Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

munkian wrote:I'd be surprised if Dixon was not even considered - Gats is a fan

Im sure he was considered, as he was called up into the training squad, but what I meant is he was not considered worth testing out considering it will most likely be Roberts, Williams and Morgan going to the RWC as centres, with North as cover (Annscome as emergency cover too).

Fairy nuff, Leach is still injured so I wouldn't mind him back.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder about the players not included vs Ireland in Cardiff, those that are not obvious selections.

Patchell, Gareth Davies, Francis, Thornton and Dixon.

Are they still in contention?

Personally I read it as

Patchell, Dixon and Thornton not even consided

Davies, Francis (and Preistland) not needed to be 'tested' as they are already on the plane.

finally! yes this is exactly what it means

I must say, I do not always agree with what Dafydd James comes out with but it is hard to argue with this:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/33857478

I still think Philipps has a job to do but i agree hook is toast. philipp's experience is crucial to a squad that effectively needs two first teams and i think he will get the nod over Davies/Williams but not sure which.
Our consistency in selection has done our legs on depth in the squad, especially in the backs.Throw in a couple of injuries and we are in trouble frankly.
We need to put out a 2nd string of sorts v Fiji and the likes of him, Paul James, Brad Davies and Ball, even Lydiate (who i think may get pipped by Tipuric v England) may form the core of that team. Some first XV players will have to play though.

My 2nd XV looks something like this
James, Owens, Francis
Davies, Ball
Lydiate, Tipuric, King
Philipps
Priestland (prefer Anscombe)
Walker
Roberts
Morgan
Amos
Anscombe

backed up by a strong bench!!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder about the players not included vs Ireland in Cardiff, those that are not obvious selections.

Patchell, Gareth Davies, Francis, Thornton and Dixon.

Are they still in contention?

Personally I read it as

Patchell, Dixon and Thornton not even consided

Davies, Francis (and Preistland) not needed to be 'tested' as they are already on the plane.

I think Patchell could be a useful lad to hang on to. He is a great attacking player from fly half, fullback and centre. Good in defence too

With regards Dixon and T Morgan I think its a simple case of Dixon is more in the mould of Roberts and Morgan more in the role of JD.

If Roberts had been ruled out instead of JD then I think it would be Dixon going and not Morgan, it maybe a bit earlier for both of them but well thats the name of the game sometimes

I thought Morgan did well last Saturday. Unspectacular but solid enough, more to come as he finds his feet.

What about Cory Allen though?

I like him a lot Maes but he had hardly any game time last season due to injury so I think he will miss out.

Real paucity of back talent once the front rank are crocked. Now is not the time to be blooding Morgan, Walker or Amos but the fact is we may have to. We desperately need Sanjay to be fit because i think North could play a part in the centres.

maestegmafia wrote:I thought Morgan did well last Saturday. Unspectacular but solid enough, more to come as he finds his feet.

He was never going to see much ball outside Hook.

Any news on Cory Allen...?

maestegmafia wrote:I think Patchell could be a useful lad to hang on to. He is a great attacking player from fly half, fullback and centre. Good in defence too

Sad truth is that the NDC boys are all going to the RWC if fit.

So that means Annscome will be going as the utility type fly half, no matter whether e is a better option than Patch or not. Same as Rhodri Jones would have been going as a tighthead regardless too.

That has always been a worry for me with regards the DCs though I do think Anscombe proved me wrong on Saturday and certainly jumped ahead of Hook for the utility place.

I think Amos could step up on the wing no problem if need be but agree that it could be to early for T Morgan if he is needed.

bedfordwelsh wrote:That has always been a worry for me with regards the DCs though I do think Anscombe proved me wrong on Saturday and certainly jumped ahead of Hook for the utility place.

I think Amos could step up on the wing no problem if need be but agree that it could be to early for T Morgan if he is needed.

It could be to early for him but he will go and he will get game time.

