Irish Provinces NEWS & GOSSIP thread 2015-16-17

by Sin é Wed 05 Aug 2015, 11:27 am

First topic message reminder :

What it says in the title - a place to put all bits of news not worth starting a thread for the Four Proud Provinces of Ireland such as new signings, interviews that maybe of interest to others etc.

I've just added on 17 as its not a huge thread.

by mikey_dragon Sat 26 Dec 2015, 3:40 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about Moore, the recruitment in the provinces has been a shambles in recent years especially in Leinster. Signing players like Goodman, Berquist,Zane Kirchner, Triggs, Maks Van Dyk (seriously wtf?) etc instead of even quality PI or other tier 2 players has been infuriating. Very poor scouting.

They had all fit into Leinster's style of play very well when they first signed up. Now that Leinster's form has dipped, probably for the most part due to not bringing in a good enough coach, these lot are at fault? MOC was the scapegoat last season, despite actually being a good coach who helped bring more silverware to Leinster.

by asoreleftshoulder Sat 26 Dec 2015, 9:01 pm

MOC was an awful coach,Cullen has us playing far better in his short time in charge despite his inexperience and the fact that the WC hampered his first few months in charge.

This year is a write off as it will take that long to undo the damage MoC did.

by mikey_dragon Sun 27 Dec 2015, 2:24 am

I just don't agree with that, I seen MOC's Leinster produce the results and silverware. It's quite unfortunate for the Dublin based province that whilst he was in charge the likes of Clermont and Toulon had awesome teams. Cullen's Leinster are playing the same opposition and are doing much worse.

This year in Europe is a write off but there is still hope that Leinster can claw their way back in the Pro12, but how you see that as the fault of MOC just beggars belief.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 27 Dec 2015, 4:02 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about Moore, the recruitment in the provinces has been a shambles in recent years especially in Leinster. Signing players like Goodman, Berquist,Zane Kirchner, Triggs, Maks Van Dyk (seriously wtf?) etc instead of even quality PI or other tier 2 players has been infuriating. Very poor scouting.

They had all fit into Leinster's style of play very well when they first signed up. Now that Leinster's form has dipped, probably for the most part due to not bringing in a good enough coach, these lot are at fault? MOC was the scapegoat last season, despite actually being a good coach who helped bring more silverware to Leinster.

Most of them have never played more than a dozen games for Leinster, let alone fit into our style of play.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 27 Dec 2015, 8:37 am

Leinster used to be excellent at augmenting their talented locals with some high impact foreign players. These days they seem to be signing solid journeymen. Perhaps less of a coaches problem and more of a scouting problem? I have no idea why you guys signed Kirchner and not a flying Fijian for instance. I mean Irish back three players are known for their great footballing skills and high ball taking. It's the Gaelic football influence why you needed a Bok who offers the same thing no one knows.

by mikey_dragon Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:37 pm

Yeah Kirchner was an odd one, probably one of the worst 15's SA has ever had. The only time he has looked good is against weak and/or understrength teams in the Pro12. Same has it spot on, Ireland produce a lot of talented back 3 players - if you feel Leinster are short in that area then why not nick someone from Ulster as they seem to be well stocked there right now...

by mikey_dragon Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:41 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about Moore, the recruitment in the provinces has been a shambles in recent years especially in Leinster. Signing players like Goodman, Berquist,Zane Kirchner, Triggs, Maks Van Dyk (seriously wtf?) etc instead of even quality PI or other tier 2 players has been infuriating. Very poor scouting.

They had all fit into Leinster's style of play very well when they first signed up. Now that Leinster's form has dipped, probably for the most part due to not bringing in a good enough coach, these lot are at fault? MOC was the scapegoat last season, despite actually being a good coach who helped bring more silverware to Leinster.
Most of them have never played more than a dozen games for Leinster, let alone fit into our style of play.

