Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

Think the point was proven beyond doubt that we need AWJ and Long dog in the 2nd row.

Welsh depth about to be tested. I'm not sure Wales have got what it takes in their b team. It must be a worry for them.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Think the point was proven beyond doubt that we need AWJ and Long dog in the 2nd row.  

I don't think you can take anything from yesterday. I thought ball played well despite the circumstances, Davies played really well in Dublin last week.

To be honest I think that I have been nicely surprised at how strong we are in the second row. I agree that AWJ and Charteris are my favourites, after the six nations I thought they were leaps ahead. But Davies and Ball have proved me wrong.

Still undecided on Dom Day... Good at times silly at others.

Maes,

I have been dis appointed with Ball if honest and Davies has passed him in the pecking order IMO. Day meh not really know what to think about him really, seems a very industrious type of player but nothing more.

englandglory4ever wrote:Welsh depth about to be tested. I'm not sure Wales have got what it takes in their b team. It must be a worry for them.

Not overly no, Scott Williams has stepped in for JD

Davies doesn't worry me at No9 and then Phillips as back up

Liam Williams at XV is a better attacking option anyway and Amos onto the wing.

I thought ball did well yesterday. He worked hard, some nice tackles and good drives. He is dependable if un-flashy.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Not overly no, Scott Williams has stepped in for JD

Davies doesn't worry me at No9 and then Phillips as back up

Liam Williams at XV is a better attacking option anyway and Amos onto the wing.

I am keen to se if maybe they bring in a winger instead of a fullback???

If they have to bring someone in I think it will be a utility player as opposed to an out an out winger.

Possibly.

Depends on how confident they are in Cuthbert finding form. He really looks off his game at the moment.

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly.

Depends on how confident they are in Cuthbert finding form. He really looks off his game at the moment.

Use Amos instead.

maestegmafia wrote:Possibly.

Depends on how confident they are in Cuthbert finding form. He really looks off his game at the moment.

When did Cuthbert last look on his game? He looked clueless again yesterday.

Bet he has "looked good in training" though.

Risca Rev wrote:Bet he has "looked good in training" though.

Yep - struts around like a peacock.

maestegmafia wrote:I thought ball did well yesterday. He worked hard, some nice tackles and good drives. He is dependable if un-flashy.

I agree I though Ball was one of the better Welsh forwards. The front row, Gethin in particular got stuffed though, Castro again up to his usual trick of slipping his binding into the arm and then twisting! The biggest problems Wales had was bombing three gilt edged try scoring opportunities and gifting one to Italy in the first half alone. Also as the game went on Wales started loosing the contact zone battle, Tipuric excelled against Ireland because Lydiate did the hard graft, yesterday this was missed. Cuthbert was poor again, Cory looked way off the pace, but difficult to blame the backs behind a beaten pack.
Tragic for Webb and Halfpenny, I suspect Phillips will come in for Webb. if there is any chance of Halfpenny being fit, then it's worth waiting to see how Anscombe recovers, as Morgan proved again he is not up to the challenge of rugby at this level.

In fairness, Cuthbert played a big part in the opening try yesterday. Problem is, Italy scored it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:In fairness, Cuthbert played a big part in the opening try yesterday. Problem is, Italy scored it.

So lets say as we expect Webb and Halfpenny are out even if in best circumstances for the Uruguay game I would go for:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Lee (needs game time)
B Davies
Charteris
Lydiate
Faletau
Tipuric

G Davies
Priestland

Amos
Allen
Sc Williams
Cuthbert (might as well use him)
Li Williams (needs game time)

With utmost respect to Uruguay that side should still be able to get the job done and bag much needed bonus point

I ,know it was tragic for Webby and Leigh yesterday, but we are lucky it has happened in 2 positions where we have excellent cover, the Scarlet boys wont let us down at all, it was very fortunate it didn't happen in a position where the cover is nowhere as good as the incumbent.
The difference yesterday to me was the performance of 3 changes, AWJ and Davies, Lydiate and this wont go down very well Tipuric, compared to Ball and Day, King and WRUburton, the first 3 absolutely bullied the tackle and carrying area compared to yesterday, the captain absolutely butchered a try scoring opportunity with a 4-2 overlap outside him, look I know I'm biased, but until this series of games I would have had WRUburton in before Tipuric for Gatlandball, not now, for the type of game we (Ospreys) play, I wouldn't have had him in the team.
Finally before the 31 were named I had said I wouldn't have Cuthbert in that number, this was reinforced again yesterday, he not only gave the ball to Parisse he then missed a tackle on the try scorer at the other end of the field, he then again butchered a try scoring opportunity by trying to dive over the top of a maul, he is a liability IMO.

