Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland Do you actually watch any rugby Munkian

Wow, you sure showed me...

Priestlands exit strategy was spot on, make sure you make touch, win the line out and then go for distance from a more advantageous position. The only thing that went wrong was Wales messing up the line out.

What's the general feeling on Francis?

I'm a big fan and disappointed we didn't cap him. He can be a truly destructive scrummager which is rare these days.

Seagultaf wrote:Priestlands exit strategy was spot on, make sure you make touch, win the line out and then go for distance from a more advantageous position. The only thing that went wrong was Wales messing up the line out.

And to be fair our line out had been good all game, so you can see why he would rely on it...

Well done Priestland. You managed a kick to touch. You made a pass. You didn't drop the ball. Well done for doing the minimal requirements for a fly-half. If only the BBC had the rights to this game, Jiffy would be giving you MOTM for your 'successful cameo' .

Got to start somewhere MD.

maestegmafia wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Priestlands exit strategy was spot on, make sure you make touch, win the line out and then go for distance from a more advantageous position. The only thing that went wrong was Wales messing up the line out.

And to be fair our line out had been good all game, so you can see why he would rely on it...

That's not enough for some. They dislike Priestland so much, they'll blame him for a malfunctioning lineout.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Priestlands exit strategy was spot on, make sure you make touch, win the line out and then go for distance from a more advantageous position. The only thing that went wrong was Wales messing up the line out.

And to be fair our line out had been good all game, so you can see why he would rely on it...

That's not enough for some. They dislike Priestland so much, they'll blame him for a malfunctioning lineout.

There always has to be a scape goat, for the media and the fans...

No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

Do you know why there is a difference between Faletau and Priestland with regards to selection if not playing in Wales?

Because Gats says there is?

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

Priestland has actually been playing very well over the last season for a pretty weak Scarlets side, including the big European Games. He had a poor run for Wales but during that time he was carrying injuries and looked as though he was being held together by bandages and plaster. Despite this he continued to be Gats first choice until Biggar picked up his game and attitude over the last 12 months. It is par for the course on this site for Priestland to be trolled, despite the fact that Ireland were only in the game on Saturday because the (other) 10 has missed a tackle to allow Ireland to score under the posts at the end of the 1st half. Imagine the vitriol if that had been Priestland?

As to the difference between Priestland and Faletau? Priestland was not offered a central contract and went to Bath with Gatlands blessing. Falatau however turned his nose up to the central contract offered, so not surprisingly has not got Gatlands blessing.

On another point, anyone else surprised that Tom Francis has extended his contract at Exeter? This will mean his chances for playing for Wales after the World cup will be restricted by the non regional player agreement (as I recall limited to 2 picks unless under special circumstances, such as injuries). I suspect that both Tom and Talupe are getting some very poor career advice from their agents!

Seagultaf wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

On another point, anyone else surprised that Tom Francis has extended his contract at Exeter? This will mean his chances for playing for Wales after the World cup will be restricted by the non regional player agreement (as I recall limited to 2 picks unless under special circumstances, such as injuries). I suspect that both Tom and Talupe are getting some very poor career advice from their agents!

Think it depends on if he was offered a contract by a regions. I think at one point there was also some dispensation for players abroad who went before the RSA came into effect and renew their contract to stay with the team they are settled with (which applies to people like Halfpenny, Roberts, Davies)

I was a bit surprised when I read about Francis but then as 606 pointed out I am sure there is also a clause of sorts whereby if a player wasn't offered a DC or non of the Regions wanted them then they still have a living to make etc.

I am still of the belief player agreement or not that Gatland will pick who he wants no mater where they are playing and still say we are too small a Nation as to be blinkered by not picking players outside Wales.

Aren't people allowed to have an opinion on a player based on years of watching him? I find these excuses that are constantly rolled out for Priestland hilarious; no other player gets such sentimental treatment. These people will no doubt be here Saturday night telling us how his inclusion is justified after a 5 minute cameo against a beaten Italy where he passed and kicked okay... Oh well, time to get behind him and the boys.

Thank you Mikey - I respect other peoples views of Priestland that differ to mine and after all that's what debating is about. I would not have him anywhere near the squad having watched him for the past 3 years. I have no particular attachment to any welsh player or Region and therefore consider myself objective as far as I'm not pro one Region or the other. He's a fragile player who when on form is a great distributor. I just haven't seen that for a long time consistently against quality opposition.