Also, I agree the kiwi lad did prove me wrong at the weekend too, he is definitely a far superior fly half than Hook.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:That has always been a worry for me with regards the DCs though I do think Anscombe proved me wrong on Saturday and certainly jumped ahead of Hook for the utility place.

I think Amos could step up on the wing no problem if need be but agree that it could be to early for T Morgan if he is needed.

It could be to early for him but he will go and he will get game time.

Also, I agree the kiwi lad did prove me wrong at the weekend too, he is definitely a far superior fly half than Hook.

SS,

I have no doubt he will go and possibly play against Uruguay and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if he did shine as he is a class act but maybe the whole experience might be to much at mo. Time will tell I guess.

bedfordwelsh wrote:That has always been a worry for me with regards the DCs though I do think Anscombe proved me wrong on Saturday and certainly jumped ahead of Hook for the utility place.

I think Amos could step up on the wing no problem if need be but agree that it could be to early for T Morgan if he is needed.

Amos played on the wing pretty much every game for us last season and was excellent.

Pienar is probably still recovering from that hand off.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think Patchell could be a useful lad to hang on to. He is a great attacking player from fly half, fullback and centre. Good in defence too

Sad truth is that the NDC boys are all going to the RWC if fit.

So that means Annscome will be going as the utility type fly half, no matter whether e is a better option than Patch or not.  Same as Rhodri Jones would have been going as a tighthead regardless too.

I don't think the NDC has preference, I think Anscombe is probably the better man for the job. Taking the ball flat and fast at first receiver is what we need.

Patchells biggest plus point is his long range kicking

maestegmafia wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I think Patchell could be a useful lad to hang on to. He is a great attacking player from fly half, fullback and centre. Good in defence too

Sad truth is that the NDC boys are all going to the RWC if fit.

So that means Annscome will be going as the utility type fly half, no matter whether e is a better option than Patch or not.  Same as Rhodri Jones would have been going as a tighthead regardless too.

I don't think the NDC has preference, I think Anscombe is probably the better man for the job. Taking the ball flat and fast at first receiver is what we need.

Patchells biggest plus point is his long range kicking

Oh but it does. That said, I can't see why they put Rhodri Jones on one. Bench warmer at best and I don't ever remember him making an impact when he's come on to the field of play. Also Dixon is on a DC but I don't think he will make the final cut. He'll probably be on standby though should anything happen to Roberts.

Patchell will be a good player someday. Up to now he hasn't really shown anything bar promise for the Blues team. More often than not he has been a shining light in a very poor team, and the only player who looks as if he is putting effort in. But I don't think he's been consistent enough. Anscombe will go over him - he had successful cameo and S15 is pretty much international level intensity.

Wales coach Warren Gatland has dropped British and Irish Lions trio Mike Phillips, James Hook and hooker Richard Hibbard from his 2015 World Cup training squad.
They are joined by less-experienced players Nicky Smith, Rory Thornton, Dan Baker, Rhys Patchell and Jack Dixon in having their tournament hopes dashed.

Couple of surprises there, I thought Phillips was OK behind a well beaten pack on Saturday and Lloyd Williams, when he came on, was caught in possession to often. Hibbard was poor but I expected him to go as 3rd choice hooker. Dan Barker did not shine but has looked World Class for the Ospreys. No surprise at Hook being dropped though, he is now probably behind Patchell and Owen Williams (when fit) also.

Dropping Phillips and Hibbard is a big call! I'd have had them there as third choice at least.

But I guess that Gats has one eye on next year also, so probably a good call. I think a few people will be happy to know that Phillips and Hook's days in the jersey are over though.

Who was it that said Dixon will definitely travel as a winger?

Not I...

Good to exposee some of these players to the Wales environment for an extended amount of time (Thornton, Dixon amd Patchell). Suprised that Dacey made the cut over Hibbard. Also it's a shame that Baker didn't take his chance as we need someone to push Tobes in that 8 shirt. With Hook and Phillips i think it's been coming. Also them playing their rugby away from Wales may have been a factor.