bedfordwelsh wrote:So lets say as we expect Webb and Halfpenny are out even if in best circumstances for the Uruguay game I would go for:

Jenkins
Baldwin
Lee (needs game time)
B Davies
Charteris
Lydiate
Faletau
Tipuric

G Davies
Priestland

Amos
Allen
Sc Williams
Cuthbert (might as well use him)
Li Williams (needs game time)

With utmost respect to Uruguay that side should still be able to get the job done and bag much needed bonus point

I would probably go with

1. James (Gethin has played 2 and no need to risk him)
2. Baldwin (give him a shot to win the shirt off owens)
3. Lee (needs gamtime, take him off at 50mins)
4. Davies
5. Ball
6. King
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau (needs a chance to forget about yesterday)
9. Gareth Davies (needs a start under his belt, sub at 50)
10. Preistland (Biggar has played twice and Preistland will need the practise)
11. Liam Williams (will need practise)
12. Roberts (take off at 50)
13. Allen (Williams has played 3 already)
14. Amos (see if he is ready to start against England)
15. Morgan (there to score as much as possible)

16. Owen (who else)
17. Gethin (who else)
18. Francis
19. Charteris
20. Warburton (to come on for Faletau to speed things up at 60)
21. Lloyd Williams
22. ? Maybe North (morgan covers 10 if necessary, North to come on for Roberts in the centres)
23. Cuthbert

Wayne,

The Warburton/Tipuric debate will always split people and its one that has been poured over countless times before, me I am still on the Warburton side of the debate but the one thing we can agree on and maybe it has put he Warburton at 6 debate to bed is the fact that we need Lydiate in there.

I think the reason that Tipuric done so well last week was because of Lydiates defences effort first off and that was clearly missed yesterday.

wayne wrote:I ,know it was tragic for Webby and Leigh yesterday, but we are lucky it has happened in 2 positions where we have excellent cover, the Scarlet boys wont let us down at all, it was very fortunate it didn't happen in a position where the cover is nowhere as good as the incumbent.
The difference yesterday to me was the performance of 3 changes, AWJ and Davies, Lydiate and this wont go down very well Tipuric, compared to Ball and Day, King and WRUburton, the first 3 absolutely bullied the tackle and carrying area compared to yesterday, the captain absolutely butchered a try scoring opportunity with a 4-2 overlap outside him, look I know I'm biased, but until this series of games I would have had WRUburton in before Tipuric for Gatlandball, not now, for the type of game we (Ospreys) play, I wouldn't have had him in the team.
Finally before the 31 were named I had said I wouldn't have Cuthbert in that number, this was reinforced again yesterday, he not only gave the ball to Parisse he then missed a tackle on the try scorer at the other end of the field, he then again butchered a try scoring opportunity by trying to dive over the top of a maul, he is a liability IMO.    

I think you're wrong with Warburton. He can't carry a pack where the front 5 go AWOL and the number 8 has his worst ever international game. He was the one forward who played well.
You are bang on with Cuthbert though - he looked like he'd won the shirt in a raffle and sneaked onto the pitch.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne,

The Warburton/Tipuric debate will always split people and its one that has been poured over countless times before, me I am still on the Warburton side of the debate but the one thing we can agree on and maybe it has put he Warburton at 6 debate to bed is the fact that we need Lydiate in there.

I think the reason that Tipuric done so well last week was because of Lydiates defences effort first off and that was clearly missed yesterday.

BW, I admitted to my bias, but to me Tips in that try missing episode he would have either taken the ball up and then passed or made the break as he is much faster than the captain, his football know how is so much better than him as well, I agree about the Lydiate influence and it was not only him AWJ and Davies helped enormously in that department as well.

Wayne,

No probs with bias at all and I admit in that area Tipuric is outstanding but they both have different strengths and are different types of player which is great to have.

For me Lydiate starts every time as most of our attacks actually start with his defence, like said it will always split the audience as such but great position to be.

I actually thought Warburton had a good game overall, given Lydiate wasn't there and Faletau most probably made more errors in one game than he has done in his previous 48 caps.

Agree about AWJ, him and Charteris and way out in front of the rest, I have always like Ball but do think Davies has over taken him in pecking order.

It's quite delusional to believe that the introduction of Lydiate would have made a big difference yesterday. Our scrums got mashed (it was pretty poor against Ireland as well) and that is surely a big concern going up against England and Australia - I think Rob Evans is a player who could have made a difference there and should be in ahead of Paul James (who can't scrum either). Italy did well though and even brought off Castro at the right time so they could maintain the upper hand in that area; in the 6 Nations we made the changes sooner and exposed the Italian scrum. I also think Tipuric is a fine player, but an extra backline player is not what we need (though I wouldn't object to him being on the wing ahead of Cuthbert); we need a 7 that gets lots of turnovers which is our captain, Sam Warburton.

