Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[Welly]

We are losing in the back 3
Goneva
Morris
Benjamin
Loamanu
Camacho
Bell

Signed
JPP
Brady

Rumours
Agulla

IMO we need a experianced club name maybe a player like Andre Taylor and then a project 15 so Championship or Worth and then bring up Odogwu.

I can't see Tait staying after this contract either.

[formerly known as Sam]

Andre Taylor would be a spectacular signing in my book. Unlucky not to get an AB cap and would offer quite a lot to our back three. If we can sign someone like that who can be a benefit over several years I'd be happy. What I don't want is a steady 30 something keeping out talented youngsters who then look to move on. That's how we lost Lewington and I think we'd regret it if Odwugu ended up in the same situation.

[Welly]

Grant has scored 20 tries this season in the championship from 19 games.

Whilst lower standard it's not like Notts are a dominate team in it like say Bristol.

[LondonTiger]

Is Grant the guy we had on loan briefly at the start o flast season?

[Welly]

Yeh scored v barbarians.

[Gooseberry]

Rumours
Agulla

Jesus really?

[Welly]

Rumours
Agulla

Jesus really?

Yeh why?

[formerly known as Sam]

Is Grant the guy we had on loan briefly at the start o flast season?

I've not seen much of Grant but what I have seen I liked. Think if he comes he'll be a good squad option.

Apparently we are nicking a LH from Falcons as a project?

Can't say I'm massively keen on Agulla returning unless it's only for one more season.

[Welly]

Is that actual true about Harris?

As i wasn't being serious on the Falcons board.

[Geordie]

If you total up his minutes hes probably played 1 game this season.

Where has this rumour come from Sam?

[LondonTiger]

If you total up his minutes hes probably played 1 game this season.

Where has this rumour come from Sam?

From Welly

[formerly known as Sam]

Is that actual true about Harris?

As i wasn't being serious on the Falcons board.

Ah Welly, thought it was another or your accurate rumours.

Thought it might be true as no one knows whether Sio will stick around and whether the coaches has significant confidence in Brugnara.

[Geordie]

I would be very surprised if that was true mind.

[formerly known as Sam]

I can see us looking at front row options for next season though. Mulipola, Ayerza and Cole could all be reasonably expected to play for their nations and Cilliers could be recalled in an injury crisis. Genge and Balmain we seem to have some faith in but after that we're struggling, particularly at loosehead.

Notts fans seem resigned to losing Grant on their offy. Him a wing/fullback and a prop would pretty much finish off our recruitment. As long as VV is retained at hooker.

[Geordie]

You can have Eric Fry. He's apparently on his way out of Newcastle in the summer

[Welly]

If Grant and Agulla come

would like to see us add:
A Centre (IF JDV goes)
A FB
Maybe another prop.

IF Van Vurren goes and Genge goes back to Bristol.
Another project LH and Hooker.

Love to try and get Walker if Bath miss out on him. (Won't happen mind).

[formerly known as Sam]

Centre we have players coming through, I'm not so concerned though keeping JDV for a season seems sensible.

Agulla would be the additional fullback for me if he signs. If he and another 15 players sign I would hope it's only a 1 year deal for Horacio.

Agree on Genge and VV. Walker to Bath, is that the under 20 hooker? If so yes I'd happily take him. An additional prop might still be necessary.

I want to see more players brought through so we can concentrate on signing top talent instead of squad filler.

[Welly]

I'm hoping this season will be the last of a lot of recruiting for me.

At midfield I just feel one more Experiance head will help us a lot esp with Manu likely away for chunks. Whilst we have Catch and Roberts I grill feel one more would be a big benefit.

Would like to see us replace end of next season:
Crane with Milne
Tait with Worth

And hopefully the spare cap from Crane, Tait and likely Fonua could go towards luring Beaumont .

[formerly known as Sam]

I feel next season is the last Catch and Roberts can afford spending as back up. If they don't make an imprint on the first team they probably should be released. Given we have Bryant and Thacker coming through we need to get these guys up to speed so they can make an impact.

If you look at the centres;

12. Toomua, Smith, Roberts, Bryant
13. Manu, Betham, Catchpole, Thacker

We're ok, as JPP can also come in to 13. JDV would be an ideal 1 season transition option. Thacker and Manu can both comfortably play 12 and we can also move Williams to 12 if needed. Smith and Roberts can switch to 13 if required.