Because I am a Scarlets fan whatever I say with regards Priest will be deemed as being one-eyed. If I say I like him its because I'm a one-eyed terk, if a slate him it is sour grapes because he has left.

However, I do think that looking at the fly halves who are starting at the regions last season (leading into the RWC squad selection) he is the second best option we had. Gareth Annscombe may well come good, but if he is injured he is no option for the RWC. Hook is a sevens player who we seem to want to shoe horn into the side, he can play some stunning individual stuff, but he is not so good at laying within a team. Rhys Patchell is very similar to Priestland IMO, he can be hit and miss, and seems prone to make compound errors (that said I do home the Scarlets sign him end of this season). And then we are starting to look at the likes of Tovey, Sam Davies etc.

I respect that SS and its one eyed Turk not Terk - It may be a gamble but I would have taken Patchell who form me is a physically and mentally stronger player who has yet to be part of a team on the front foot.

RubyGuby wrote:I respect that SS and its one eyed Turk not Terk - It may be a gamble but I would have taken Patchell who form me is a physically and mentally stronger player who has yet to be part of a team on the front foot.

They gave parchell a long stint in the training camps, obviously thought he wasn't ready yet.

Based on performances last season Biggar is out in front, followed by Priestland. But then there is a big gap in performance with Anscombe, Patchell, Sam Davies, Morgan and Shingler a long way back. If he was fit, maybe Owen Williams would have been in with a shout.

Quite who the people who are saying Priestland should not be in the squad would pick in his place I don't know?

Sam Davies???
Patchell whose confidence and form is shot following Anscombe being given the 10 shirt at CAP?
Anscombe who is injured and struggling to develop his game at 10?
Tovey, who seems to play 15 more than 10?
Hook, His performances for Wales makes Priestland look like a world beater?

wales606 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

On another point, anyone else surprised that Tom Francis has extended his contract at Exeter? This will mean his chances for playing for Wales after the World cup will be restricted by the non regional player agreement (as I recall limited to 2 picks unless under special circumstances, such as injuries). I suspect that both Tom and Talupe are getting some very poor career advice from their agents!

Think it depends on if he was offered a contract by a regions. I think at one point there was also some dispensation for players abroad who went before the RSA came into effect and renew their contract to stay with the team they are settled with (which applies to people like Halfpenny, Roberts, Davies)

My understanding is that this only applies to players entering into contract after the RSA, I do not recall reading anything about whether or not they were offered a dual contract. So both Roberts and Priesland will be included in the 2 picks, but at present JD2, Halfpenny, North, etc are not affected until their contract comes up for renewal. There is something about special circumstances where Gats will be allowed to pick additional non Welsh based players, but I suspect that this will be limited to cover for injuries. So not a problem at present.

Seagultaf wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

On another point, anyone else surprised that Tom Francis has extended his contract at Exeter? This will mean his chances for playing for Wales after the World cup will be restricted by the non regional player agreement (as I recall limited to 2 picks unless under special circumstances, such as injuries). I suspect that both Tom and Talupe are getting some very poor career advice from their agents!

Think it depends on if he was offered a contract by a regions. I think at one point there was also some dispensation for players abroad who went before the RSA came into effect and renew their contract to stay with the team they are settled with (which applies to people like Halfpenny, Roberts, Davies)

My understanding is that this only applies to players entering into contract after the RSA, I do not recall reading anything about whether or not they were offered a dual contract. So both Roberts and Priesland will be included in the 2 picks, but at present JD2, Halfpenny, North, etc are not affected until their contract comes up for renewal.  There is something about special circumstances where Gats will be allowed to pick additional non Welsh based players, but I suspect that this will be limited to cover for injuries. So not a problem at present.

Pretty sure Halfpenny, JD2 and North are okay as long as they re-sign with their current clubs (not move to a different non-welsh club). I think that exception was put in to allow those players to have some continuity and not be forced to move back to Wales when they/there families are settled elsewhere.

wales606 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

wales606 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:No one is disliking Priestland, he's one of the nicest players anyone could meet or know; its just that many of us have seen his weaknesses and his dire lack of confidence and he has not played consistently well for 3 years. That's nothing to do with disliking. He's also chosen to leave Wales for England yet Gatland seems to ignore this whilst threatening Talupe with international blackmail if he leaves the Dragons.

