Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

maestegmafia wrote:So...!

Talk from Jonathan Davies on Scrum v was to start the first game on Sunday with a near full strength team.

Despite injuries incurred last match

I think injuries occurred because there were players trying to be either individual stars to sneak into the first team, or trying to avoid picking up knocks by being less physical than normal.

Hopefully with it being a RWC game there will be no reason for those attitudes.

munkian wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Just been watching Gavin Henson play for Bristol.

Is his international days rugby done altogether?

Or has he simply fell out of favour with Gatland and the rest of the coaching team?

I think it's more a case of falling out ...without the favour at the end.  It seems he's fallen out with too many people in Wales period - players, coaches, teams and tea ladies.

I'm not sure how much he draws it upon himself or simply how much his attitude of uber-confidence just seems to rub people up the wrong way.  I've never seen too much that was exceedinly offensive in his nature - a messer yes, a self publicist yes, a guy who can't help getting fisted in the face when drunk seemingly...yes .... but overall, I think there are worse than old Henson and his reputation lost him his chances not his talent, which to me was always potent enough to be included in a Welsh squad

I wouldn't say it was anything to do with falling out.  He looked good pre RWC 2011 then suffered a nasty injury against England. Since then he's been shifted between positions then played in a lower league and was injured again. He still looks good mind but is probably too old to be considered along with his lack of higher level game time.

Em...I don't think I'm saying he's not being picked directly because he's fallen out with too many people.  I was simply stating the isolated fact that 'fallen out' was probably a more accurate term for Gavin's history than 'fallen out of favour' is.  

But I guess that point did indeed run on and then allude to the fact that yes, falling out can have an impact on what players get chosen by any team (club or International).
Look at the fall out between Gats and Adam Jones.  But that friction can run through to players too.  Gavin supposedly burned a lot of bridges and players themselves wouldn't be beyond letting their coaches know how happy or otherwise they'd be to see a disruptive player return.  Camp harmony would be important.

SecretFly wrote:Camp harmony would be important.

Is that the name of a band on the X Factor?

Horses for courses XV for Uruguay apart from Samson and LW who need game time - I'd play Walker and Matthew Morgan but give GD and DB time together at Half back. Tips Warbs at 8 and ? for a fast back row. I might be talking out my arxe but I'm getting excited. Amos possibly in the Centre as well. We need to score trys which is something we have failed to do of late. We can't start playing in the 2nd half as we did v Italy in the 6 Nations as good as that was, it was too late. No time to play catch up.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So...!

Talk from Jonathan Davies on Scrum v was to start the first game on Sunday with a near full strength team.

Despite injuries incurred last match

I think injuries occurred because there were players trying to be either individual stars to sneak into the first team, or trying to avoid picking up knocks by being less physical than normal.

Hopefully with it being a RWC game there will be no reason for those attitudes.

Seriously can Wales afford not to put out their best players on sunday? This is no warm up game this the RUGBY WORLD CUP. Surely it is in Wales best interest, as it is with every other team's best interest too put out their best players at all time.

We need to put out the best team to beat Uruguay Maj - That might not be the best team per se'

RubyGuby wrote:We need to put out the best team to beat Uruguay Maj - That might not be the best team per se'

RubyGuby


Do not underestimate any team in the RWC, if you do you may be in for a shock.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So...!

Talk from Jonathan Davies on Scrum v was to start the first game on Sunday with a near full strength team.

Despite injuries incurred last match

I think injuries occurred because there were players trying to be either individual stars to sneak into the first team, or trying to avoid picking up knocks by being less physical than normal.

Hopefully with it being a RWC game there will be no reason for those attitudes.

Interesting perspective mate.



Injury is part n parcel pf the sport. There will be more to come. Hence JDs suggestions towards pick a core spine of the team from our first choices...

I'd put out a strong team against Uruguy, we need to put a score on them because England and Australia will and if it comes down to points difference we'll need all the help we can get.

I agree, though I think a half decent second string should be able to put Uruguay away easily enough.

Interesting that Jiffy also thinks Dan Biggar should be saved until the England game. There's another one who obviously doesn't rate Priestland.

MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

Ok. Biggar plays v Uruguay and gets crocked

World cup is over

IMO Biggar won't and doesnt need to play longer than 30 minutes if at all to get the feel of playing with Davies who IMO will play as he is clearly going to start against Eng

Fact is unless we play a 2nd team v Urugauy- which i think is sensible- then every player is on offer for injury but  Wales are unique in their weakness in depth now; our first string is as good as nay but our 2nd string is not. We couldn't afford the 3rd warm up - Uruguay was the 3rd warm up.

Biggar must be preserved. Likewise AWJ, Gethin, Sam, Doc and North.

Lee and Williams must be risked

Here is team i want to see

James, Baldwin, Lee
Ball, Davies
Tipuric, King, Moriarty
Davies Biggar
Amos
Allen, Scott Williams
Sanjay

Bench
Gethin (only if absolutely necessary), Owens, Francis
Daly, Faletau (only if absolutely necessary)
Philipps, Cuthbert, Morgan

Eli Walker replaced by Ross Moriarty. What the chuff.

"Wales wing Eli Walker’s World Cup dream has been shattered after the Ospreys star was ruled out of the tournament pool stages with a hamstring injury."

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-release-injured-eli-walker-10056037

Shocked Moriarty has been called up before a 3rd hooker (Dacey).

Lets get this right:

1 FB, 3 wingers and 3 centres - Seven players covering five starting positions. Not a lot of room for manoeuvre.

6 back rowers and 5 second rows - Eleven players covering five starting spots.


is that correct, or am i missing something?

wales606 wrote:Shocked Moriarty has been called up before a 3rd hooker (Dacey).

I think Moriarty did himself a few favours against Italy, great break when he first came on

LondonTiger wrote:Lets get this right:

1 FB, 3 wingers and 3 centres - Seven players covering five starting positions. Not a lot of room for manoeuvre.

6 back rowers and 5 second rows - Eleven players covering five starting spots.


is that correct, or am i missing something?

Kind of

There seem to be 11 backs:

FB coverage x3: Sanjay, Amos, Morgan
Wing x5: Sanjay, North, Cuthbert, Amos, Morgan
Centre x4: Doc, Scott, Allen, North (MP has played there too)
FH x 3: Biggar, Priestland, Morgan
SH X 3: Davies, Williams, Philipps

Needless to say that each player is almost invariably covering more than 1 spot. Gatland has always favored players that can cover more than 1 position due to the lack of strength in depth we have but it may be coming back to bite him on his arse. I would feel much more comfortable if Anscombe was in to cover 10 and 15.

maestegmafia wrote:MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

He clearly insinuated that he would not play Biggar in the Uruguay game and stated that Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. He knows like I know that if we have to rely on Priestland as first choice then we will be exiting the pool.

Biggar probably doesn't need to play. The only advantage is familiarity with GD but they had an hour under the cosh v Italy

Biggar is the polar opposite of Preistland. Decisive, cocky, confident to the point of arrogance, balls out, physical, verbal.

Pick our strongest possible side available get the job done then use the bench.

A lot of these players haven't had much gametime so they need to get some under their belt before the England game, Davies and Biggar need to try and gel and Scott Williams and Roberts haven't played a lot together. Likewise is it will be a new back 3 so give them some time as a unit.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

He clearly insinuated that he would not play Biggar in the Uruguay game and stated that Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. He knows like I know that if we have to rely on Priestland as first choice then we will be exiting the pool.

Are you talking about Jiffy on Scrum V? If so he said Biggar should play, it was Ross Harris who said wrap him in cotton wool

bedfordwelsh wrote:It will be a new back 3 so give them some time as a unit.

If Amos doesn't start, or get decent game time against Uruguay, then we'll have to start with Cuthbert against England. If Cuthbert starts against England, they will have a field day down his wing.

I would not want to have to mark Watson, he looks class.

Worries me that he's called up Moriarty, not that he doesn't deserve a chance.  Is Gatland indecisive, stubborn or just plain wrong?

We have an 18 / 13 forward / back split now, with just 8 players that can cover 5 outside positions. Of those 8 players, one is in shocking form (Cuthbert), one is returning from a long injury (Williams) and three with virtually no test experience (Morgan, Amos, Allen).  Even with 18 forwards we still only have two hookers!