Surely Goodman and Kirchner have played more than a dozen games? Goodman and Berquist were good with ball in hand when I previously seen them play, and Leinster always liked to run the ball - even Gopperth was good at that. I'll be honest though I've never even heard of Triggs and Van Dyk.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 27 Dec 2015, 11:44 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Whatever about Moore, the recruitment in the provinces has been a shambles in recent years especially in Leinster. Signing players like Goodman, Berquist,Zane Kirchner, Triggs, Maks Van Dyk (seriously wtf?) etc instead of even quality PI or other tier 2 players has been infuriating. Very poor scouting.

They had all fit into Leinster's style of play very well when they first signed up. Now that Leinster's form has dipped, probably for the most part due to not bringing in a good enough coach, these lot are at fault? MOC was the scapegoat last season, despite actually being a good coach who helped bring more silverware to Leinster.
Most of them have never played more than a dozen games for Leinster, let alone fit into our style of play.

Surely Goodman and Kirchner have played more than a dozen games? Goodman and Berquist were good with ball in hand when I previously seen them play, and Leinster always liked to run the ball - even Gopperth was good at that. I'll be honest though I've never even heard of Triggs and Van Dyk.

Goodman was a lump of a play maker with a big boot on him who spent most of his time on the treatment table. Berquist played one game, got injured and never played for us again. The fact that Cullen choose to play Madigan at 15 ahead of Kirchner in Europe, shows how much he is rated.

These guys are decent rugby players no doubt but there is so much better players out there, especially in the PI's who could do the same job better and for less money.

by **profitius** Mon 28 Dec 2015, 2:52 pm

So Madigan has signed for Bordeaux. Good move for him?

by **Notch** Mon 28 Dec 2015, 3:00 pm

Yeah, probably is a good move for him. I don't think he's ever going to be able to nail down a 10 shirt at international level, so from his point of view whats the point in him moving to Munster or Connacht? He'll get more gametime on the same money but it won't boost his international chances.

Obviously it would be better for Irish Rugby to convince him to move to another province since he isn't ever going to oust Sexton at Leinster but he's not going to get the same kind of financial rewards. We would be paying over the odds if we matched what was on offer in France.

by eirebilly Mon 28 Dec 2015, 4:17 pm

Personally I think it is a wrong move on his behalf to go to France. Schmidt obviously rated him more than Jackson in for Ireland so its a strange move from him as he could well have been the starting 10 for Ireland within a year (given Sexton's injury list).

When it was announced that Sexton would be returning, I always had this feeling that Madigan would have left. It would have been nice for Munster to sign him as I think that he could have developed more with them.

by marty2086 Mon 28 Dec 2015, 4:23 pm

Billy I don't think it's fair to say Schmidt rated him higher, I think he is and was more versatile which got him more game time, this meant he was the match sharpest of the two when called upon

by Engine#4 Mon 28 Dec 2015, 4:25 pm

An opportunity to be the starting 10, better pay, better weather, it seems like a bit of a no-brainer to me. I wouldn't have liked to see him move to Munster, a small but vocal section of their support would never have accepted him. Hopefully this move all works out well for him.

by eirebilly Mon 28 Dec 2015, 4:27 pm

Schmidt does rate him higher than Jackson in my opinion because he is far more familiar with Madigan than Jackson, nothing sinister in that.

by theslosty Mon 28 Dec 2015, 5:36 pm

This could be a very positive move for Madigan. The only competition for the 10 shirt will be Lionel Beauxis and the Top 14 will force him to improve the weaknesses in his game ie. game management and kicking out of hand. Sexton was always a decent tactical kicker but it improved rapidly after joining Racing (ROG may deserve credit for this).

I'm not sure Schmidt necessarily saw Madigan as a better all-round 10 than Jackson but I think he felt Madigan was more reliable in high pressure situations. It's often said Ireland's 10 options are poor after Sexton but Madigan rarely let us down when called upon.

by **Notch** Mon 28 Dec 2015, 5:49 pm

Jackson wasn't playing like he is now when Madigan went ahead of him- when he started he had Jackson, Jackson had a few injuries and his form went down so he feel down the pecking order. There's no great mystery to Schmidt picking the man in form to understudy Sexton.

by VinceWLB Mon 28 Dec 2015, 5:56 pm

Madigan is overrated and certainly isn't worth the money that was thrown around. A dangerous player one on one yes but not a great playmaker. Will never forget the intercept he threw against Toulon last year. His kicking from hand is extremely poor too for someone with international ambitions, even Keatley's is better.

by The Great Aukster Mon 28 Dec 2015, 11:07 pm

If Madigan was French he would be playing in the 9 shirt, and that position would allow his opportunistic running to blossom rather than hoping that one of these days his tactical kicking will start to improve in the 10 spot.