On another point, anyone else surprised that Tom Francis has extended his contract at Exeter? This will mean his chances for playing for Wales after the World cup will be restricted by the non regional player agreement (as I recall limited to 2 picks unless under special circumstances, such as injuries). I suspect that both Tom and Talupe are getting some very poor career advice from their agents!

Think it depends on if he was offered a contract by a regions. I think at one point there was also some dispensation for players abroad who went before the RSA came into effect and renew their contract to stay with the team they are settled with (which applies to people like Halfpenny, Roberts, Davies)

My understanding is that this only applies to players entering into contract after the RSA, I do not recall reading anything about whether or not they were offered a dual contract. So both Roberts and Priesland will be included in the 2 picks, but at present JD2, Halfpenny, North, etc are not affected until their contract comes up for renewal.  There is something about special circumstances where Gats will be allowed to pick additional non Welsh based players, but I suspect that this will be limited to cover for injuries. So not a problem at present.

Pretty sure Halfpenny, JD2 and North are okay as long as they re-sign with their current clubs (not move to a different non-welsh club). I think that exception was put in to allow those players to have some continuity and not be forced to move back to Wales when they/there families are settled elsewhere.

I have not read anything about that dispensation. There has been talk in the press of JD2 ans Halfpenny coming back tonWales next season to avoid being frozen out of the national team. In guess we will find out in due course.

Let's just think about the RWC first

Interesting article in The Guardian.

"Wales believe if they can keep their penalty count below 10 and so minimise the number of lineouts they have to defend as well as not conceding territory cheaply, they will give themselves every opportunity of progressing from the group having failed three times before to make it through to the quarter-finals.

“England are awarded an average of 15 penalties at home and we have to limit our count to single figures,” Gatland said. “We have been working on stuff this summer that will allow me to go to a meeting with Joël Jutge [World Rugby’s director of referees] and deliver a message.

“We have been criticised in the past for our scrummaging tactics but my message to Joel is that with our firepower behind, the last thing we want is a messy scrum. It is about ensuring referees do not go into matches with pre-conceived ideas about us.”"

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/sep/04/warren-gatland-wales-referees-world-cup-italy

Jenkins just needs to heed the refs warnings about scrummaging straight.
That would reduce the number of penalties.
Instead of seeking to gain an edge from the officials by speaking to the authorities beforehand.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Jenkins just needs to heed the refs warnings about scrummaging straight.
That would reduce the number of penalties.
Instead of  seeking to gain an edge from the officials by speaking to the authorities beforehand.

All coaches speak to the officials beforehand

I thought that they all have a meeting with officials anyway.

wales606 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Jenkins just needs to heed the refs warnings about scrummaging straight.
That would reduce the number of penalties.
Instead of  seeking to gain an edge from the officials by speaking to the authorities beforehand.

All coaches speak to the officials beforehand

Do all coaches (WHINGE)to the officials beforehand? is that what you meant?

majesticimperialman wrote:

wales606 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Jenkins just needs to heed the refs warnings about scrummaging straight.
That would reduce the number of penalties.
Instead of  seeking to gain an edge from the officials by speaking to the authorities beforehand.

All coaches speak to the officials beforehand

Do all coaches (WHINGE)to the officials beforehand? is that what you meant?

No report of anyone whinging to anyone in the article above. Just asking for clarification. It is what all coaches do.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

wales606 wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Jenkins just needs to heed the refs warnings about scrummaging straight.
That would reduce the number of penalties.
Instead of  seeking to gain an edge from the officials by speaking to the authorities beforehand.

All coaches speak to the officials beforehand

Do all coaches (WHINGE)to the officials beforehand? is that what you meant?

No report of anyone whinging to anyone in the article above. Just asking for clarification. It is what all coaches do.

Exactly, grow up maj

So who do they bring in for Halfpenny and Webb?

Big losses to the squad

maestegmafia wrote:So who do they bring in for Halfpenny and Webb?

Big losses to the squad

I guess Phillips comes back in.

For Halfpenny probably Anscombe, Patchell or Walker (depending on how fit L.Williams is really)

If either have a chance of recovering before Wales v Aus then I expect they will be kept in the squad, though it would be a horrible decision for the coaches to make.

Rhodri Williams just limped off for the Scarlets, so there goes another SH option.

Just can't imagine the feeling for the poor lads. So close to the RWC...

Really feel for the injured players and the Welsh fans on here. Its fans of every teams worst nightmare one match out from the competition.

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So who do they bring in for Halfpenny and Webb?