I just don't get it.  We are taking a massive gamble.

Well I have just opened up, and somebody has just came in and just told me that Eli Walker has been ruled out of the WC with a hamstring injury. So I guess that puts the Amos/Walker argument to bed. What I do not get is why replace him with Ross Moriarty ?

LordDowlais wrote:Well I have just opened up, and somebody has just came in and just told me that Eli Walker has been ruled out of the WC with a hamstring injury. So I guess that puts the Amos/Walker argument to bed. What I do not get is why replace him with Ross Moriarty ?

Tipuric switching to center ?

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Well I have just opened up, and somebody has just came in and just told me that Eli Walker has been ruled out of the WC with a hamstring injury. So I guess that puts the Amos/Walker argument to bed. What I do not get is why replace him with Ross Moriarty ?

Tipuric switching to center ?

That would not surprise me one bit.

majesticimperialman wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:We need to put out the best team to beat Uruguay Maj - That might not be the best team per se'

RubyGuby


Do not underestimate any team in the RWC, if you do you may be in for a shock.

Maj - you are misreading me - I want the team that's best suited to beating Uruguay, the best. The team that will put them to the sword in a ruthless fashion. That team for me would include Matthew Morgan, Tipuric, Amos and Liam Williams. Warburton 8 Tips 7 and Moriarty 6 - Fast and furious.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Well I have just opened up, and somebody has just came in and just told me that Eli Walker has been ruled out of the WC with a hamstring injury. So I guess that puts the Amos/Walker argument to bed. What I do not get is why replace him with Ross Moriarty ?

Tipuric switching to center ?

That would not surprise me one bit.

That could be interesting against England, as they are playing a flanker as a centre.

From the outside it looks as if Gatland has only one team in mind to play all the games, with the other players acting as travelling reserves and tackle bag holders.

lostinwales wrote:From the outside it looks as if Gatland has only one team in mind to play all the games, with the other players acting as travelling reserves and tackle bag holders.

I think that strategy would account for most of the top teams - Its called having a relatively settled side with those slotting in seamlessly in the event of injuries as per LW, SW and GD -

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

He clearly insinuated that he would not play Biggar in the Uruguay game and stated that Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. He knows like I know that if we have to rely on Priestland as first choice then we will be exiting the pool.

Jonathan Davies BBC Sports wrote:Biggar 'must start'
Fly-half Dan Biggar has been suggested as one of the influential players who Gatland should rest against Uruguay to ensure Wales are not further weakened by injury before facing England in the second game.

But Davies is certain the 25-year-old must play for two reasons; firstly to develop a new half-back partnership following Webb's absence at scrum-half, and to become accustomed to the pressure of being an international goal-kicker as he has assumed the goal-kicking duties from Halfpenny.

"Dan is a great kicker and he's got to start," said Davies, who believes Gareth Davies should start at scrum-half.

He clearly did not.
I think by all accounts he started that Wales should play their strongest team from the start. If he suggested (which he didn't) that Biggar shouldn't play then he must think that The Priest is in the strongest team (which he doesn't). However he did suggest bringing RP on when the games breaks up.

Like most of the teams, Wales will play their strongest team to start but against the weaker teams bring on some "close calls" on around the 50 min e.g. Gareth Davies will be replaced by Mike Phillips, Tuperic will replace Lydiate, Jake Ball will replace Charteris, and dare I say it even the likes of Matthew Morgan and RP will come on for the last 20

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

He clearly insinuated that he would not play Biggar in the Uruguay game and stated that Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. He knows like I know that if we have to rely on Priestland as first choice then we will be exiting the pool.

Are you talking about Jiffy on Scrum V?  If so he said Biggar should play, it was Ross Harris who said wrap him in cotton wool

Whilst overlooking flyhalffactory's desperate rebukes against me, yes I got the people mixed up. Clearly Harries doesn't rate Priestland either (70% isn't a good kicking rate either), while Jiffy is the one who will chuck him a MOTM award for not missing a kick to touch. Like you though, I've said all along I would play our best team from this game forward. If you think about it our top players haven't played together as much as other teams have done in the build up to this tournament.

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:MD

JD wants bigger to play, he said that he would bring onpriestland later on I the game.

I don't think he has an issue with priestland at all.