Back three options of JPP, TV, Thompstone, Tait, Brady, Odowgu and Betham is a little light on numbers though. If Agulla came in then that would be ok though a Taylor style signing as mentioned before would have me more confident.

[Welly]

Betham whilst playin well @13 is an out and out winger first and should be viewed as a starting winger next season IMO.

[king_carlos]

Jack Roberts is viewed as a 13 by Mauger and in the new systems the club are using. I guess that they think he can better utilise his pace and power from there.

The one time he and Catchpole have been paired together in the A-league this season it was with Catchpole at 12 and Roberts at 13 in fact. Although I think Catchpole is still viewed primarily as a 13 who can cover 12 and wing.

If we can keep JDV for another season that would be perfect. If not then I tend to agree with Welly that we need another experienced head there.

If Roberts and Catchpole are going to progress then they need game time in stronger line-ups rather than just when we are down to last options due to injury or call ups. With the injuries this season that wasn't as readily possible hence Betham moving inside. With Toomua coming in and Manu hopefully fit I just hope they will be rotated into close to full strength sides to see what they can do.

[formerly known as Sam]

Betham whilst playin well @13 is an out and out winger first and should be viewed as a starting winger next season IMO.

I prefer him at centre than wing though with the options next season he will play more wing (injuries allowing). At centre he gets more hands on ball time and his footwork causes chaos and means he rarely gets hit man and ball in the midfield. He moves the ball well most of the time and can do a job defensively as well. He's played himself into the position where he can be considered either a centre or a wing.

Any news in JDV's injury and whether he'll be back in time to stake a claim for a new contract?

[formerly known as Sam]

Leicester Tigers (v Stade Francais Paris, Welford Road, Sunday 1.45pm)
15 Mathew Tait (c) 
14 Telusa Veainu 
13 Peter Betham 
12 Manu Tuilagi 
11 Vereniki Goneva 
10 Freddie Burns 
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza 
2 Harry Thacker
3 Dan Cole 
4 Dom Barrow
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Brendon O'Connor 
8 Lachlan McCaffrey

Replacements
16 Greg Bateman
17 Logovi'i Mulipola 
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Ed Slater
20 Tom Croft 
21 Sam Harrison
22 Owen Williams
23 Adam Thompstone

Burns at ten concerns me, he doesn't control field position well enough and we often end up trying to play to much rugby in our own half. Otherwise it's a good team.

[yappysnap]

Just watched the Stade game.

How good was Betham? His passing was exceptional for you boys, Cockers will have some headaches trying to fit him, Manu AND Toomua in there next season.

[nathan]

Just watched the Stade game.

How good was Betham? His passing was exceptional for you boys, Cockers will have some headaches trying to fit him, Manu AND Toomua in there next season.

Now the ground is firming up he's starting to have a great impact. Veainu was a stand out player for me, his foot work is amazing.

[formerly known as Sam]

I still prefer TV at 15 where he can cause havoc across the field. Opponents won't be keen to kick if they know he's running it back.

Betham prefers to play in the wing so he can always move back there Yappy otherwise he's a great impact off the bench and we can use him in rotation with Manu and Toomua so that the midfield stays fresh. Wonderful options in the back line for next season and steady Mr Smith can always do a tough job in bad weather.

[LondonTiger]

At the start of the season Betham was electric ball in hand but never looked for the pass to the wingers, unsurprisingly for a new player he seemed to not be on the same wavelength as his team-mates. During the winter months he was either on the wing or the bench as he settled into the team and now the hard grounds are back he looks a much better centre than he did. Of course the mere presence of Manu buys time and space for other guys. We are more likely to see Betham on the wing next season, but I expect there will be a lot of shuffling around.

As to TV - perhaps even the most diehard of Sinotti fans can start to see the merits of the new Tiger and why he was selected for RWC instead.

[yappysnap]

Sinoti is pretty good mind, doesn't get the same chances at Falcons though.

[Ozzy3213]

At the start of the season Betham was electric ball in hand but never looked for the pass to the wingers, unsurprisingly for a new player he seemed to not be on the same wavelength as his team-mates. During the winter months he was either on the wing or the bench as he settled into the team and now the hard grounds are back he looks a much better centre than he did. Of course the mere presence of Manu buys time and space for other guys. We are more likely to see Betham on the wing next season, but I expect there will be a lot of shuffling around.