It is now absolutely necessary at his age to get a change of scenery and hopefully a regeneration of his career. France will suit him because the playmaking duties are shared and they like high percentage place kickers.

by **profitius** Tue 29 Dec 2015, 2:23 am

I don't think Madigan has ever has a sustained period of playing at 10. He was always behind Sexton and even the average Gopperth.

I would say MOC's refusal to play Madigan was the main reason he got the sack. The more people complained about it the more the stubborn MOC dug his heals in. At one stage Gopperth was having a bad run of form but even then MOC just kept playing him at 10.

by mikey_dragon Tue 29 Dec 2015, 11:55 am

Gopperth seems to be doing okay with Wasps.

Madigan might be asked to play 12 at BB, they look as if they have a good fly-half already. Him and AAC in the centre could be good.

by LeinsterFan4life Tue 29 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

BB have played 5 different flyhalfs this season,so they really don't have anyone nailed down to that position. Also Guitone and AAC have been doing really well as a center partnership lately for them. There is no doubt he is being signed mainly as a 10.

by Golden Thu 31 Dec 2015, 12:12 pm

Might be a bit of old news, but I missed it with Christmas and everything. Ian McKinleys campaign was successful. The IRFU have asked to take part in the trial with rugby goggles. They should be approved in the next couple of weeks.

This means that if he can make the team McKinley should be able to play against Leinster when Zebre come to town in February.

Anyone know if he is injured or is he just not making their squads?

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 31 Dec 2015, 1:16 pm

McKinley was just cover for the world cup period. He's back playing in the Italian championship.

by mikey_dragon Thu 31 Dec 2015, 1:50 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:BB have played 5 different flyhalfs this season,so they really don't have anyone nailed down to that position. Also Guitone and AAC have been doing really well as a center partnership lately for them. There is no doubt he is being signed mainly as a 10.

How much of that was forced by injury? I think Bernard is the incumbent and he's a decent player. If they have 5 available as you make out then it doesn't seem to make much sense to sign a sixth. I would imagine Madigan has been signed up with the intention of playing more than just one position. I think for now he would be best suited between Bernard and AAC. They could also shift AAC I guess seeing as he can play anywhere.

by **profitius** Thu 31 Dec 2015, 3:09 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:McKinley was just cover for the world cup period. He's back playing in the Italian championship.

He was a better prospect than Sexton from what I can remember, a real class player. I can imagine its extremely hard to play with one eye especially if you're a 10. Depth perception and peripheral vision are very important.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat 02 Jan 2016, 4:55 pm

The provinces have been consistently inconsistent this season. Leinster has actually come out the best from these interpros. They looked the most assured and have some cracking players coming through.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 03 Jan 2016, 1:34 pm

Have to say what Cullen has done with Leinster in such a short space of time is remarkable.We are playing an ambitious attacking brand of rugby and our skills are improving visibly as the season goes on.

There was one passage of play in the 2nd half where we set Dave Kearney away on an overlap,the ball went through at least 5 sets of hands with simple catch,draw the man and pass executed by each player.In that rain it was a nice example of something we wouldn't ever have attempted under MoC.The ambition in our play is just on a different level and next year we will be a real threat again.

In fact the game was a great advertisement for Irish rugby,it showed that you can play rugby in that kind of weather as both teams kept the ball in hand when possible,Connacht didn't ever really threaten but the ambition was there to try to play rugby.

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:22 pm

McCloskey is in the schmidt camp along with ringrose and marshall.

