy the big screen at the Swan & Venture Capitalist wine bar in Stockbridge.

This is very true. It's all cocktails in jam jars and organic avocado served on a slate. No rugby pubs left anymore. Even The Standard, a rugby haven, has been replaced with a Gin Bar called Mothers. All I'll say about that place is they know how to charge.

Dell must have something. I can't see Solomons being the sort of coach to tolerate a loosehead prop who can't scrummage. Still, well behind Reid, Grant and Dickinson and pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned for this World Cup.

Ah, but have you tried their "Stockbridge Sling" cocktail? It is raaaaather good!

I've just looked that one up and apparently it's made with gin, triple sec, lemon juice, Sprite, the tears of an underpaid domestic worker and the blood of an Ayrshire child.

I thought that was the secret formula FES's cleaning lady uses....

Dickinson and Reid are sure things for the WC squad but Ryan Grant's form in recent times hasn't been particularly good so you never know, perhaps Dell has done better in training and may be ahead in the pecking order?

I don't think we can really take anything from this initial squad regarding what it means for the world cup squad really.

Bit concerned that Barclay is being regarded as covering 8 with the two other sevens listed? surely unless he is named as starting 7 or 6 its indicative that he is still not regarded as a cert for the world cup squad because he will not be going as a 8.

Not so convinced that Reid is definitely in the squad, Grant was selected ahead of Reid for the final 4 matches of the season but was injured for final.

Cowan is surely more likely to be considered the utility back-row player seeing as he started out at 8 plus he's a bigger more aggressive carrier too.

This may be the only audition Blake and Barclay get for the squad, assuming Hardie and Watson share the next game.

Possibly at scrum-half too, if Laidlaw and Cusiter were to share next week and both play outrageously well.

Same probably goes for the back-three with Fife, Visser, Lamont and Tonks all trying to earn a spot.

Wonder if Seymour and Harley are going to be given some minutes in their back-up positions, full-back and lock.

Interesting piece in the Scotsman about Cusiter:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/chris-cusiter-out-of-world-cup-preparations-1-3855949

Clearly, we are not going to see him at the World Cup - he seems to be in the 'emergency injury cover' bracket now.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't think we can really take anything from this initial squad regarding what it means for the world cup squad really.

We will certainly know a lot more after the game than we do now but it does tell us a few things. Firstly, Cotter views Tonks as a full back first. Despite his preference to play 10, I reckon this will help Tonks make the squad, especially if Maitland doesn't get fit. Secondly, Harley is actually being considered as a lock and that wasn't an error from the SRU comms team. It also tells us that Blake has either been talked up enough by SJ or done enough in training to make Cotter rate him (and that Cotter doesn't give a toss about folk in the press complaining).

I had presumed already that Cusiter would miss out, and that Laidlaw, SH-C and Pyrgos would be going. Seems right to me.

On twitter - BIG @Scotlandteam story coming your way shortly...

Any ideas what this may be?
Something about Jim Hamilton?
Naiyaravoro has found a Scottish granny?
Sean Lamont has been getting his kit off again?

Nathan Hines has come out of retirement having seen the dross on offer in training

RWC captain(s) to be named?

Contract extension for VC to 2017

What's that strange feeling in my chest? It's almost like... happiness?

Means we're definitely going out of the world cup in the first round then we'll try to fire him having just signed a contract extension... End up having to pay him off.

highland_scot wrote:Contract extension for VC to 2017

Ah. The Warren Gatland Error.

Cracking news. But I hope its not too premature, we might struggle to make it out of our group; on the other hand I'm glad to see we're looking beyond that as his present deal ran out post RWC http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22678456

Well, I mean so far he's delivered a porous defence, a weak pack, some odd selection decisions in the 6 Nations and a nice Wooden Spoon.

He has a big reputation but that has not been enhanced or demonstrated at all in his capacity as Scotland Head Coach. So far his regime has been disappointing. Odd decision from the SRU. Why not wait and see how he gets on at the World Cup and then tailor the deal accordingly? If he doesn't get us out of the Group, I don't want him.

Bring in Craig Chalmers - even if we don't have a captain who can influence the ref we can have a coach who will fight him ;-)

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well, I mean so far he's delivered a porous defence, a weak pack, some odd selection decisions in the 6 Nations and a nice Wooden Spoon.

He has a big reputation but that has not been enhanced or demonstrated at all in his capacity as Scotland Head Coach. So far his regime has been disappointing. Odd decision from the SRU. Why not wait and see how he gets on at the World Cup and then tailor the deal accordingly? If he doesn't get us out of the Group, I don't want him.

This seems a bit harsh? We had a mixed bag in the summer which wasn't helped by a shambolic schedule, then a decent enough AI series in which we played some good rugby. The 6N was a total dissapointment but Cotter is not the first to lead us to a spoon. Which other coach would be both able to do better and willing to try?

Please note - Toonie is not eligible for reason that are obvious.

Good news! Cotter deserves the time to do his thing.. Who knows, after the WC several new players may seem like obvious choices to start for Scotland in the 6N. Young side with lots of fresh faces coming into contention, what's not to like?

Weegie Wizard wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well, I mean so far he's delivered a porous defence, a weak pack, some odd selection decisions in the 6 Nations and a nice Wooden Spoon.