Big losses to the squad

I guess Phillips comes back in.

For Halfpenny probably Anscombe, Patchell or Walker (depending on how fit L.Williams is really)

If either have a chance of recovering before Wales v Aus then I expect they will be kept in the squad, though it would be a horrible decision for the coaches to make.

I would say Phillips is the obvious choice for Halfpenny and if Anscombe wasn't to far away from being fit anyway then I guess he's obvious choice for Halfpenny.

Amos, Morgan and Williams will be relied upon for the get go now rather than bring in other guys and expect them to perform. I can't see him calling anyone other than Anscombe in and having him take part at a later stage. I also think Phillips is most certainly back in the squad.

Also this might be strange to some (but not all), Priestland didn't get on the pitch today. Again.

Morgan can't be relied upon defensively. I wouldn't be overly bothered seeing a back 3 of North Williams and Amos

Shocking stuff for Halfpenny and Webb, really hope that is not both their World Cup's over before it starts. Two players who utterly deserve to be on the biggest stage

Fact is i think the best thing he can do is call MP and Hook back in. Hook can cover centre and 15 and Philipps is the perfect bench option.

Marshes wrote:Shocking stuff for Halfpenny and Webb, really hope that is not both their World Cup's over before it starts. Two players who utterly deserve to be on the biggest stage

Definitely - I think any neutral wants to see them there - especially Webb, who deserves the sort of exposure that Halfpenny got during the last Lions tour.

Gwlad wrote:Fact is i think the best thing he can do is call MP and Hook back in. Hook can cover centre and 15 and Philipps is the perfect bench option.

Phillips seems to be the obvious choice and I wouldn't have a problem with that, would have taken him anyway. As for Hook then I still wouldn't pick him but that's my personal opinion, I think he will see how long Halfpenny could be out for and if he's likely to be fit even foir Australia game then he will be kept in squad. If not I think Anscombe might get the nod as he wasn't that far away from being fully fit anyway.

Agreed, Bedford. Phillips is probably a given, but I really hope it's not Hook. Yes. he's played full back before, but only because we had no one else who could play there. And we don't need him to cover centre as they'll probably move North there if anything happens.

I'd be tempted to bring in someone who can also cover wing, because Cuthbert clearly isn't at the races. I wouldn't want to play him against England or Australia. Cuthbert marking Jonny May doesn't bear thinking about.

I wonder if we need more immediate cover at fullback?

We have Liam Williams, Hallam Amos and Rhys Priestland are all experienced full backs.

I think they can now risk Anscombe, I don't think hook will get the call.

Phillips is an obvious man to replace Rhys Webb. He will have to buck his ideas up though. Experience is great but we need him at his best form. Not the wayward ponderous game we saw in Cardiff vs Ireland.

Positively though I thought Moriarty tried to prove his omission was a bad decision when he came on. He looked very industrious.

Again though whilst we worry over the injuries they are detracting from what was a shocking performance up front. Jenkins and James struggled and Owens' lineout was poor.

Bedford, I thought before the game that they probably scheduled a game against Italy because they're good scrummagers and Gatland wanted to see how we fared against them.

Without wanting to jinx it, England aren't looking that strong in the scrum at the moment themselves, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bedford, I thought before the game that they probably scheduled a game against Italy because they're good scrummagers and Gatland wanted to see how we fared against them.

Without wanting to jinx it, England aren't looking that strong in the scrum at the moment themselves, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Good points.

England lost two against the head and couldn't budge the Irish pack, Australia are no great shakes either.

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bedford, I thought before the game that they probably scheduled a game against Italy because they're good scrummagers and Gatland wanted to see how we fared against them.

Without wanting to jinx it, England aren't looking that strong in the scrum at the moment themselves, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Good points.

England lost two against the head and couldn't budge the Irish pack, Australia are no great shakes either.

I wouldn't be so sure about Aus to be honest, they absolutely destroyed the NZ scrum in their last game.

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bedford, I thought before the game that they probably scheduled a game against Italy because they're good scrummagers and Gatland wanted to see how we fared against them.

Without wanting to jinx it, England aren't looking that strong in the scrum at the moment themselves, so it's not all doom and gloom.

Good points.

England lost two against the head and couldn't budge the Irish pack, Australia are no great shakes either.

I wouldn't be so sure about Aus to be honest, they absolutely destroyed the NZ scrum in their last game.

Can't have been that great the Aussies lost 41- 13.