As to TV - perhaps even the most diehard of Sinotti fans can start to see the merits of the new Tiger and why he was selected for RWC instead.

I'm not sure TV was selected over Sinoti for the RWC, given that one is Samoan and the other is Tongan!

[formerly known as Sam]

I was also delighted to see Burns prove me wrong and control the game with aplomb. The fans singing his name as he came off the field was a fine indication of just how well he played. More of the same and Eddie might want to have a look at him his summer.

Concerns remain over he front row and Harry though. Not good to see us give penalties away like that. It's a conundrum given that his darts were spot on, his work round the park superb and at the maul defence he was a nightmare for Stade. Surely a future open side of great ability though Cockers was in the Merc talking him up as a hooker. Nice to see our reserve front row stuff the Stade replacements in the second half scrum towards the end of the game.

[LondonTiger]

At the start of the season Betham was electric ball in hand but never looked for the pass to the wingers, unsurprisingly for a new player he seemed to not be on the same wavelength as his team-mates. During the winter months he was either on the wing or the bench as he settled into the team and now the hard grounds are back he looks a much better centre than he did. Of course the mere presence of Manu buys time and space for other guys. We are more likely to see Betham on the wing next season, but I expect there will be a lot of shuffling around.

As to TV - perhaps even the most diehard of Sinotti fans can start to see the merits of the new Tiger and why he was selected for RWC instead.

I'm not sure TV was selected over Sinoti for the RWC, given that one is Samoan and the other is Tongan!

Pfft all the same difference

Blame euphoria ans senility please, and let us move on.

[LondonTiger]

I thought Marcos was struggling a little with what the ref wanted, Sam. Once he started to go really low and keep his elbow up, Slimani and Stade started to struggle I thought.

I agree too about the chanting of Freddies name. The crowd have taken a while to warm to him, but he may be winning all us grumps over. Mind there was even more singing of "Come on Vardy lets go party" (to the tune of Barbie girl) around me

[formerly known as Sam]

Slimani seemed to be driving I'm a bit and Marcos was struggling to keep his bind up. Something to work on before Saints this weekend.

Given recent performances and then both results on Sunday there was cause for singing. That's the Burns performance we wanted to see now he needs to back it up. Any news on Slater and Harrison?

[Gooseberry]

Burns at ten concerns me, he doesn't control field position well enough and we often end up trying to play to much rugby in our own half. Otherwise it's a good team.

You were right, Tigers did lose the territory battle.

[formerly known as Sam]

Burns at ten concerns me, he doesn't control field position well enough and we often end up trying to play to much rugby in our own half. Otherwise it's a good team.

You were right, Tigers did lose the territory battle.

There's losing the territory battle and then there's allowing a team to dominate where the game is played. At Dale Cips dictated where the game was played. Stade had territory but we were able to move the ball up and in to their half and come away with points on most visits. I was happy overall though if Austin could avoid giving Youngs anymore kicking advise that would be helpful.

The backrow helped win that game. Two opensides that can link and carry in attack but tackle and disrupt in defence is a huge advantage and one we should be using in every game next season. Thacker, Owen and Evans to be rotated into the ram alongside one of the experienced options and then we can go horses for courses with one of Fonua, Fitz, Croft or Williams in the other spot. Fonua as an impact option from the base I do like and if Fitz or Williams are at 6 we can always double up the backrow reserves on the bench which can be a real advantage.

[lostinwales]

Can I also say what a joy it is to see Tait having so much influence also? couple of drops and a too long kick aside he seems to add a great deal with good decision making and being (generally) so reliable

[LondonTiger]

The kick was unlucky I felt, and the first drop unfortunate (less said about the secon dteh better). However once he sorted his fitness issues he has been magnificent. Not sure how long he is contracted for, but I do hope that wherever he goes for his retirement contract he enjoys life. He has been so unlucky with injuries and is such a pleasant and erudite young man.

[king_carlos]

I thought Marcos was struggling a little with what the ref wanted, Sam. Once he started to go really low and keep his elbow up, Slimani and Stade started to struggle I thought.

I've tried not to bash wee 'arry too much about the scrum, despite thinking his best position will be 7, as I've often moaned about the dying skill of hookers striking for 'route one' ball. However I did think that Marcos struggling was a knock on affect of Thacker being unable to deal with the pressure from Slimani.