Would love to see a centre pairing of McCloskey and Henshaw for Ireland. McC started the season in great form, is he still at that level (question not a statement)?

Ringrose is doing great for Leinster, he has size and pace. But he needs to work on his strength, he loses ball in contact far too easily in pro12 matches. Full Tests are still a bit off for him yet.

by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 12:55 pm

McFadden has been cited for stamping against Connacht, I watched this game and I must say I cannot remember this happening.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/mcfadden-cited-for-stamping/

by **rodders** Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:14 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:McCloskey is in the schmidt camp along with ringrose and marshall.

Would love to see a centre pairing of McCloskey and Henshaw for Ireland. McC started the season in great form, is he still at that level (question not a statement)?

He's been in great form the last few weeks - I actually think he didn't have great start to the season compared to last year but he's really making some serious yards with the ball now - being sandwiched between on-form Jackson and Marshall is making him look good.... or is it the other way around...

I've been really impressed with Ringrose, his physicality is starting to catch up with his skills now but think the 6N is too soon to consider starting him.

If Henshaw is still seen as a centre, rather than a 15, then would love to see him an McCloskey together.

I think Joe will go with Fitzgerald and Henshaw against Wales though.

by eirebilly Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:51 pm

Didn't get to watch the Leinster game so can someone tell me if Sexton played and if he did, how did he play? He must be feeling the pressure of paddy Jackson now.

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 04 Jan 2016, 1:57 pm

If it is a stamp LD, he should receive a ban for a couple of weeks.

My memories of the game are a bit fuzzy Billy but Sexton wasn't great in my view, quite average I thought coming away from the game. He took a knock and Madigan came on if I'm not mistaken and the play improved a bit after that..... I was slightly impaired at the time though so take that review with a pinch of salt (I might have just been sat on the terrace steps of old belvo shouting out at an empty field at the time).

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:00 pm

Fair play to the provinces, all four in champions cup places at the new year.
In fact IRFU and SRU both well placed to max their representation at the top table next season.

I presume all in the pro12 will be estatic at the thought of all this meritocracy.

by **rodders** Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:01 pm

Doubt it - Jacksons problem is when the pressure comes on he can't kick a barn door with a banjo.

In truth Sexton is the same but he uses that mean scowl to make it look at least like he'll knock the next one over, whereas Jackson has that guilty schoolboy look about him that makes you think he missed the bloody thing on purpose and thinks it's funny.

by LordDowlais Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:20 pm

BBC Sport are now reporting on the citing:-

Leinster and Ireland back Fergus McFadden has been cited following an alleged stamping incident in the Pro12 win over Connacht on New Year's Day.

A Pro12 statement said that the incident happened in the eighth minute of Leinster's 13-0 win.

Video footage showed McFadden appearing to make contact with the head of Connacht's Nathan White during a ruck.

Under rule 10.4, which includes stamping or "trampling", an offence can lead to a ban of a number of weeks.

The statement said that the citing hearing would "take place shortly".

Leinster moved above Connacht into second place in the Pro12 table after winning the Irish inter-provincial derby.

McFadden has 29 Ireland caps but missed out on a place in the squad for the World Cup.

by Golden Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:28 pm

Expect McFadden to miss a few weeks over this going by the below footage. The initial incident looks harmless enough but then he seems to kick out at Whites head a number of times.

https://mobile.twitter.com/tomsauce2000/status/683409371368390657

by whocares Mon 04 Jan 2016, 2:46 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:BB have played 5 different flyhalfs this season,so they really don't have anyone nailed down to that position. Also Guitone and AAC have been doing really well as a center partnership lately for them. There is no doubt he is being signed mainly as a 10.

How much of that was forced by injury? I think Bernard is the incumbent and he's a decent player. If they have 5 available as you make out then it doesn't seem to make much sense to sign a sixth. I would imagine Madigan has been signed up with the intention of playing more than just one position. I think for now he would be best suited between Bernard and AAC. They could also shift AAC I guess seeing as he can play anywhere.