I'm not sure who I would choose for the Uruguay game. Not only is it a fixture from which we need to take maximum points, but we also need it to get a few vital players back up to speed.

You want to play a flanker on the wing as first choice?

donglewood wrote:You want to play a flanker on the wing as first choice?

No.

mikey_dragon wrote:It's quite delusional to believe that the introduction of Lydiate would have made a big difference yesterday. Our scrums got mashed (it was pretty poor against Ireland as well) and that is surely a big concern going up against England and Australia - I think Rob Evans is a player who could have made a difference there and should be in ahead of Paul James (who can't scrum either). Italy did well though and even brought off Castro at the right time so they could maintain the upper hand in that area; in the 6 Nations we made the changes sooner and exposed the Italian scrum. I also think Tipuric is a fine player, but an extra backline player is not what we need (though I wouldn't object to him being on the wing ahead of Cuthbert); we need a 7 that gets lots of turnovers which is our captain, Sam Warburton.

I'm not sure who I would choose for the Uruguay game. Not only is it a fixture from which we need to take maximum points, but we also need it to get a few vital players back up to speed.

In usual Clancy form the scrum and breakdown were a mess yesterday. We won't have Clancy in the RWC thankfully.

It was a mess but other referees would have sorted out both situations in conversation with the teams rather than Clancy's manner of explaining nothing of his interpretation and only blowing a penalising whistle.

I agree with you that I was unimpressed by our scrum, but due to mitigating circumstances I won't read as much into it as you are

I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

mikey_dragon wrote:It's quite delusional to believe that the introduction of Lydiate would have made a big difference yesterday. Our scrums got mashed (it was pretty poor against Ireland as well) and that is surely a big concern going up against England and Australia - I think Rob Evans is a player who could have made a difference there and should be in ahead of Paul James (who can't scrum either). Italy did well though and even brought off Castro at the right time so they could maintain the upper hand in that area; in the 6 Nations we made the changes sooner and exposed the Italian scrum. I also think Tipuric is a fine player, but an extra backline player is not what we need (though I wouldn't object to him being on the wing ahead of Cuthbert); we need a 7 that gets lots of turnovers which is our captain, Sam Warburton.

I'm not sure who I would choose for the Uruguay game. Not only is it a fixture from which we need to take maximum points, but we also need it to get a few vital players back up to speed.

Rob Evans got smashed against Italy in the 6 nations and was replaced by Rhys Gill.

Rob Jones says maybe bring in Ross Moriarty...

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10 as Anscombe is out for 3 weeks. He had a good game today, but his goal-kicking is some level below the minimum standard - again that's if today is anything to go by. I just heard who Colin Charvis said he would bring in. I hope Gatland doesn't listen to him .

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It's quite delusional to believe that the introduction of Lydiate would have made a big difference yesterday. Our scrums got mashed (it was pretty poor against Ireland as well) and that is surely a big concern going up against England and Australia - I think Rob Evans is a player who could have made a difference there and should be in ahead of Paul James (who can't scrum either). Italy did well though and even brought off Castro at the right time so they could maintain the upper hand in that area; in the 6 Nations we made the changes sooner and exposed the Italian scrum. I also think Tipuric is a fine player, but an extra backline player is not what we need (though I wouldn't object to him being on the wing ahead of Cuthbert); we need a 7 that gets lots of turnovers which is our captain, Sam Warburton.

I'm not sure who I would choose for the Uruguay game. Not only is it a fixture from which we need to take maximum points, but we also need it to get a few vital players back up to speed.

Rob Evans got smashed against Italy in the 6 nations and was replaced by Rhys Gill.

He didn't get smashed; Castro was 'cheating' so Wales made a tactical replacement. Then who ends up in the sin-bin during the second half? James won't make a difference due to the fact he cannot offer anything in a match apart from offences at the scrum. Evans has more to offer in the scrums and around the field, and that is why he would have been my choice.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10 as Anscombe is out for 3 weeks. He had a good game today, but his goal-kicking is some level below the minimum standard - again that's if today is anything to go by. I just heard who Colin Charvis said he would bring in. I hope Gatland doesn't listen to him .

Re the goal kicking I'm sure Jenks would sort him out, he is usually very good.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10

Why do we need someone who can cover 10?

We've (probably) lost a back-three player. We need someone to cover the back three.

mikey_dragon wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:It's quite delusional to believe that the introduction of Lydiate would have made a big difference yesterday. Our scrums got mashed (it was pretty poor against Ireland as well) and that is surely a big concern going up against England and Australia - I think Rob Evans is a player who could have made a difference there and should be in ahead of Paul James (who can't scrum either). Italy did well though and even brought off Castro at the right time so they could maintain the upper hand in that area; in the 6 Nations we made the changes sooner and exposed the Italian scrum. I also think Tipuric is a fine player, but an extra backline player is not what we need (though I wouldn't object to him being on the wing ahead of Cuthbert); we need a 7 that gets lots of turnovers which is our captain, Sam Warburton.