If the ref forces props to stay square then Thacker has been OK as our props are generally strong enough to deal with their counterparts one on one, that combined with our big second rows behind them gives Harry time to get a clean strike in.

When a TH is allowed to bore in we start getting issues though as he isn't strong enough on the shove to hold of the pressure. In a situation like Sundays but with OTY hooker then Youngs would usually be able to deal with that pressure which allows Marcos to go through the opposition TH the second they bore in.

Personally I thought that Thacker being under a lot of pressure just left Marcos with too much to do.

[formerly known as Sam]

Heard a couple of things. Firstly Morris only found out he was leaving Tigers two weeks before the announcement. As far as he was concerned there was another year to run on his contract but Tigers activated a clause to cancel the agreement early.

Secondly the boys celebrated after the Stade win in style. I know the gardener for a member of the first team who didn't manage to wake until 1pm on the Monday to come down and say hello to the people working in his garden (they'd been there all morning). He did offer to make them all bacon sandwiches for lunch though which went down well.

[LondonTiger]

JDV confirmed as leaving.

[formerly known as Sam]

Unsurprising it's not worked for him, retirement or Japan for a pension top up is probably best. When he played he looked alright but so many years of top level rugby has taken it's toll on his body. We may well need to conserve cap space as well.

[bluestonevedder]

JDV must have done pretty well out of the contract on a salary-per-minute-played basis.

A real shame it doesn't work out for him and Tigers, but injuries can't be prevented.

[broadlandboy]

According to Cockers he wasn't on a great wage & the players reckoned he brought alot off the pitch. The value isn't always brought on the pitch.

[formerly known as Sam]

I don't doubt for a second he was tremendous at Oval Park and I really liked his attitude when he played, he certainly got stuck in and put himself about. Just a shame he's not a few years younger or more precisely a few injuries lighter. He could have been a real fan favourite.

[king_carlos]

It's a shame we haven't seen more of JDV, I thought he looked good in his one start! If as said he wasn't on much then his influence off the park on young/inexperienced centres and a potential influence in signing JPP is at least something from the investment though.

Clearing room in the cap could have something in it. A few people are muttering rumours that we have another 'bigish' signing coming in the back three - separate to the Agulla rumours. With Morris being released with a year left (despite being a very popular squad member with players and fans) plus little news of replacements for a few departures there would be cap room for it.

[formerly known as Sam]

Didn't JDV start against LI and Quins?

I would imagine we're increasing space for additional signings. Pennell for fullback would be nice. Failing that another front row option.

[Welly]

Pennell won't move now no way.

[nathan]

First allocation of tickets now sold out for the semi final, tigers have requested more. Hopefully there should be a big crowd

[king_carlos]

Pennell won't leave Worcs now they have stayed up. I'd be delighted to get him because he's a fantastic full back who should be in the England squad IMO. He clearly wants to stick with his home town club, good on him for it too! Ben Howard is offering an interesting alternative to him there as well so he now has a bit of competition and a chance to get rotated. Probably a much welcome relief after carrying Worcs through a few campaigns with no break.

The whispers I've heard are just a big name that people will be pleased about but would take up a fair bit of cap - hence guys leaving without replacements yet. There is also the cap increase of course and the space from Manu presumably moving out of the cap into a marquee spot.

Only names I've heard are lingering rumours about Dagg, which won't happen as he's re-signed with the NZRU. A couple of guys also put the rumour of a big name and an Argentinian winger together and got to Santiago Cordero. That's just a pipe dream though as he won't be leaving the Jaguares at 22 years old, following his fantastic RWC performances.

It could ALL just be hot air of course but with 6 back three players gone and only two coming in so far it would make sense if cap room was being cleared for someone.

[formerly known as Sam]

We've had too many back three players on our books though. We just don't need to retain that many. It's one of the few positions where it's relatively easy to get someone to cover or to draft in an academy player at AP level.

I can't see Cordero joining, in the unlikely event of him turning his back on international rugby there would be half of Europe offering him a deal. He's got stardust in this feet.

A good wet weather fullback who's a weapon under the high ball and comes with a kicking game as well as some pace and skill would be ideal. Sort of like Morris... that would round out our options at 15 nicely.

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