He has a big reputation but that has not been enhanced or demonstrated at all in his capacity as Scotland Head Coach. So far his regime has been disappointing. Odd decision from the SRU. Why not wait and see how he gets on at the World Cup and then tailor the deal accordingly? If he doesn't get us out of the Group, I don't want him.

This seems a bit harsh? We had a mixed bag in the summer which wasn't helped by a shambolic schedule, then a decent enough AI series in which we played some good rugby. The 6N was a total dissapointment but Cotter is not the first to lead us to a spoon. Which other coach would be both able to do better and willing to try?

Please note - Toonie is not eligible for reason that are obvious.

I know, I am a pretty harsh judge. I work in a results driven industry and as such the idea of rewarding a coach who has just delivered a Wooden Spoon doesn't sit easy with me. On our last outing we were spanked by a record margin at home. We should have waited to assess progress at the World Cup in my view. Still, I was delighted when we got Cotter and it's probably right to say that he hasn't had long enough to really impose himself on the squad.

His successor is easy: Toonie. Glasgow can have Scott Johnson.

It is definitely a good move, but it will be a bit awkward if we don't get out our group then have another poor 6N...

I think we need to be realistic of where we are what we have achieved in the modern era. We're currently 12th in the rankings, one place above Georgia, have generally been awful in most 6N and have fallen short at world cups where it mattered.

He's got a very tough job on his hands - any improvement would be a significant achievement!

Strauss at 6, Wilson at 7, Vernon at 13.

He would love it here.

Has he actually been offered the extension?

I've not seen anything reported

RDW_Scotland wrote:It is definitely a good move, but it will be a bit awkward if we don't get out our group then have another poor 6N...

I think we need to be realistic of where we are what we have achieved in the modern era. We're currently 12th in the rankings, one place above Georgia, have generally been awful in most 6N and have fallen short at world cups where it mattered.

He's got a very tough job on his hands - any improvement would be a significant achievement!

"A bit awkward" is when you fart in a lift. I would describe a two year run of duff results as a complete disaster. If we don't escape the group and collect another Wooden Spoon, he'll be on a par with Matt Williams.

This group of players is better than that. We should be beating teams like Italy, Samoa, Japan and the USA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33890753

Fairly solid statement from Cotter. Will be interesting to see if these up and coming youngsters he talks about get any actual game time for Glasgow and more importantly, Edinburgh (for a change)

True FES, 12th in the rankings (which I think are dumb anyway) is pretty horrendous.

Italy, Samoa, Japan, Fiji, Tonga.. We should definitely be beating these guys even if it is in the most boring way imaginable. Scotland need to be street smart and play positive attacking rugby when it's on and solid set piece orientated game plan when things start to go pear shaped.

The 6N highlighted our lack of cohesion between going from attack minded rugby to a safer, secured style of play.

The rankings are strange, but to be fair we haven't won a game since November 2014 - 12th is probably fair!

The Pacific Nations Cup has just happened so the Pacific teams will have gained some extra points.
Our warm-ups will hopefully put us back in top 10.

So getting spanked by a side 10 places above us in the rankings at the weekend (Ireland) won't be all that shameful, will it?

Mind you, it does go to show how tight the margins are and how much good coaching comes into it. Glasgow would not be afraid of any of the Irish franchises at the moment. Surely Vern is saying that it's fundementally exactly the same opposition?

Considering we haven't won a game since November the timing of the new contract was odd, you'd have thought that if November's showing was enough for a contract it would have been done then and there rather than wait until he secured the wooden spoon. I'd rather they waited until after the World Cup, evaluate performances and then act from there. Let's make one thing clear in a world cup game in Autumn, in Newcastle Scotland should never, ever lose to Samoa and if we do it'll make Cotter's position at best tenuous. I'm not a fan of the contract to 2017, international rugby is now on a four year cycle and we need aim for the coach in place at the start of the 2016 Six Nations to be the Coach for the 2019 World Cup. It could very well be Andy Robinson all over again. The last cycle we had 3 different coaches in 4 years and our interim coach lasted the longest, we've been in transition for 4 years at least, all because of the continual rewarding of Andy Robinson for failure on account of his initial good performances in his first November and good performances blighted by misfortune in his first six nations, sound familiar at all? I'm a big fan of Cotter but we should have judged his performances in the World Cup before giving him a contract until 2019 based on results, or at least write off this World Cup and judge him entirely on 2019, not this weird halfway house where a coach who's contract renewal in 2017 will probably be based on performances in this world cup.

On the bright side rewards are normally given for achieving targets, the official SRU target is to win the world Cup so I'm assuming Dodson knows something we don't.

George Carlin wrote:So getting spanked by a side 10 places above us in the rankings at the weekend (Ireland) won't be all that shameful, will it?

Mind you, it does go to show how tight the margins are and how much good coaching comes into it. Glasgow would not be afraid of any of the Irish franchises at the moment. Surely Vern is saying that it's fundamentally exactly the same opposition?

I would think so. And that Welsh team they lynched on Saturday was pish anyway. I think we could have a good game on our hands.

Just got a ticket to the Samoa game. Delighted!

Does anyone else feel like we have been waiting ages for some actual rugby to discuss.

You know I'm beginning to think I've used my 24-hour party pass on the wrong game(Boks). I'm pretty sure the group will still be live going into the Samoa match and the party after we win will be epic.
Mind you at present my Bokkie friend is trying to get us seats on the early train out of London, "For the atmosphere...and we can start drinking early."