I'm not sure who I would choose for the Uruguay game. Not only is it a fixture from which we need to take maximum points, but we also need it to get a few vital players back up to speed.

Rob Evans got smashed against Italy in the 6 nations and was replaced by Rhys Gill.

He didn't get smashed; Castro was 'cheating' so Wales made a tactical replacement. Then who ends up in the sin-bin during the second half? James won't make a difference due to the fact he cannot offer anything in a match apart from offences at the scrum. Evans has more to offer in the scrums and around the field, and that is why he would have been my choice.

Castro was binding on the arm and twisting Evans in the first half, which the Ref allowed despite Wales protests. Somebody must have reminded the Ref about the Laws at half time, and guess what, no longer a problem in the scrum. Castro was then taken off before Evans was replaced by Gill

Castro was doing the same on Jenkins yesterday.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10

Why do we need someone who can cover 10?

We've (probably) lost a back-three player. We need someone to cover the back three.

I'm like, following on from the Scrum V chat.

Patchell can cover back three...well, he can cover full-back as far as I know.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Fact is i think the best thing he can do is call MP and Hook back in. Hook can cover centre and 15 and Philipps is the perfect bench option.

Phillips seems to be the obvious choice and I wouldn't have a problem with that, would have taken him anyway.  As for Hook then I still wouldn't pick him but that's my personal opinion, I think he will see how long Halfpenny could be out for and if he's likely to be fit even foir Australia game then he will be kept in squad.  If not I think Anscombe might get the nod as he wasn't that far away from being fully fit anyway.

fair point beds but i think now that we are in a deep crisis i want experience. MP is a must. I rate Anscombe i really do and i hope he is fit and can offer that support at 15.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10

Why do we need someone who can cover 10?

We've (probably) lost a back-three player. We need someone to cover the back three.

I'm like, following on from the Scrum V chat.

Patchell can cover back three...well, he can cover full-back as far as I know.

He's pretty quick mate, I don't think he would struggle with wing.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10

Why do we need someone who can cover 10?

We've (probably) lost a back-three player. We need someone to cover the back three.

I'm like, following on from the Scrum V chat.

Patchell can cover back three...well, he can cover full-back as far as I know.

He's pretty quick mate, I don't think he would struggle with wing.

Wow.

maestegmafia wrote:Rob Jones says maybe bring in Ross Moriarty...

Charvis said James done better at scrum so what do we know etc

maestegmafia wrote:Castro was doing the same on Jenkins yesterday.

Shouldn't a prop of Jenkins' experience be able to deal with it or have learnt to deal with it but now?

Risca Rev wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I would be tempted to take Patchell if I was Gatland.

Danny Wilson said that Anscombe is looking like being out for three weeks.

Patchell had a good game today. Awful with the boot but that was unusual for him as he is generally a very good kicker.

He is fast, smart and can cover ten, fifteen and centre

Patchell might be in pole position if Gatland wants to bring in another 10

Why do we need someone who can cover 10?

We've (probably) lost a back-three player. We need someone to cover the back three.

I'm like, following on from the Scrum V chat.

Patchell can cover back three...well, he can cover full-back as far as I know.

He's pretty quick mate, I don't think he would struggle with wing.

Wow.

Al I stated was he is quick, a perquisite of playing out on the wing. Should he need to cover.

No need to be impertinent Rev

Just as well check has Usain Bolt got a Welsh passport then. That's impertinent.

Usain is a pretty good footballer, and a big lad..

Give him a go

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Castro was doing the same on Jenkins yesterday.

Shouldn't a prop of Jenkins' experience be able to deal with it or have learnt to deal with it but now?

Yep. This is why I'm concerned about the scrums going into the world cup. I don't think Francis has looked that great either but that's down to experience I think, IE he sometimes drives at a bad angle.

Rob Jones said bring in Moriarty Why can he play full back If Gats is going to replace a back with a forward it should be a hooker .

Apparently Webb is definitely out but they are keeping a hope that Halfpenny is only two to three weeks.

maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Webb is definitely out but they are keeping a hope that Halfpenny is only two to three weeks.

I posted over the weekend that if either of them had a chance of being fit even if it wasn't until the Aussie game then they would be kept in the squad and given as much time as possible.

maestegmafia wrote:Apparently Webb is definitely out but they are keeping a hope that Halfpenny is only two to three weeks.

Wonder how realistic that hope is.