I thought that big bearded 8 at the Turks might have made the squad or is he too inconsistent ?

munkian wrote:I thought that big bearded 8 at the Turks might have made the squad or is he too inconsistent ?

He needs to learn to catch a ball first.

Rory Pitman, he looked very good start of last season. I thought he'd be in with a shout as well but he looks to be carrying some weight and also Gatland likes his ballplayers. I've found Pitman to be very bish bash bosh which Wales need i think. I'm sure ScarletSpiderman can offer a much better reason for his non selection.

Didn't Moriarty play some 8 at Gloucester? Clearly he feels his back row can double up ok then.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Who was it that said  Dixon will definitely travel as a winger?

Absolutely noone ever said Dixon would travel as a winger...

However my comments re Amos at fullback look less foolish now don't they, and had I played Dixon on the wing at least he would have got a few minutes of rugby in before being dropped...

Phillips and Hook were horror show at 9 and 10, pack was beaten up, but Lloyd Williams looked a breath of fresh air behind the pack getting beaten even worse!!!

Nicky Smith was always getting dropped too.

Big surprise for me wasn't th big 3 names, as they didn't look good, but Matthew Morgan staying and Patchell being dropped, and then Dan Baker not being given another shout. He was missing for most of the game, but he had no platform, and we don't have much back up to Falatau!

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Who was it that said  Dixon will definitely travel as a winger?

Absolutely noone ever said Dixon would travel as a winger...

However my comments re Amos at fullback look less foolish now don't they, and had I played Dixon on the wing at least he would have got a few minutes of rugby in before being dropped...

Phillips and Hook were  horror show at 9 and 10, pack was beaten up, but Lloyd Williams looked a breath of fresh air behind the pack getting beaten even worse!!!

Nicky Smith was always getting dropped too.

Big surprise for me wasn't th big 3 names, as they didn't look good, but Matthew Morgan staying and Patchell being dropped, and then Dan Baker not being given another shout. He was missing for most of the game, but he had no platform, and we don't have much back up to Falatau!

I don't think anyone disputed Amos covering 15.

I cannot understand what Matthew Morgan gives at international level. Or even profesisonal level.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Who was it that said  Dixon will definitely travel as a winger?

Absolutely noone ever said Dixon would travel as a winger...

However my comments re Amos at fullback look less foolish now don't they, and had I played Dixon on the wing at least he would have got a few minutes of rugby in before being dropped...

Phillips and Hook were  horror show at 9 and 10, pack was beaten up, but Lloyd Williams looked a breath of fresh air behind the pack getting beaten even worse!!!

Nicky Smith was always getting dropped too.

Big surprise for me wasn't th big 3 names, as they didn't look good, but Matthew Morgan staying and Patchell being dropped, and then Dan Baker not being given another shout. He was missing for most of the game, but he had no platform, and we don't have much back up to Falatau!

I don't think anyone disputed Amos covering 15.

I cannot understand what Matthew Morgan gives at international level. Or even profesisonal level.

I think Matthew Morgan is seen as the ace in the hole, the livewire who comes on 10 to go when your down by 5-9 and told to rip it up, other than that I see no benefit in him whatsoever!!!

Fanster wrote:
I think Matthew Morgan is seen as the ace in the hole, the livewire who comes on 10 to go when your down by 5-9 and told to rip it up, other than that I see no benefit in him whatsoever!!!

To waste a world cup squad place on such a player is nonsensical.

I can't see him taking M Morgan and Anscombe so for me Anscombe will go.

As for the 8 dropped today then only Hibbard is the big surprise for me, I am not shocked he dropped Phillips but I am not a Lloyd Williams fan one bit.

With Baker being dropped that leaves only Taulupe as the specialist No8 so guessing he will Moriarty or possibly Warburton as back up if need be.

Morgan seems like the type of player who would thrive (in attack) against Fiji. If the game opens up he can cut teams. We may need every point we can get in that game if points difference is a factor. He is a livewire in attack. But much like Bristol, you'd take him off for a more rounded player in tight games.

Could we see a possible...