His main point in playing Biggar was to get him some game time goal kicking practice.

He clearly insinuated that he would not play Biggar in the Uruguay game and stated that Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. He knows like I know that if we have to rely on Priestland as first choice then we will be exiting the pool.

Are you talking about Jiffy on Scrum V?  If so he said Biggar should play, it was Ross Harris who said wrap him in cotton wool

Whilst overlooking flyhalffactory's desperate rebukes against me, yes I got the people mixed up. Clearly Harries doesn't rate Priestland either (70% isn't a good kicking rate either), while Jiffy is the one who will chuck him a MOTM award for not missing a kick to touch. Like you though, I've said all along I would play our best team from this game forward. If you think about it our top players haven't played together as much as other teams have done in the build up to this tournament.

Not a rebuke against you at all. I just listened to your Scrum 5 on the sky and commented on the fact that Jiffy said the exact opposite and in fact Ross Harris said to wrap a number of key players up in the light of the recent injuries but particularly Biggar as he is a first class kicker and with 1/2p injured you haven't really got anybody else who is consistent. Ross Harries qualified that by stating the RP is an excellent attacking threat as a pivotal 10.

Sorry but there isn't one sentence that suggests Ross Harries doesn't rate him.

I agree 70% is not good enough to be the first choice kicker and that is why RP is behind 1/2p, Biggar and Anscombe is that particular role. However just to reiterate Ross Harries never once said that he didn't rate RP, but he did say maybe Gats should wrap certain players up in cotton wool.

What's desperate about my comments by the way?.... is it that I told you that the facts you clearly spout are clearly not facts at all and just your opinion or is there something else I have written that is desperate?

Oh please. You've been writing desperate drivel at me for days. Perhaps if you appreciated that some paying supporters who have watched Wales play for a long time may harbour a different opinion than yours, you might find yourself getting less uptight. After all, it's merely an opinion and it happens to be our right to express it. I can appreciate if some don't agree with me, but when an outsider who openly admits he hasn't watched much rugby for the past year tries to point out your wrong by alluding to irrelevant information, that's when I take offence!

Yes there is, the fact that he alluded to goal kicking percentages and that he suggested Biggar should be wrapped in cotton wool. There is another one who realises the obvious; if Priestland is first choice 10 then we will be lucky to win a single game. Just look at his last start for Wales against low ranked opposition, it was probably the worst performance from an international fly-half that has ever been witnesses (unless you rate Hook at the 2011 World Cup as worse).

No I think you need to go back and have a read of some comments. Or did you already read them and tell yourself something else? Cue some more irrelevant info from flyhalffactory.

Can you tell me what I said was desperate drivel and what was irrelevant?.

Your opinion that RP is useless and if he plays Wales will play rubbish and lose games is ok, but when you try to speak on behalf of individuals or even worse the entire nation then you lose all credibility.

You stated he had rubbish games in 2012 & 2014, I asked you in what area specifically and you dont qualify your sweeping statements but instead get personal with your remarks. So I make relevant points about his performances by people who should be more qualified to assess him to his performance i.e. Ryan Jones, Warren Gatland, Rob Jones, Rob Howley, Sean etc etc. Now thats not being desperate or irrelevant!, but it is ensuring that I am not looking like an idiot by making a sweeping statement without relevant backup.

By the way, to repeat this to you for the last time, I have seen a lot of LIVE games last season, in fact all the 6Ns Scotland matches including Wales for the six seasons and only missed a couple over the last decade, I was a Os season ticket holder when I was in Wales for a while (three seasons), I am an Edinburgh season tickets holder and even been down to Wales last season to watch us play the Os and Blues. I originally stated I havent watched enough of RP to to agree or disagree with you that he hasnt played well since 2011/2, but I know that many AP teams including Wasp, Northants and of course Bath were after him for this season so he cant have played that poorly. So tell me do you actually go to watch your team live and Wales live?

I have read my comments and I do believe they are all relevant and specific to your personal sweeping statements

flyhalffactory wrote:Your opinion that RP is useless and if he plays Wales will play rubbish and lose games is ok, but when you try to speak on behalf of individuals or even worse the entire nation then you lose all credibility.