Madigan has been signed to play as 10 but also to help at 12 if needed be as we're a bit light there to be honest (only have Rey and Le Bourhis as decent players who can fit there, rest is just U21). I suppose that Madigan wants to play fly half first ? In any case he offers a good alternative to Bernard who is not a great runner ball in hand but has solid kicking game. In my opinion Madigan fits better for the game we want to play. Also Expect one of Beauxis and Bernard to leave as well (Bernard was linked to Montpelier to replace Trinh Duc, Beauxis is getting a bit old). Also need to see what happens to Hickley, the injury cover FH from NZ who has been pretty honest so far. AAC and Guitoune do combine very well indeed(shame Guitoune is going to Toulouse) as both can play 13/14 which helps I suppose.

by LordDowlais Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:17 pm

Fergus McFadden gets a three week ban for stamping, making nice and fresh and available for the 6N, if Ireland pick him.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35250793

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:28 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Fergus McFadden gets a three week ban for stamping, making nice and fresh and available for the 6N, if Ireland pick him.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35250793

He won't be in the Ireland team for 6N's. is there a touch a parnoia in that comment. 3 week ban seems fair for a guy with no history

by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:34 pm

GoodinTightSpaces wrote: 3 week ban seems fair for a guy with no history

Was the thug Healy's 2 week ban fair, given his history then??

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:36 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
GoodinTightSpaces wrote: 3 week ban seems fair for a guy with no history

Was the thug Healy's 2 week ban fair, given his history then??

no need for name calling now is there. I think you are just being a big meany pants!

by Pete330v2 Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:38 pm

McFadden wouldn't likely have been on the Irish radar for the 6 nations so I don't know where the misguided assumptions are coming from. Extreme tin foil hat needed there.

by LordDowlais Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:39 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:McFadden wouldn't likely have been on the Irish radar for the 6 nations so I don't know where the misguided assumptions are coming from. Extreme tin foil hat needed there.

I said the words "if Ireland pick him" the IF, you know IF. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, he comes back just in time to cover for the 6N.

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 07 Jan 2016, 12:43 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:McFadden wouldn't likely have been on the Irish radar for the 6 nations so I don't know where the misguided assumptions are coming from. Extreme tin foil hat needed there.

I said the words "if Ireland pick him" the IF, you know IF.

Anyway, he comes back just in time to cover for the 6N.

I think it is the hint of conspiracy in your post. as if he is only getting 3 weeks so irelands star player will be back in time

by LordDowlais Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:03 pm

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:irelands star player will be back in time

When have I ever said this !!!!

by GoodinTightSpaces Thu 07 Jan 2016, 1:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
GoodinTightSpaces wrote:irelands star player will be back in time

When have I ever said this !!!!

Oh god no one ever has said that about McFadden. It was very much tongue in cheek comment to get a point across

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 07 Jan 2016, 3:48 pm

The auto-outrage is great at times on here.
Player cited for stamp on an opponent during a game;
Outcome 1 - No ban (outrage at player getting away with it)
Outcome 2 - ban (outrage at player being given a rest)

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 07 Jan 2016, 3:55 pm

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
GoodinTightSpaces wrote: 3 week ban seems fair for a guy with no history

Was the thug Healy's 2 week ban fair, given his history then??

no need for name calling now is there. I think you are just being a big meany pants!

What was the deal with Healy's ban? He was cited for contravening a specific rule. The hearing sat to give him the opportunity to defend himself. They concluded he didn't break that rule. So they banned him under another rule even though they gave the accused player no prior notice or time to prepare a defense.

Suppose mute point anyway, Healy will be out for 4 weeks.

by The Great Aukster Thu 07 Jan 2016, 5:26 pm

Is he jumping on the banned wagon?

by Sin é Thu 28 Jan 2016, 3:40 pm

So, according to Indo today Earls contract is worth 300k and Murray's 400k per annum.

On Off the Ball last night, Gerry Thornley said that the IRFU have reduced player contributions to Provinces. it seems they used to give them about 130k contribution towards NIQ players, now they are only giving 90K which might explain why IQ players are so much in demand now!

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