6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Warburton

Combination at some point...

Someone get the cotton wool out, Falatau needs it!!!

Afternoon guys. Having not looked at these boards for a few months, I must say I'm a little surprised by the current levels of sense and decorum being exhibited. Sadly, I’m sure it will all be swept away in the coming weeks. Anyway, for now it’s nice to see!

The only real surprise for me is Hibbard – genuinely shocked to see him omitted, since we all know how committed he has proved to be in big games. He must have really fallen off the pace or upset Gatland in some way.

As for Matthew Morgan – I’ve always had a feeling he might make the squad (even before the training squad was announced). We know he’s tiny and weak and all that, but let’s not forget this pool may well come down to points difference and we will therefore need to rack up an absolute cricket score against Uruguay (not sure it’ll be possible against Fiji this year!). We can’t play our 1st team in all matches and someone like Morgan might be able to run tries in from all over the place against a weak team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes the final cut - and if he does, I think he’ll play in the Uruguay game and be on the bench against Fiji.

Coleman wrote:Morgan seems like the type of player who would thrive (in attack) against Fiji. If the game opens up he can cut teams. We may need every point we can get in that game if points difference is a factor. He is a livewire in attack. But much like Bristol, you'd take him off for a more rounded player in tight games.

Are you Gareth Jenkins?

Coleman wrote:Morgan seems like the type of player who would thrive (in attack) against Fiji. If the game opens up he can cut teams. We may need every point we can get in that game if points difference is a factor. He is a livewire in attack. But much like Bristol, you'd take him off for a more rounded player in tight games.

He couldn't start against Fiji we can't play them at their own game we need to play a structured game then if it does open up and we are already points ahead then he could be electric but again I don't think he will go.

Fanster wrote:Could we see a possible...

6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Warburton

Combination at some point...

Someone get the cotton wool out, Falatau needs it!!!

Perhaps Gats watched the Oz game on the weekend and finally gave into the idea after seeing Hooper/Pocock in the same back row!

If Faletau doesn't play it's because he's injured.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Coleman wrote:Morgan seems like the type of player who would thrive (in attack) against Fiji. If the game opens up he can cut teams. We may need every point we can get in that game if points difference is a factor. He is a livewire in attack. But much like Bristol, you'd take him off for a more rounded player in tight games.

He couldn't start against Fiji we can't play them at their own game we need to play a structured game then if it does open up and we are already points ahead then he could be electric but again I don't think he will go.

I did mean off of the bench. I think he might go. As he can cover wing, fullback, flyhalf and in a pinch scrumhalf i'd wager. He isn't a starter and i agree with you that we need to maintain our structure against Fiji.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:

Fanster wrote:Could we see a possible...

6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Warburton

Combination at some point...

Someone get the cotton wool out, Falatau needs it!!!

Perhaps Gats watched the Oz game on the weekend and finally gave into the idea after seeing Hooper/Pocock in the same back row!

It does seemingly look like a trend of 2 poachers per back row...

When would you try it though as in the pool stages I can only see Warburton playing against England and Australia.

Chunky Norwich wrote:If Faletau doesn't play it's because he's injured.

Agreed, a Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau combo much more likely

As a Blues fan I am torn. It is fantastic that Dacey and Williams have been given an opportunity, but also would be great to have them back at the Blues for the start of the season.

Lloyd Williams was rumoured to be made captain, wonder if that will happen now?

606,

Have never rated Williams but he did do better than Phillips when he came on. Was his form any good really last year, not from what I seen but then again I guess if you don't like a player you are blinkered in same way as if you do rate him.

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

Have never rated Williams but he did do better than Phillips when he came on.  Was his form any good really last year, not from what I seen but then again I guess if you don't like a player you are blinkered in same way as if you do rate him.

He was back to his best at the end of last season. He has certainly be terrible in the the past, but he is now back to where he was when he was second choice for Wales at the last world cup.

Fair enough to him then, like said not my choice and I think I would still have taken Phillips as 3rd choice but am not surprised to see him dropped.