Well said.

flyhalffactory wrote:Can you tell me what I said was desperate drivel and what was irrelevant?.

Your opinion that RP is useless and if he plays Wales will play rubbish and lose games is ok, but when you try to speak on behalf of individuals or even worse the entire nation then you lose all credibility.

You stated he had rubbish games in 2012 & 2014, I asked you in what area specifically and you dont qualify your sweeping statements but instead get personal with your remarks. So I make relevant points about his performances by people who should be more qualified to assess him to his performance i.e. Ryan Jones, Warren Gatland, Rob Jones, Rob Howley, Sean etc etc. Now thats not being desperate or irrelevant!, but it is ensuring that I am not looking like an idiot by making a sweeping statement without relevant backup.

By the way, to repeat this to you for the last time, I have seen a lot of LIVE games last season, in fact all the 6Ns Scotland matches including Wales for the six seasons and only missed a couple over the last decade, I was a Os season ticket holder when I was in Wales for a while (three seasons), I am an Edinburgh season tickets holder and even been down to Wales last season to watch us play the Os and Blues. I originally stated I havent watched enough of RP to to agree or disagree with you that he hasnt played well since 2011/2, but I know that many AP teams including Wasp, Northants and of course Bath were after him for this season so he cant have played that poorly. So tell me do you actually go to watch your team live and Wales live?

I have read my comments and I do believe they are all relevant and specific to your personal sweeping statements

I clearly pointed it out in my earlier replies to you.

Fair enough, but I can openly admit I don't speak on behalf of anyone other than myself. You lost all credibility by not only posting irrelevant info, but by also admitting you hadn't watched much Welsh rugby whilst trying to rubbish the opinions of those that have been watching Welsh rugby.

If you go back and read some of my posts again I actually pinpointed some games. I suggest you have another read. There aren't many more examples in more recent times, such is the level of faith in Priestland by those that coach him. Most of his game time this season for Wales has mostly been 5-10 minute cameo's. His last start for Wales he put on a horror show. What do you expect them to say exactly? "Yeah he's crap." If they had faith in him then he would have had more game time. As I've previously alluded to Priestland is not the only player who has been a victim of verbal attack, yet is the only one who has been given a public confidence boost, ergo the comments by Jones, Edwards, etc. The reason you brought that into it was because you don't watch Welsh rugby like I do. When judging his performance by observation and stats, those comments from the coaches and players you referred to become irrelevant. You've posted more irrelevant stuff but again I've already pointed this out, so before you ask trying skipping back a couple pages.

What you're telling me here again seems somewhat irrelevant, and I asked you to back up your comments regarding how multiple teams in France and England were after his signature. You still haven't. Yes I do go and watch my teams play live, but not as regularly as I used to, so make do with watching a lot of recordings on TV.

That's where you're wrong but ah well - repeating myself is boring now.

mikey_dragon wrote:You lost all credibility by not only posting irrelevant info, but by also admitting you hadn't watched much Welsh rugby whilst trying to rubbish the opinions of those that have been watching Welsh rugby

.

What irrelevant infor?.... All the information concerns "qualified" rugby people who have witnessed or played with RP during the times you rubbished him so how more relevant can it be    

I said I haven't watched many 2014/15regional matches with RP involved but saying that I probably have watched more than you have last season or by the sounds of it any season previously. I will ask you again "do you go to watch live matches now?" I mean I saw Dan Biggar at regional level for the first three seasons when he ousted Hooky from the 10 slot, and I also have seen RP quite a few times at regional level and I also have seen them both at international level.

I attached sites which had the articles that had said Wasps, Northants, CA, and Bath all had serious bids for him.

You my son don't like RP and doesn't matter how well he does in any match you will always be looking for, cherry picking and majoring on the mistakes he makes and ignoring any players, commentators, or coaches who says otherwise (in your mind that's not relevant), personally I think its a regional tribal thing with you. I think you should back your team 100%, all 31 of them not systematically attempt to ruin a player before he has even put his national shirt on especially when he has given your country 100%.

Just my opinion of course compardre

I had a feeling your reply would be something along the lines of repeating yourself. I've answered all your posts yet you keep asking the same questions. You're boring, and the regional tribal thing is absolute cobblers. I'm just going to ignore you from now on.